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perneto
01-18-2013, 07:28 PM
Hi all,

I'm looking for information on knife skills that does not assume soft western knives are used. In particular, this is the only way of boning chicken legs I know of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy8k3xh45iM
(excuse my French :p)

It involves scraping the bones - not going to work well at all with a Japanese petty.
How do the Japanese do it?

Beyond chicken legs, I'd be very interested in any other knife skills information that works for thin hard knives.
(BTW, this is about to be back in print: http://www.bookdepository.com/Japanese-Kitchen-Knives-Hiromitsu-Nozaki/9781568364902)

Thanks!

heirkb
01-18-2013, 07:40 PM
Do you see how he removes the top part of the second bone around 1:45-1:55 in the video? You can do everything he does the same way, except wherever he scrapes, copy the technique he uses at 1:45. In other words, anytime you want to scrape, you can just shave the meat off the bone with little cuts like he does for the second bone. Or, you could flip your knife over and scrape with the spine (if it's not too rounded, this will work well) :p

Mike9
01-18-2013, 08:30 PM
Check this out from Pepin at about 5 min. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kAekQ5fzfGM It's pretty slick.

cclin
01-18-2013, 09:24 PM
Check this out from Pepin at about 5 min. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kAekQ5fzfGM It's pretty slick.

Mike, thanks for link! I learn some new skill..I'll try it at this weekend:)

mpukas
01-18-2013, 09:29 PM
I just did two chicken galantine tonight and used my Yusuke 210 suji/petty. No problem.

Love that Pepin video.

mpukas
01-18-2013, 09:31 PM
Somewhere in YouTubeLand there's a vid in a Japanese chicken butchering facility, and a woman demonstrates how they debone chicken legs using a honesuke. Don't have time to find now...

turbochef422
01-18-2013, 09:54 PM
Try this. It's the thighs.
http://youtu.be/Ijp2MnV0amQ

mpukas
01-18-2013, 10:47 PM
Try this. It's the thighs.
http://youtu.be/Ijp2MnV0amQ

Bad ass. Thanks for posting. I can see the next big mass buying splurg coming... I've certainly wanted one for a long time.

turbochef422
01-18-2013, 11:01 PM
The same person who does the thighs does a badass whole chicken breakdown with a masamoto honesuki.
http://youtu.be/3fpKgXqhvtQ
I've been practicing that flow of movement it's hard to be that seamless.

mpukas
01-18-2013, 11:33 PM
Now that's awesome! There are lots of vids & different techniques out there to break down a chicken, but this makes the most sense to me. Similar in some ways to how I break down a chicken, but this guys got more skill and uses different parts differently than I do/can. Thanks again!

Mike9
01-18-2013, 11:53 PM
Mike, thanks for link! I learn some new skill..I'll try it at this weekend:)

I'd consider it, but I have seven chickens I brined over night and am drying them to roast tomorrow night. I took the wish bones out already. I'll have to use both ovens for a change. Lucky it's been cold - I have them on racks in pans in between the back doors. :cool2:

jaybett
01-19-2013, 02:22 AM
I've learned a lot from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRc2TL1C3KQ&feature=endscreen

Jay

franzb69
01-19-2013, 02:34 AM
pepin is champion of boning. =D

heirkb
01-19-2013, 02:44 AM
Now that's awesome! There are lots of vids & different techniques out there to break down a chicken, but this makes the most sense to me. Similar in some ways to how I break down a chicken, but this guys got more skill and uses different parts differently than I do/can. Thanks again!

That method makes sense to me for yakitori, but otherwise, I like the skin on the breast.

That first video that turbochef posted demonstrated what I was talking about. Instead of scraping the meat off, the chef cuts it off the bones. I forgot to add earlier that you also have to dig around with your fingers a bit. If you watch the video closely, you'll see he cuts to expose the bone and once it's almost completely off the meat, he digs his fingers a little under the bone so that he has an opening for his knife to cut the last bit off each end of the thigh.

jaybett
01-19-2013, 04:22 AM
pepin is champion of boning. =D

I think there may be more then a few Chinese or Japanese Chefs who might disagree, especially when it comes to chicken.

Jay

quantumcloud509
01-19-2013, 04:33 AM
I am really keeping an eye out for a honesuki lately. Hope someone will post a rehandled Takeda one for sale soon :)

jaybett
01-19-2013, 04:38 AM
That method makes sense to me for yakitori, but otherwise, I like the skin on the breast.

That first video that turbochef posted demonstrated what I was talking about. Instead of scraping the meat off, the chef cuts it off the bones. I forgot to add earlier that you also have to dig around with your fingers a bit. If you watch the video closely, you'll see he cuts to expose the bone and once it's almost completely off the meat, he digs his fingers a little under the bone so that he has an opening for his knife to cut the last bit off each end of the thigh.

Most of the videos I've seen, they will scrape the bone. While the techniques vary the Chinese and Japanese use a method where strategic cuts are made and the meat is pulled off the bone. Martin Yan can break down a chicken in less then 18 seconds. The Japanese probably can break down and de-bone a chicken in less then a minute.

Jay

Stumblinman
01-19-2013, 05:36 AM
Hmmm now I have a hankering for a honesuki. My preferred method is Yan's. I've been trying to get into the cleaver style but only have the dexter version I got from the asian market. But with it I can reproduce Yan's method at about 25 secs. But that doesn't attribute anything to the deboning of legs. The deboneing of the legs seems to lead to French style of cooking anyway so what is the reference >?

franzb69
01-19-2013, 06:21 AM
I think there may be more then a few Chinese or Japanese Chefs who might disagree, especially when it comes to chicken.

yeah, i know but i gotta give the man some respect. so props to him and all that. =D


Martin Yan can break down a chicken in less then 18 seconds.

seen that too, and he even admits that his technique was based on jacques' boning style.

Stumblinman
01-19-2013, 06:32 AM
I worked off Jacques style for a bit. I love his bit with Julia @! But Martin streamlined it and it works. But he never bones a thigh/leg.

jaybett
01-19-2013, 12:44 PM
Here is a video of the Chinese method of breaking down a chicken and de boning it with a cleaver. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wODJLqDPBCw&feature=endscreen The method is similar to Martin Yan's.

Jay

chinacats
01-19-2013, 01:53 PM
Here is a video of the Chinese method of breaking down a chicken and de boning it with a cleaver. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wODJLqDPBCw&feature=endscreen The method is similar to Martin Yan's.

Jay

wrong video link?

Zwiefel
01-19-2013, 03:37 PM
That Pepin video is very cool. The video with the Honesuki is also pretty cool, but pretty different end product from Pepin.

jimbob
01-20-2013, 12:26 AM
ol' pepin got me inspired and i just boned my first chicken. used an old global chef knife for fear of damage but i reckon many knives could do it. all rolled up with basil pesto and spinach, good times.

jaybett
01-20-2013, 02:44 AM
wrong video link?
Yep!

Here is the correct one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHYflYe0cpY

jaybett
01-20-2013, 03:37 AM
That method makes sense to me for yakitori, but otherwise, I like the skin on the breast.

That first video that turbochef posted demonstrated what I was talking about. Instead of scraping the meat off, the chef cuts it off the bones. I forgot to add earlier that you also have to dig around with your fingers a bit. If you watch the video closely, you'll see he cuts to expose the bone and once it's almost completely off the meat, he digs his fingers a little under the bone so that he has an opening for his knife to cut the last bit off each end of the thigh.

Here is a video, where the membrane, next to the bone is being cut off, instead of scrapped off. Thought you might like to see it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkesUyn-9Ls&feature=endscreen

Jay

perneto
01-20-2013, 09:09 AM
Thanks all, I'm learning a lot!

A related question: is anyone breaking down and boning poultry with a deba? Would that be a bad idea? Is a honesuki/garasuki much better?

mikemac
01-20-2013, 11:13 AM
In the past I used a (inexpensive) Tosagata HD Deba....not that its a bad idea, but that style blade is both tall and thick....the petty/parer/honesuki/garasuki/boning knives just seem to get it done easier.



Thanks all, I'm learning a lot!

A related question: is anyone breaking down and boning poultry with a deba?...?

perneto
01-22-2013, 05:47 PM
For reference, I also found these two videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gf5QUFh3L8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2raI04WFJ4k

The second one in particular shows a very efficient technique for leg boning, I think I'm going to adopt this one.

heirkb
01-22-2013, 05:59 PM
Yep!

Here is the correct one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHYflYe0cpY

So with this and the first link in the post above, do you cut the drumette at the joint where it meets the body in order to pull off the breast? I kind of want to try that method for removing chicken breasts.

megapuff5
01-22-2013, 10:39 PM
Jacques Pepin has amazing skills

jaybett
01-23-2013, 12:06 AM
That video plus Martin Yan's videos, got me interested in breaking down chicken in the Eastern style.

Jay


For reference, I also found these two videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gf5QUFh3L8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2raI04WFJ4k

The second one in particular shows a very efficient technique for leg boning, I think I'm going to adopt this one.

jaybett
01-23-2013, 12:17 AM
Martin Yan does a cut along the both sides of the breast and then does a cut down one side of the back. He continues the cut up from the breast and through the chicken wing joint. At that point he can pull the breast off. Here is a video showing the technique. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V37Pc45P4HA

Jay


So with this and the first link in the post above, do you cut the drumette at the joint where it meets the body in order to pull off the breast? I kind of want to try that method for removing chicken breasts.

Chuckles
01-23-2013, 04:49 AM
The Japanese probably can break down and de-bone a chicken in less then a minute.

All you need is one person to break the minute mark. Then everyone else on the crew feels slow until they can do it too.