PDA

View Full Version : Difference between Zwilling Four Star and Four Star II? (Buying advice)



banana joe
01-08-2013, 04:57 PM
Hello everyone! I'm about to buy my first knife set!!! I found two very good offers for a block set, I need help to decide:

-Zwilling Four Star 10 pieces block, 258 (original price 459): 4" pairing knife, 2 3/4" parer/boner knife, 5" serrated utility knife, 8" carving knife, 8" chef knife, 7" carving fork, 8" bread knife, 10" steel, 8" kitchen shears, wood block

-Zwilling Four Star II 8 pieces block, 219 (original price 369): 4" pairing knife, 5" serrated utility knife, 6" sandwich knife, 8" chef knife, 8" bread knife, 9" steel (lower quality), 8" kitchen shears (lower quality), wood block

If the series was exactly the same there's no doubt the 10 pieces block would be the best offer. My indecision comes from the fact that I don't know what difference is there between the Four Star series and the updated Four Star II. From what I read on the internet the only difference is the steel capsule at the end of the handle, which is supposed to improve weight and balance. If that's the only difference I think the 10 pieces set is still the best choice... Or not? Are there any more differences? Which set do you suggest (between these two, I'm on a budget and where I live these are the only good offers)?

Thank you for your feedback!

Crothcipt
01-08-2013, 05:09 PM
is your heart set on Zwilling? There is better options out there if you will look at other makers, and not at a set. Most of the time there is only 2-3 knives used out of them.

banana joe
01-08-2013, 05:23 PM
is your heart set on Zwilling? There is better options out there if you will look at other makers, and not at a set. Most of the time there is only 2-3 knives used out of them.

Not necessarily, but I'm on a budget and these two are the best offers I found, and I would be using all the knives from the sets. I know there are better makers/knives, but these series should be quite good, and would give me more bang for the buck (price/quality+number of knives).
What do you suggest? Wusthof? Shun? I'm new at this...

Zwiefel
01-08-2013, 05:23 PM
Welcome to the forum!

:plus1:
is your heart set on Zwilling? There is better options out there if you will look at other makers, and not at a set. Most of the time there is only 2-3 knives used out of them.

banana joe
01-08-2013, 08:06 PM
Welcome to the forum!

:plus1:

Thank you! Are Zwilling knives actually that bad? I read good reviews on them. What brands and lines do you suggest? I was looking into this two sets because I'm on a budget, and these seem to have a good price-quality ratio. I know they're not top notch, but they're still very good knives (or at least I thought so) and almost at half price. I would get an entire set at the price of one Shun and since I like changing knives while I'm cooking I know I would use them. I'm definitely gonna buy something better in the future, but wouldn't one of these sets be a good start?

Benuser
01-08-2013, 08:27 PM
You may do almost everything with a gyuto and a peeler. Some people want a bread knife as well. If you often have specific, specialised tasks, you may consider other, more specialised knives, e.g. a boning knife.
A set of some $200 to 250 will give you a lot of steel for your money but poor performance. Have an inexpensive Japanese chef knife, two whetsones and a peeler and you're much better off.
And learn sharpening.
The Zwilling are soft, too thick, too heavy and too expensive. And the profile is ... inadequate.

El Pescador
01-08-2013, 08:30 PM
If you are considering a set of soft metal knives, I'd look at Mundial. Why pay for the german hype?

Crothcipt
01-08-2013, 08:32 PM
the problem you will find is that your knives will be dull in no time. Also they will be thick. As in the case with most German style knives. As far as needing a set well out of all those knives you only need 2. A good pairing knife will take care of a bread knife and a parer. Even then you can use a chef knife for that usually.

I would recommend filling out this.
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/2058-Which-knife-should-you-buy

also welcome. Most company's that are big will have cheaper ways of doing production and giving you not as good of a knife you will want.

What country are you located also so others will also chime in to what they have found.

ThEoRy
01-08-2013, 09:04 PM
1st, don't buy a set.

2nd, what exactly is your budget? I think you may be surprised at what you can afford.

3rd, buy Japanese, and not Shun. They are way overpriced for their performance.

Zwiefel
01-08-2013, 09:54 PM
Thank you! Are Zwilling knives actually that bad?

They aren't bad...they are tanks though. They are designed for people who don't actually care about performance or proper care for cutlery. If that describes you, then they are the knives for you. If not, keep reading :)

There are MUCH better performers for the same $$. Provided you take some time to understand what they are, I think you can get a lot of joy out of them. I'll leave it to the vastly more knowledgable folks on the forum to make specific recommendations...do please fill out the form that Crothcipt suggested:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/2058-Which-knife-should-you-buy

Several people will provide suggestions based on the parameters you set.

Also, I can't recommend the YouTube Channel for Japanese Knife Imports enough...they cover a lot of the inventory that JKI carries, as well as sharpening techniques, knife care, etc. Even if you select something from another vendor, Jon's way of presenting his inventory will help you to understand what to look for and how to look for it.

http://www.youtube.com/feed/UCpgJbCAVxzDHKaKYeuGYyOA

Hope this helps!

The hekler
01-08-2013, 11:24 PM
You won't find much love for knife sets on this forum, most of us here are a bit fanatical about having wickedly sharp knives that offer absolute performance. Not a strong suit for German style knives. There nothing wrong about German knives but they are designed for different use then what most is us here seek. Most of the knives talked about here are Japanese or at least Japanese style which offers a harder, higher quality steel that enables a knife to be thinner and have a much more acute edge which leads to better cutting performance. German steel tends to be softer, and the knives themselves are thicker not to mention have different profiles, this means they quickly dull although they are easier to sharpen and with a honing steel the edge can be brought back easier then a Japanese style knife in between sharpening. The reason you won't find much love for sets is that when you buy one you will notice you are using the same 2-3 knives all of the time and wondering why you bought the other 7. Of you post what you cook, how often what your priorities are I'm sure others will be able to direct your search towards other knives that will probably serve you better.

banana joe
01-12-2013, 01:09 PM
I'm happy to see I've come to the right place! You guys are really serious about your cutlery! You all seem to agree japanese is the way to go, I knew their knives were sharper, but I also knew that they're more difficult to sharpen... that's why, being a novice and having never sharpened anything, I was looking into german knives (and the almost half price set looked like a good deal), but sooner or later I will have to learn how to use a stone, so why wait?! So here it is:

What type of knife(s) do you think you want? Of course a chef knife or a santoku for most of the work, a pairing knife, maybe a serrated utility knife for things like cherry tomatoes and citrus fruit and a bread knife. I may also need a boning knife and a carving knife.

Why is it being purchased? What, if anything, are you replacing? It's being purchased because I love cooking but never had a good knife to work with.

What do you like and dislike about these qualities of your knives already? Well, everything, they're really ****** knives!
Aesthetics-
Edge Quality/Retention-
Ease of Use-
Comfort-

What grip do you use? I use the pinch grip for most work.

What kind of cutting motion do you use? Circular motion, slicing, chopping, depends what I'm doing.

Where do you store them? I would have to buy a magnetic bar or a wood block.

Have you ever oiled a handle? No

What kind of cutting board(s) do you use? Bamboo mostly, wood and plastic.

For edge maintenance, do you use a strop, honing rod, pull through/other, or nothing? Never sharpened anything, but I'm willing to learn!

Have they ever been sharpened? No

What is your budget? Around 250 to start.

What do you cook and how often? Mostly italian food, but I like to experiment a lot of dishes from all over the world. I cook every day.

Special requests(Country of origin/type of wood/etc)? Only request is that they're obtainable in Italy.

Thank you very much for your suggestions, my cutlery Senseis!

ggg16902002
01-12-2013, 02:06 PM
For the last 12 years Zwilling knives are mainly manufactured in China or by Arcos in Spain. Only the management office is in Germany.

For the same $$ you can purchase Wusthof Dreizack knives that are still made in Germany.

Benuser
01-12-2013, 02:11 PM
For the last 12 years Zwilling knives are mainly manufactured in China or by Arcos in Spain. Only the management office is in Germany.

For the same $$ you can purchase Wusthof Dreizack knives that are still made in Germany.
J.A. Henckels International are made in Spain or China.
Zwilling are still made in Solingen, Germany.

NO ChoP!
01-12-2013, 02:48 PM
If you like henckels, check out miyabis at WS or SLT. You can get 15% discount if your in the industry, and they often run sales....

labor of love
01-12-2013, 04:24 PM
If you like henckels, check out miyabis at WS or SLT. You can get 15% discount if your in the industry, and they often run sales....

+1
i think miyabis would be a good place to start. i much prefer them to shun classics. they have a newer line called "artisan" which seems to be a fairly good deal for sg2 steel. i would steer clear of their fusion line though,the ones i sharpened were way thick behind the edge. the artisan line has a better grind.

Amon-Rukh
01-12-2013, 05:44 PM
As far as Miyabis go, I started off with the fusion as my first Japanese knife and liked it quite a bit. It's much nicer than the kaizen line in my opinion. My wife recently got an artisan Gyuto as her first J knife and it does indeed have better geometry than and of the other lines. It was heavily discounted when she got it, though I'm not sure if the sale is still going on.

Amon-Rukh
01-12-2013, 05:49 PM
As an aside on the topic of 4-stars, the older design is better if you use a pinch grip. The 4-starII knives have that dumb endcap which pointlessly moves the balance point back. A classic case of design aimed at people who don't take their knifework seriously.