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View Full Version : Shigefusa Kasumi double bevel



bieniek
03-03-2013, 08:56 AM
Take this with a grain of salt. I am after some vodka-tonic-orange juice. And more of that up and coming.

This review took me so long cause I think actually it is so beautiful knife with romanticism about it that it is hard for me to criticize, even though there are few negativ things to point out.

The knives new is gorgeous. It really is. There are some blemishes on the finish, but if you compare it to other “handhandmade” Japanese knives, Shigefusa is level higher.

There is something awesome about an old man and two sons sitting there in their small workshop and spitting out these pieces of quality steel.

First impression? Tall blade, just where I like it. Lamination lines on both sides quite near the edge, I thought they would be made more dramatic and show more of the core, but not this time. I think there is a good reason for that, but what do I know [and like I want to know]?


The finish

Is overally very good. Nothing else to say. It is handmade, yet almost flawless.
Kind of one would expect the Kanji not to be stamped but oh well, it is a tool at the end of the day.
Choil and spine very nicely rounded, handle mounted expertly.
Yeah, I just got a quality product.



The Steel

Easy to work with.
If it is your first high end Japanese knife, might impress even more.
Not to say theres anything wrong with it, its solid.
But
Ive met minimum 3-4 knives where core steel is simply put - better.
Two cheaper without waiting time one roughly for same bucks but also available readily.

Ye ye I can hear those who say it is a work of angels and an art and all those bollocks but hey guys you buy a tool and I think the relation is simple: more expensive tool=better tool.

Better steel makes better tool. Aint it?

Same goes to the cladding. It definitely saves them money on the materials, or they use old iron from nails used to build shrinks and yeahh it is all cool gain some karma, but you sell a product.
Try harder.
On the other hand, thinning goes very fast, which is a huge plus for me. I am not going to say that again, or am I?, I love a not-stainless cladding for ease of maintenance, when it comes to thinning at least.
If you plan to use this knife extensively, good choice.
If you plan cutting a lot of onions, bad choice
You bought it to cut a tomato per month having hard-on? Best choice.


Feedback very very carbon. Love it. Awesome, so is

The edge

Very nice edge. I don’t sharpen chefs knives very high up in terms of grit, but when I tried, at the beginning, coming up to ohira range, knife got very sharp but for very short.

Loses wild edge quickly, but restoration is fast and both sharpening, honing and thinning are just fun to do [someone mentioned just two kinds of people in the world? ]


The Retention

Would stay sharp for a week during quite light use but as the only used chefs knife.
Not bad at all but at the end of the week there will be some microchipping.
And absolutely no juice left. Now that might not be a concern if you like to do this shamanism called touching up, but I don’t. I expect my edge to be there for me.

The Performance

Here is where you can easily fall for it. Its not like this knife fall through things. But the way it cuts makes you appreciate what you are doing. And somehow feel the produce.
It I a pleasure to work with that one, and theres not many things that will make a Shig surrender. Ultra thick carrots, yeah.
And one more thing. Because this knife is eager to rust and patina, you will have to smoothen those out or it will somehow decrease the cutting ability.

Anyway, because of

The Grind

Some produce, like carrots, will wedge.
Again, I am happy camper when nothing sticks to the blade.
Yes, and I mean just that. I am sick when I cut potato in half and the left half gets stuck to the side of the blade so bad that you have to stop what you do to try to somehow un-suck the piece of shite. This is what destroys all the fun for me and makes me stop cooking. I had one or two of these and they are no longer here.
You can say yeah its just potato but hey what about swede turnip, carrots lengthwise and so on so forth?!?!!?!?!

The Balance

Is perfect.
No getting used to.
There is something about this knife, a level of awesomeness when you hold it and cut with it. It is a joy and part of it is the balance that makes you feel that the tool helps you to accomplish the task.


The Reactivity

Up here, it gets nasty.
Shigefusa believers please turn your heads the other way.
It really is nasty. I worked a year to bring the stink down. I understand all this blah blah about using old stock metal and maybe some pins/nails used to build shrinks but hey I am a customer and I think I could expect them to use the best available material for the job.
This is very soft, and very reactive.
Big let down. Im cool with them using it for single bevel knives, but chefs knife works in totally different conditions imho…

The Conclusion

Make up what you want out of it, to sum it up I can tell you this much:
Big huge humongous yes to Shigefusa single bevels, but barely OK to the double bevels, cause you really can get better for that amount of money, if not two knives actually.
And that is not the case with single bevels. Theres no competition.
If you piss on the romantics, then this is a knife that could amaze you when cutting, and dissappoint you if not wiped right after use.


The finish 8++
The Steel 6
The edge 8-
The retention 6-
The performance 7 affected by the retention
The Grind 8
The balance 10
The reactivity 2- the cladding is terrible

Marko Tsourkan
03-03-2013, 09:03 AM
Pretty good review (and I am in agreement with your evaluation and conclusions). Thanks.

cclin
03-03-2013, 09:34 AM
.......Ive met minimum 3-4 knives where core steel is simply put - better.
Two cheaper without waiting time one roughly for same bucks but also available readily. .....

nice review!! I'm curious which are those knives???

Marko Tsourkan
03-03-2013, 09:43 AM
I want to add that core steel in Shigefusa is fairly simple carbon steel without alloys to give it much wear resistance. Hardening this steel to 63.5RC or so will improve edge holding by a little bit, but will introduce some brittleness, so microbevels might become a necessity at acute angle.

If you are referring to some of the Yoshikane knives as better alternatives, Yoshikane uses steel that is similar to A2. A2 has vanadium, so the wear resistance will be considerably better than simple carbon steels. Shigefusa will be easier to sharpen and will get sharper.

However, out of the two, Shigefusa is still the favorite, although for different reasons.

chinacats
03-03-2013, 11:10 AM
Good review and agreed. You get a new one or is this a review of the one you've had?

bieniek
03-03-2013, 01:44 PM
Pretty good review (and I am in agreement with your evaluation and conclusions). Thanks.

cheers ;)


If you are referring to some of the Yoshikane knives as better alternatives, Yoshikane uses steel that is similar to A2. A2 has vanadium, so the wear resistance will be considerably better than simple carbon steels. Shigefusa will be easier to sharpen and will get sharper.

Yes Yoshikane was one of them when it comes to steel not finish, but Im considering just carbon worth writing 'bout


nice review!! I'm curious which are those knives???

1. Kato
2. Yoshikane V2 bought at EE
3. Itinomonn Itonomonn or this something
4. Gesshin Ittetsu

when I come to think of it not sure if Zensho wouldnt beat Shig too?

Two or three examples come to my mind but not handmade laminates.


You get a new one

No this is for the 27cm chefs knife I have. Havent sold it.

Marko Tsourkan
03-03-2013, 01:56 PM
Zensho is Blue II steel. It has some tungsten, so the wear resistance would be better over simple carbon steels. V2 is similar to 50100 (a poor cousin to 52100). Other makers I don't know what steel they are using.

M

bieniek
03-03-2013, 02:03 PM
Both examples are 2x cheaper and cut better longer.

At the end of the day I dont care about tungsten, I want the product for 600 work better than product for 200. And it not even is about the retention itself.
Bottomline for me.

cclin
03-03-2013, 02:29 PM
I never use Kato /Itinomonn /Gesshin Ittetsu, can't comment on those knives. for overall cutting performance between Yoshikane(V2) and Shig(Swedish Carbon) My vote goes to Shigefusa easy!!:2cents:

wenus2
03-03-2013, 03:13 PM
Nice honest review!

If you plan to use this knife extensively, good choice.
If you plan cutting a lot of onions, bad choice
You bought it to cut a tomato per month having hard-on? Best choice.

LMFAO @ this

stevenStefano
03-03-2013, 07:37 PM
Nice review. There are so many knives that are very popular yet nobody has ever made a definitive review of them unfortunately

EdipisReks
03-03-2013, 09:06 PM
I found my Shig to be terribly reactive, when it had the stock finish, but after refinishing it several times, it became much less reactive. I've never tried a stock Shig, as mine was bought used and had been significantly thickened behind the edge, and I have mine very, very thin, heel to tip, and it cuts wonderfully. Keeps the edge well enough, but I'm not a professional chef. I go to 4k or 5k, followed by 1um boron loaded leather strop, with most of my kitchen knives.

brainsausage
03-03-2013, 10:06 PM
Always refreshing to hear your honest opinion Mike. I have to agree with your assessment btw- I played with passaround Shig earlier this year, and wasn't terribly impressed. I actually prefer your refurbed Ino TBO.

Nothing touches the Kato yet though:D Very curious what steel he's using...

Patatas Bravas
03-04-2013, 09:00 AM
Is the Shigefusa core steel very similar to Hitachi white #1 or #2. Sounds this is true after Bieniek's comments above.

bieniek
03-04-2013, 11:52 PM
I never use Kato /Itinomonn /Gesshin Ittetsu, can't comment on those knives. for overall cutting performance between Yoshikane(V2) and Shig(Swedish Carbon) My vote goes to Shigefusa easy!!:2cents:


Yeah because for some jobs Shig will outperform many other knives, if we talk cutting ease and feedback. But the V2 gets sharper. And the Yosh Ive used was very impressive[grind] - not that ugly finishing job

What about edges retention?

chinacats
03-05-2013, 12:06 AM
Yeah because for some jobs Shig will outperform many other knives, if we talk cutting ease and feedback. But the V2 gets sharper. And the Yosh Ive used was very impressive[grind] - not that ugly finishing job

What about edges retention?

I've only used V2 on a Kochi and I think I could get it at least as sharp as my Shig if not sharper but I think this is geometry related. I do think the Shig holds the edge a bit better than the Kochi (again my guess is geometry), though the Kochi was much less expensive knife. All that said, it's been a while since I had a Kochi so that is just my memory; seemed it needed a touch up about twice as often as my Shig. I think that V2 might be my favorite steel yet that I have owned.

I agree with others that Kato has changed my outlook on gyutos in general. I didn't use it long enough to get a feel for retention, but it was a cutting BEAST.

brainsausage
03-05-2013, 12:34 AM
I've only used V2 on a Kochi and I think I could get it at least as sharp as my Shig if not sharper but I think this is geometry related. I do think the Shig holds the edge a bit better than the Kochi (again my guess is geometry), though the Kochi was much less expensive knife. All that said, it's been a while since I had a Kochi so that is just my memory; seemed it needed a touch up about twice as often as my Shig. I think that V2 might be my favorite steel yet that I have owned.

I agree with others that Kato has changed my outlook on gyutos in general. I didn't use it long enough to get a feel for retention, but it was a cutting BEAST.

The retention is great on mine. I'm still constantly amazed by it overall. And to quote Mike(Bienek)- I'm not a shill for Maksim. Just really impressed with how the Kato feels and performs overall. I do really want to give a kochi a try now though, some folks I respect on here keep saying it's a performer. And I'll probably be spending my end of summer loyalty bonus on whatever Marko has in development come August. I feel like he's analyzing all these other knives we keep talking about and constantly creating a better gyuto. He's like a mixture of Michealangelo and Stephen Hawking...

cclin
03-05-2013, 02:00 AM
Yeah because for some jobs Shig will outperform many other knives, if we talk cutting ease and feedback. But the V2 gets sharper. And the Yosh Ive used was very impressive[grind] - not that ugly finishing job

What about edges retention?

V2 steel is very easy to sharping and take super keen edge! However, I couldn't get V2 sharper than Shig... from my experience, the Shigefusa seems to hold a better edge!! for the edge retention, IMO, Shigefusa kitaji > Shig kasumi > Yoshikane V2(better HT than Kochi V2??:dontknow:) > Kochi V2. but, Kochi V2 cutting performance is better than Yoshikane V2:knife:

labor of love
03-05-2013, 02:27 AM
V2 steel is very easy to sharping and take super keen edge! However, I couldn't get V2 sharper than Shig... from my experience, the Shigefusa seems to hold a better edge!! for the edge retention, IMO, Shigefusa kitaji > Shig kasumi > Yoshikane V2(better HT than Kochi V2??:dontknow:) > Kochi V2. but, Kochi V2 cutting performance is better than Yoshikane V2:knife:
where does a kochi in blue steel fit in this equation?

cclin
03-05-2013, 02:37 AM
where does a kochi in blue steel fit in this equation?

can't comment!! never use kochi in blue steel ......for my knowledge, blue#2 with more wear resistance but not as keen edge as V2!!

maxim
03-05-2013, 03:29 AM
As you can see in this threat it is really hard to comment on hand made knives :D
Some will be harder then others, they are not all the same, i have sometime had Shig that was softer then Yoshi and visa versa.

Also seen some blue steel that take better edge then white. its really hard to comment on those steels or knives when they are fully handmade. They all have some variations and always will have.
In general i think that Shig take better edge then V2 or any Yoshikane knives but only in General ;)