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View Full Version : JCK Original KAGAYAKI CarboNext 210 Gyuto



rdpx
02-08-2013, 03:49 PM
So, just over three days after ordering, my new CarboNext arrived from Seki, Japan, to London, UK.

There has been a lot of talk in posts about the OOTB edge, and F&F etc, of this knife, so I will post a few photographs to pass on my first impressions.

Main thing is that I really like this knife. It is my first J-knife, so I really have very little to compare it to, but nevertheless I am very pleased with it. Already I want a longer one as many on here suggested, but I did actually go try out a couple of 240s and they just seemed too large. Maybe sometime in the future I will jump up a level.

Let me say this though - the knife seems pretty dang sharp to me. Now I am not experienced with these knives and I have no doubt it can get sharper, but still it feathers through printer paper, and I did a "goodfellas" style garlic slice, which is thinner than any garlic I have ever sliced before. I will have a serious camera next week and might take some full on macro shots of the OOTB edge (after a week of cooking!) then maybe after that I will sharpen it. As it is it is plenty sharp enough for me just now, when I am used to the weight and feel of it I will hone it down. Checking the blade with a loupe, the edge is not finished properly right at the choil end - this cearly needs fixing, but for today it's more than fine.

The F&F seems very good really - there are a couple of bits on the handle that are not 100% perfect, but they are purely visual - no raised burrs etc. The blade has some discolouring to it that looks like uneven grind maybe? It's not a big deal. If I had spent $300 on a Hattori FH I would be upset with that kind of finish, but with this knife I am happy.

Upshot, I like it a lot so far. Now I have to go cook some dinner with it, instead of taking pictures of it, and waffling on. So here are some pictures for your delight:

http://i.imgur.com/Xv2mE4r.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/YPy0Syl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/acdcwzo.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1jUn0m2.jpg

with a goodfellas slice of garlic.....
http://i.imgur.com/oAQcgrJ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/VU0t3AL.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/7GOgx3z.jpg

rdpx
02-08-2013, 03:54 PM
More pictures.... so you can see the OOTB edge and other details...[note that the two edge shots are exact same scale so should show an experienced eye what the asymmetric split is.]

http://i.imgur.com/hddtl4e.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/BhOzs2H.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/9W0dFL9.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/nju6loP.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/dzppLGb.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ACQv9KN.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/bz0xSFq.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/SPZkpTy.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/tLLqqgi.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mDITi4D.jpg

stevenStefano
02-08-2013, 04:09 PM
It's kinda funny how there are knives like the Carbonext that are so highly recommended yet nobody has ever done a good review of one or looked at one in precise detail. The pictures are nice. I got a 270 a few weeks ago and though I've barely used it yet I like it. I thought the OOTB edge on mine was horrific, worse I've ever used on any knife. Fit and finish is pretty decent for a knife of the price, 5 mins with sandpaper sorts out the spine and choil. Wish the kanji was engraved a bit better though, it looks cheap as hell

Jmadams13
02-08-2013, 04:32 PM
Amazing pictures. Nice review too. No was happy with the oOTb edge on mine too, for about a week. But if your happy, that's all that matters.

chinacats
02-08-2013, 04:40 PM
Sweet, thanks for the pics. Not bad getting a knife in 3 days from Japan, hope customs didn't hit you too bad. Look forward to a full review once you've gotten used to it a bit.

Cheers

Kelson
02-08-2013, 04:52 PM
very nice photo skills and pictures indeed.
Have some exif informations ? (sorry if my question is not knives related).

Benuser
02-08-2013, 05:09 PM
Very nice pix indeed. About your concern regarding the edge near the heel: are you sure it is not the blade getting thicker? In which case forcing a visually even bevel could cause an overgrind.

don
02-08-2013, 05:29 PM
Great pictures, how did you take these?

jayhay
02-08-2013, 06:09 PM
Yeah man, wonderful shots. Nice macro work. Better than most I've seen. Awesome sauce, dude :)

rdpx
02-08-2013, 08:04 PM
CC - no customs duty at all. Koki marked package as "$20, gift, kitchen tool" ;)

Benuser - I am not sure about the heel edge, but as you should be able to see from a couple of the photos, right at the end it is 100/0. Looks like it wasn't quite finished properly. Maybe this is usual?

Photo questions... I am very happy that you all like the pics. It's kind of what I do for a living, so even though these were only taken with a p/s digicam (Canon S90) I still know how to get the best out of it. As I said next week I may take some more with a proper camera etc, see if they can get any better!

The first few (whole knife) were just taken under diffused daylight through a large skylight on our white corian kitchen surface. Camera pretty much just set to auto. For the super macro stuff (the ones with the very shallow depth of field) I put the camera into manual focus mode with the focus dialled down as near as possible, and lit them with a "Grafilite" daylight lamp (used for viewing prints) and then shot through an 8x loupe. As focus was fixed I fine tuned it by just moving the camera in and out until I found best focus. The round ones are at the shortest lens setting cropped so you can't see the inside of the loupe, and the other super macro ones were with the zoom at max (x3.8) which cut that out and so got a little closer in. I had ISO set at 80 and left the rest all auto, maybe stopped down or up slightly depending. The files are pretty much straight from camera, with very slight curves and sharpening added in PS> (I am far better at sharpening photographs than I am sharpening knives.)

If you right click on the images and select "open image in new window" you can see them larger than they are here [Most of them are about 1000x wide or high.]

franzb69
02-09-2013, 01:06 AM
lovely pictures. =D

if only they came in wa. got way too many western handled knives as it is. lol.

brainsausage
02-09-2013, 01:16 AM
Very nice pix indeed. About your concern regarding the edge near the heel: are you sure it is not the blade getting thicker? In which case forcing a visually even bevel could cause an overgrind.

Can you elaborate more on this? It's something I've been struggling with in regards to keeping a consistent bevel. I'm now worried I'm over grinding a lot of my heels... Don't mean to derail the thread btw, sorry...

Johnny.B.Good
02-09-2013, 01:42 AM
This is the best "first purchase" update thread I've ever seen. Fantastic photographs!

Glad you're pleased with your new knife. What does your girlfriend think of it?

The first purchase decision is difficult, the second much easier, and the third even easier still. ;)

Mitbud
02-09-2013, 02:17 AM
I think many here would love a tutorial from you on how to get such great shots of their knives. Great work with such simple tools.

Benuser
02-09-2013, 07:02 AM
The OP convinced me there was a small part at the heel that is actually unsharpened. But in general, it's quite dangerous to look just for an even bevel and ignore the distal taper. Take a micometer. And when sharpening, stop when the burr has been raised and ignore cosmetics.
Can you elaborate more on this? It's something I've been struggling with in regards to keeping a consistent bevel. I'm now worried I'm over grinding a lot of my heels... Don't mean to derail the thread btw, sorry...

Cadillac J
02-09-2013, 02:44 PM
I'm glad you are happy with your first purchase! As others have noted, your pictures are excellent -- I wish I had a decent camera and the skills to take some macros of my 240 CN, so that you could see the difference between the geometry of a stock vs thinned out blade.

Once you get sharpening down, I promise you'll appreciate that knife even more. I have both thinner and heftier knives, but the Carbonext is a great sweet spot right in the middle...what I would use if I cooked in a pro kitchen for a living.

labor of love
02-09-2013, 08:43 PM
the kikuichi TKC just increased in price. the 270mm gyuto went from $199 to $239. thats almost $100 more than the carbonext in the same size. ill definitely take the carbonext.

franzb69
02-10-2013, 01:40 AM
kikuichi vs carbonext price for value, carbonext for me also.

rdpx
02-11-2013, 01:14 PM
I think many here would love a tutorial from you on how to get such great shots of their knives. Great work with such simple tools.

Hi Mitbud,

I don't really know that there is much to say, but I shall try.

The photos were taken on a small Canon S90. This is a point and shoot pocket camera that has the ability to manual focus and also to set your own ISO and adjust exposure by a couple of stops either way. What I did was simply to put the camera into manual focus mode and focus it down as close as is possible, and then leave it there. I also used an 8X loupe, and basically just held the loupe right in front of the lens. Focusing was done by simply moving the camera/loupe towards and away from the knife until the focus was where I wanted it [or as near as dammit]. The ISO was set to the lowest setting (80 in this case - basically* the lower the number the higher quality the files will be). The quality of the light is also very important in getting good photographs. The light I used was a small desktop print viewing lamp, which puts out a daylight balanced light. The knife was probably about 8 inches away from the light source. [Taking photos under normal household lights lends a reddish tinge to shots.] Most people wont have one of these lights, so perhaps you could try a good light from a window (not direct light - diffuse, or northern light is best) and use white paper to reflect more light on to the knife, and/or to use as background (lack of background distractions also helps)

If you don't have a camera that you can set to manual focus, you can probably do it with auto focus, but it will involve trial and error and is more annoying I imagine.

It's not that hard really - main thing is to make sure it is well lit and be aware of what the reflections on the blade/edge are doing. Also take lots of photos, and edit down to your best ones. Experiment! Look forward to seeing some results, and happy to offer advice if you have any questions.

R

Zwiefel
02-11-2013, 10:43 PM
Exceptional photos. Nice knife too :)

zitangy
02-12-2013, 02:36 AM
Hi Mitbud,


It's not that hard really - main thing is to make sure it is well lit and be aware of what the reflections on the blade/edge are doing. Also take lots of photos, and edit down to your best ones. Experiment! Look forward to seeing some results, and happy to offer advice if you have any questions.

R

Excellent pics. IF you apply the same level creativity and experimentation to achieve the desired outcome in sharpening, I am sure it will be more than a respectable outcome.
Have fun
D

Mitbud
02-12-2013, 07:29 PM
Hi Mitbud,

I don't really know that there is much to say, but I shall try.

The photos were taken on a small Canon S90. This is a point and shoot pocket camera that has the ability to manual focus and also to set your own ISO and adjust exposure by a couple of stops either way. What I did was simply to put the camera into manual focus mode and focus it down as close as is possible, and then leave it there. I also used an 8X loupe, and basically just held the loupe right in front of the lens. Focusing was done by simply moving the camera/loupe towards and away from the knife until the focus was where I wanted it [or as near as dammit]. The ISO was set to the lowest setting (80 in this case - basically* the lower the number the higher quality the files will be). The quality of the light is also very important in getting good photographs. The light I used was a small desktop print viewing lamp, which puts out a daylight balanced light. The knife was probably about 8 inches away from the light source. [Taking photos under normal household lights lends a reddish tinge to shots.] Most people wont have one of these lights, so perhaps you could try a good light from a window (not direct light - diffuse, or northern light is best) and use white paper to reflect more light on to the knife, and/or to use as background (lack of background distractions also helps)

If you don't have a camera that you can set to manual focus, you can probably do it with auto focus, but it will involve trial and error and is more annoying I imagine.

It's not that hard really - main thing is to make sure it is well lit and be aware of what the reflections on the blade/edge are doing. Also take lots of photos, and edit down to your best ones. Experiment! Look forward to seeing some results, and happy to offer advice if you have any questions.

R

Thanks!

The shot that stood out was of the choil, showing the grind marks and the asymmetry of the edge. It shows
clearly two things I want to know about a knife.

Notaskinnychef
02-12-2013, 07:56 PM
well done OP, I am also quite pleased with my CN, as it was my first purchase too. I opted for their ES (extra sharpness) option for 10 bucks due to my newbness in sharpening. I could easily shave my arm with it after using it for a month (home kitchen, not a pro). Frankly I was so impressed with being able to do that that I had some substantial bald spot on my arms. Sadly I am a hair brute and thus folicular crop circles were quite noticeable lol

TDj
04-10-2014, 01:24 PM
Hey all, it has been quite the while since I've been around these parts. Sorry for the absence. Over the last year or so, have there been any better knives-for-the-price than Carbonext in terms of semi-stainless (or stainless), relatively thin knives? I'm back in the market for a knife for a friend who's an enthusiastic home cook, so I'm hoping these are still the bee's knees for the price.

ThEoRy
04-10-2014, 09:28 PM
Just get it. It's basically a TKC clone. Just needs a little attention at first to set up the edge.

keithsaltydog
04-10-2014, 11:47 PM
I was impressed with the steel in the Carbonext. I thinned behind the edge & was able to get it very sharp.Was not hard at all to raise a burr.Holds a decent edge. Put a nice burl handle & sold it to a cook friend. He has been using it at work.

Lizzardborn
04-11-2014, 02:19 AM
The problem I have with my CN is that after sharpening (not quite skillful) to 4000 the cutting goes like that you don't feel the first few millimeters then you hit a brick wall with friction/wedging on carrots.

But the sharpening process was very easy.

Benuser
04-11-2014, 02:30 AM
Does the knife steer perhaps?

Lizzardborn
04-11-2014, 02:56 AM
I have no experience with quality knives (or kitchen at all) so can you please give more context about what steering is and how to be detected.

Benuser
04-11-2014, 03:03 AM
I you hold the knife with a lose grip, and cut into a piece of copy paper, does it cut straight, or does it make a curve?

Lizzardborn
04-11-2014, 03:12 AM
Slight curve at the beginning then straightens out the cut.

Benuser
04-11-2014, 03:26 AM
The CN isn't especially thick behind the edge, so carrots shouldn't be a problem. What you describe may be caused by improper sharpening, by not respecting the blade's asymmetry.

Lizzardborn
04-11-2014, 04:28 AM
It is 60/40 - so the more of the included angle is on the side that is left when you hold it normal right?

Benuser
04-11-2014, 05:19 AM
The proportion 60/40 does not refer to the angles but to the degree to which the edge is off-centered. A 50/50 has the edge in the center, a 90/10 has the edge very strongly off-centered to the left, with an almost imperceptible left bevel.
Normally one would advise to stick with the factory edge, and only change it when an improvement is wanted. You may follow the factory edge with the sharpie trick, or by verifying the scratch pattern.
Without handling the blade I can't tell you how the angles will turn out. Common values though are some 10-12 degree right, and some 15-17 degree left. This is a reasonable starting point. If still steering or wedging occur you may change accordingly, by thinning one or both sides and change the angles and the bevel size. See post nr 109 by Geo87.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/5656-Asymmetry--The-REAL-DEAL