PDA

View Full Version : How does semi-stainless steel behave



thomasp
01-23-2013, 02:21 PM
I have been reading this forum for quite a while now and there is a lot of useful information. Thanks everyone.

I am a home cook (but I cook every night for 5 people) and I thought it is time I upgraded my german chef's knive to a Japanese gyuoto.

I would the added advantage of carbon, but fear I am not ready yet for a full carbon knife. Therefore I was considering a semi-stainless knife like the Carbonext or the Konosuke HD.

However, I don't know whether I am ready for their steels. How quickly do they rust? And does the patina have any negative effects?

For example, what happens if I cut a couple of onions, a lemon, some other veggies and some meat, then rinse it off under the tap and leave it, without drying, for two hours. Will it rust then? Will it patina?

And what happens if I leave a knife wet overnight to drip dry?

Thanks!

Zwiefel
01-23-2013, 02:25 PM
Welcome to the forum!

I would suggest you also consider Stainless-clad carbon. It's become one of my favorite combinations as you get 95% of the advantages of each. The Gesshin Gengetsu is one example of this type of construction...but there are a lot of others some of the Knuts can recommend.

thomasp
01-23-2013, 02:44 PM
Thanks, Zwiefel.

How would a stainless cladded carbon react in the cases I described? Would it rust on the edge? Would it form a patina on the edge? And would this patina impact cutting performance?

Pensacola Tiger
01-23-2013, 02:48 PM
Welcome to the forums!

Semi-stainless will not rust if left damp for an hour or so. Carbon, or stainless clad carbon will. Nor will semi-stainless take a patina. The most that will happen is a hazy discoloration.

That said, if I could make a suggestion, you should develop some better habits with your knives. Regardless of the steel it is made from, you cultivate a habit of wiping off the blade after each task, and never leaving it wet overnight. Think of it as a painter cleaning his or her brushes after a job.

Rick

Jmadams13
01-23-2013, 02:48 PM
You might want to consider the Suisin Inox line as well. I just had one on a passaround, and loved it.

Zwiefel
01-23-2013, 02:58 PM
Welcome to the forums!

Semi-stainless will not rust if left damp for an hour or so. Carbon, or stainless clad carbon will. Nor will semi-stainless take a patina. The most that will happen is a hazy discoloration.

That said, if I could make a suggestion, you should develop some better habits with your knives. Regardless of the steel it is made from, you cultivate a habit of wiping off the blade after each task, and never leaving it wet overnight. Think of it as a painter cleaning his or her brushes after a job.

Rick

:plus1: I think the patina on SS-Clad carbon is particularly nice, and there is a lot less carbon steel exposed. Here's a photo of my Gengetsu petty with an early patina:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8298/7749050778_c072576f1f.jpg

Here you can see the construction of the knife as a patina also formed on the spine:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8427/7749052588_84eeba6073.jpg

With a minor change in how you care for your knives, you could make use of this style and it will open up a lot of possibilities for you.

Rick, I thought the semi-stainless knives like the Carbonext would develop a "patina lite"...I saw some photos of one recently with purples, and blues.

Pensacola Tiger
01-23-2013, 03:01 PM
Rick, I thought the semi-stainless knives like the Carbonext would develop a "patina lite"...I saw some photos of one recently with purples, and blues.

Neither the Konosuke HD, the CarboNext nor the Kikuichi TKC I had developed a patina. I guess I need to pick up another CarboNext and try?

cwrightthruya
01-23-2013, 03:07 PM
My Yoshikane SKD11 has a patina, although it took quite some time to develop, and is nowhere nearly as beautiful as the carbon patina. On that note, I have never seen my Yoshikane rust, but my carbon knives rust in no time.

Regards,
Chris

bikehunter
01-23-2013, 03:12 PM
Welcome

Zwiefel
01-23-2013, 03:21 PM
I might have conflated two different things...

This: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/10127-FS-210mm-Carbonext-Gyuto-UK-EU?highlight=
and the Yoshikane that cwrightthruya mentioned...maybe.

EdipisReks
01-23-2013, 03:25 PM
my Heiji semi-stainless knives rather quickly take a patina, in an acid test, though it's not particularly dark, and easily comes off.

cclin
01-23-2013, 03:44 PM
my most concern for carbon & Stainless-clad carbon is food reactive. the best semi-stainless knife I ever used is Yoshikane SLD, it hardly develop patina & rust, no food reactive! cut & sharpening like carbon. my favor all around gyuto!!

stevenStefano
01-23-2013, 05:36 PM
Semi-stainless behaves pretty much like stainless, except that the blade will get a few cloudy marks on it. My Carbonext takes much more of a "patina" than my Kono HD

EdipisReks
01-23-2013, 07:38 PM
my most concern for carbon & Stainless-clad carbon is food reactive. the best semi-stainless knife I ever used is Yoshikane SLD, it hardly develop patina & rust, no food reactive! cut & sharpening like carbon. my favor all around gyuto!!

my Heijis have never discolored food or created any smell, which is nice.

cclin
01-23-2013, 08:04 PM
my Heijis have never discolored food or created any smell, which is nice.

yap! Heijis semi-stainless is next one on my list. however, I believe Heijis SS develop patina......

EdipisReks
01-23-2013, 09:24 PM
my Heiji semi-stainless knives rather quickly take a patina, in an acid test, though it's not particularly dark, and easily comes off.

see above.

Chifunda
01-23-2013, 09:28 PM
I have a Kono HD 150 petty that I use on a regular basis to peel and section oranges and grapefruit; it could damn near pass for new.

But then, it's never been left wet or dirty.:disdain:

bamin
01-23-2013, 09:34 PM
+1 for Yoshikane SLD

Suisin Inox Honyaki and Konosuke HD are cheaper though.

JBroida
01-23-2013, 10:54 PM
inox honyaki is not semi-stainless

K-Fed
01-24-2013, 12:38 AM
My tkc's are a nice hazy grey. And the hd that I used to have but passed on to a co-worker is the same. I haven't found acidic foods to noticeably affect cutting performance. I love the semi stainless in both.

sachem allison
01-24-2013, 12:45 AM
all of my AEB-L's don't have a single spec of patina.

WiscoNole
01-24-2013, 01:55 AM
I think the fear of starting with a carbon knife is exaggerated. If you usually wipe your German knife off within a few minutes of using it, you'll be fine with 90% of carbon knives (a select few are extremely reactive). And if you forget once in a while, a simple grocery store green scrubee will take off the light rust you've accumulated in a matter of seconds. Chances are, you'll start with this knife, then go to full carbon, and finally ask yourself why you didn't just start with carbon and save the price of the first knife.

cclin
01-24-2013, 02:29 AM
I'm in other way around! I start with carbon knives & I like keep all my knives clearn. I take care my carbon knives with Japanese way- wash with hot water before and after use, wipe in between use and polish with Daikon before go to the bed. However, I got lazy lately...I start use my semi-stainless/ PM steel/ AEB-L more often than my carbon knives. they cut as good as carbon & I don't have to worry about food reactive issue! I still love my carbon knives, just not use them as often as before.....

I think the fear of starting with a carbon knife is exaggerated. If you usually wipe your German knife off within a few minutes of using it, you'll be fine with 90% of carbon knives (a select few are extremely reactive). And if you forget once in a while, a simple grocery store green scrubee will take off the light rust you've accumulated in a matter of seconds. Chances are, you'll start with this knife, then go to full carbon, and finally ask yourself why you didn't just start with carbon and save the price of the first knife.

cwrightthruya
01-24-2013, 08:45 AM
I'm in the same situation. Being a home cook, vegetarian, and loving highly acidic foods, I started out with carbon (Shigefusa among several others), and as long as I was spending as much time taking care of the knife as I was prepping food, then I had no problems. But, with 60+ hours a week at work, and a need to actually spend some time with my wife besides the casual hello in passing, I got lazy. I moved to Yoshikane SKD and SLD blades and have liked them so much that I recently purchased a Gesshin Heiji from John, which I am anxiously awaiting.

But, even now when I am prepping for multiple person meals (guests), and have time to sit and enjoy my prep work and my knives, I still pull out my Shig's.

Regards,
Chris




I'm in other way around! I start with carbon knives & I like keep all my knives clearn. I take care my carbon knives with Japanese way- wash with hot water before and after use, wipe in between use and polish with Daikon before go to the bed. However, I got lazy lately...I start use my semi-stainless/ PM steel/ AEB-L more often than my carbon knives. they cut as good as carbon & I don't have to worry about food reactive issue! I still love my carbon knives, just not use them as often as before.....

mr drinky
01-24-2013, 09:26 AM
I have a TKC and when it arrived it had a laminate film on it that reduced the patina. Eventually, I took the film off with acetone as the hazy patina was developing oddly around the edge of the protective film and where I pinched the blade. After that it developed the 'haze' more evenly. Just throwing that out there. Some knives come with this protective film on it.

I do find that I polish my TKC up more often than my carbon knives. There is something not very satisfying about the haze patina versus a full on carbon patina, but that is just me. I would also add that I don't know if there is a huge advantage of making a gradual step to carbon with semi-stainless. I would second a stainless clad carbon knife as others have pointed out. A Hiro might be a good option too, and you can sometimes pick up a used one with a pimped out handle on this forum.

k.

Cadillac J
01-24-2013, 09:01 PM
The semi-stainless in my Kono HD barely reacts at all, but this is what my Carbonext looked like after about 6 months of use (and not regular, as I switch knives often)

next to true stainless for comparison
http://i50.tinypic.com/2v2vyuu.jpg