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View Full Version : Microbevel on an asymmetric knife?



gic
02-16-2013, 06:16 AM
So I have decided to take my carbonext down to a bit more then 16 degrees while maintaining the 60/40 asymmetry, i.e roughly 10/7 I guess. I have seen some people say this is pretty close to the limit for a carbonext and in fact may be pushing it a wee bit. So, of course being a big fan of microbevels on my softer german and american made knives because that allowed me to bring them down to 15 degrees which is pretty much their limit, I was thinking I would put a microbevel on my thinned carbonext.

So my question is: do microbevels work as well on asymmetric knives as they do on symmetric knives?? Logically I don't see why they wouldn't but all the discussions of microbevels I have read was about using them on symmetric knives..

TIA

franzb69
02-16-2013, 06:23 AM
yes they do. just do a microbevel on the right side if you're right handed.

Benuser
02-16-2013, 06:30 AM
What do you mean by 10/7? Do you mean 7 degree right, Kanji side, and 10 degree back side?

gic
02-16-2013, 02:47 PM
I'd be following the angle proportions on the knife which I will measure with the magic marker trick on my edgepro using an edge cube.

gic
02-16-2013, 02:48 PM
Oh thank you so much, this was the information I couldn't find anywhere!

Benuser
02-16-2013, 03:58 PM
I'd be following the angle proportions on the knife which I will measure with the magic marker trick on my edgepro using an edge cube.
What do you mean by angle proportions? The degree of asymmetry gives an indication on how much the axis is off-centered, not on which angles you should use to achieve that.

gic
02-16-2013, 10:56 PM
In the end I was going to check the angle proportions OOB via the magic marker trick on an edge pro. Then I would reduce them proportionally which I assume will keep the same degree of asymmetry.

Still I just assume that if a knife is described as say 60/40 and the more angled side was 15, the lesser angle side would be 10, i.e. in a 60/40 ratio.

Is this not what is going on??

franzb69
02-16-2013, 11:01 PM
since you've thinned the knife behind the edge, it might not be the same proportions anymore. check it by eye and see what you think is going to work. trial and error really will work with this now. most of us has gone through something like this. so you'll just have to see what works best for you.

chinacats
02-17-2013, 01:19 AM
No offense, but this sure is easier when you just freehand sharpen/thin. You don't need to know or care what the exact angles are, just follow the geometry of the knife. :scratchhead:

gic
02-17-2013, 06:36 AM
Actually I haven't started the thinning process yet. Was trying to understand what it was I was trying to do first :- ) (Mostly because I was shocked to learn form some of the experienced peopel here that my Carbo was probably not made symmetrically and so making it symmetric would not be optimal....


since you've thinned the knife behind the edge, it might not be the same proportions anymore. check it by eye and see what you think is going to work. trial and error really will work with this now. most of us has gone through something like this. so you'll just have to see what works best for you.

gic
02-17-2013, 06:43 AM
Alas neither my muscle memory nor my fine motor skills are what they used to be. And while I could still eventually learn to freehand, I suspect it would take too long to learn to do it well at my age :- ).

Still since I'm really pleased with what kind of edges I am getting with my edgepro on my German and American made knives, I am slowly getting up enough courage (and knowledge) to start working on my good knives :- ). Luckily with the exception of the CarboNext all were sharp enough OOB so that I could keep them quite usable with a ceramic hone.

But now that I am comfortable with my edgepro, i want to take some of them to new heights (or more precisely to much lower angles)...


No offense, but this sure is easier when you just freehand sharpen/thin. You don't need to know or care what the exact angles are, just follow the geometry of the knife. :scratchhead:

franzb69
02-17-2013, 06:55 AM
one thing i learned when i damaged the tendons on my right hand when i was 18 and thought i would never be able to use my right hand again, as my tendons where separated because glass cut through three of my fingers.... persistence and practice. maybe it was just sheer luck and maybe a good doctor (i doubt the doctor part was true since the man who operated on me told the nurse wake him up in 3 hours as he was stilll to sleepy and wouldd not operate on me right then and there, even if he just came from home sleeping in his cozy bed).....

i regained all my hands mobility and dexterity after a year. even during recovery from said accident, i've had my right hand on a mouse and keyboard the whole time. well with the exception when my hand was still in a cast and still hurt. lol.

lost some feeling on my index finger and it hurts when it's cold but i still have full use of my hand.

anyway, what i'm trying to say.... persistence and patience is key. just keep at it, even an old dog can learn new tricks. specially at a day and age that in order to keep being in demand in the employment arena, one has to keep studying and keep learning or else you won't be desirable to employers.

=D

doesn't matter if you're 12 or a 120, you're already in the thick of things in the knife world. might as well go through it and take the plunge even further.

Benuser
02-17-2013, 06:58 AM
Still I just assume that if a knife is described as say 60/40 and the more angled side was 15, the lesser angle side would be 10, i.e. in a 60/40 ratio.

Is this not what is going on??

No, it's not, I'm afraid. The proportions give an idea about the amount of steel that is to get abraded in order to keep the edge off centered. You may do that with different pairs of angles. Common values are 10-12 degree right, 15-20 degree left. The larger left angle will enhance stability and reduce steering, but has almost no incidence on the performance.
Take a 60/40 statement with a grain of salt. Most of them are much more asymmetric. It isn't that important. All you have to do is keeping the edge in place.

Benuser
02-17-2013, 07:13 AM
since you've thinned the knife behind the edge, it might not be the same proportions anymore..
Thinning behind the edge won't change the place of the axis, so the degree of asymmetry will remain the same. To change asymmetry you will have to regrind the entire face and remove a lot of steel. Of course, if you remove .5mm from the entire left side the blade you will get a more asymmetric geometry.

Cadillac J
02-17-2013, 10:00 AM
OP, to better your understanding...all my knives are highly assymetrical, yet I use a similar/the same angle on both sides -- I don't purposely try to change the angle on each.

My Carbonext is probably at about 8-12 degrees per side, with the kanji/right side bevel blended into the blade (and the left side bevel is only 1mm or so high)

rdpx
02-17-2013, 11:06 AM
I just put a microbevel on my 210 CarboNext (thanks to Benuser for the advice) Here is a pic.... more detail on my CarboNext first sharpening advice thread, (http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/10682-CarboNext-first-sharpening-advice)which you may also find helpful?

http://i.imgur.com/vL6GzZQ.jpg

gic
02-17-2013, 06:32 PM
No, it's not, I'm afraid. The proportions give an idea about the amount of steel that is to get abraded in order to keep the edge off centered. You may do that with different pairs of angles. Common values are 10-12 degree right, 15-20 degree left. The larger left angle will enhance stability and reduce steering, but has almost no incidence on the performance.
Take a 60/40 statement with a grain of salt. Most of them are much more asymmetric. It isn't that important. All you have to do is keeping the edge in place.

So when I go to thin it I follow the following steps?

1. Measure the existing angles as made by the manufacturer OOB using the magic marker trick
2. Calculate the proportions (i.e. suppose OOB it was 10/15)
3. Grind in the same ratio at a lower angle to thin (roughly 7/10 with the numbers above)
4. Add a microbevel only on the "major" - right handed side?

TIA

ThEoRy
02-17-2013, 08:58 PM
I never knew rubbing metal against stone required so much calculation. :scratchhead:

gic
02-17-2013, 09:00 PM
Retired math teacher am I

:- )


I never knew rubbing metal against stone required so much calculation. :scratchhead:

stevenStefano
02-17-2013, 09:01 PM
Would it not be a lot easier to just sharpen one side?

ThEoRy
02-17-2013, 09:15 PM
Retired math teacher am I

:- )

Well that explains it. :lol2: Seriously though this whole edge pro business reeeaaallly over complicates things.