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Dave Martell
01-30-2013, 02:24 PM
There's a lot of back door business being conducted here at KKF where some members are taking advantage of the system being paid for by contributing vendors & hobbyists.

I have implemented a policy that will place any member known to be doing business here into a usergroup that restricts them from the use of the PM system and possibly the email system as well.

If you find yourself in this group then you have a choice to make if you want to continue to do business here - apply to become a hobbyist, pro craftsman/vendor - but do not expect to be here taking orders and selling products for free while other members pay for the privilege.

I'm sorry for having to do this but it's truly shameful the amount of knifemakers who have used (or attempted to use) KKF and for having to force this sort of thing unto the community here.

If you're in this group and wish to discuss the matter please feel free to email me and I'll be happy to discuss the matter with you but please do not try to change my mind or explain what other forums do or what you expect you are owed because I will not answer those emails.

To everybody else, please excuse this message and it's ill tempered nature. :)

Dave

Lars
01-30-2013, 02:41 PM
Thanks for looking after the community, Dave :thumbsup:

Lars

ThEoRy
01-30-2013, 03:58 PM
Come on y'all need to straighten out. Vendors pay good money for the privilege to post goods and services. You're hurting your friends and fellow members with this activity.

knyfeknerd
01-30-2013, 07:13 PM
That sucks. IMO there is no way you guys could ever charge enough to make it profitable enough for yourselves considering all the hard work and care that goes into these knives and handles etc. It is not cool to take advantage of all the hard working paying craftsmen and vendors.

chinacats
01-30-2013, 10:45 PM
Thanks for looking after the community, Dave :thumbsup:

Lars

:plus1:

Seems the vendor deal would be well worth it for those interested in selling their goods. So many good references and a large group of people willing to spend their hard earned cash to try those goods. I love purchasing from the vendors here and will continue to do so, I have not been even slightly disappointed yet.

Cheers!

l r harner
01-30-2013, 10:55 PM
since im not taking orders publicly i would like to ask that no one use the PM or email system to contact me (about orders ) all other stuff have at it i love talking
BTW i have 3 retailers so im not realy looking for biz im selling evey thing i make

BTW whats up with the new chalange an dpass for thread answers ?

Pabloz
01-31-2013, 09:20 AM
since im not taking orders publicly i would like to ask that no one use the PM or email system to contact me (about orders ) all other stuff have at it i love talking
BTW i have 3 retailers so im not realy looking for biz im selling evey thing i make

BTW whats up with the new chalange an dpass for thread answers ?

This applies to me as well. It appears that my PM priviledges etc. have been revoked...can't even view my own profile.

PZ

JUST TO BE CLEAR...I have not used the PM system at anytime to solicite any work what so ever and chose to cancel by hobbyist vendor status due policy changes at KKF.

Lefty
01-31-2013, 09:33 AM
This is getting dirty. We all saw this complication coming... We're a forum full of tinkerers and skilled craftsmen, and for everyone who ends up getting a sale or bit of work as a result of this forum to be expected to sign up as a craftsman, or vendor is kind of unrealistic. I'm a paying vendor, and I understand that people know that Butch makes knives and that Pablo refurbs them and does beautiful leatherwork, and as a result, they might get some extra contracts, indirectly from this forum. I have no problem with that...we can't exactly expect them to hide their identities, can we?

Sorry, Dave, if this seems inappropriate, but I just feel this is a never-ending battle. I don't want to see us lose great members who can actually contribute some intelligent posts, just because of a few dollars. Many of these guys are already afraid to post anything out of fear of offending someone. I dunno... This sucks.

Pabloz
01-31-2013, 10:08 AM
This is getting dirty. We all saw this complication coming... We're a forum full of tinkerers and skilled craftsmen, and for everyone who ends up getting a sale or bit of work as a result of this forum to be expected to sign up as a craftsman, or vendor is kind of unrealistic. I'm a paying vendor, and I understand that people know that Butch makes knives and that Pablo refurbs them and does beautiful leatherwork, and as a result, they might get some extra contracts, indirectly from this forum. I have no problem with that...we can't exactly expect them to hide their identities, can we?

Sorry, Dave, if this seems inappropriate, but I just feel this is a never-ending battle. I don't want to see us lose great members who can actually contribute some intelligent posts, just because of a few dollars. Many of these guys are already afraid to post anything out of fear of offending someone. I dunno... This sucks.

THANK YOU SIR!!!!
Your assessment is spot on. My motive for participating with this forum has always been to learn from and contribute something benefitial to the membership at large.


PZ

Dave Martell
01-31-2013, 10:37 AM
Let me explain this in more detail. We have a somewhat crazy amount of knifemakers flocking over from the dead world of custom hunter/bowie knifemaking, coming here looking to get into what is the only growth market in the knife business - kitchen knives. The problem isn't that this is happening but it's the volume that is being seen and more importantly the attitudes and actions that we get from these guys that has me reacting the way that I am.

Too many are expecting (and even demanding) to do their thing as they want to, they violate our guidelines (Terms of Use), they argue about this when asked to comply, they send unsolicited PM's to members regarding their wares/services, and when asked to contribute they have every excuse in the book and even deep resentment and insults to share with me. For myself, as the forum owner, having to deal with this constantly (almost every damn day) is more than I can take, more than I'm willing to take any longer.

These people have negatively effected the community. They've caused vendor rates to increase, they've strained me personally, and I'm no longer willing to assess each member on a case by case basis. I'm sick and tired of fighting with these guys and because of this I'm making changes that I wish to avoid but yet find necessary to do.

So from now on if a member is known to be involved in any related business then they have a choice to make - they can either be a restricted member or contribute their fair share as a vendor or hobbyist. I realize that this isn't ideal and will turn some people away. I don't wish to lose a single member over this issue but if we have to lose a member who is causing a strain then I can live with that. I'm sorry to say this but it's the honest truth about how I feel.

Dave Martell
01-31-2013, 10:40 AM
To the guys who are posting about themselves in this thread, I'll ask that you take this to email as I requested in my original post. This thread isn't going to turn into a debate on your personal situations.

Dave Martell
01-31-2013, 10:50 AM
Couple more things I need to add....

I hope that everyone can understand that this isn't about losing money - it's 100% about losing aggravation and making things fair across the board.

We are NOT looking for more vendors/craftsman.

Lefty
01-31-2013, 11:06 AM
Sorry if I was out of line, Dave. I'm just finding this whole situation frustrating from my perspective, as well. I just don't want this site to turn into "the other forum", where there are countless vendors and maybe an equal number of members. However, I do like that this isn't a big talkin advertisement like the "other other forum", if you know what I mean.

With that being said, I still think that people are going to contact certain members for certain jobs regardless of whether or not they are vendors, craftsmen, what-have-you. Part of the nature of the beast is that guys will contact others to do work for them. Unfortunately, we don't have everyone's contact info, so sometimes PM's are exchanged, and rules are broken. If this is an occasional thing, I don't see a real issue with it, but hey, I'm just one amongst many.

Dave Martell
01-31-2013, 11:15 AM
Sorry if I was out of line, Dave. I'm just finding this whole situation frustrating from my perspective, as well. I just don't want this site to turn into "the other forum", where there are countless vendors and maybe an equal number of members. However, I do like that this isn't a big talkin advertisement like the "other other forum", if you know what I mean.

With that being said, I still think that people are going to contact certain members for certain jobs regardless of whether or not they are vendors, craftsmen, what-have-you. Part of the nature of the beast is that guys will contact others to do work for them. Unfortunately, we don't have everyone's contact info, so sometimes PM's are exchanged, and rules are broken. If this is an occasional thing, I don't see a real issue with it, but hey, I'm just one amongst many.


No worries Lefty. I do hear what you're saying.

l r harner
01-31-2013, 11:29 AM
dave i posted about it here to make sure that people dont try to order stuff from me on here as per your rules. doing that in email woudl require a bulk email and and your list of contacts (i dont have that members list )

Pabloz
01-31-2013, 12:19 PM
To the guys who are posting about themselves in this thread, I'll ask that you take this to email as I requested in my original post. This thread isn't going to turn into a debate on your personal situations.

Dave,
No debate intended nor necessary.
Your request cannot be met due to your own imposed restrictions.....I cannot PM or email you. But no problem, it's not necessary.

PZ

Dave Martell
01-31-2013, 03:20 PM
@Butch, you don't need to announce anything.



@Pablo, I have my email listed on all my websites.

Don Nguyen
02-01-2013, 12:34 AM
Hey Dave, I'm just wondering if the Random Question for posting is new for everybody or just to the restricted members?

Pabloz
02-01-2013, 12:42 AM
Hey Dave, I'm just wondering if the Random Question for posting is new for everybody or just to the restricted members?


LOL
Don,
Welcome to Club Sequestered at KKF.

PZ

Dave Martell
02-01-2013, 12:54 AM
Hey Dave, I'm just wondering if the Random Question for posting is new for everybody or just to the restricted members?


I didn't know that there's a question being asked before posting. Is this happening every time you try to post?

Dave Martell
02-01-2013, 12:55 AM
Hey Dave, I'm just wondering if the Random Question for posting is new for everybody or just to the restricted members?


LOL
Don,
Welcome to Club Sequestered at KKF.

PZ


Nice :disdain:

Don Nguyen
02-01-2013, 01:03 AM
I didn't know that there's a question being asked before posting. Is this happening every time you try to post?

Yeah it's asking me "What is the name of this forum?" for every post.

(Which is new ever since yesterday/today I think)

Dave Martell
02-01-2013, 01:13 AM
Hey Dave, I'm just wondering if the Random Question for posting is new for everybody or just to the restricted members?


I didn't know that there's a question being asked before posting. Is this happening every time you try to post?


Yeah it's asking me "What is the name of this forum?" for every post.

(Which is new ever since yesterday/today I think)


I found the setting requiring human verification to be switched on, it's off now so you shouldn't see that message again.

Drumjockey
02-01-2013, 01:14 AM
It did that to me for about 10 posts/replies when I first joined, but haven't noticed it since. If it happens now, I'll repost immediately

Drumjockey
02-01-2013, 01:14 AM
Nope...

Dave Martell
02-01-2013, 01:17 AM
It did that to me for about 10 posts/replies when I first joined, but haven't noticed it since. If it happens now, I'll repost immediately


That shouldn't have happened either. You're only supposed to be asked upon registration and that's it.

Geez, I'm sure some people are going to think that I have it out for all the new guys too. :bashhead:

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

77kath
02-01-2013, 07:21 AM
I don't know whether this is the right place to mention this, but my first two introductory posts failed to show up. Glitches in the ether? Not a complaint, just an observation.

Marko Tsourkan
02-01-2013, 08:32 AM
Let me explain this in more detail. We have a somewhat crazy amount of knifemakers flocking over from the dead world of custom hunter/bowie knifemaking, coming here looking to get into what is the only growth market in the knife business - kitchen knives. The problem isn't that this is happening but it's the volume that is being seen and more importantly the attitudes and actions that we get from these guys that has me reacting the way that I am.

Too many are expecting (and even demanding) to do their thing as they want to, they violate our guidelines (Terms of Use), they argue about this when asked to comply, they send unsolicited PM's to members regarding their wares/services, and when asked to contribute they have every excuse in the book and even deep resentment and insults to share with me. For myself, as the forum owner, having to deal with this constantly (almost every damn day) is more than I can take, more than I'm willing to take any longer.

These people have negatively effected the community. They've caused vendor rates to increase, they've strained me personally, and I'm no longer willing to assess each member on a case by case basis. I'm sick and tired of fighting with these guys and because of this I'm making changes that I wish to avoid but yet find necessary to do.

So from now on if a member is known to be involved in any related business then they have a choice to make - they can either be a restricted member or contribute their fair share as a vendor or hobbyist. I realize that this isn't ideal and will turn some people away. I don't wish to lose a single member over this issue but if we have to lose a member who is causing a strain then I can live with that. I'm sorry to say this but it's the honest truth about how I feel.

I agree with Dave.

For folks whose primarily interest has always been kitchen knives, the influx of crossovers is a bit discouraging. In a close-knit community sometimes people are reluctant to come with a constructed criticism (or by rules are not allowed to), so it is hard tell who is who. In the pictures all knives look great. Review section helps somewhat.

I am not saying that it is affecting me personally, but this is a trend that I have been observing for some time now.

M

Don Nguyen
02-01-2013, 08:44 AM
Dave I get where you're coming from with the PM thing, but can you explain why we are are also not allowed to view profiles? Is it just to prevent contact altogether, PM and possible emails/other?

Dave Martell
02-01-2013, 10:44 AM
Dave I get where you're coming from with the PM thing, but can you explain why we are are also not allowed to view profiles? Is it just to prevent contact altogether, PM and possible emails/other?

It's to prevent contact through email.