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Rosco
02-03-2013, 04:04 PM
I have a set of Globals and 2 Tojiro knives, and I want to learn to sharpen these before I start to upgrade to a few good knives. I am just about to buy a Bester 1200 and an Atoma 140 diamond plate as well as a stone holder. I already have an 8x3 Coticule. Will this setup be enough to learn sharpening or will I need another stone, or anything else, for that matter? The Globals are less than a month old, and the Tojiros are over a year old. Never been sharpened.

eaglerock
02-03-2013, 04:06 PM
Very good start :)

ThEoRy
02-03-2013, 05:40 PM
Rika 5k perhaps? Definitely a stropping solution is needed as well.

Rosco
02-03-2013, 06:26 PM
Rika 5k perhaps? Definitely a stropping solution is needed as well.
I just wanna get started, and maybe buy a higher grit (4-8k) stone later on if that is feasible. Is the srtopping for polish or deburring? I have some strop leather and some chromium oxide powder hidden away somewhere. I am considering now the Sigma Select II 400 and 1200 grit stones. Dunno why, other than I like to be awkward. I also reallydon't like the idea of soaking the Bester for hours. I don't mind having to soak stones for a little while (up to 15mins or so) before use but I really think the soaking of the Bester would just vexx my head.

ThEoRy
02-03-2013, 09:36 PM
I don't know much about cocitules, about what grit range is it?

franzb69
02-03-2013, 10:34 PM
blue belgian stones are around 4k range, yellow coticules are at around 8k range.

TB_London
02-04-2013, 03:55 AM
Fwiw i barely use my Bester preferring my Chosera stones.

Benuser
02-04-2013, 05:18 AM
For Chosera in Europe:
edenwebshops.co.uk
edenwebshops.de
800 and 2 or 3k

rdpx
02-04-2013, 02:36 PM
Ben do you know if the Edenwebshps UK are good prices?

Chosera seem out of my budget, but I am looking at buying something to compliment the #1000 stone I have, and was thinking of ordering the JCK #6000 (50) or something from the Eden site.

Problem is I don't really know what the difference is in any of them, why one might be better than the other etc.

On ebay I have found these, which all look decent and come as low as 35 delivered....

#6000 King at 35 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Japanese-Waterstone-Polishing-6000-Grit-510465-/190731555774?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item2c687c93be)

Naniwa #5000 at 38.50 (but might be ebay bid war?) (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Naniwa-Super-Stone-5000-5K-grit-Japanese-Waterstone-Razor-Hone-Knife-Sharpener-/321064100074?pt=UK_Kitchen_Accessories&hash=item4ac0e960ea)

King #6000 - 30 but again ebay bidding (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/King-6000-6K-grit-Japanese-Waterstone-Straight-Razor-Hone-Knife-Sharpener-/321064689888?pt=UK_Kitchen_Accessories&hash=item4ac0f260e0)

Too much information!

The KING #6000 for 35 delivered looks like a very good price really. Would I be better off paying the extra 15 to get the one from Kiko, or will there be no difference?

Thanks

Robert

Benuser
02-04-2013, 04:29 PM
I was thinking about a grit to remove the 1k scratches and prepare for Cr2O3 or coticule. Therefore rather 3k than 6k, which is coming from the 1k too large a jump for most of us.

The 3k would be fine as a final stone as well.

The sites I mentioned use to have the best prices in Europe as far as I know. It may though be interesting to compare their and prices and consider ordering from their German site.
Would the Naniwa 3k SuperStone be an option? It's considerably softer and slower than the Chosera, but that may help you acquiring the right technique.
Some time ago they sold the Chosera in half width as well. Price difference was some 35%. Especially for finer Chosera stones that may be a good option as they hardly wear. Ask for them.

I've no personal experience with the other stones you mentioned.
Your prices were shipping included. Please remember the custom duties and handling charges involved with stuff from outside EU.

mhlee
02-04-2013, 06:14 PM
1k to 6k is fine in my experience. If you look through the threads, many people make this jump. I've gone from a King 1000, King 1200, Gesshin 2000 to the King 6000.

I also recall a few people doing a 1k to 5k jump.

rdpx
02-04-2013, 06:37 PM
1k to 6k is fine in my experience. If you look through the threads, many people make this jump. I've gone from a King 1000, King 1200, Gesshin 2000 to the King 6000.

I also recall a few people doing a 1k to 5k jump.

I have found the same guy selling the 6K King stone is also selling a 4K stone for just 22...

I have never sharpened anything past 1k before, so am wondering [given I am only going to buy one stone right now] whether I should:

A: buy the 4K stone and get the 6K later if I find it is not enough

or

B: buy the 6K stone, and get the 4K later if I find it is too much of a drag to go from 1 to 6?

Benuser
02-04-2013, 06:57 PM
I think a relative novice shouldn't start with these large jumps, and may better follow a slower progression, and learn where to stop.

rdpx
02-04-2013, 07:38 PM
I think a relative novice shouldn't start with these large jumps, and may better follow a slower progression, and learn where to stop.

Complete novice here, I must admit.

I might just have found the perfect compromise:-

http://www.edenwebshops.co.uk/en/pt/-eden-quality-combi-waterstone-grain-2000-5000.htm

Rosco
02-04-2013, 07:39 PM
I've just bought a Sigma Select II 400 grit & 1200 grit, an Atoma 140 and a stone holder. I think I am all set when this stuff arrives, but will probably add a finer stone once I get better with the 1200. Like I say, I already have the Coticule, so I will try that as my first finishing stone. If it doesn't work out, I will try something else. Am I right in starting to learn to sharpen at the 1k range before attempting a finer stone? Any tips/pointers?

Canadian
02-04-2013, 07:40 PM
I have a set of Globals and 2 Tojiro knives, and I want to learn to sharpen these before I start to upgrade to a few good knives. I am just about to buy a Bester 1200 and an Atoma 140 diamond plate as well as a stone holder. I already have an 8x3 Coticule. Will this setup be enough to learn sharpening or will I need another stone, or anything else, for that matter? The Globals are less than a month old, and the Tojiros are over a year old. Never been sharpened.

Honestly, master the Bester 1200 first, then worry about higher grit stones. This way you will learn about pressure control--you should be able to get extremely sharp edges with a 1k. If not, then you need to practice more.

mhlee
02-04-2013, 07:40 PM
I think a relative novice shouldn't start with these large jumps, and may better follow a slower progression, and learn where to stop.

I generally agree with that, but I always think of a few things as I have practiced sharpening:

More stones = more chance for error
Coarser grit stones = more metal ground away

Granted, this all depends on what stones you use and how you use them. But a higher grit, harder stone, generally takes off less metal than a lower grit, coarser stone. I'm not saying that a higher grit stone can't damage a knife - of course it can.

Really, the issue, to me, is what kind of edge does the member want? I was just saying that the jump is fine. What if the member wants a 6k edge? Why get an intermediate stone unless there's a benefit to the edge that the member wants from that intermediate stone?

I'm not asking this to be confrontational. But, why do you feel that buying an intermediate stone is more beneficial for novices? I am very curious.

Canadian
02-04-2013, 07:42 PM
I've just bought a Sigma Select II 400 grit & 1200 grit, an Atoma 140 and a stone holder. I think I am all set when this stuff arrives, but will probably add a finer stone once I get better with the 1200. Like I say, I already have the Coticule, so I will try that as my first finishing stone. If it doesn't work out, I will try something else. Am I right in starting to learn to sharpen at the 1k range before attempting a finer stone? Any tips/pointers?

See my above post. You are on the right track. Just keep practicing on your 1.2k stone. Good luck. Free hand sharpening is frustrating at times, but worth the effort. The best online tutorials in my opinion are posted by Jon at JNI--they helped my sharpening journey immensely.

rdpx
02-04-2013, 07:53 PM
Really, the issue, to me, is what kind of edge does the member want? I was just saying that the jump is fine. What if the member wants a 6k edge? Why get an intermediate stone unless there's a benefit to the edge that the member wants from that intermediate stone?

Well this novice member doesn't really know what edge he wants or needs! I have just been reading thread upon thread and gathered that #1000 wasn't even beginning to be properly refined, and as I understand it the edge will hold for longer if it is further refined. I tried out a Kikuichi Elite Carbon yesterday (factory sharp) and it seemed terrifyingly sharp if I am to be honest, I have never experienced a knife edge gripping into a chopping board like it did. But I am thinking that as I am about to buy a knife (Carbonext 210 gyuto) I should learn how to keep it properly, and have gathered that means going at least one stone after the #1000. I have been practising on my old Sabatier and I have been really enjoying the sharpening process, and think that I have been doing a not bad job, which will hopefully only get better. I would like whatever I buy now to be useful to me immediately and also in the future.

The 2000/5000 I linked above seems like it might be right for me, but I must admit I prefer the idea of a non-combi stone as it seems more serious, if you get what I mean.

I hope Rosco doesn't feel I have hijacked his thread at all, its just I was about to start a very similar one, and figured that was probably going to be overload.

Thanks

Robert

mhlee
02-04-2013, 08:03 PM
No worries about the slight hijacking of the thread, I'm gonna help bring it back to the OP's questions.

Yes - definitely get used the the 1200 first. And, based on my own experience with that stone (see the passaround thread about that stone if you're interested in learning more about that stone before using it), if you become good at using that stone, you'll be ready to move on. It's a hard, fast-cutting stone that's good for double bevel, stainless knives. I would be mindful about how much pressure you're using when you use that stone.

I would not, however, use it for single bevel knives. It does not leave a nice finish for single bevel knives, and can quickly abrade the softer cladding of single bevel knives.

Rosco
02-04-2013, 08:15 PM
I hope Rosco doesn't feel I have hijacked his thread at all, its just I was about to start a very similar one, and figured that was probably going to be overload.

Robert

Not at all. It's all about stones anyway. When I am not asking questions I am browsing/searching the forums to try and figure things out myself as I know most of my questions have been asked and answered a thousand times over.


Well this novice member doesn't really know what edge he wants or needs!

I know the feeling. It's hard to find the answers when you aren't sure what the question is.

rdpx
02-04-2013, 08:18 PM
I know the feeling. It's hard to find the answers when you aren't sure what the question is.

I think question might be "What grit do I need to get my knife sharp enough to amaze me and be good for the knife, but not so sharp that I am terrified to pick it up?"

:biggrin:

ajhuff
02-04-2013, 09:10 PM
Disregard this.