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jimbob
01-11-2013, 05:46 AM
My glorious mother in law wants to buy me another knife for my 30th. She was going to get me the santuko hattori fh, but as i have three from that line already and no desire for a santuko i now have about 220 to spend on whatever. I dont really need a certain knife anymore (have parer, petty, gyuto, bread knife and cleaver), so might go the experimental route. Am looking at the moritaka 270 kiritsuke. A. I would like to try carbon B. would like to try 270 length C. Want to try wa handle. It looks cool too.... I cut harder veges such as pumpkin alot and liked the idea of this knife being cleavery at heel with a fine tip.
So has anyone used one of these and has opinions on its performance?
Am open to other knife options too..
One more thing, has anyone ordered from rakuten. At $90 cheaper than you know where was wondering if i was missing something.

jimbob
01-11-2013, 06:19 AM
Also,what is the differences between aogami super compared to the aogami #2

franzb69
01-11-2013, 06:29 AM
aogami super can be taken to higher hardness than aogami #2, so that means keener edge and a longer lasting edge, which also makes it chippy if you're not careful. but if you sharpen to an angle that balances both keenness and edge retention would give you the best of both worlds.

that's all i know for the most part about it.

franzb69
01-11-2013, 06:45 AM
i mean low enough angle

pitonboy
01-11-2013, 06:48 AM
Rakuten is fine, though you might get some reply mails in Japanese that you can't read that will make you think there is a problem. It is worth the discount

franzb69
01-11-2013, 07:03 AM
oh and if you think you have enough, wait til you find more and more excuses to get more. =D

ecchef
01-11-2013, 07:10 AM
Beware the Moritaka hole!
Moritaka has a reputation for being a little lax in the quality control dept. Several members here (including myself) own knives with overgrinds. For your own peace of mind, make sure up front that they have a return policy that would cover any manufacturing defects.

jimbob
01-11-2013, 07:12 AM
Yes i found that thread. Rakuten seems to have a manafacturers defect return policy so all good.

franzb69
01-11-2013, 07:35 AM
i forgot that you can actually purchase directly from moritaka. just google moritaka hamono. might even be cheaper to get from them. you can even have it custom made to your specifications for a fee, of course.

=D

Squilliam
01-11-2013, 09:02 AM
aogami super can be taken to higher hardness than aogami #2, so that means keener edge and a longer lasting edge, which also makes it chippy if you're not careful. but if you sharpen to an angle that balances both keenness and edge retention would give you the best of both worlds.

that's all i know for the most part about it.

I don't know about potential hardness, but it will form more hard carbides, giving it greater edge retention, against wear, but also less edge stability, which could encourage chipping. IMO it should hold an 80% edge for longer, but it may loose the 'right off the stone' edge faster than more simple steels like the aogami / shirogami.

playford
01-11-2013, 09:28 AM
I'd want to be buying direct to be honest, if theres issues, least that way you can go straight back to them.

franzb69
01-11-2013, 10:47 AM
i stand corrected yet again =D

rdm_magic
01-11-2013, 11:28 AM
If you're worried about QC issues wouldn't you actually be better buying from a secondary retailer who has a good return/check before shipping policy IE. Jon/Mark?

I'd rather let them fight it out with Moritaka directly than me.

Lefty
01-11-2013, 11:45 AM
The Moritaka knives I've seen and used impressed me. But yeah, that issue is there.

mhlee
01-11-2013, 11:47 AM
If you're worried about QC issues wouldn't you actually be better buying from a secondary retailer who has a good return/check before shipping policy IE. Jon/Mark?

Jon does not sell Moritaka. If you're looking for reasonably priced, carbon, kurouchi, wa-handled knives that Jon does sell, take a look at his Zakuri knives.

franzb69
01-11-2013, 12:01 PM
Jon does not sell Moritaka. If you're looking for reasonably priced, carbon, kurouchi, wa-handled knives that Jon does sell, take a look at his Zakuri knives.

with a lot better quality checking =D

El Pescador
01-11-2013, 12:01 PM
If you're worried about QC issues wouldn't you actually be better buying from a secondary retailer who has a good return/check before shipping policy IE. Jon/Mark?

I'd rather let them fight it out with Moritaka directly than me.

+1. Moritaka's customer service/return policy is horrible. You can look at threads on the old board about it.

mpukas
01-11-2013, 12:33 PM
I have the Moritaka 270 kiri-gyuto. I never use it any longer. I don't think mine has an overgrind issue, but the edge is dead flat, and I get accordianing because there are two high spots which create a large area in between that doesn't contact the board. I've tried several times to correct it, but cant' seem to get it just right so it cuts well. This isn't necessarily a Moritaka problem, as any knife that is supposed to be dead flat that isn't is going to have the same issue. Besides that, a knife that is that dead flat for such a large area is difficult to use.

I have other issues with the knife as well - the cladding is terribly reactive and rusts very easily. The kuro-uchi finish is not very durable and wears off easily, exposing more of the reactive cladding. The cladding won't take a patina and it stinks when I cut onions, cabbage, etc. I've found other knives that perform much better than the kiri-gyuto. The steel is very good though.

I'm not saying don't get one, but be aware of the issues you may encounter. If you want to try a Moritaka with a flatter profile, maybe consider the KS clone. Mark is sold out of them ATM, but he usually has them in stock.

playford
01-11-2013, 01:24 PM
what about the stainless moritaka's? noticed those on ratuken?

EdipisReks
01-11-2013, 01:48 PM
I have the Moritaka 270 kiri-gyuto. I never use it any longer. I don't think mine has an overgrind issue, but the edge is dead flat, and I get accordianing because there are two high spots which create a large area in between that doesn't contact the board. I've tried several times to correct it, but cant' seem to get it just right so it cuts well. This isn't necessarily a Moritaka problem, as any knife that is supposed to be dead flat that isn't is going to have the same issue. Besides that, a knife that is that dead flat for such a large area is difficult to use.

I have other issues with the knife as well - the cladding is terribly reactive and rusts very easily. The kuro-uchi finish is not very durable and wears off easily, exposing more of the reactive cladding. The cladding won't take a patina and it stinks when I cut onions, cabbage, etc. I've found other knives that perform much better than the kiri-gyuto. The steel is very good though.

I'm not saying don't get one, but be aware of the issues you may encounter. If you want to try a Moritaka with a flatter profile, maybe consider the KS clone. Mark is sold out of them ATM, but he usually has them in stock.

the holes in the edge are likely caused by the overgrind issue.

chinacats
01-11-2013, 03:10 PM
Too many good knives out there to buy a Moritaka--from anyone...

schanop
01-11-2013, 03:19 PM
Hey jimbob, for your A, B, C requirements, budget, and what you have already had, I would steer you to this Ashi Hamono Ginga carbon sujihiki 270mm:

http://www.jshoppers.com/shohin.asp?shocd=W00008R1&PageNo=1&bunrui1=9&bunrui2=10&bunrui3=10

Listing is slightly wrong I think because there is a full stainless version listed here:

http://www.jshoppers.com/shohin.asp?shocd=W00007R1&PageNo=1&bunrui1=9&bunrui2=10&bunrui3=10

labor of love
01-11-2013, 04:15 PM
Too many good knives out there to buy a Moritaka--from anyone...

i used to defend moritaka, but not anymore. especially now that their gyutos and kiritukes are well over $200. keep looking, you'll find something better for the same price. zakuri knives for instance, are alot nicer and basically the same steel options with much better kurouchi finish.

jimbob
01-11-2013, 04:20 PM
Thanks for everyones help! I might hold off a bit as i won a mac ultimate knife last night and am going to see if i want it, otherwise the budget is increased! Which means many more hours researching knives, damn.:wink:

rdm_magic
01-11-2013, 07:41 PM
Jon does not sell Moritaka. If you're looking for reasonably priced, carbon, kurouchi, wa-handled knives that Jon does sell, take a look at his Zakuri knives.

I know, I was just using him as an example of a good retailer with a good returns policy

jimbob
01-11-2013, 08:41 PM
Has anyone seen a takeda kiritsuke 270mm?

echerub
01-11-2013, 11:47 PM
Yep. Pretty big blade because of the taller profile height.

mhlee
01-12-2013, 12:54 AM
I know, I was just using him as an example of a good retailer with a good returns policy

:thumbsup:

mhenry
01-12-2013, 12:40 PM
I have one



Has anyone seen a takeda kiritsuke 270mm?

jimbob
01-12-2013, 05:24 PM
I havent ever heard a bad takeda review so am leaning that way. Have emailed direct to see prices and customisation level.(how much flat section, blade height)

franzb69
01-13-2013, 12:05 AM
sometimes they take a while to reply back. i guess they can get busy or just they have a hard time translating. lol.

mhenry
01-13-2013, 09:11 AM
It can take up to a week to get back with you. It's kind of a slow process, but once you do get your order in he will have it done pretty quick.

Mats
01-13-2013, 02:18 PM
I love my Moritaka KS 250mm gyuto. I have to admit the fit and finish is lagging compared to my Konos but that AS steel gets ultra sharp and holds the edge very well. The choil and spine are sharper than most would want but you'll get used to it and you won't notice it after much use. It sharpens easier than expected to a point where it'll just dig in to your finger with the slightest of taps. You have to watch for chipping I suppose since it's hardened to 64-65 rockwell. No complaints here and the KS has that killer profile.

EdipisReks
01-13-2013, 06:12 PM
I havent ever heard a bad takeda review so am leaning that way. Have emailed direct to see prices and customisation level.(how much flat section, blade height)

i've owned three Takedas, and currently own two. the only problem with Takeda, really, is that there isn't a lot of QC. every knife is quite different. every once in a while, a bad one comes out and is sold (my first was such a one). i wouldn't buy a Takeda unless you are good at sharpening, as these knives will need constant thinning to stay good cutters (all knives are like this, of course, but the Takeda shape is different than most, and really need to be thinned continuously).

NO ChoP!
01-15-2013, 10:05 AM
Takeda is a crap shoot. We had three 240 gyutos in the kitchen. All three were completely different. One was like a giant santoku, with a sheeps foot tip, and completely black KU. One was a mm thicker at the heel. Two had holes along the edge. One had a crocked spine, that never straightened properly....

I'd suggest buying second hand, where you can see exactly what your getting, or communicating thoroughly with your retailer...

panda
12-30-2013, 11:38 PM
are there any of you that secretly have moritaka gyuto and ENJOY using but are embarrassed to post about it due to the collective negative following here? just picked one up myself (petty) and think it's a hell of a knife!

JHunter
12-31-2013, 12:10 AM
My limited set has a Moritaka and I love it. Sharpened a few times to crazy sharp and no issues thus far.

franzb69
12-31-2013, 12:30 AM
I love blue steel in any shape or form. But I just find that I don't enjoy using my moritaka gyuto so much. Probably the profile. My gyuto feels more like a sujihiki than a gyuto. Just way too flat for my cutting style. I don't rock chop at all, but I find that a slightly more curved shape is more beneficial for me.

Crothcipt
12-31-2013, 01:25 AM
Panda, there are quite a few that love their Moritaka's. That is why so many are so pissed about how these have turned out.

ecchef
12-31-2013, 06:25 AM
Gotta agree with Chris & Jacob's points about the Takedas. I have a love / hate relationship with mine.

I have three Moritakas; one with a big hole, one with a some weld pitting at the tang joint, and one just right! Still, They get a lot of use. Get good one and you'll not regret it.

jaybett
12-31-2013, 03:46 PM
I've got two cleavers and a Kiritsuke style gyuto. They are easy to sharpen, take a nice edge, and hold it for a long time. Plus they cut very well. It's easy to see why people like them so much.

With all the reported issues, I don't know if I would buy them again. At the time they were relatively inexpensive, compared to Takeda. It would be difficult to recommend them, since there are so many other options that don't have the issues.

Jay