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View Full Version : Why is this guy a knucklehead?



Zwiefel
02-15-2013, 12:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2z7T77_baI&feature=player_embedded

Thought I'd start a separate thread to ask these questions...

His knife skills seem to be about the same as mine...I don't claim to be an NaCl-Hound or a new CoNjEcTuRe though....

I'm a bit confused about the criticism of this video. I don't think I've seen anything else by this guy though, so maybe there is some kind of history I'm missing. It is a bit of a love-fest though...surely there is _something_ critical he could mention...no product is perfect. But AFAICT, he isn't saying anything that's untrue...maybe there are some things that are a matter of opinion/taste that some of you disagree with?

These are honest questions...I feel like there's something you guys know that I'm missing here. Well, you guys know an awful lot that I'm missing, which is why I spend so much time on this forum...but specifically in this video :)

Lefty
02-15-2013, 01:10 PM
I think it's largely to do with the fact that it's a review done for a specific seller. It's advertising at its finest. HOWEVER, I wrote a review for a Snyder I sold, so I'm as guilty as anyone. With that being said, I wouldn't have sold it if I didn't stand behind my comments.

Also, the reviewer seems a bit afraid of the knife, which likely has people doubting his "credentials". A huge part of anything is being convincing with your opinions. All in all, however, I don't think he's a knucklehead, but more likely a home user/fanatic who gets to test knives for Mark, which would be a pretty sweet gig.

labor of love
02-15-2013, 01:17 PM
the keyword here is that it is ADVERTISING.

mainaman
02-15-2013, 01:34 PM
The guy is cutting whole potatoes and say no sticktion, well half potato of this size probably not stick too easy, try cuts like Salty does in his vids then you will prove no sticktion. I don't know if you can hear but the knife wedges on the potatoes, it does not cut them all the way it splits them.
Then the claim of falling trough food, is all well but he uses the tip of the knife, notice how there is a bit of a problem with that when he is using the middle of the knife?
And then he uses excuse that the board can mess up the edge, is this a review or what?

For me this not about the skill , it is about what he is saying, as Dave said this is a commercial not a review. A review can't be objective without pointing any negatives, we all know there is no perfect knife out there. The punch line for me was "tip flies trough anything, it is an awesome knife" , I was not aware that knives have only tip and handle.

Zwiefel
02-15-2013, 02:14 PM
I think it's largely to do with the fact that it's a review done for a specific seller. It's advertising at its finest. HOWEVER, I wrote a review for a Snyder I sold, so I'm as guilty as anyone. With that being said, I wouldn't have sold it if I didn't stand behind my comments.

Also, the reviewer seems a bit afraid of the knife, which likely has people doubting his "credentials". A huge part of anything is being convincing with your opinions. All in all, however, I don't think he's a knucklehead, but more likely a home user/fanatic who gets to test knives for Mark, which would be a pretty sweet gig.


the keyword here is that it is ADVERTISING.

It's definitely a kind of love letter...and if he's being compensated (in any sense), he should disclose that. Very fair comments.

I did find his comments about not "knowing where the edge is until you sharpen it" to be ridiculous. It doesn't vary that much between knives of a given type...but to the extent there is something to adjust to, you do that by using it, not by sharpening it.


The guy is cutting whole potatoes and say no sticktion, well half potato of this size probably not stick too easy, try cuts like Salty does in his vids then you will prove no sticktion. I don't know if you can hear but the knife wedges on the potatoes, it does not cut them all the way it splits them.
Then the claim of falling trough food, is all well but he uses the tip of the knife, notice how there is a bit of a problem with that when he is using the middle of the knife?
And then he uses excuse that the board can mess up the edge, is this a review or what?

For me this not about the skill , it is about what he is saying, as Dave said this is a commercial not a review. A review can't be objective without pointing any negatives, we all know there is no perfect knife out there. The punch line for me was "tip flies trough anything, it is an awesome knife" , I was not aware that knives have only tip and handle.

OK, these were some of the things I noticed as well. I thought I could hear the potato snap when he was about 1/2 through it, but wasn't sure. And yes, claiming no stiction on 1/2 a potato is just silly....and is disproven to some extent by what happens with the onion later.

making a claim about the tip is fine...but obviously his observations should be more expansive than that.

Seems like I noticed some of the things you guys did....but didn't give my opinion/knowledge any credit. And maybe there is other context here, like other reviews this guy did, and some history with the vendor who supplies the products.

Lefty
02-15-2013, 02:22 PM
Yeah, it definitely split the potato, and the sticktion thing is a bit much. It is what it is.

chinacats
02-15-2013, 02:34 PM
I wouldn't have sold it if I didn't stand behind my comments.


That sir is the difference...and the fact that you willingly call advertising what it is.
Cheers!

Dave Martell
02-15-2013, 03:04 PM
If I recall correctly this guy came along and got himself quickly noticed for doing videos showcasing knives sold by that vendor. I recall the vendor sending him more knives to "check out" which he then just so happened to make more videos on and became an instant expert. These two folks built up a partnership of sorts, the vendor looking to use someone for cheap advertising, and this guy looking to be used (for whatever reason) - the perfect symbiotic relationship was formed.

Is he a knucklehead for doing this stuff? I think so, yes. To me he seems like someone who needs attention and wants to belong to something so badly that he's willing to do anything including making himself appear to be someone's lackey. I've never acted like that so for me he seems like a knucklehead for having done so. He is what he shows us that he is and that's all I have to say on that. :)

Paradox
02-15-2013, 04:05 PM
Zwiefel,

There is bad blood between the guy that owns the company that this guy is doing these videos for and some folks here on this forum. It goes back for quite some time as far as I can tell and the details are only really known to the principals. It's my understanding that the bad blood between them was the genesis for this forum to be created.

I have been involved in on-line communities going back to the late '80s early '90s with the old BBS scene even before the "Internet" was really even known to exist by most people. This group dynamic seems to be the only constant.

At some point there was an online community of knife enthusiasts. Anytime you have a forum like that, that is pretty close knit, some folks float to the top as leaders of the community. Something brought the friction between those guys to a point that they thought they had to split it up. Someone drew a line in the sand so to speak. People felt like they had to make a statement of allegiance and so some of them sided with folks here. Shaun, the guy in the video, went with Mark and the folks that sided with him, Ken S. is another one of those guys who is more prominent on the net. As a result you'll see them disparaged here as a routine response to what they do elsewhere on the net. I think more because they are on the other side of the line than what they do is actually deserving of disparaging remarks?

To those of us that have come along well after the dust up it's clear that something is off but we just have to set it aside. At least I do, as I like being a part of all the knife forums I can.

bieniek
02-15-2013, 04:34 PM
Hes accent is annoying.

Am I the only one to see those huuuuuuuge bevels on a new j-knife?

knyfeknerd
02-15-2013, 04:44 PM
Zwiefel,

There is bad blood between the guy that owns the company that this guy is doing these videos for and some folks here on this forum. It goes back for quite some time as far as I can tell and the details are only really known to the principals. It's my understanding that the bad blood between them was the genesis for this forum to be created.

I have been involved in on-line communities going back to the late '80s early '90s with the old BBS scene even before the "Internet" was really even known to exist by most people. This group dynamic seems to be the only constant.

At some point there was an online community of knife enthusiasts. Anytime you have a forum like that, that is pretty close knit, some folks float to the top as leaders of the community. Something brought the friction between those guys to a point that they thought they had to split it up. Someone drew a line in the sand so to speak. People felt like they had to make a statement of allegiance and so some of them sided with folks here. Shaun, the guy in the video, went with Mark and the folks that sided with him, Ken S. is another one of those guys who is more prominent on the net. As a result you'll see them disparaged here as a routine response to what they do elsewhere on the net. I think more because they are on the other side of the line than what they do is actually deserving of disparaging remarks?

To those of us that have come along well after the dust up it's clear that something is off but we just have to set it aside. At least I do, as I like being a part of all the knife forums I can.
I came along well after "the dust had cleared". I have spent a ton of my $$$ with Mr. R. Until I received this super-bobo knife from him, I had been seen singing his praises on the old forum. I didn't understand why there were 2 sides, but now I do, and I know I'm on the right one.
NONE of the vendors, makers or hobbyist/craftsmen on KKF would ever dare to pass off a knife like this to ANY customer, much less one who had already spent thousands of dollars with them.
You guys here are solid individuals who do this out of love for the craft, not the love of money or hoarding of knives.
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/landon_chris/kniffs/IMG_4629.jpg


Seriously, how would you feel if this was your brand new knife?

BOO-YAHHHH!!!!

labor of love
02-15-2013, 04:45 PM
mark refers to shawn aka knife fanatic as his business partner, so he is definitely "on his payroll" no question about it. i think those guys intentionally prey on j knife noobs with videos like this too.

Zwiefel
02-15-2013, 04:47 PM
Zwiefel,

There is bad blood between the guy that owns the company that this guy is doing these videos for and some folks here on this forum. It goes back for quite some time as far as I can tell and the details are only really known to the principals. It's my understanding that the bad blood between them was the genesis for this forum to be created.

I have been involved in on-line communities going back to the late '80s early '90s with the old BBS scene even before the "Internet" was really even known to exist by most people. This group dynamic seems to be the only constant.

At some point there was an online community of knife enthusiasts. Anytime you have a forum like that, that is pretty close knit, some folks float to the top as leaders of the community. Something brought the friction between those guys to a point that they thought they had to split it up. Someone drew a line in the sand so to speak. People felt like they had to make a statement of allegiance and so some of them sided with folks here. Shaun, the guy in the video, went with Mark and the folks that sided with him, Ken S. is another one of those guys who is more prominent on the net. As a result you'll see them disparaged here as a routine response to what they do elsewhere on the net. I think more because they are on the other side of the line than what they do is actually deserving of disparaging remarks?

To those of us that have come along well after the dust up it's clear that something is off but we just have to set it aside. At least I do, as I like being a part of all the knife forums I can.

That's exactly what I'm trying to separate with my questions (what's actually in the video vs all the other stuff)....as well as to learn something from what others observed. Seemed like a good teaching moment to me.

labor of love
02-15-2013, 04:47 PM
GeeeYooTow!

Zwiefel
02-15-2013, 04:56 PM
I came along well after "the dust had cleared". I have spent a ton of my $$$ with Mr. R. Until I received this super-bobo knife from him, I had been seen singing his praises on the old forum. I didn't understand why there were 2 sides, but now I do, and I know I'm on the right one.
NONE of the vendors, makers or hobbyist/craftsmen on KKF would ever dare to pass off a knife like this to ANY customer, much less one who had already spent thousands of dollars with them.
You guys here are solid individuals who do this out of love for the craft, not the love of money or hoarding of knives.
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/landon_chris/kniffs/IMG_4629.jpg


Seriously, how would you feel if this was your brand new knife?

BOO-YAHHHH!!!!

Yeah, I would be embarrassed to send a knife like that home with a friend....and I'm doing it for free....and I'm a noob. It would not be acceptable to not fix that (honestly, I don't think it's acceptable that it left the building)....esp b/c we know that they know better, unlike the guys down at the hardware store.

Good information for the larger question....and yet another reason I try to stick with the vendors on this forum.

I'm still kinda wowed by that set of photos. damn.

Paradox
02-15-2013, 04:57 PM
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/landon_chris/kniffs/IMG_4629.jpg


Seriously, how would you feel if this was your brand new knife?

BOO-YAHHHH!!!!

Seroiuosly? I'd really dislike it. I'd also give the guy a chance to make it right regardless of who it was.

chinacats
02-15-2013, 05:08 PM
I too came in after the bad blood split. Mark developed the 'bad blood' with me all by himself. Didn't help to read all the shining reviews elsewhere and see in real time the exact opposite. I too spent a nice little sum of money there only to be shat upon. Screw him and his crappy products; oh yeah, and his trolls too.

Cheers!

Oh and as to giving him the chance to make it right, he won't even acknowledge when there is a problem that he should've figured it out beforehand.

labor of love
02-15-2013, 05:09 PM
mark has screwed up my orders in the past, but i will admit he did a great job fixing the problems also. the issue with that knife and alot like it is they do have QC issues, and their products arent inspected before they ship.

knyfeknerd
02-15-2013, 05:17 PM
I do think his wife is very nice and sweet, I have nothing bad to say about her.
I'm sure Mr. R would've tried to remedy(no pun intended) the situation, but I just decided it was better to be done with the whole thing. I ended up giving the knife away later anyway.
Just another lesson learned.
I wish we could all be united as one forum, but business like this is why Dave doesn't have him around.

rdpx
02-15-2013, 05:22 PM
Seriously, how would you feel if this was your brand new knife?


Yeah really, I mean it doesn't even have a handle. Pfft!


:eyebrow:
[ok so tell me what's really wrong with it?]

Paradox
02-15-2013, 05:25 PM
Awesome! The hive-mind speaks, I was pretty sure it would go this way when I spoke up. ;) Oh well. Now I'm one of Mark's trolls simply because I'm willing to call a spade a spade. Sorry to say, you could not be further from the truth.

Poor behavior on an others part is never good cause for poor behavior on my part.

If you buy a product from anyone that isn't the way it should be and you don't make them correct it then you are the one at fault.

Salty dog
02-15-2013, 05:33 PM
If your customers arrive at your business in a limousine you'll go home in a bus. If your customers arrive in a bus you'll go home in a limousine. I think that's his philosophy on some of his knife lines.

mhlee
02-15-2013, 05:35 PM
Yeah really, I mean it doesn't even have a handle. Pfft!


:eyebrow:
[ok so tell me what's really wrong with it?]

Based on this picture, the initial bevel is completely messed up. It's inconsistent from heel (it doesn't even get to the heel) to the tip. You can tell based on the multiple reflections in the bevel that it was sharpened on multiple stones at different angles. Even worse, it appears that there could be an overgrind toward the heel because it looks the bevel flattens out toward the heel and this appears to correspond with a flat grind on the face of the blade.

Also, the grind seems to be inconsistent. It's about halfway up toward the heel, and then appears to dip closer to the edge toward the tip. The finish is also inconsistent. It looks like it was attempted to have a mirror polish toward the heel, but the tip is more of a satin finish.

labor of love
02-15-2013, 05:35 PM
Yeah really, I mean it doesn't even have a handle. Pfft!


:eyebrow:
[ok so tell me what's really wrong with it?]
it doesnt even look like the bevel even extends to heel. this series passes through the hands of both shawn and mark before its shipped too.

labor of love
02-15-2013, 05:43 PM
If you buy a product from anyone that isn't the way it should be and you don't make them correct it then you are the one at fault.
i think mark might be banking on this actually, it more profitable and noobs wouldnt know the difference. i wouldnt have noticed the flaws with the edge 2 years ago.

knyfeknerd
02-15-2013, 05:45 PM
Awesome! The hive-mind speaks, I was pretty sure it would go this way when I spoke up. ;) Oh well. Now I'm one of Mark's trolls simply because I'm willing to call a spade a spade. Sorry to say, you could not be further from the truth.

Poor behavior on an others part is never good cause for poor behavior on my part.

If you buy a product from anyone that isn't the way it should be and you don't make them correct it then you are the one at fault.
Seriously, I'm being honest about my crap knife and you're being douchey and telling me I'm wrong?
Sorry for MY "poor behavior".
Sure I'll be the one at fault, but the lesson learned is a good one, and I don't want any other forum members to make it.

chinacats
02-15-2013, 05:50 PM
I tried to do a return and was told there would be a restocking fee...for a piss ass product? Labor of love is correct, this is what he is banking on--literally.

I didn't burn the bridge, though I will gladly pour gasoline on it once it's started.

Anyone say moritaka? :D

Cheers!

Leave it to Knerd to be an adult--thanks man, I can't help myself--glad you're here.

knyfeknerd
02-15-2013, 06:11 PM
Sorry for taking offense Paradox. I don't want to turn you off from KKF. We are all entitled to our opinions. We also have the right to get grumpy! This isn't the 1st time for me!
Cheers, if you didn't live so far away, I'd buy you a beer or a lapdance!

Zwiefel
02-15-2013, 06:16 PM
I really wasn't trying to dredge up the history of all of this, I was only after some discussion about the video content and the responses to it. But it does help me understand the emotional content of some of the posts.

I would certainly be rather unhappy if faced with some of the behavior you guys describe.

Have a good weekend guys!

mhlee
02-15-2013, 06:17 PM
Sorry to say, you could not be further from the truth.

If you buy a product from anyone that isn't the way it should be and you don't make them correct it then you are the one at fault.

????

First, if you had a good experience with him, then I'm happy for you. But, please don't make generalizations on his behalf because there are a number of members here, including me, who have received poor customer service from him on multiple occasions, especially knives that did not meet the quality standards he represented.

Second, your point about making the retailer correct the problem - that's not how the law works. Generally, a retailer is liable for the sale of any defective product, along with the manufacturer. A retailer is legally obligated to sell non-defective products and is legally liable for any defective products sold. (In some states, the seller is equally liable as the manufacturer.)

Third, your point assumes that the buyer should know that the product he/she is purchasing is supposed to be a certain way from the start and it's the buyer's fault if they don't recognize the problem and then make the retailer correct it. Again, that's not how the law works. (Frankly, I don't think you would appreciate being in that position if you bought a car, for example, and the dealer took that position with you, e.g., "Oh, you didn't know this car had a problem with its cruise control and that you're not going to be able to stop once at highway speeds, but it's your responsibility to make the retailer correct it and you're at fault for your major crash.") Is the buyer supposed to be completely knowledgeable of exactly how everything they buy is supposed to be made and able to detect even the smallest problem and it's their responsibility if they don't notice it and ask for a correction?

Fourth, a number of members had issues with knives bought from him and asked him to correct it. In my case, he told me to deal with the maker (twice for two different problems on the same knife) and was not willing to do anything until I sent him back a knife and demanded a refund. (From what I've read, I'm not the only one who's experienced this tactic.) Again, under general US law, the retailer is responsible for remedying such problems and, in my case, he refused to do so. (Mind you, I also paid for return shipping twice out of my own pocket. So, I ultimately ended up with no knife, and about $50 in postage charges - it was a rather expensive knife - because of problems with things he sold.)

So, please don't make broad generalizations and assumptions. Please also stop acting like you're the President of the Truth Club and voice of reason.

Please keep buying stuff from that site. But, if you happen to get a knife that's messed up, don't come crying here for our sympathy or assistance. And, good luck finding someone to fix it.

P.S. - FWIW, I don't know either Knyfeknerd or Chinacats in person. In fact, I don't believe I've even ever messaged them here or on any other forum.

Patatas Bravas
02-15-2013, 06:18 PM
Hes accent is annoying.
Haha yes it's true!

skiajl6297
02-15-2013, 06:21 PM
I will not attempt to totally derail this thread since I am such a newbie to this forum, but can we quickly discuss how a buyer newbie (such as myself) might attempt to fix a knife like the example given by knerd in the event we bought it? Would it be possible?

In the photo, I see what mhlee is referring to - the bevel is inconsistent, doesn't reach the heel, thicker and then thinner from heel to tip, etc. What can one glean from the way the reflection of the light separates as it goes from heel to tip? Is this indicative of over or undergrind? Camera flash? Imagined?

As always, appreciate the insight and time invested in newbies. My first thought when I looked at that knife was oh crap, whats wrong with it, and why doesn't the screamingly obvious error scream at me like it does to everyone else in this forum.

Paradox
02-15-2013, 06:24 PM
Sorry for taking offense Paradox. I don't want to turn you off from KKF. We are all entitled to our opinions. We also have the right to get grumpy! This isn't the 1st time for me!
Cheers, if you didn't live so far away, I'd buy you a beer or a lapdance!

I'm not turned off of KKF. There is a lot great stuff here sometimes you just have to put aside the childish crap to get to it. You find that on almost every forum on the internet though.

I'm still not really clear on your specific issue, did you try to have it made right? Regardless of who the vendor is, if you didn't give the vendor a chance to make it right then you just don't really have a leg to stand on in my book when you trash them for it. If you think that makes me being douchey to you.. Oh well. Won't be the first time for that on the internet either. ;)

knyfeknerd
02-15-2013, 06:30 PM
I'm revoking the lapdance offer.
And the beer will be Miwaukee's Best Ice.

mhlee
02-15-2013, 06:33 PM
I will not attempt to totally derail this thread since I am such a newbie to this forum, but can we quickly discuss how a buyer newbie (such as myself) might attempt to fix a knife like the example given by knerd in the event we bought it? Would it be possible?

In the photo, I see what mhlee is referring to - the bevel is inconsistent, doesn't reach the heel, thicker and then thinner from heel to tip, etc. What can one glean from the way the reflection of the light separates as it goes from heel to tip? Is this indicative of over or undergrind? Camera flash? Imagined?

As always, appreciate the insight and time invested in newbies. My first thought when I looked at that knife was oh crap, whats wrong with it, and why doesn't the screamingly obvious error scream at me like it does to everyone else in this forum.

These were just my observations and I am, by no means, even close to as knowledgeable about knives are as others. But, what I'll communicate is what I've learned based on my own experiences and from taking with others who are much more knowledgeable than me.

If the grind is consistent, then the bevel can be fixed by sharpening. It could have been just a bad sharpening job. But, if the grind is bad and there is an overgrind, how bad of an overgrind will determine whether it can be repaired. If it is a small overgrind, I believe that you can potentially regrind the face of the knife to make it consistent, i.e. essentially a thinning job on the face of the knife. But, that's a BIG job. If it's a bad overgrind, there may be nothing you can do about it, e.g. Moritakas.

You're definitely right that some of the issues could simply be a product of the photo. (I thought the same myself, and was the reason why I said that there appear/seem to be problems with the grind.)

mhlee
02-15-2013, 06:35 PM
I'm revoking the lapdance offer.
And the beer will be Miwaukee's Best Ice.

BEST. RESPONSE. EVER.

knyfeknerd
02-15-2013, 06:38 PM
It's not the photo
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/landon_chris/kniffs/IMG_4634.jpghttp://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/landon_chris/kniffs/IMG_4632.jpghttp://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj640/landon_chris/kniffs/IMG_4631.jpg
Overgrind issue and really really awful sharpening job from the guy in the video.

knyfeknerd
02-15-2013, 06:40 PM
Dave, I know it isn't you birthday..........
......but :butbutbut::nutskick::dance::hbday:
Okay, I'm off this thread.
Peace

Paradox
02-15-2013, 06:42 PM
mhlee

The truth is that and there is no president for it as far as I know. It's certainly not me. GFY!

I'm sorry you had some bad experiences with Mark. Sounds like you did well to start shopping elsewhere.

Good luck!

ThEoRy
02-15-2013, 06:43 PM
13295

Crothcipt
02-15-2013, 06:45 PM
:spitcoffee::lmao:

stevenStefano
02-15-2013, 06:47 PM
If your customers arrive at your business in a limousine you'll go home in a bus. If your customers arrive in a bus you'll go home in a limousine. I think that's his philosophy on some of his knife lines.

Poetic

Crothcipt
02-15-2013, 06:54 PM
As for the opening thread. When you have a really sharp knife and it may stick in the board you wont need to push as hard as he does when he gets to the back of the blade. I'm sorry if doing a video you want to know exactly what you are getting in for. He should have cut with it before hand, and fixed it so he had no problems. I think he did sharpen it first, and is just using the person before as a scapegoat.

Zwiefel
02-15-2013, 06:57 PM
13295

I had to google this to understand the meme...wasn't familiar with the term "wabi-sabi"...nor it's apparent misuse.

Good work.

mhlee
02-15-2013, 07:01 PM
Ouch. I didn't notice the overgrind near the tip.

In those pictures, the bevel on the heel area seems to be more of a product of a thick grind, than overgrind? Am I seeing that correctly?

Lefty
02-15-2013, 07:13 PM
There's a decent chance the wavy bevel is purely inconsistencies in the blade's actual grind. I wouldn't be surprised if the knife has multiple overgrinds, and was sharpened on a jig, or sander with an angle set on it. With all if that being said, I've dealt with Mark a few times and I've always been pleased with the way things went about. I don't think he's out to screw anyone, but this is his way of making a living. It's a tough balancing act, and I'm glad I'm not directly involved with the situation.

As for how to fix this issue (which was asked), you'd have to fix the grind of the knife, by matching the high and low spots along the knife. In other words, you'd have to thin the whole knife, reset a bevel and start all over. It's a pain in the ass.

mr drinky
02-15-2013, 07:17 PM
Wow, the thread has gotten out of hand, so I am sure it will be locked fairly soon. Salty, great comment. I used to ride the hound.

Knyfe, I applaud the olive branch extended -- too bad that same branch was inserted into your back end.

k.

mhlee
02-15-2013, 07:18 PM
mhlee

The truth is that and there is no president for it as far as I know. It's certainly not me. GFY!

I'm sorry you had some bad experiences with Mark. Sounds like you did well to start shopping elsewhere.

Good luck!

What "truth" are you talking about now?

And yes, I am doing much better shopping elsewhere. That's why I'm here. My choice was not made because of emotion or "sides" - my choice was made based on the people who had/would sell me good products and provide good customer service.

stevenStefano
02-15-2013, 07:23 PM
Looking at the video, if it was impartial it would be a good video, but it most certainly isn't. This guy has his own line of knives for that vendor, so he is far from neutral. I some ways it is actually a pretty decent video, but it is flawed from the start because he is basically a salesman.

Von blewitt
02-15-2013, 07:47 PM
He also made a "review" video of his own knife

Salty dog
02-15-2013, 10:41 PM
Wow, the thread has gotten out of hand, so I am sure it will be locked fairly soon. Salty, great comment. I used to ride the hound.

Knyfe, I applaud the olive branch extended -- too bad that same branch was inserted into your back end.

k.

I stole it from Halston. Old people into fashion will know who that is.

mainaman
02-15-2013, 11:27 PM
He also made a "review" video of his own knife
Man he has made 74 vids so far, I just unlearned how to cut onions watching his "how to juliene onions" what a cringing experience.
I think he may get the record for most vids in the knuckelhead thread if more people see his stuff.

franzb69
02-15-2013, 11:59 PM
i love kkf. it gives me views from many sides. i've honestly haven't bought any knives from mark. i've bought practically from everyone else though. lol. i've bought stones though. i think the guy's only being mostly careful with his international buyers since there's gonna be the shipping problems for the most part.

heldentenor
02-16-2013, 12:09 AM
I will not attempt to totally derail this thread since I am such a newbie to this forum, but can we quickly discuss how a buyer newbie (such as myself) might attempt to fix a knife like the example given by knerd in the event we bought it? Would it be possible?

In the photo, I see what mhlee is referring to - the bevel is inconsistent, doesn't reach the heel, thicker and then thinner from heel to tip, etc. What can one glean from the way the reflection of the light separates as it goes from heel to tip? Is this indicative of over or undergrind? Camera flash? Imagined?

As always, appreciate the insight and time invested in newbies. My first thought when I looked at that knife was oh crap, whats wrong with it, and why doesn't the screamingly obvious error scream at me like it does to everyone else in this forum.

Send it to Dave or Jon. Or spend a lot of trial-and-error time on the stones trying to grind a single bevel out of the many, many bevels that currently comprise the "edge."

mr drinky
02-16-2013, 01:03 AM
I've bought things from Mark; I admit it. I even once sent a knife back to Dave in one of 'his' boxes as a joke. Sorry Dave.

I will say, though, that a lot of quality vendors here on this forum (HHH, Devin, Pierre, Harner) also sell through him. They don't get the fancy pumped up reviews, but I also recognize that it is another outlet for them to sell knives and make a living. I can't argue with a lot of what has been posted, but I also ask you to realize that in threads like this, amazing knife friends are having to hold their tongues and stay silent. I'm just saying.

Bad product is bad product. It should be fixed somehow. And crap reviews are another thing too. IMO one of the worst things to come out of the KF fiasco was that knife videos and reviews were commercialized. I no longer trust videos as much and would think twice before I would do one myself. The best knife videos were 3-6 years ago. The day Salty yanked his videos was one of the worst days for knife knuts -- and it has been replaced by what we have here.

k.

Zwiefel
02-16-2013, 01:16 AM
Well observed K, thanks for pointing that out.

Don Nguyen
02-16-2013, 01:50 AM
I've bought things from Mark; I admit it. I even once sent a knife back to Dave in one of 'his' boxes as a joke. Sorry Dave.

That is so awesome.

Crothcipt
02-16-2013, 08:49 PM
It's things like this that gets my goat. Many vids. out there the guy says one thing while something totally different is going on. For that reason I ended up coining the phrase I got off this book.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515CJsj8ywL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

Zwiefel
02-16-2013, 08:55 PM
That's a classic Southernism...I like it :)

rdm_magic
02-16-2013, 09:05 PM
Some interesting points of view here. I've never bought from Mark, I probably never will because he has pretty outrageous shipping charges, especially when I counter in that I'd possibly have to return a faulty item.

Does anyone think that perhaps one of the problems he has is that his company has grown too fast?

I understand the issues he has on the knife posted in this thread, but I do have to say, I don't feel its fair to judge a company on an issue if you don't tell them about it (leads back to my initial question, maybe hes just selling too many damn knives to keep up the QC)

Its just like in a restaurant, if you don't like the food, but you don't tell anyone, can you really complain about it?

I don't know, maybe I'm ignorant and most of the people who give him reviews are, but how can he get so many good reviews if he really has that poor a service?

I've sent him a number of tedious questions over the last twelve months. I've noticed his replies have gone from fairly in depth, helpful answers, to posting in a public forum, almost wanting other people to answer, to giving you one sentence answers purely of his opinion.

Zwiefel
02-16-2013, 09:33 PM
Some interesting points of view here. I've never bought from Mark, I probably never will because he has pretty outrageous shipping charges, especially when I counter in that I'd possibly have to return a faulty item.

Does anyone think that perhaps one of the problems he has is that his company has grown too fast?

I understand the issues he has on the knife posted in this thread, but I do have to say, I don't feel its fair to judge a company on an issue if you don't tell them about it (leads back to my initial question, maybe hes just selling too many damn knives to keep up the QC)

Its just like in a restaurant, if you don't like the food, but you don't tell anyone, can you really complain about it?

I don't know, maybe I'm ignorant and most of the people who give him reviews are, but how can he get so many good reviews if he really has that poor a service?

I've sent him a number of tedious questions over the last twelve months. I've noticed his replies have gone from fairly in depth, helpful answers, to posting in a public forum, almost wanting other people to answer, to giving you one sentence answers purely of his opinion.

I think the issue with the photos posted in this thread is that they are the result of the knife having been individually handled + sharpened. Not just taking a box off the shelf and shipping it. So the vendor already saw the knife and shipped it anyway. I think you do have a point though.

ecchef
02-16-2013, 11:35 PM
"Some interesting points of view here. I've never bought from Mark, I probably never will...."

I've sent him a number of tedious questions over the last twelve months. I've noticed his replies have gone from fairly in depth, helpful answers, to posting in a public forum, almost wanting other people to answer, to giving you one sentence answers purely of his opinion."

rdm, I don't imagine any vendor would be inclined to continue to provide detailed, personalized answers to "a number of tedious questions" asked over the course of a year without some kind of return on his time investment. Yet, you seem surprised?


"I don't know, maybe I'm ignorant and most of the people who give him reviews are..."

I'm not trying to sound condescending, but you may be on to something there....:scratchhead:
The point is that this guy is a "knucklehead" based on the observation that he is using a biased 'review' as advertising without disclosing his relationship with the vendor. Let's try to wrap this up if it's just going to devolve into an "us vs. them" argument.

mhlee
02-16-2013, 11:42 PM
I will say, though, that a lot of quality vendors here on this forum (HHH, Devin, Pierre, Harner) also sell through him. They don't get the fancy pumped up reviews, but I also recognize that it is another outlet for them to sell knives and make a living. I can't argue with a lot of what has been posted, but I also ask you to realize that in threads like this, amazing knife friends are having to hold their tongues and stay silent. I'm just saying.

Bad product is bad product. It should be fixed somehow. And crap reviews are another thing too. IMO one of the worst things to come out of the KF fiasco was that knife videos and reviews were commercialized. I no longer trust videos as much and would think twice before I would do one myself. The best knife videos were 3-6 years ago. The day Salty yanked his videos was one of the worst days for knife knuts -- and it has been replaced by what we have here.

k.

I too understand that a number of vendors here sell through him. And, I'm sure that some of the vendors here have had to deal with him when it comes to QC issues for their knives that were sold through his site.

When I'm ready to take the plunge to buy a knife from one of our makers, I'm going straight to the source. I personally hope that each and every vendor here has had more success selling directly to members than through this site by selling directly to customers than having him take his cut as the middleman.

And, I hope that each member here goes directly through the manufacturer here instead of through him. Might as well deal directly with the vendor, give them personal business and likely more profit.

As for videos, I don't even bother watching them anymore. Reviews? I only pay attention to the reviews of certain people. Who does the review has become more important than anything, IMHO.

mhlee
02-16-2013, 11:55 PM
"rdm, I don't imagine any vendor would be inclined to continue to provide detailed, personalized answers to "a number of tedious questions" asked over the course of a year without some kind of return on his time investment. Yet, you seem surprised?"

This response cracks me up because this response is so emblematic of people who give bad customer service and goes to the heart of this thread. And, ultimately, Mark likely lost a customer (rdm_magic) because he didn't want to keep answering rdm_magic's questions.

I'm in a service industry and I can't count how many times I've answered question after question for free. Over the course of a year? You bet. But, has it ultimately resulted in more business? You bet.

And, this is a major difference that I've personally experienced between him and the vendors I've dealt with here. We have MUCH better vendors who generally take LOTS of time answering questions. And, I've given my business to the people who have constantly answered the questions I've had, especially when I was starting out learning about knives and knew basically nothing.

So, to rdm_magic, hang around here for a while. Talk to the vendors here. Learn a lot, and buy some great knives. To the person who responded in that manner to rdm_magic's post, stay in that other forum. Do some videos for Mark. And stay out of customer service. You would be rather terrible at it.

franzb69
02-16-2013, 11:59 PM
makes me wonder if the guy that made the vid has already read about this thread. lol.

knyfeknerd
02-17-2013, 12:35 AM
Okay, I said I was out.....
....but let me clear something up.
I bought this knife probably 9 months ago. I sent an email to Mr. R that included the same pics I have shared with you guys. I told him about the overgrind and the horrendous "finishing" job by Mr. *********. I had already fixed the knife to my satisfaction at that time and told him I did not require any compensation, etc. I just wanted to make him aware of the issue/problem. He replied that he would "beat Shaun with a barber's strop" the next time he saw him, and I left it at that.
However, this guy still works for him. This guy even has his own line of knives distributed through the company. I have even seen other photos of his work that look equal to my knife that some people praise!
I leave the blame with Mr. R for trying to pass a knife like that on to anyone-ANYONE, whether they are a pro or a novice. THAT is a bad business practice.
I refuse to do business with this person because of this.
The original topic of this thread is "Why is this guy a knucklehead?"
I think my photos explained that.
If you don't believe me, send your honyaki (this is not directed toward anyone) to him for some sharpening.
I hope it doesn't meet Mr. belt sander.

Dave Martell
02-17-2013, 01:09 AM
My first thought when seeing this....."I wonder if his Mom knows what he's getting up to in her kitchen?" :D



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh8LZmVBrYw&list=UU-6H6bsZWcbeaPX2wU4pFjg&index=19

bieniek
02-17-2013, 09:19 AM
Its just like in a restaurant, if you don't like the food, but you don't tell anyone, can you really complain about it?


You dont need to complain, you just dont come back.

I dont find sense in that sentence. You meant food is great just not up to your taste or somethings wrong with it?

If I go to a restaurant, theres certain level of expectations already[compared to bistro/brasserie], if I get served stale bread you think I would complain over it? In the same place butter is disgustingly warm.
Is the chef a fool to overlook such a simple things?
No, he doesnt care, I like to think. In that case I dont come back. Ever again.

So ask yourself are you going to the restaurant and spend your money to teach them better, or to expect certain level of service?
Similarly, any vendor makes living from sales. That means he serves customers, be it answering questions, or checking products.

knyfeknerd
02-17-2013, 11:27 AM
You dont need to complain, you just dont come back.

I dont find sense in that sentence. You meant food is great just not up to your taste or somethings wrong with it?

If I go to a restaurant, theres certain level of expectations already[compared to bistro/brasserie], if I get served stale bread you think I would complain over it? In the same place butter is disgustingly warm.
Is the chef a fool to overlook such a simple things?
No, he doesnt care, I like to think. In that case I dont come back. Ever again.

So ask yourself are you going to the restaurant and spend your money to teach them better, or to expect certain level of service?
Similarly, any vendor makes living from sales. That means he serves customers, be it answering questions, or checking products.
+1
Well put.
Exactly how I feel about it.

ecchef
02-17-2013, 11:30 AM
This response cracks me up because this response is so emblematic of people who give bad customer service and goes to the heart of this thread.
To the person who responded in that manner to rdm_magic's post, stay in that other forum. Do some videos for Mark. And stay out of customer service. You would be rather terrible at it.

Really Michael? Do you know my customer service record? When you do, p.m. me and we can discuss it. Until then, try not to be so pretentious. Thanks.


Like I said, let's keep it on track.

ThEoRy
02-17-2013, 03:03 PM
makes me wonder if the guy that made the vid has already read about this thread. lol.

My Youtube analytic page shows me where my videos are embedded and are getting plays from as does his.

rdm_magic
02-17-2013, 07:34 PM
The point is that this guy is a "knucklehead" based on the observation that he is using a biased 'review' as advertising without disclosing his relationship with the vendor. Let's try to wrap this up if it's just going to devolve into an "us vs. them" argument.

I don't care what I'm asking you, if you're selling something and I'm even considering buying, you should be trying your damn hardest to make the sale. The fact that it make take a while to buy something shouldn't mean that I don't get good answers when I'm talking about placing a $600 order.


You dont need to complain, you just dont come back.

I dont find sense in that sentence. You meant food is great just not up to your taste or somethings wrong with it?

If I go to a restaurant, theres certain level of expectations already[compared to bistro/brasserie], if I get served stale bread you think I would complain over it? In the same place butter is disgustingly warm.
Is the chef a fool to overlook such a simple things?
No, he doesnt care, I like to think. In that case I dont come back. Ever again.

So ask yourself are you going to the restaurant and spend your money to teach them better, or to expect certain level of service?
Similarly, any vendor makes living from sales. That means he serves customers, be it answering questions, or checking products.

I'm talking about something being wrong with it. Your risotto is underseasoned, your steak is overcooked or whatever.

Maybe you never do go back, but if you don't inform someone you aren't happy, how can they improve?

Maybe the chefs a fool, maybe hes stupid. Maybe he thinks steaks should be served well done, maybe he thought his risotto was seasoned properly. If no-one ever tells him otherwise, he can't modify his behavior.

I stand by my statement that if you don't complain, or even mention an issue you have with something, be it a meal, a knife, a car, whatever, then you in turn can't complain to other people about it. Give someone a chance to fix a problem before you write them off.

Just maybe it was an honest mistake, and they would fix it in an instant.


Also, his page says that he is 'Powered by: Chef Knives To Go'. He has a link to the site on his page. He makes no secret that hes affiliated with the site IMO.

Dave Martell
02-18-2013, 12:14 AM
Let's not let those salesmen over there get between us good folks here....please. :)

chinacats
02-18-2013, 12:49 AM
Let's not let those salesmen over there get between us good folks here....please. :)

x2 They aren't worth it and this place rocks!

brainsausage
02-18-2013, 01:04 AM
x2 They aren't worth it and this place rocks!

Agreed. Lets put this to rest, and join together again in our mutual dislike of a certain Guy named Fieri:D

Zwiefel
02-18-2013, 01:13 AM
Agreed. Lets put this to rest, and join together again in our mutual dislike of a certain Guy named Fieri:D

Hey! Guy Fieri is F-ing awesome! He does awesome research to select only the most awesome places to take his awesome show! He takes all the awesome stuff he learns and uses it in his awesome Times Square restaurant in awesome New York City!

Dammit, I need to bleach my awesome hair and rent an awesome convertible!

brainsausage
02-18-2013, 01:47 AM
Hey! Guy Fieri is F-ing awesome! He does awesome research to select only the most awesome places to take his awesome show! He takes all the awesome stuff he learns and uses it in his awesome Times Square restaurant in awesome New York City!

Dammit, I need to bleach my awesome hair and rent an awesome convertible!

If you did something that awesome, it would be totally AWESOME! But only if you did it in the most EXTREMELY AWESOME , TOTALLY KICK A$$, WICKED RIGHTOUS manner! Otherwise, you'd just come off looking like a humongous D-bag. Wait- maybe I have that mixed up...

Paradox
02-18-2013, 04:20 AM
Now that's MONEY! :bigeek:

ThEoRy
02-18-2013, 04:35 AM
13393

Chef Doom
02-18-2013, 03:59 PM
mhlee

The truth is that and there is no president for it as far as I know. It's certainly not me. GFY!

I'm sorry you had some bad experiences with Mark. Sounds like you did well to start shopping elsewhere.

Good luck!

This is a clear sign of when a person is obviously losing an argument.

Drumjockey
02-18-2013, 04:59 PM
13393
This is the best part of this thread, and I read every post. Maybe Guy should have been chosen for Total Recall remake- at least the acting would have been better

brainsausage
02-18-2013, 05:02 PM
This is a clear sign of when a person is obviously losing an argument.

This is a clear sign of someone who's trying to perpetuate an argument. Give it a rest already.

ThEoRy
02-18-2013, 06:16 PM
This is the best part of this thread, and I read every post. Maybe Guy should have been chosen for Total Recall remake- at least the acting would have been better

I win the thread!!! :bliss: