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keithsaltydog
01-15-2013, 02:44 PM
I know some could care less,back in my younger yrs. was a decent climber,always liked the sport.Have all 7 Tour wins by Lance on DVD.I would not miss this thur. on Opra channel.

He always denied EPO etc. which dogged him thru out his 7 yr. run.He is not perfect(who is?)In cycling tho he is among the greats, riders like Jacques Anquetil,Eddy Merckx,who could smash riders in both the mountains & Time trails.

He dumped his wife for celeb.,would not even talk to his real Father who split on the family when Lance was very young.

jmforge
01-15-2013, 02:55 PM
The real question in my mind is whether or not he was doping before he got cancer. EPO would have been a fairly common drug for someone who was going through long bouts of chemo or radiation. That also raises the question of whether he would have been able to recover or more relevant, get back into cycling without these prescribed drugs that are illegal even under those circumstances in sport. I think that he was too young to have been "blood doping" with the transfusions of his own blood back when it was not illegal in the 80's. Remember that pretty much the entire 1984 US Olympic track cycling team admitted with no guilt whatsoever that they had stored their own blood and transfused it later for events. If he is admitting to transfusion "doping" then he may have dong this all along because it is my understanding that EPO and drugs like that which boost your own red cell production pretty much replaced transfusions in the cheater's little bag around 2000.

Zwiefel
01-15-2013, 03:08 PM
I'm a cycler, but don't really follow the sport. I also don't understand all the anxiety over PED...they should be legalized and monitored. Maybe have separate leagues for PED and "natural"...or just slightly adjusted rules depending on the nature of the sport in question. We won't stop it from happening, so let's make sure people have good information and proper care.

What I find a great deal more concerning about Mr. Armstrong are the allegations in this article...

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/questions-oprah-should-ask-lance-armstrong-230849439.html

If anything like true, it makes him a rather despicable person. Of course, even if completely true, it doesn't negate that he's done a lot of good through LiveStrong and his inspiring public image of someone who beat cancer.

AFKitchenknivesguy
01-15-2013, 04:41 PM
I don't understand the fascination with him, or Congress's fascination with baseball doping.

keithsaltydog
01-15-2013, 05:25 PM
Zwiefel I'm familiar wt some of what is mentioned in that Yahoo article,& other bully tactics not in it.Think about it,to win one Tour is hard,to win seven,you have to be so driven,take no prisoners,crush your rivals attitude.Like when he turned & looked Jan Ullrich(his german rival)in the face,like watch this sucka & road him off his wheel on the steep slopes in a Mountain stage.

I knew when Tyler Hamilton reluctantly came forward that Armstrong was guilty of doping.Tyler had nothing to gain by lying.

I am no Shrink,but the fact that he disowned his father who left him at a young age(no forgiveness),became a ruthless competitor,because of his physical & mental skills made history.He had to lie to keep up the Myth at any cost.Can you imagine what it must be like for him to have his titles stripped.

Zwiefel
01-15-2013, 05:39 PM
HUGE difference between on the field and off the field...furthermore, huge difference to do it with your competitors and with support staff and to take personal vengeance one someone when it will not help you win. That's an indication of character, not circumstances.

I do recognize that this kind of aggression is hard to turn off...and its one of the reasons I never got involved in team sports...lots of unhealthy BS goes on there (which doesn't mean it's ALL unhealthy)...and it's why I only watch two sports: Sumo and Tennis, both sports where there is a premium placed on decorum and sportsmanship (who knows what happens in the locker room though).

Yeah, I can't imagine how crushing it must be to be a competitor like that and have your life's work taken away with a pen. Honestly, I think it's ridiculous. Cycling (and other sports) just needs to acknowledge reality.

My $.02.

WildBoar
01-15-2013, 06:42 PM
The flip side is those competitors who stayed clean, and then did not win on the big stage. It was also their life's work. Maybe a couple others whose names most of us don't even know would be famous champions, and would have reaped some of the financial windfall. Should they have violated the rules just to stay competitive? Not everyone had as easy access to the state-of-the-art stuff that Lance was doing, so easier to get caught/ banned.

GlassEye
01-15-2013, 07:03 PM
I'm a cycler, but don't really follow the sport. I also don't understand all the anxiety over PED...they should be legalized and monitored. Maybe have separate leagues for PED and "natural"...or just slightly adjusted rules depending on the nature of the sport in question. We won't stop it from happening, so let's make sure people have good information and proper care.

What I find a great deal more concerning about Mr. Armstrong are the allegations in this article...

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/questions-oprah-should-ask-lance-armstrong-230849439.html

If anything like true, it makes him a rather despicable person. Of course, even if completely true, it doesn't negate that he's done a lot of good through LiveStrong and his inspiring public image of someone who beat cancer.

I am also a cyclist who doesn't really follow the sport and I agree about legalizing it, that is just how the game is played now.

jmforge
01-15-2013, 07:11 PM
Sumo? The unhealthiest sport on the planet? "Decorum and tradition" say that you get fat and die young. :lol2:
HUGE difference between on the field and off the field...furthermore, huge difference to do it with your competitors and with support staff and to take personal vengeance one someone when it will not help you win. That's an indication of character, not circumstances.

I do recognize that this kind of aggression is hard to turn off...and its one of the reasons I never got involved in team sports...lots of unhealthy BS goes on there (which doesn't mean it's ALL unhealthy)...and it's why I only watch two sports: Sumo and Tennis, both sports where there is a premium placed on decorum and sportsmanship (who knows what happens in the locker room though).

Yeah, I can't imagine how crushing it must be to be a competitor like that and have your life's work taken away with a pen. Honestly, I think it's ridiculous. Cycling (and other sports) just needs to acknowledge reality.

My $.02.

jmforge
01-15-2013, 07:24 PM
The only way that the "clean guys" could have won if everyone was clean was if Armstrong had not been able to recover from cancer without the doping. What percentage of the top guys were NOT doping in some way? Few, I suspect. If you read the Wiki entry for Greg Lemond, here is an entry that says that Lemond possibly attributes some of his succes in the 1989 Giro d'Italia, whihc was his first major race after he was shot in 1987, so "two anti-anemia treatments" that he received during the race. Was that a mispsornt, becaus4 it would probably be illegal today!
The flip side is those competitors who stayed clean, and then did not win on the big stage. It was also their life's work. Maybe a couple others whose names most of us don't even know would be famous champions, and would have reaped some of the financial windfall. Should they have violated the rules just to stay competitive? Not everyone had as easy access to the state-of-the-art stuff that Lance was doing, so easier to get caught/ banned.

Zwiefel
01-15-2013, 07:33 PM
Sumo? The unhealthiest sport on the planet? "Decorum and tradition" say that you get fat and die young. :lol2:

yeah...sadly true. Sumo wrestlers only live to 60-65yo...about 10-15 years earlier than the average Japanese man. :(

ecchef
01-15-2013, 08:14 PM
I don't understand the fascination with him, or Congress's fascination with baseball doping.

+1. I guess we have nothing more pressing to deal with as a nation.
:scratchhead:

brainsausage
01-15-2013, 11:08 PM
+1. I guess we have nothing more pressing to deal with as a nation.
:scratchhead:

I was just thinking much the same myself...

jmforge
01-15-2013, 11:12 PM
The baseball thing was all about Congress getting their mugs on TV. But realistically, since the government long ago gave baseball an real antitrust exemption, you could argue that they should have some oversight.
I don't understand the fascination with him, or Congress's fascination with baseball doping.

AFKitchenknivesguy
01-16-2013, 12:01 AM
The baseball thing was all about Congress getting their mugs on TV. But realistically, since the government long ago gave baseball an real antitrust exemption, you could argue that they should have some oversight.

I'll even expand further. I don't understand the fascination with idolizing sports. I live near Denver and would never pay to see a game, let alone go to one. Millionaires doing what? Playing a game while LEO, firefighters, teachers, and other blue collars make jack. Sports is the opiate for the masses. I hate my life, job, and spouse, but there is always the game on Sunday to look forward to!

ETA: I don't hate sports, just the business and politics of it. I grew up in a sports loving household, but looking back my dad didn't really have any hobbies, interests, or passions besides watch sports on TV. Live life, get outside, and create something!

keithsaltydog
01-16-2013, 12:34 AM
+1. I guess we have nothing more pressing to deal with as a nation.
:scratchhead:

It is endless to decide want is important.Shoots when I hear that over many thousands of yrs,the Earth moves in an eliptical orbit around the Sun when it is farther away & a wobble in the axis causes Ice Ages.Who knows?Maybe we have less control than we think.

As a nation many are obsessed wt. sports & celebrity.Through out history cultures have had Hero figures.We have become a little jaded with Hero's,after all they are only human.Lance seemed to have an amazing story,almost dying fr. cancer,going on to do what no other cyclist has done win seven tours.Then all he did for Cancer survivors.With or without drugs one of a handfull of the best ever.Now the Fallen Hero.

EPO was around through the 1990's,1998 tour was almost shut down because of drug scandle.Drug use in cycling was rampant before Lance won his first Tour.Also most all of the elite cyclist of Lances time were using drugs these European team doctors knew how to play the game.It is nieve to think other riders were clean & Lance dirty.That's why the European Cycling Federation stripping him of all his titles saying he is not worth mention,has alot of Bull&*% attached to it.A taxpayer paid Goverment agency to bring him down years after his victories.

Johnny.B.Good
01-16-2013, 01:10 AM
Lance Armstrong is dead to me (not that I ever cared much about him or competitive cycling to begin with). All dirty cyclists (which it sounds like the majority of the winners are) are, at best, frauds.

playford
01-16-2013, 01:14 AM
drugs have always been around in cycling, dexedrine and the like were hugely common back in the day.

I kind of miss steel frames, swigging champagne from the saddle and steak for breakfast cycling. It's all getting too damn clean cut.

AFKitchenknivesguy
01-16-2013, 01:25 AM
This is interesting because in the history of sports, cheating is a time honored tradition. With media coverage and ease of communication through technology, we have information almost instantly. Cheaters throughout history are in halls of fame, record books, and revered by sports fans. We just didn't have the technology then we do now to know about it. I'll pony up a bit of dirt about me. Mark McGwire was my hero growing up. I loved watching him and collecting everything I could. When the Congressional hearing came out, and he admitted to taking Andro, the public outrage towards him was immense. Forget anything good he ever did, the positive he instilled in the game, how he brought the game back from a broken state, and the fans he brought to the game. He was now a villian. A cheater who was the worst possible thing to happen to the game. I am even sure Andro was not against the rules then (I'm too lazy to research this late). Forget the entertainment value and the records he set. This is a game of honor folks! BS. It's always been about gaining an upper advantage on the next guy, no matter how it's done. Some are more deviant than others.

I've decided since sports enthusiasts abandoned McGwires honesty for some kind of personal vendetta against everything good he has done, that I hate, yes hate, everything pro sports stands for. Might I add I work at a Division I college were I oversee Division I athletes. The level of corruption among them is disheartening. They are good kids, but the coachs and athletic department staff make me sick to the stomach. They run the college because they bring in the $$. Screw sports, and anything associated with it.

chinacats
01-16-2013, 01:51 AM
Screw sports, and anything associated with it.

+1

I am an alumnus of the University of North Carolina and I was always proud that we were able to maintain academic integrity and still be highly competitive in many Division 1 sports. Man was I naive; in the past couple of years our athletic department has shamed the school to no end. I could now care less...

Back on topic, I love to ride my bike...so screw Lance Armstong and the rest of the cheaters. :2cents:

Lars
01-16-2013, 02:56 AM
Instead of going on Oprah, he should have just stayed home and be ashemed of all lives he ruined.
He has had plenty of chances to come clean over the years, but instead he chose to use his power and money to destroy the people who told the truth..

Lars

quantumcloud509
01-16-2013, 03:00 AM
In that case, oprah should have stayed home too :)

Lars
01-16-2013, 04:37 AM
In that case, oprah should have stayed home too :)

Yes or maybe have Betsy Andreu on the show instead :)

Lars

Salty dog
01-16-2013, 04:57 AM
He's a cheater. Period.

mano
01-16-2013, 08:57 AM
By most expert accounts Armstrong had the perfect physiology and psychology to win all those TdF on an even playing field -everyone doping or not doping. The same clever and brutal competitiveness on the road is what's behind him being the "mastermind of the biggest doping ring in cycling history" and lying about it.

Oprah said he wasn't contrite about the cheating and I'm not surprised. His brain doesn't work that way. Any doubt about anything he does to get ahead never enters his mind to begin with.

jmforge
01-16-2013, 09:00 AM
Excellent point. Couldn't one argue that if he hadn't doped, we wouldn't be talking about him because the 90% of the guys who HAD doped would have beaten him? :lol2:
By most expert accounts Armstrong had the perfect physiology and psychology to win all those TdF on an even playing field -everyone doping or not doping. The same clever and brutal competitiveness on the road is what's behind him being the "mastermind of the biggest doping ring in cycling history" and lying about it.

Oprah said he wasn't contrite about the cheating and I'm not surprised. His brain doesn't work that way. Any doubt about anything he does to get ahead never enters his mind to begin with.

Zwiefel
01-16-2013, 10:10 AM
Screw sports, and anything associated with it.

+2

well, organized sports anyway.

Lars
01-16-2013, 10:30 AM
By most expert accounts Armstrong had the perfect physiology and psychology to win all those TdF on an even playing field.

I think this is a myth created by Lance. His pre-cancer results shows no potentiel for winning 3-week grand tours.

Greg Lemond on the other hand fits that description perfectly. A great naturel talent.

Lars

keithsaltydog
01-16-2013, 12:02 PM
Right Lemond had a huge lung capacity,Miguel Indurain had a resting pulse of 27.

Zwiefel
01-16-2013, 12:15 PM
I remember reading a lot of stats like that about Indurain..calf to thigh length ratios, VO2 capacity, etc. Supposedly he was practically engineered for cycling. Of course, I take most of that with a grain of salt...when they start predicting such performance YEARS ahead of them winning big races, I'll start believing it...the power of science is prediction.

quantumcloud509
01-16-2013, 12:23 PM
Indurain is a lazer.

Lefty
01-16-2013, 12:51 PM
Lance is also a freak of nature. Check out his VO2 and training regime, at the time. Yes, he doped, and I wish it weren't the case, but I still think he would've developed into a "3 week rider", and won a couple tours. I'm obviously an Armstrong backer, but I'll admit, I hate that he turned out to be a cheat.

keithsaltydog
01-16-2013, 02:08 PM
Most def. Lance had some genetics on his side.He was a tri champion in his younger yrs.When he went over to cycling in Europe he was a good stocky one day champion & won a stage in the tour in 1995 at Limoges,dedicating it to his fallen Teamate Fabio Casartelli.In 1993 at age 21 he took the rainbow jersy at the Oslo world Champs.

When he came back fr. Cancer he was lighter wt. the same engine & a high RPM on the pedals,which made him deadly in the Mountains.Only the pure climber Marco Pantani could take him on the steep slopes.(another drug user,died of a cocane overdose).Armstrong was also great at Time Trials.That combo won him a few tours.That & one minded fierce competiveness.

Was he a cheater & tell lies,yes.Character Flaws without a doubt,but really how many lives did he destroy,a bully yes,but he didn't kill anybody.Hurt some feelings brought some lawsuits that's about it.Got caught

Lefty
01-16-2013, 02:26 PM
Made lots I iOS people some great money too....

EdipisReks
01-16-2013, 02:40 PM
i wonder what percentage of competitive cyclists don't cheat. it's my understanding that it's pretty endemic...

kalaeb
01-16-2013, 03:49 PM
i wonder what percentage of competitive cyclists don't cheat. it's my understanding that it's pretty endemic...

Or really any sport.

EdipisReks
01-16-2013, 03:54 PM
Or really any sport.

i think competitive roshambo (http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Ready-set-Roshambo-Contestants-vie-for-2627637.php) is still pretty clean. ;)

Zwiefel
01-16-2013, 04:12 PM
Had no idea that was another name for rock/paper/scissors...thought it was a South Park reference:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcVI64IbkIs

WildBoar
01-16-2013, 05:57 PM
Their riff on Lance/ Livestrong was pretty amusing.

Lucretia
01-16-2013, 06:08 PM
Right Lemond had a huge lung capacity,Miguel Indurain had a resting pulse of 27.

27!?!? He probably needed to wear an "I ain't dead" sign when he went to sleep. Amazing.

kalaeb
01-16-2013, 06:12 PM
Reinhold Messner at the age of 60 had a resting rate of 42.

Just sayin....

My sports heros are the non-doping type.

Lucretia
01-16-2013, 06:20 PM
Mozart at the age of 60 had a heart rate of 0.

Although he might have been a doper.

kalaeb
01-16-2013, 06:23 PM
Mozart at the age of 60 had a heart rate of 0.

Although he might have been a doper.

:lmao:

keithsaltydog
01-16-2013, 07:19 PM
:lol2:my pulse is still slow & I'm full of hot air still tho sometimes I feel half dead.

jmforge
01-16-2013, 11:53 PM
Being "built for the sport" is why the runners from the high altitude areas of North Africa do so well in distance running . They have evolved the large lungs, but for some reason, perhaps because they don't live THAt high up, they are still tall an skinny and don't have the short, stocky build that you see on the folks that live WAY up in places like the Andes. One of the best examples in recent history of an athlete being perfectly built for a sport was Janet Evans at age 14-15. She was two giant lungs and four skinny limbs with big hands and feet, so she skeetered across the top fo the water all day long. When she came back for her second Olympics at 19 or so, she was still the best in her events, but she was slower because she had filled out and sat slightly lower in the water as a result. How long did that one record that she set at an age too young for most of the Olympics events today stand? The one other woman that I have seen in my lifetime who was PERFECTLY built for her chosen field was the ballerina Gelsey Kirkland.
Right Lemond had a huge lung capacity,Miguel Indurain had a resting pulse of 27.

Chef Doom
01-17-2013, 01:25 AM
I don't feel that Lance doping during his career to get ahead in competition truly matters. In my opinion he did nothing wrong on that end. Unless they are planning on banning protein powders and creatine, every professional athlete in most sports will use some sort of performance enhancing supplement one way or another. The whole doping argument is pretty pointless. The human body was not made to do what many record breaking athletes tend to accomplish every year on 3 square meals a day. A hearty breakfast and plenty of water just won't cut it. I won't say I'm a Lance supporter because I'm not a cycling fan, but I don't feel the need to demonize him either. A lifetime ban from all competition is more than just a statement or making an example.

What I AM sickened by is Armstrong's pathetic lack of willpower and coming clean after so much fierce denial, AND by the fact that he apparently has plans to turn into the same backstabbing snitch that he fought so fiercely against beforehand. It amazes me how he (or any athlete) could have earned millions upon millions of dollars over the years, and yet still need a source of income? To go so far as to take out a line of credit on his property? It could be because of the potential lawsuits that will be coming soon, but all of those headaches were easily avoidable.

Also, his whining about being singled out is a true shame. What made him think he could win a record breaking 7 Tours and get away scot-free? No one cares about the lowly amateur fighter who has a few wins on his card. Once you become heavy weight champion though, everyone is now gunning for you. This is true in every sport.

ecchef
01-17-2013, 05:51 AM
Well stated, Doom.

Lucretia...you're nuts! :lol2:

bieniek
01-17-2013, 06:46 AM
Unless they are planning on banning protein powders and creatine, every professional athlete in most sports will use some sort of performance enhancing supplement one way or another. The whole doping argument is pretty pointless. The human body was not made to do what many record breaking athletes tend to accomplish every year on 3 square meals a day. A hearty breakfast and plenty of water just won't cut it.


Wow. So you mean Growth Hormone works like a protein shake? :scratchhead:

10 years ago I lived in a student house for athletics-school. Since I was the only one there with any clue about dietary requirements and such and I had a friend weight lifter there, I made a diet for him, I remember clearly he was allowed to eat a lot and had 9 mealtimes a day. Apart from blood checks and other magic and all kinds of shakes.
Nothing needing a prescription though.
I dont remember now how much the thriathlon girls ate, but that was not two boiled eggs and a banana.

stevenStefano
01-17-2013, 12:42 PM
I don't feel that Lance doping during his career to get ahead in competition truly matters. In my opinion he did nothing wrong on that end. Unless they are planning on banning protein powders and creatine, every professional athlete in most sports will use some sort of performance enhancing supplement one way or another. The whole doping argument is pretty pointless. The human body was not made to do what many record breaking athletes tend to accomplish every year on 3 square meals a day. A hearty breakfast and plenty of water just won't cut it.

I think most performance enhancing drugs are banned because they can be dangerous through misuse.There is a pretty big difference between dietary supplements and steroids etc. The human body is not meant to do what many athletes do, that is why some guys win all the time whereas the guy who trains just as hard comes last every race, it should be about who is just better, not who is doping and who isn't

Zwiefel
01-17-2013, 01:17 PM
I think most performance enhancing drugs are banned because they can be dangerous through misuse.

Sure, but it's not going to go away, and it is a consensual activity, so there is no compelling reason to ban it. Better to get it out in the open.

keithsaltydog
01-17-2013, 09:21 PM
Doom I agree wt alot you say,It is true the bigger they are the harder they fall.I do not see how he could have avoided this,except never to cheat in the first place.If he admitted use during the tours he would be expelled,then he made history by winning more Tours than any other cyclist,an extreamly hard thing to do.He lied to retain his place in history.

My guess that for a guy like Lance Fame is more important than fortune.The little boy left by his Father can fuel the fires for becoming famous.It would not be the first time.In his mindset he had to preserve his place in history at any cost with money & Lawyers.It is unfortunate but true that often that which we resist the most is what we get in the end.

Johnny.B.Good
01-17-2013, 10:20 PM
A tough but fair article by Dan Wetzel on Yahoo! Sports that is worth reading if this story is of any interest:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/questions-oprah-should-ask-lance-armstrong-230849439.html

Zwiefel
01-17-2013, 10:29 PM
A tough but fair article by Dan Wetzel on Yahoo! Sports that is worth reading if this story is of any interest:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/questions-oprah-should-ask-lance-armstrong-230849439.html

hmmm...looks a lot like post #3 :)

Johnny.B.Good
01-17-2013, 10:33 PM
hmmm...looks a lot like post #3 :)

Ha! So it does.

Well played, Zwiefel. :)

Are you watching his interview on Oprah? Hope she asks some tough questions, though as Wetzel points out, that is not exactly what she's known for.

Zwiefel
01-17-2013, 10:35 PM
nah...if something happens that's interesting, I'll catch it on youtube :)

Johnny.B.Good
01-17-2013, 10:41 PM
nah...if something happens that's interesting, I'll catch it on youtube :)

Me too. I don't think I even get Oprah's channel...

Just read she is breaking it up into two parts (second part to air tomorrow night).

Chef Doom
01-17-2013, 11:32 PM
Wow. So you mean Growth Hormone works like a protein shake? :scratchhead:

Naturally they work differently, but the underlying purpose and reason for an athlete to take either are the same. Basically they wish to gain an edge or push their body over a current threshold that they may have difficulty doing naturally.


10 years ago I lived in a student house for athletics-school.

I understand your point in mentioning your experience, which is why I specifically stated professional athletes. Amateurs and students who compete through universities normally (with exception to olympians and highly sports oriented colleges) do not have the money or resources to have a proper regular doping regime. It doesn't really become a major important factor until the only thing standing between you and a 10 million dollar contract is a weekly injection



I think most performance enhancing drugs are banned because they can be dangerous through misuse.There is a pretty big difference between dietary supplements and steroids etc.

There are many reasons why various athletic commissions and regulators ban various supplements and drugs. Outside of the moral question revolved around "cheating", I believe the heart of the matter is that because it would be so difficult to regulate and nearly impossible to design some kind of uniformity, it is simply easier to ban and deny. Also what people tend to forget is that there are many dietary supplements that are banned from various athletic commissions and regulating bodies. I can't recall what because I don't keep up with the latest ban lists, but I have heard of many kids training for the olympics having to research and compare the ingredients list of anything they may be taking from a health supply store to keep from testing positive for anything against regulation. I remember an article several years ago of someone being stripped of a title because they tested positive for a substance that they got at their local GNC. (That's a dietary supply store for those wondering). I believe they were considering banning Viagra from the Olympics very recently. It might sound funny, cause it is funny as hell, but Viagra increases blood flow, which allows more oxygen to entire the muscles more quickly which delays muscle fatigue, etc, etc.

But hey, for $10 million, I'd gladly pitch a tent on national television. I would just dry the tears of shame with a fan of Benjamins ($100 US) :happymug:.

jmforge
01-17-2013, 11:59 PM
Armstrong admitted to using EPO and doing the tranfuson thing, which was no surprise because those appear to be the most common types of doping in cycling. He also admitted to using testosterone, but with only one nut, how would you tell if he was "suplementing?" :lol2:. Perhaps the most interesting thing to come out of this interview is Armstrong's assertion that he quit doping after he retired in 2005, which makes sense, and that he didn't start up again when he tried to come back in 2009. I don't see any reason why he would lie about that at this point and from what I have heard, by that time, they were able to test for a lot of the stuff that they couldn't detect in say 1999. Does that mean that everyone had quit for the most part because you couldn't get away with it anymore? With no doping and a 4 year layoff, Armstrong was still able to place third in the Tour D' France. That's impressive. Hell, it would have been impressive even if he started doping again because of his age and the layoff. It would be even more amazing if we knew that the guys who finished ahead of him were doping..

JohnnyChance
01-18-2013, 01:43 AM
With no doping and a 4 year layoff, Armstrong was still able to place third in the Tour D' France. That's impressive. Hell, it would have been impressive even if he started doping again because of his age and the layoff. It would be even more amazing if we knew that the guys who finished ahead of him were doping..

Alberto Contador probably was on dope in 2009 when he won, his 2010 win was vacated after his own doping scandal. Andy Schleck took second in both events and has since been awarded the 2010 crown. There have been rumors about Andy, but then again there have been rumors about everyone, overall he is viewed as clean I would say.

keithsaltydog
01-18-2013, 03:02 AM
2011 Australia's first win in the tour wt.Cadel Evans,Aus. has always had some good sprinters,glad to see they got a tour win.

2012 England won wt.Bradly Wiggins

I would like to see a Scottish champion,there have been some good riders come out of Scotland.

El Pescador
01-18-2013, 11:29 AM
He is despicable. After watching yesterday, I can't believe his callousness. Even in apologizing he still tried to justify his actions. He is a reprehensible man who should be stripped of titles and monies won.

jmforge
01-18-2013, 12:59 PM
Personally, I think that he should be forced to return all of that money to his sponsors.......provided that those sponsors refund all of the money that they made from those ads campaigns to the consumers who bought their products. ;-)

Lars
01-18-2013, 01:37 PM
He did good for a couple of minutes, but then it went downhill fast..
Saying he was clean at races, but admitting he had epo delivered during the tour?
Both USADA and Michael Asheden are convinced he doped during his comeback.
Calling Betsy a cracy b**** and making jokes about it.
I think he is hoping to avoid doing hard time.

Lars

El Pescador
01-18-2013, 01:46 PM
Personally, I think that he should be forced to return all of that money to his sponsors.......provided that those sponsors refund all of the money that they made from those ads campaigns to the consumers who bought their products. ;-)

After watching the interview, it seems pretty clear that the sponsors probably were complacent.

Lucretia
01-18-2013, 01:55 PM
This (http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/59912_589755544387236_1657181081_n.jpg) is in very bad taste. But I admit it made me laugh.

Zwiefel
01-18-2013, 03:40 PM
Haven't watched it yet, but here's the video and an analysis.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/oprah-takes-loss-in-first-part-of-lance-armstrong-interview-174329292.html

bieniek
01-18-2013, 03:49 PM
I understand your point in mentioning your experience, which is why I specifically stated professional athletes. Amateurs and students who compete through universities normally (with exception to olympians and highly sports oriented colleges) do not have the money or resources to have a proper regular doping regime. It doesn't really become a major important factor until the only thing standing between you and a 10 million dollar contract is a weekly injection



No You didnt.
When I eaten supplements this was for very same reason athletes are. Not to say result was same nor were my aspirations. But reasoning was similar.
Was that somehow making my trainings any easier/sweat sweeter/steel lighter/ribs tougher? Not.
1. If you say first three places in European Championships are amateur, then so be it. I dont remember but I think he was once 3rd and once 2nd or 4th, up to the tragic death of his parents.
2. I mentioned it was long time ago, so you notice I dont remember things. And the knowledge changes a lot, 10 years period might mean revolution. So what I thought of as very decent diet nowadays might be considered insanity. Who knows?
For example I remeber reading somewhere that humans body can absorb just up to 60 grams of proteins a day, and the rest is by some kind of reaction, which was just recently discovered [it was thought that aminoacids cannot be made into lipids] turned into fats and stored. Now, that is all I can remeber, so not much, but I never mixed soy/egg proteins with HG or Testosterone. Theres nothing in common.

sudsy9977
01-18-2013, 03:56 PM
i feel bad for him a little.....for the fact that so many in professional sports use illegal substances and he was caught and his titles stripped....it went from my daddy's a hero to my daddys a cheater overnight......for that one reason i feel for him a little....ryan

Johnny.B.Good
01-18-2013, 04:06 PM
i feel bad for him a little.....for the fact that so many in professional sports use illegal substances and he was caught and his titles stripped....it went from my daddy's a hero to my daddys a cheater overnight......for that one reason i feel for him a little....ryan

I would too, if he hadn't attempted to ruin the personal and professional lives of those who told the truth about him before he was forced to admit the truth himself.

WildBoar
01-18-2013, 04:19 PM
Not sure about 'over night' when he did it over a 10+ year period and was under very public suspecion for over half of that. It seems like more of "catch me if you can"

keithsaltydog
01-18-2013, 04:49 PM
Ruthless ,calculating,decieving, all of these.Armstrong's fall is compleat,now the fallout.,Lawsuits esp.Brit. Newspaper Sunday Times who paid out 1 MIl. for Libel Suite.I'm sure more to come.

Guy's who win multible tours are not exactly shrinking violets.The greats-- Jacques Anquetil--,often not popular wt. the public because he won too much,In 1961 he held the yellow jersey fr. the second stage all the way to the final stage,no mercy.

The Great Eddy Merckx--called the Cannibal--Fierce competitor,won more stages over his career than anyone.Got punched in the kidneys by a spectator in his last tour.

Bernald Hinault-The Badger,an animal who will not let go of his prey-Tough as nails 5 time tour winner.On his 5th tour he took a bad fall,blood running down his face & broken nose,obstructed his breathing for the rest of the tour.As he fell back,Lemond his teammate was ordered back so Hinault could win the tour.Lemond at this point could have won the tour,but could not take advantage of his team leaders misfortune.So Hinault won his fifth tour & promised to help the young American win the next one.

1986 tour Hinault forgot his promise,wanting to win a 6th tour,he went on the attack as Lemond fell 4.5 min. back he could not believe it.Ruthless, calculating,decieving,oh my goodness,bring in the politically correct police.To Lemonds credit he got tough & eventually hammered his way to victory.

Just watching the first Opra,looks like Armstrong's goose is cooked,not any credibility at this point.

Almost all posts are negative.Many taking glee in what a piece of crap he is.Just remember it is so easy to tear somebody down,esp when they are in the dirt.It took being backed into a corner & his titles stripped,for him to come clean with no other option left,I feel if he could have gotten away wt. he would never admit it.Serious character flaws.

Chef Doom
01-19-2013, 01:48 AM
I feel if he could have gotten away wt. he would never admit it.Serious character flaws.

+1

But...I believe keith made an excellent point. Fame has become more important to him than anything else.

A foolish man indeed.