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View Full Version : gyuto Misono 180 mm or .....?



blackice
01-13-2013, 05:01 PM
Hi, i would buy a new knife , santoku or a 180mm gyuto. I see a gyuto Misono ux10 230 dollars, but before buy it i want ask you if is a good price and if this is the best knife with this price. Santoku misono is most expensive and 230 dollars is my budget. Thnaks everybody :)

Lefty
01-13-2013, 05:10 PM
I'm a huge Misono fan, and if you're set on Misono, go for the moly for less than half the price. HOWEVER, get something different if you want to spend $230....

blackice
01-13-2013, 05:27 PM
Moly need more maintenance than ux10? maintenance is like carbonext?

labor of love
01-13-2013, 05:38 PM
if you plan on purchasing a gyuto i would get atleast a 210mm. also, i think the ux10 is pretty overpriced fir what it is honestly. i prefer either the swedish carbon or the 440.

Lefty
01-13-2013, 05:42 PM
Nah, the moly is softer, but takes a ridiculous edge and is really thin BTE (all over, actually). Pretty good release too, for a flatter grind.

Benuser
01-13-2013, 05:48 PM
The UX-10 is clearly overpriced. Love them, but at this price point...
Consider the Swedish Carbon if you want to stick with Misono, or see the Hiromoto AS or G3.

blackice
01-13-2013, 05:54 PM
wher i can buy?

labor of love
01-13-2013, 05:57 PM
japanesechefsknife.com carrys all the misono lines, plus koki offers great customer service. you might want to get in touch with him and he could help you with your decision.
also, he carries both hiromoto lines, if youre interested.

Benuser
01-13-2013, 05:58 PM
Very reliable, flat shipping rate: JCK

http://japanesechefsknife.com/products.html

blackice
01-13-2013, 06:03 PM
i have a carbonext 270 mm and i want buy a smaller. what knife do you buy with this budget? misono moly is interesting

labor of love
01-13-2013, 06:15 PM
at $230 budget for a 180-210 gyuto you have alot of options.for example, the gesshin kagero would be a better knife with that budget in my opinion.

Benuser
01-13-2013, 06:16 PM
What other knives do you have? Do you want to go for real carbon? Do you prefer real stainless?

K-Fed
01-13-2013, 10:27 PM
If you like the carbonext and want a smaller gyuto there's nothing wrong with having two of the same in different sizes. I have two tkc's ( similar semi stainless steel ) one measuring in at 210 and the other at 270. One I use on the line every day and the other is one of my prep work horses respectively. If you are dead set on misono I would recommend the Swedish line where even with the relatively recent price hike they are still fantastic knives for the money.

Lefty
01-13-2013, 10:39 PM
Yup, ain't nuthin' wrong with the Swede. Given a choice of the Moly or Swedish Steel, if price didn't matter at all, I'd go wit the Swede. However, I just love the idea of a knife for about $100! And, even though people like to knock Misono, I openly think they're great.

Again, though, if you're spending $230, there are lots of great knives at JKI that I'd consider as well. :)

blackice
01-14-2013, 09:21 AM
i have one 270 mm guyto and one petty 130 mm...My guyto is the first carbonext i ever try and i feel very good. But maybe i prefer try a real stainless. I think i can find a good knife with this budget, but i'm still a little uncertain between carbon or stainless

blackice
01-14-2013, 09:33 AM
my question has always been if misono knives are the best knife with this price or the price is high because they are a famous brand, maybe i can find a knife with no famous brand, but better than misono ux10. i would buy a 20-30 years knife :) ... so recommended moly or Swedish line? what are the difference?

blackice
01-14-2013, 09:36 AM
at $230 budget for a 180-210 gyuto you have alot of options.for example, the gesshin kagero would be a better knife with that budget in my opinion.

i'll never seen this knife, but i there isn't 180 mm or santoku

jgraeff
01-14-2013, 09:38 AM
i have had misono ux10 both santoku and misono, the other lines are decent as well, good knives overall but i agree overpriced for what you get there are a lot of other options out there. But i would definitely go with a gyuto over the santoku, can do so much more plus at 180mm you cant do nearly as much with it.

franzb69
01-14-2013, 09:38 AM
the swedish is semi stainless, takes a better edge and is more expensive than the moly.

is it worth the extra money? i certainly think so! i ordered a misono hankotsu left handed version from mari over at korin and i'm waiting around for it to arrive.

specially if you're gonna buy a knife just every few decades, the extra bit of investment on the blade material is worth it.

but you'll have to care for it a bit more as it can rust, even stainless knives rust, but more so on semi stainless. they're not really carbon steel but around half and half more or less, which is why they're called semi stainless.

Benuser
01-14-2013, 09:41 AM
my question has always been if misono knives are the best knife with this price or the price is high because they are a famous brand, maybe i can find a knife with no famous brand, but better than misono ux10. i would buy a 20-30 years knife :) ... so recommended moly or Swedish line? what are the difference?
the moly is a relatively soft, forgiving stainless; the Swedish carbon an excellent, very pure but quite reactive carbon, by no means semi-stainless!

franzb69
01-14-2013, 09:48 AM
it's not? lol

my bad!

always thought it was semi.

blackice
01-14-2013, 05:14 PM
Yup, ain't nuthin' wrong with the Swede. Given a choice of the Moly or Swedish Steel, if price didn't matter at all, I'd go wit the Swede. However, I just love the idea of a knife for about $100! And, even though people like to knock Misono, I openly think they're great.

Again, though, if you're spending $230, there are lots of great knives at JKI that I'd consider as well. :)

which would you buy?

Lefty
01-14-2013, 05:29 PM
Which child is my favorite.......

TB_London
01-14-2013, 05:52 PM
Just to add another option, a Carter SFGZ is around that if you don't mind the handle....

franzb69
01-15-2013, 12:02 AM
Just to add another option, a Carter SFGZ is around that if you don't mind the handle....

a great choice as well!

blackice
01-15-2013, 03:00 PM
what is better vg 10 or sg2?

Benuser
01-15-2013, 04:35 PM
what is better vg 10 or sg2?
Have no personal experience with SG2. Find it hard to make general statements about any steel, have excellent experience with sharpening VG-10 treated by JCK Kagayaki or Hattori in their FD series. Have seen a lot of very poorly treated by Shun and some others.
In any case I wouldn't advice VG-10 to a novice sharpener.

blackice
01-16-2013, 10:26 AM
what do you think about this? http://japanesechefsknife.com/JCKHattoriForums.html

franzb69
01-16-2013, 10:33 AM
best knife in VG-10 in the market!

Benuser
01-16-2013, 10:42 AM
Excellent knives, no doubt about it. If they weren't as successful as some might have expected, it is because at this price point knife nuts want a blade to match exactly their very personal preferences regarding profile, geometry, weight, width, handle, balance and so on.
If I could afford it I wouldn't hesitate.

franzb69
01-16-2013, 10:52 AM
with what many vg10-haters out there would say, that hattori forum knife is the only line of knives that actually got VG10 done right. some say for that money it might not be worth it because of the type of steel used on the knife. but Hattori are the only guys that know how to do it right, at the very least they have proven themselves to do so. along with the geometry, grind and all of that put together. it is still quite worth the price imho.

not that i've had them or even held them. it's what i've understood from all the praises the knife has gotten in past threads over the years (and i've read many many hours of threads on knives). i mean if you're gonna have a knife in VG10, it might as well be this. and as benuser said, if i could afford it, i wouldn't hesitate. =D

blackice
01-17-2013, 08:39 PM
in this day i see many knife and the choice is between this santoku ...or spend less money with a carbon still
http://japanesechefsknife.com/TenmiJyurakuSeries.html
http://japanesechefsknife.com/SwedenSteelSeries.html

or with my initial budget
http://japanesechefsknife.com/JCKHattoriForums.html
http://japanesechefsknife.com/HCSeries.html

or waiting for a sg-2 santoku (the price is unknown and the site write "coming soon", but i think about 200 dollars)
http://japanesechefsknife.com/RyusenBlazenSeries.html

when i buy ny carbonext a was undecide between it and Tenmi-Jyuraku Series (Aogami Super)
what do you think?

Benuser
01-17-2013, 09:16 PM
What other knives do you have, and how do you sharpen them?

Sambal
01-18-2013, 06:38 AM
Not trying to hijack the thread but might be a factor for the OP to consider as well given his pairing of the Hiromoto TJ and the Misono Swedish santukos: How does the thickness of these two compare? Is the Misono Swedish a much "better" and usable knife out of the box?

Benuser
01-18-2013, 08:50 AM
In addition only to Chefdog who placed the supposed thickness into perspective:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/10255-Hiromoto-AS-Thickness-question?p=173313#post173313

I have the Hiromoto in use since a few years. Never had the Misono Santoku in my hands, but have their 240mm gyuto. Both are excellent performers out of the box, very different though. The Hiromoto is stiff, feels solid, comes with a crazy edge. AS remains toothy, whatever the edge you put on it. The Misono Swedish feels light, has some flex, and a great taper. Comes with a highly polished convexed edge. It never feels as aggressive as the Hiromoto. Both sharpen easily, the Misono even very easily. Because of its taper thinning while sharpening is less imperative with the Misono. The edge retention of the Hiromoto is clearly superior. For best results with the Hiromoto you should start sharpening with a relatively coarse stone in the J400-500 range. You will need it anyway for thinning and clad removal.
Both will perform at their best once the factory edge is gone.
From the pictures I get that the Misono santoku is quite flat. The Hiromoto is more like a short but extra wide gyuto. The Misono Carbon is very reactive. You have to force a patina to stabilize it. This will dull the factory edge somewhat, so expect a touch up to be necessary. With the Hiromoto only a few millimeters of the AS are exposed, and AS is not particularly reactive, and will get a nice patina when in use.

Lefty
01-18-2013, 09:06 AM
I'm biased, and have purposely dodged Hiromoto, for some reason, but the price is hard to argue within even still.

However, I love Misono.... :D I know it's not cool, but oh well!

Benuser
01-18-2013, 09:08 AM
I should add that the Misono F&F is exceptionally good at this price point, and the Hiromoto is OK, if that matters.

Benuser
01-18-2013, 09:15 AM
I'm biased, and have purposely dodged Hiromoto, for some reason, but the price is hard to argue within even still.

However, I love Misono.... :D I know it's not cool, but oh well!
Which remembers me: both are strongly right biased!

franzb69
01-18-2013, 09:23 AM
with jck, you can always have them done for lefties. as i am a lefty. i sharpen lefty biased anyway, if i end up buying used ones, they'll become lefty biased eventually from my sharpening.

as far as i know the grinds are 50/50 but with a sharpening of 70/30 righty biased.

Benuser
01-18-2013, 09:39 AM
as far as i know the grinds are 50/50 but with a sharpening of 70/30 righty biased.

Both have a strongly right biased grinding, whatever the final edge they put on it. Except for the bevel, the left face is completely flat. The right one is clearly convexed. The axis is off centered to the left.
I won't start the discussion about how to adapt right biased blades to lefties, but strongly right biased they are, both.

franzb69
01-18-2013, 09:45 AM
my mistake then. so how come koki says he can have it resharpened for left handed when i asked him via email?

Benuser
01-18-2013, 09:50 AM
He will put a 50/50 edge on it, but's still a strongly right biased blade...

franzb69
01-18-2013, 10:16 AM
i see. understood then. i don't mind this, i have an aritsugu kyoto with similar grind, flat left side, right side slightly convexed, right hand biased. 60/40 or 70/30 as well. doesn't bother me one bit. sharpened it 50/50, works alright with me.

blackice
01-18-2013, 11:36 AM
What other knives do you have, and how do you sharpen them?
i have a gyuto carbonext 270 mm and a stone 4000/1000...carbonext surprised me i feel it very well in my hand and is very easy to sharpen. So i'm undecided beetween a carbon steel or stainless steel...hiromoto blade 190 mm seems more confortable for me, but is just a guess. AO is better than carbonext? Maybe beetwen misono and hiromoto i feel better a blade less flex like hiromoto. Also hattori seems very good but i never try a 170 mm santoku, but try a vg10 steel is interesting. I can't see ryusen but the question for me is if sharpen sg2 will be too difficult for me and i don't know the price

Benuser
01-18-2013, 12:52 PM
All excellent knives, I'm sure. But the Hiromoto offers most value, and is the less expensive one. That would allow you to add a high quality stainless 150mm petty, e.g. from the Misono 440 series, So you won't dull your carbon edges with acidic fruit, for example.

blackice
01-18-2013, 07:36 PM
what do you think about hc series?....your idea looks very good if i buy hiromoto knife 190 mm (114 dollars) would remain money for a petty (misono 440, hattori or ryusen). I understand that beetwen carbonext and aogami you prefer the second, right?

Benuser
01-18-2013, 08:37 PM
AS is an exceptional steel, and Hiromoto offers exceptional value in the present market conditions.
I am strongly biased: a few years ago I've bought both my Hiromoto 190 and Misono 240 for the same price, $100.
Masamoto has always been overpriced and had in these days terrible F&F issues with their Western knives. Some are just in love with their gyuto profile.
The price of the Carbonext is still competitive. But we don't have to discuss its merits as you already have one, and it's much more fun to have different knives with different steels by different makers. Otherwise Carbonext would be a very serious option in its price category.

blackice
01-19-2013, 10:13 AM
thank for your hekp. I think i'll buy hiromoyo AO. Later i'll buy jck hattori (petty 150 mm or Sujihiki) i think that i knfe so beauty like hiromoto is better to buy for important work. Also you are right when you say that
and it's much more fun to have different knives with different steels by different makers.

blackice
02-13-2013, 11:36 AM
i don't understand if this http://www.chuboknives.com/products/misono-swedish-carbon-gyutou-180mm-7-1#.URu_N_KZzr4 amd this http://japanesechefsknife.com/SwedenSteelSeries.html is the same knife...

blackice
02-13-2013, 11:38 AM
because chubo is less expensive and there haven't shippin cost....also ux 10 and other brand like masamoto are less expensive

WiscoNole
02-13-2013, 02:06 PM
For $231 you can get a Ryusen Blazen (http://japanesechefsknife.com/RyusenBlazenSeries.html) 210mm gyuto (180 is $209). It is vastly superior to anything Misono makes and comes with a nice black saya.

ThEoRy
02-13-2013, 04:18 PM
because chubo is less expensive and there haven't shippin cost....also ux 10 and other brand like masamoto are less expensive

I don't see a dragon on the chubo one. No dragon, no sale!!!!

blackice
02-13-2013, 07:33 PM
ryusen is awesome but i think that sg2 is more difficult to sharpen and i'm not very expert. I have a carbonext and i feel very well so i think i'll buy a carbon knife. But 189 dollars for misono ux10 i thinf is a good price. My idea is buy a 180 mm guyto like misono carbon steel or hiromoto AO, and i was going to buy hiromoto, but when i see ux10 at this price i have doubts....After i think i'll buy ryusen or hattori petty 150 mm. But in this momento i need a guyto 180 mm

franzb69
02-13-2013, 10:37 PM
what theory meant was it's the same knife on chubo and jck, but jck has the dragon etching on it.

ux10 is cheaper on rakuten.

blackice
02-14-2013, 10:29 AM
http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/newworldnet/item/misono-no711/ butcher is gyuto or are different knife? the picture seems the same

Benuser
02-14-2013, 10:39 AM
Is the same. Even the numbering corresponds.
Originally the gyuto had something to do with a cow IIRC.
http://japanesechefsknife.com/UX10Series.html

Lucretia
02-14-2013, 11:14 AM
I have the epicurean ryusen in sg2 (it's a blazen in a party dress), and it's not bad at all to sharpen. The heat treatment may be slightly different than the blazens, tho--as I recall the hardness is a little different. Love my ryusens.

ThEoRy
02-14-2013, 07:06 PM
Is the same. Even the numbering corresponds.
Originally the gyuto had something to do with a cow IIRC.
http://japanesechefsknife.com/UX10Series.html

Gyuto translates to cow blade as it was created for cutting up western cuisine aka beef.

ThEoRy
02-14-2013, 07:08 PM
ryusen is awesome but i think that sg2 is more difficult to sharpen and i'm not very expert. I have a carbonext and i feel very well so i think i'll buy a carbon knife. But 189 dollars for misono ux10 i thinf is a good price. My idea is buy a 180 mm guyto like misono carbon steel or hiromoto AO, and i was going to buy hiromoto, but when i see ux10 at this price i have doubts....After i think i'll buy ryusen or hattori petty 150 mm. But in this momento i need a guyto 180 mm

SG2 or R2 are not at all difficult to sharpen, can get extremely sharp and hold it's sharpness for a very long time. Also I'm curious why a 180mm gyuto and not a 210mm at least?

blackice
02-14-2013, 08:15 PM
because i have a 270 mm gyuto and sometimes is too big. At work i try a gyuto 190 mm and santoku 180 mm and i feel well with this size

blackice
02-14-2013, 08:24 PM
i think next step will be buy a petty...ryusen or hattori fh

blackice
02-14-2013, 08:27 PM
rakuten ships to italy?

TheDispossessed
02-14-2013, 09:52 PM
i worked with three guys who had 210 misono swedish gyutos and loved them

TheDispossessed
02-14-2013, 09:52 PM
they never kept them as clean as they ought to though!

franzb69
02-14-2013, 10:41 PM
afaik, rakuten ships world wide. you'll have to ask them if they're willing to ship italy. i bet they will.