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View Full Version : Torn between Sakai Yusuke KS clone and Konosuke Funayuki/Gyuto



perneto
01-13-2013, 05:35 AM
Hi all,

I've seen the excited reviews of the new Sakai Yusuke KS-profiled 240 gyuto here, and was planning to order one soon, but I just noticed that the Konosuke HD 240 Funayuki/Gyuto is about the same price and currently in stock.
I understand they're very different knives: the Konosuke's a laser, the Yusuke is thicker and stiffer with a reportedly very nice convex grind.
Could you help me go over the advatages of each to help me decide?

Has anyone tried both (or the regular Konosuke HD), and could describe the difference in cutting performance and feel?

I expect the Konosuke would have slightly better edge retention, at the cost of being semi-stainless, and that both steels would get similarly sharp. Fit and finish should be similar also.
I think I'd enjoy both blade shapes very much - long flat spot and pointy tip. I guess the Yusuke is marginally better at rocking because of the higher tip.

franzb69
01-13-2013, 05:48 AM
well sakai yusuke 240 is out of stock on ****. you'll have to wait til there's stock.

ChiliPepper
01-13-2013, 06:01 AM
Well ASAIK both Yusuke and Kono are in the "laser" family and there shouldn't be a lot of difference in the thickness

Timthebeaver
01-13-2013, 06:14 AM
Well ASAIK both Yusuke and Kono are in the "laser" family and there shouldn't be a lot of difference in the thickness

The Yusuke KS clone was a special order, 2.8 mm thick at the heel instead of the standard 2.2, and about 30 grams heavier at ~170g

wenus2
01-13-2013, 06:57 AM
Perneto, I think you highlighted the main differences already and you really know about all you can without handling them. At this point id say you just need to decide what you're in for.

Personally I'd go for the Yusuke, but then I (have) own/ed several Konosuke knives already.

jimbob
01-13-2013, 07:53 AM
Is there anywhere else to buy konosuke other than ....? Like direct from maker? A few other brands this can be done for a considerable price drop...

franzb69
01-13-2013, 08:11 AM
tosho knife arts sells them but they're in canada.

stevenStefano
01-13-2013, 08:38 AM
If you can wait until they're in stock, I'd get the Sakai Yusuke. I think the fit and finish should be better on it, and I think the grind on the Yusukes should be better also

Lefty
01-13-2013, 10:19 AM
I've been reading the overall quality and price to performance ratio is better on Sakai Yusuke than Konosuke, now. Realistically, being made where they are, I'd say they are likely made in the same place (or 3 of 4 components/processes), and then finish assembled at a different place. I have no way of knowing for sure, but that's my feeling.

I "had" a Kono for a little while and loved it. I now have a Masamoto KS and LOVE it! The profile is perfect, the look is perfectly simple...if the SY is close, you'll love it too. Go with the one that excites you more, when you look at it; I honestly don't think you'll regret either purchase.

Chefdog
01-13-2013, 10:43 AM
If you haven't seen it yet, there's a good bit of info in a thread in the review section. Here's a post by member Aphex comparing the KS clone to a Suisin Honyaki wa-gyuto, which should be very similar to the Kono:
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/7825-Gisele-(wanring-long-winded-and-pic-heavy)?p=163575&viewfull=1#post163575

perneto
01-13-2013, 10:57 AM
Ah, thanks, I didn't notice Aphex's update comparing it to a Suisin. All right, back to waiting for Bluewayjapan to have the Yusuke in stock again (I did place a pre-order with Keiichi already).

(franzb69, I guess you don't know the "bluewayjapan" ebay store? That's where people have been getting Yusuke knives before that site started stocking them recently. They're still cheaper there, much cheaper if you don't live in the US as that's a Japanese store.)

Mike Davis
01-13-2013, 11:10 AM
I have had both, still have to kono hd. Both are very similar, the sakai yusuki is ss, while the kono is a semi ss. Both get real sharp, both retain edges well, and the fit and finish is not much different. I think i would give a slight advantage to the sakai as far as overall sharpness is concerned, but both get scary sh.arp. And the only reason i do not have the sakai is that i gave it away to a friend

NO ChoP!
01-13-2013, 11:34 AM
I've owned several of each. The Yusuke has better f&f. The handle is tapered, and smooth. The grind is perfect, and the blade finish is more fine.

For some dumb reason, they don't etched the kanji, which drives me nuts.

I think Konosuke HD steel edges out anything Yusuke uses.

It's a toss up, but if Yusuke is also mimicking the grind, and not just the profile, I'd go with that.

labor of love
01-13-2013, 02:23 PM
id go with sakai also, the grind on that knife is supposed to be awesome and konos run short. a 232mm is just too short for me. i owned the kono funi and the masamoto ks, i would much prefer the sakai or the kono over the masamoto ks.

franzb69
01-14-2013, 01:06 AM
I guess you don't know the "bluewayjapan" ebay store?

actually i do, but things complicating my purchasing ability direct from japan is forcing me to buy from american based online stores. i don't have to pay "fictional" overly high customs taxes so i don't have to bribe customs officers. it ends up cheaper for me to get from them.

and i didn't mention blueway coz they too don't have them in stock.

my bad.


i quite like sakai if i had the choice.

mpukas
01-14-2013, 06:45 PM
One of the main differences is the Yusuke is thicker at the spine, which allows a greater convex edge and stiffness overall.

I've never used a Kono, so I can't comment of F&F or steel comparisons. You can't go wrong with either, but I'd get a Yusuke. Keiichi did a lot of work w/ Yusuke to get this knife dialed in. It's worth the wait.

DWells
01-15-2013, 02:03 AM
I sent Keiichi a message through ebay about a few deba and the KS clone a few days ago. He has yet to respond, and his customer service is normally superhuman, does he have an e-mail that might present a better way to reach him?

mpukas
01-15-2013, 12:14 PM
I suggesst be patient with him. He's extremely busy, and there's a big time difference. You can always send him a follow up e-mail if you don't hear from him in a couple of days.

DWells
01-15-2013, 04:37 PM
I wasn't suggesting that I was losing patience, more just wondering what form of communication everyone else uses to get in touch with him. The format of the ebay message seems inherently informal and not very user friendly for business transactions. I was hoping someone had a direct e-mail address.

mpukas
01-15-2013, 07:01 PM
I understand where you're coming from. eBay is the best way, informal as it seems.

dannynyc
05-27-2013, 03:01 PM
Just to build on this thread, does anyone have both the sakai yusuke in the flat profile AND the Konosuke funayuki and, if so, would you be willing to post a side-by-side photo so we can compare the profiles? I've had the Kono for a couple of weeks now and I'm curious to see if the ks profile has a large flat spot.

dannynyc
05-27-2013, 06:01 PM
Just to build on this thread, does anyone have both the sakai yusuke in the flat profile AND the Konosuke funayuki and, if so, would you be willing to post a side-by-side photo so we can compare the profiles? I've had the Kono for a couple of weeks now and I'm curious to see if the ks profile has a large flat spot.

Obviously if anyone has the Kono funayuki and a masamoto ks, that would be just as helpful. Thanks.

chinacats
05-27-2013, 10:09 PM
The KS and the Sakai yusuke in flat profile don't appear to be that close to me though I have a hard time visually distinguishing. Side by side comparison by mpukas here (http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/11363-Masamoto-KS-270mm-gyuto/page3) of the KS and Sakai.

dannynyc
05-27-2013, 10:19 PM
I see what you mean though because the knives in the photo are different lengths (and especially since the SY's run short and the masamotos long), it's extra hard to tell.

Anyway if anyone can do a side to side on either next to the Kono, it would be much appreciated!

labor of love
05-27-2013, 10:34 PM
i think the masamoto in that picture may have a slightly higher tip. the yusuke seems less flat towards the tip.

chinacats
05-27-2013, 10:36 PM
i think the masamoto in that picture may have a slightly higher tip. the yusuke seems less flat towards the tip.

+1, even more important is the geometry difference which seems quite noticeable

labor of love
05-28-2013, 12:52 PM
I prefer the Yusuke, atleast visually. It looks less extreme.

Aphex
06-06-2013, 08:38 AM
Just to add a few words on the subject. I sharpened my stainless Yusuke KS clone for the first time last week, and my god does this thing get sharp. This knife has made me re-evaluate my views on stainless steel as i can quite honestly say that i can't tell the difference this and most of my carbon knives in terms of ultimate sharpness.

For those of you concidering this knife, all i can say is that it's the real deal.

dannynyc
06-06-2013, 08:58 AM
Do you know the exact species of steel used in the stainless? How was it in terms of ease on sharpening compared to a carbon?

Marko Tsourkan
06-06-2013, 09:06 AM
Just to build on this thread, does anyone have both the sakai yusuke in the flat profile AND the Konosuke funayuki and, if so, would you be willing to post a side-by-side photo so we can compare the profiles? I've had the Kono for a couple of weeks now and I'm curious to see if the ks profile has a large flat spot.

Don't assume that it is a clone. Most western style knives produced in Sakai have a similar profile, but not identical. Typically, the flat spot is about 1/3 of the lengh of the blade.

M

chefcomesback
06-06-2013, 09:18 AM
I have a kono 240hh gyuto and I like it a lot. I am lucky I was able to get one before the price increase.Now the prices have gone up %30 percent (roughly $100 per 240 gyuto ) I doubt I would have ordered the same knife. I haven't owned both brands at the same time yet but from the pictures they seem very similar and Sakai Yusuke seems to be the better bang for the buck

Aphex
06-06-2013, 10:16 AM
Do you know the exact species of steel used in the stainless? How was it in terms of ease on sharpening compared to a carbon?

I have no idea what kind of steel it is, and to be honest, i don't really care. I stopped obsessing about steel types long ago.

I terms of sharpening, i would say it needed a couple more passes on the stone to create a burr compared to carbon, the burr is very easy to remove though compared to some stainless steels i've used.

In terms of the profile, while were all calling this the KS clone, it's deffintely no clone. The KS has less width at the heel, is longer on the edge and is more spear like.

dannynyc
06-06-2013, 10:24 AM
Sorry to barrage you with questions aphex, but do you have the "flatter" yusuke or the standard one that's currently available on blueway?

Aphex
06-06-2013, 10:27 AM
I got one of the first flat profile knives made.