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Dave Martell
05-06-2011, 10:36 PM
Seems like these knives are going to be winners for the price point but a little thicker than what most here want from their knives. Consider sending these knives to us to get them tweaked and performing up to par. The extra cost added in will still get you a low cost knife but with the extra blade work being done they should perform much better and elevate the knives into a higher performance bracket.

Essentially what I'm offering is to pick up where the robots leave off, tweak to the max performance in blade thickness, profile grind, blade face resurfacing, and sharpened by myself to our standard.

We'd love to have the work. :thumbsup:

chazmtb
05-07-2011, 12:00 AM
I like how you think Dave.

Eamon Burke
05-07-2011, 01:25 AM
Makes good sense. I did this for a friend's Chicago Cutlery. It was his main knife and he got the set for Christmas, passed down from his parents. Cheap knife, was constructed like crap and didn't ever see a high level of finish or maintenance. Now he has a knife worth owning.

I'd say if anyone has one of these, Dave would make a fine finisher for it!

Dave Martell
05-07-2011, 09:22 AM
Looks like there's interest enough in this to give it a try. I've already got two maybes and one definite on the way....cool. :)

stereo.pete
05-07-2011, 12:41 PM
Dave,

I will be sending you my Addict on Monday and I cannot wait to see what you do with it.

Dave Martell
05-07-2011, 01:42 PM
Dave,

I will be sending you my Addict on Monday and I cannot wait to see what you do with it.


Sweet - thanks Pete! :)

El Pescador
05-07-2011, 02:18 PM
What's the price for an Addict tune up?
Pesky

Dave Martell
05-07-2011, 05:39 PM
What's the price for an Addict tune up?
Pesky

Hi Judd, I'm honestly not sure yet, depends on how easy (or not) the job goes. The first few that I do will be real cheap while I figure it out, I usually do things this way as a way of saying thanks for lending me your knife to play with. :)

Jim
05-07-2011, 05:56 PM
Myself and my Nakiri thank you!

Dave Martell
05-07-2011, 06:28 PM
Myself and my Nakiri thank you!


And you are both welcome! :)

Andrew H
05-07-2011, 10:25 PM
Good plan Dave.

Dave Martell
05-09-2011, 12:35 PM
I just received the first addict knife to play with. My initial impression is that it's a Watanabe with not so great F&F (epoxy glob on the handle & sharp choil is why I say this - the spine rounding and blade finish is nice) but it's a little too thick behind the edge. The edge itself appears to be buffed over and as a result is rounded and slick - will not slice or push cut paper. The profile is surprisingly quite nice although it falls into a belly rocker type knife more than most but makes good contact along it's length.

I think that what it needs more than anything is thinning on the lower portion of the blade. I'll talk this over with the owner and see if this is something that we will try or not. I'll report back on what we end up doing.

Dave Martell
05-09-2011, 04:50 PM
Looks like Mark @ CKTG has just put up an option to have these knives "finished sharpened" by one of his guys which is cool, but just to be clear, this is not what I'm offering. I'm offering to regrind the blade face to make the knife perform a lot better and then finish sharpen. I think that this distinction between edge and blade work is important to note. :wink:

WildBoar
05-09-2011, 04:55 PM
Looking forward to seeing what you come up with on these.

Dave Martell
05-09-2011, 06:32 PM
I just finished working on the first Addict and I now have a good idea of what it'll take to do this job. The steel is very gummy and loads up the coarse Blaze belts real bad (something I haven't seen before) but it's do-able none the less.

I'll be sending this back out to the customer tomorrow morning for his critique. If he says it works better than this service is a go. :smile1:

Dave Martell
05-09-2011, 06:34 PM
These are the before (OTB) pictures.


http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=477&d=1304976846

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=476&d=1304976840

Dave Martell
05-09-2011, 06:38 PM
Here are the after pictures. I didn't do much more than a stock finish on the blade, it's been thinned from spine to edge bevel, most of the logo is gone although you can faintly see it in the right light set up, the choil has been smoothed over, and the handle has been oiled/waxed since it looked dry - I wish I could have done something with that glue glob though. So in the end it doesn't look all that much different but I'm pretty sure it's a whole new knife performance wise now.


http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=479&d=1304977088

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=478&d=1304977083

stereo.pete
05-09-2011, 07:10 PM
Dave,

I dropped my addict as well as my Konosuke 150mm White #2 petty off at Fedex and shipped them to you for some TLC.

SpikeC
05-09-2011, 08:20 PM
Yee-haw, that is one ugly blade/handle transition!

99Limited
05-09-2011, 08:28 PM
Yee-haw, that is one ugly blade/handle transition!

+ 1

EdipisReks
05-09-2011, 08:32 PM
Yee-haw, that is one ugly blade/handle transition!

yeah. the Takeda i owned had visible epoxy sealing the blade to the handle, but it was nearly applied and looked fine.

Dave Martell
05-09-2011, 08:56 PM
Dave,

I dropped my addict as well as my Konosuke 150mm White #2 petty off at Fedex and shipped them to you for some TLC.


Nice, thanks Pete!

heirkb
05-09-2011, 10:11 PM
If only there were a way to thicken out the tang on those knives. I'd still not buy one, but at least they wouldn't look so awkward.

Dave Martell
05-11-2011, 04:48 PM
Dave,

I dropped my addict as well as my Konosuke 150mm White #2 petty off at Fedex and shipped them to you for some TLC.


Your box arrived this afternoon. :)

aaronsgibson
05-11-2011, 05:40 PM
So Dave, how much did you end up removing from the blade as a whole? For the price it looks to be a decent mid-level knife. Now I don't own one but from what others have said that is what I'm thinking it as.

Dave Martell
05-11-2011, 05:47 PM
I didn't measure it before or after but I know that the person who sent me it did measure it beforehand so maybe I can talk him into re-measuring it again after. The reason why I didn't measure it is because I go by feel.

Pensacola Tiger
05-13-2011, 03:12 PM
The knife was returned after Dave’s gentle ministrations, and the difference is night and day. It performs less like my Wusthof santoku and more like my Harner nakiri (don't worry Butch, it's nowhere near the same), and is a pleasure to use. Now, if Dave would have just fixed the profile...

Bottom line is that if you buy a Richmond Addict, send it to Dave if you want it to perform.

Rick

Weight: 188g (6g less)
Length of edge: 239.5mm (no change)
Height of blade at heel: 55.2mm (no change)

Blade thickness:
Spine at heel: 2.65mm (0.10 less)
Midpoint at heel: 1.60mm (0.05 less)
Edge at heel (right above bevel): 0.40mm (0.40 less)

Spine at midblade: 2.50mm (0.05 less)
Midpoint at midblade: 1.50mm (0.05 less)
Edge at midblade (right above bevel): 0.35 (0.30 less)

Spine at 1cm from tip: 0.80mm (0.25 less)
Edge at 1cm from tip (right above bevel): 0.35 (0.25 less)

SpikeC
05-13-2011, 04:12 PM
Wow, 6g less! Thats quite some metal.

EdipisReks
05-13-2011, 04:13 PM
yeah, it really is. from the before and afters, it appears that the Addict is pretty thick at the edge, in stock form.

WildBoar
05-13-2011, 04:41 PM
yeah, it really is. from the before and afters, it appears that the Addict is pretty thick at the edge, in stock form.No joke -- he thinned it by 50% :Ooooh:

EdipisReks
05-13-2011, 04:45 PM
i wonder why that decision was made, originally. putting a thinner grind, even if modestly thinner, is an easy way of getting more performance out of a knife. it's just strange to me that it was so thick, OOTB.

WildBoar
05-13-2011, 05:08 PM
i wonder why that decision was made, originally. putting a thinner grind, even if modestly thinner, is an easy way of getting more performance out of a knife. it's just strange to me that it was so thick, OOTB.More grinding time = higher cost?

EdipisReks
05-13-2011, 05:21 PM
More grinding time = higher cost?

well sure, but adding $10 onto a budget knife for better performance seems worthwhile to me.

99Limited
05-13-2011, 07:29 PM
You know Mark had to start somewhere. How many people have ever made a high performing knife on their first try..... nobody. I just glad Dave has got the skills to pickup where someone else left off to turn the Addict into a good knife.

Andrew H
05-13-2011, 07:32 PM
You know Mark had to start somewhere. How many people have ever DESIGNED a high performing knife on their first try..... nobody. I just glad Dave has got the skills to pickup where someone else left off to turn the Addict into a good knife.

Designed, definitely not made.

mr drinky
05-13-2011, 07:32 PM
You know Mark had to start somewhere. How many people have ever made a high performing knife on their first try..... nobody. I just glad Dave has got the skills to pickup where someone else left off to turn the Addict into a good knife.

And now Mark has the exact measurements to send to Lamson to improve it also ;) It still won't have Dave's edge though, but his Addict logo might be intact.

k.

EdipisReks
05-13-2011, 07:33 PM
You know Mark had to start somewhere. How many people have ever made a high performing knife on their first try..... nobody. I just glad Dave has got the skills to pickup where someone else left off to turn the Addict into a good knife.

it's not like Mark invented the first kitchen knife from scratch.

99Limited
05-13-2011, 07:56 PM
it's not like Mark invented the first kitchen knife from scratch.

Yeah, but look at how many custom knife makers try their hand at making a chef or gyuto and don't get it right, and they're expert craftsmen.

I don't know why he even bothered commissioning the Addict or the Remedy. Maybe it's was just "Why not?", but at least he's trying.

EdipisReks
05-13-2011, 08:07 PM
if anybody has enough kitchen knives to look at for ideas, it's Mark. :) i like Mark, i've bought lots of things from Mark, and i'm sure i'll buy more from him in the future, but i don't get it.

Dave Martell
05-13-2011, 09:44 PM
The knife was returned after Dave’s gentle ministrations, and the difference is night and day. It performs less like my Wusthof santoku and more like my Harner nakiri (don't worry Butch, it's nowhere near the same), and is a pleasure to use. Now, if Dave would have just fixed the profile...

Bottom line is that if you buy a Richmond Addict, send it to Dave if you want it to perform.

Rick

Weight: 188g (6g less)
Length of edge: 239.5mm (no change)
Height of blade at heel: 55.2mm (no change)

Blade thickness:
Spine at heel: 2.65mm (0.10 less)
Midpoint at heel: 1.60mm (0.05 less)
Edge at heel (right above bevel): 0.40mm (0.40 less)

Spine at midblade: 2.50mm (0.05 less)
Midpoint at midblade: 1.50mm (0.05 less)
Edge at midblade (right above bevel): 0.35 (0.30 less)

Spine at 1cm from tip: 0.80mm (0.25 less)
Edge at 1cm from tip (right above bevel): 0.35 (0.25 less)


Wow, I hadn't realized that it was that much removed, but like I said I never measured it......not bad. Sorry about the profile though Rick, I didn't mess with it because I wasn't sure what to do with it.

Now......the question will be how it holds up being this thin.

Pensacola Tiger
05-13-2011, 10:11 PM
I was only kidding about the profile, Dave. :poke1:

I'll let you know how it holds up, but I think it'll do fine.

Dave Martell
05-13-2011, 10:15 PM
I was only kidding about the profile, Dave. :poke1:

I'll let you know how it holds up, but I think it'll do fine.


Ah you got me. :D

Yes please let me know how it holds up.

EdipisReks
05-14-2011, 01:45 AM
if only Dave had melted it down and forged it into a nicer knife. now that would have been service. ;)

Pensacola Tiger
05-14-2011, 08:05 AM
if only Dave had melted it down and forged it into a nicer knife. now that would have been service. ;)

And added some trace elements that transformed the 154CM into CPM154 at the same time. Hey, the tang still looks too thin for it to be a beautiful knife, but the profile really isn't that bad. It's pure Watanabe, and he has a following.

All kidding aside, I have to say that the work that Dave did transformed the knife totally. Before Dave worked his magic on it, I was trying to decide how much I was willing to lose reselling it. Now, it's a keeper.

Thanks, again, Dave!

mano
05-14-2011, 08:12 AM
The knife was returned after Dave’s gentle ministrations, and the difference is night and day. It performs less like my Wusthof santoku and more like my Harner nakiri (don't worry Butch, it's nowhere near the same), and is a pleasure to use. Now, if Dave would have just fixed the profile...

Bottom line is that if you buy a Richmond Addict, send it to Dave if you want it to perform.

Rick

Weight: 188g (6g less)
Length of edge: 239.5mm (no change)
Height of blade at heel: 55.2mm (no change)

Blade thickness:
Spine at heel: 2.65mm (0.10 less)
Midpoint at heel: 1.60mm (0.05 less)
Edge at heel (right above bevel): 0.40mm (0.40 less)

Spine at midblade: 2.50mm (0.05 less)
Midpoint at midblade: 1.50mm (0.05 less)
Edge at midblade (right above bevel): 0.35 (0.30 less)

Spine at 1cm from tip: 0.80mm (0.25 less)
Edge at 1cm from tip (right above bevel): 0.35 (0.25 less)

Does anyone know how these measurements compare to the Carbonext 240 gyuto? I own one but don't have the measuring tools.

Dave Martell
05-14-2011, 10:31 AM
Thanks, again, Dave!


You're welcome and thank you for letting me play with your knife. :)

rockbox
05-14-2011, 10:36 AM
I think if I were looking for stainless at this price range, I would get the one from JCK in vg-10.

TB_London
05-20-2011, 06:02 PM
Wow, the before and afters really do highlight howthickbehind the edge they are..... Also 6g less after addding weight by oiling the handle

Strange that it was gumming up the belts, does this indicate it may be more likely to clog stones? Not sure what characteristics cause this so may not be related, would be interesting to hear peoples thoughts

Dave Martell
05-21-2011, 12:12 AM
Strange that it was gumming up the belts, does this indicate it may be more likely to clog stones? Not sure what characteristics cause this so may not be related, would be interesting to hear peoples thoughts


No, not necessarily.

chazmtb
05-21-2011, 12:31 AM
Designed, definitely not made.

Copied not designed

JohnnyChance
05-21-2011, 04:18 AM
Murray is apparently doing the final sharpening on these.

Dave Martell
05-21-2011, 12:09 PM
Murray is apparently doing the final sharpening on these.

"Finish sharpening"......not thinning though :wink:

Dave Martell
05-21-2011, 12:13 PM
BTW, it's pretty clear to me that what I'll have to charge to do this thinning work (to make the knife perform good) is likely prohibitive to the customer to put into a knife of this price point. Adding this cost is going to bring the knife up into another bracket where I'm sure better choices exist. Still though, I'll be happy to do this should someone have one of these and want to get it to work correctly.

StephanFowler
05-23-2011, 06:37 PM
i wonder why that decision was made, originally. putting a thinner grind, even if modestly thinner, is an easy way of getting more performance out of a knife. it's just strange to me that it was so thick, OOTB.

going from a moderately thick edge (.012 or so) down to a fairly thin edge (.009) GREATLY increases the difficulty of finish grinding the knife.
A decent analogy would be something like Honda cars that get souped up, yeah, you can turbo the engine up to the point where you have a fairly fast car, but to REALLY get there you need a car that was designed to be fast in the first place (Porsche, Lotus, Jaguar, Corvette, etc)

sudsy9977
05-23-2011, 10:48 PM
Murray is apparently doing the final sharpening on these.



"Coming Soon. Jmbullman from the Foodie Forums is a talented knife sharpener and we're offering a low priced way to turbo charge the Addict with a custom sharpening job by James. We will be stocking several knives so if you add this item to the knife we you will get an Addict that is thinned on the lower portion of the blade and finish sharpened with no wait."



looks like mark is just giving blades to everyone to sharpen.....looks like jmbullman, ken, and murray carter are doing finish sharpening?......seems kinda odd to me....but hey what do i know.....ryan

dough
05-23-2011, 11:05 PM
yea its not a question... thats clearly what mark has decided to do.... all of which are only doing the edge not the same complete thinning dave has demonstrated in this thread.
either way i dont get it but id imagine you will get your choice? perhaps this is an attempt at appealing to different markets however small they might be. maybe its just too much work for one guy so you get three with different styles.

Miles
05-24-2011, 04:46 AM
I've found that there are a great many knives that I've tried that don't quite perform the way I expected or hoped they would right out of the box. At the same time, I recognize I'm not the average knife user either. My expectations are very high and I don't think anything about taking a knife to the belt sander to thin and/or bring out the kind of performance that I want from a knife. It sounds like what Mark has brought to market is something which might be a great knife for most, but for most of us, a knife which requires some fine tuning to bring out what we want. If it were a bit more modestly priced, I'd be very tempted to give it a test drive. IF it provides a particularly advantageous quality, such as an unusually lengthy edge holding ability, I'd consider it to be a diamond in the rough. Since it's so new, I'll have to reserve judgement until it has more of a track record.

Dave Martell
06-04-2011, 10:41 PM
Got me another slab side in to whittle down, I hope to get to it tomorrow. :)

Dave Martell
06-06-2011, 12:53 PM
Murray is apparently doing the final sharpening on these.


I see that there's now 6 other "finish sharpening" options (from novice sharpeners) to select from besides Murray. What's up with that? Maybe Mark's testing his options to see who does the best work? LOL :lol2:

JohnnyChance
06-06-2011, 01:50 PM
Sounds like the perfect way to devalue your original product.

Eamon Burke
06-06-2011, 07:05 PM
For those looking for explanation(as I was), I heard from the horse's mouth that the next run of Addicts are going to be 20% thinner, and CPM154. I guess there was a consensus on that need--Carter's page even says that he thins the bottom half.

He also told me that he is trying to offer different sharpeners as a chance to create exposure for folks who like to sharpen, as a way of giving back to people who refer him and patron his store.

Dave Martell
06-06-2011, 07:39 PM
He should shoot for 50% thinner, he'd have a winner then.

Dave Martell
06-07-2011, 09:27 PM
I just got through skimming some fat off another piglet.....she's lean and trim now. :)

PS - This steel is gummy galore but moves easy enough, just doesn't finish nicely.

Pensacola Tiger
06-07-2011, 09:34 PM
I just got through skimming some fat off another piglet.....she's lean and trim now. :)

PS - This steel is gummy galore but moves easy enough, just doesn't finish nicely.

I'm still enjoying the one you "put on a diet" for me, Dave. The edge is holding up nicely.

Rick

Dave Martell
06-07-2011, 09:42 PM
I'm still enjoying the one you "put on a diet" for me, Dave. The edge is holding up nicely.

Rick


Good to hear on both counts. :)

stereo.pete
06-12-2011, 02:04 PM
Dave,

I just picked up my newly trimmed Addict from the post office and I cannot thank you enough. Your work is amazing and after seeing what you've done with this knife I am even more excited for what you will be doing with your own knives. Thanks again and job well done!

Dave Martell
06-12-2011, 03:03 PM
I'm glad you like it Pete & thanks for the work. :)

EdipisReks
06-12-2011, 08:00 PM
I just got through skimming some fat off another piglet.....she's lean and trim now. :)

PS - This steel is gummy galore but moves easy enough, just doesn't finish nicely.

ah man, i know exactly what you mean by that comment, about it being gummy. that's too bad. makes it much less likely that i buy one for my girlfriend's little brother for his birthday, as dealing with that isn't for novices (he can always come over for me to work on it, but he works at a cafe, so that's not always an option, as i can't sharpen his knives every day).

EdipisReks
06-12-2011, 08:01 PM
I see that there's now 6 other "finish sharpening" options (from novice sharpeners) to select from besides Murray. What's up with that? Maybe Mark's testing his options to see who does the best work? LOL :lol2:

good thing they aren't having me work on them, it would take me 5 or 6 hundred hours per knife until i was finally fully happy. :) that of course would include thinning and refinishing. ;)

panda
03-29-2013, 05:26 AM
got a hold of an addict, but don't know if it's 1st or 2nd gen. it appears to have been reprofiled as there is mostly all flat and even the rise to the tip is flat with very little curve. wondering if there are any clues as to how to tell (profile obviously out of the question).

i'm going to put a new edge on it and it looks like it could do with a bit of thinning, i don't have a grinder but do have a diamond plate and a naniwa 150. any advice or just go at it and have fun grinding away for hours?

is it just this one, or does the handle seem to tilt downward, was that intentional? it looks weird as hell!

Dave Martell
03-29-2013, 12:11 PM
got a hold of an addict, but don't know if it's 1st or 2nd gen. it appears to have been reprofiled as there is mostly all flat and even the rise to the tip is flat with very little curve. wondering if there are any clues as to how to tell (profile obviously out of the question).

i'm going to put a new edge on it and it looks like it could do with a bit of thinning, i don't have a grinder but do have a diamond plate and a naniwa 150. any advice or just go at it and have fun grinding away for hours?

is it just this one, or does the handle seem to tilt downward, was that intentional? it looks weird as hell!


Hi Panda,
I don't know about the profile difference or the handle design history on this particular knife but like with all knives if the profile has been adjusted by someone then the sides of the blades will require some thinning to make it even and get it thin enough to pass through food without wedging. I'd suspect that it needs thinning even if the knife's profile wasn't messed with though, these knives are a tad thick in their stock form.

How to do this? There's the hard way or the expensive way....the hard way is you grinding and refinishing until you're content...the expensive way is to send it to someone like myself who does this work.

zitangy
03-29-2013, 03:31 PM
yeah. the Takeda i owned had visible epoxy sealing the blade to the handle, but it was nearly applied and looked fine.

++ agreed. ON tthe Takeda..it covers it nicely unlike on the Adict. Its clear and see thru if I remember correctly. Just a bob of unvenly applied. It makes sense to put epoxy. Not sure what brand it is adn I have resorted to putting super glue on the tang/ferule point so as to prevent water entering the handle and slowly rust/rot the tang inside; completely hidden from view.

I separated a gyuto ( which i paid usd 5/-- from a Japanese surplus store and i don't see a any lamination lines) from the handle and I noticed that the tang/ rat tail has corroded badly to the point that in the center of the rat tail, it is thinner than the rest and can be easily bent. I suppose a new rat tail needs to be welded. But it is way beyond my level of competence.

so apply some "cow sperm" to prevent water from getting in.

have fun

rgds d

panda
05-31-2013, 03:59 AM
ok so i went the hard way, and finally set my own bevels on the addict with a big righty biased bevel. it feels AWFUL on the stones, god i hate sharpening this steel. but afterwords, it's actually a really good cutter (despite the steel being annoying to sharpen, it takes a good edge and holds it reasonably well), mine's to a point where i would consider it a thicker laser. so if you have an addict and arent happy with how it performs, you should either do the work (warning: huge pain in the ass for this knife, mine's scratched all to hell above the edge which i dont mind and or feel the desire/need to polish it out) or just have someone like dave do it for you (smart way, lol).

i post this because i was going to sell it off since i never ended up using it. now that it's been tweaked to my liking, i use it while on the line quite a bit. all my cooks love this knife now.

Dave Martell
05-31-2013, 10:24 AM
I'm glad to hear that you worked off some of the fat from your knife panda and that it performs good for you now.