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Mike9
03-09-2013, 10:23 PM
There is a custom meat fabiricator/charcuterie an hour south of me that offers a full day class in sausage making from scratch. I'm going to inquire about the cost. Has anyone else done something like this? Is it worth while (within reason) as opposed to learning the hard way?

brainsausage
03-09-2013, 11:48 PM
Are you pro? Or doing it at home?

Mike9
03-10-2013, 12:12 AM
Home - No desire to work in another kitchen - ever.

brainsausage
03-10-2013, 12:26 AM
PM me your email and I'll give you some info for free. I do charcuterie professionally. Sausage is easy and just involves some basic concepts. Be glad to share.

Duckfat
03-10-2013, 04:37 PM
Grab a copy of "Charcuterie" By Ruhlman. Really good stuff in that book that's easy to follow.

Mike9
03-10-2013, 05:43 PM
Thanks - I'll check it out.

Paradox
03-10-2013, 07:37 PM
I'm interested in this too. Mike please do share your experience if you take the class. Your post got me looking for a class here in the Seattle area.

brainsausage
03-10-2013, 07:51 PM
I'm interested in this too. Mike please do share your experience if you take the class. Your post got me looking for a class here in the Seattle area.

I'll extend the same offer to you sir. I'm typing up a little course for Mike, and I can easily cut'n paste and send it in your direction. Maybe I'll start a charcuterie thread with some basic instructional info...

brainsausage
03-10-2013, 07:56 PM
Grab a copy of "Charcuterie" By Ruhlman. Really good stuff in that book that's easy to follow.

Ruhlman and Polcyk's book is fun, but my only issue with it is that they don't use parametric recipes, which is very important with charcuterie. It's far more efficient to have base ratios to work off from than constantly cutting all your proteins to set weights and trying to find a use for scraps. They're also a bit salt heavy if I remember correctly.

Duckfat
03-10-2013, 08:50 PM
So far the recipes I've tried in Charcuterie and Salumi (Ruhlmans second book on the topic) work really well with out a ton of tweaking. I'd highly suggest owning Charcuterie even if you only have a passing interest on the subject.
For those interested in wild game there's also Websters "The Venison Sausage cookbook.

brainsausage
03-10-2013, 09:02 PM
I could be mistaken. It's been about three years since I referenced that book. I was using multiple books/online resources back then. I do agree that they are solid recipes. But maintain that they're a bit difficult to resize.

Igasho
03-10-2013, 10:34 PM
I'll extend the same offer to you sir. I'm typing up a little course for Mike, and I can easily cut'n paste and send it in your direction. Maybe I'll start a charcuterie thread with some basic instructional info...

I think that is a badass idea, count me in :D I already make my own cheese, Can't wait to have my own prosciutto with it :D

don
03-11-2013, 01:04 AM
+1 on a basic charcuterie thread.

franzb69
03-11-2013, 01:13 AM
+1 on a basic charcuterie thread.

+1 on the +1

=D

Duckfat
03-11-2013, 08:24 AM
I think that is a badass idea, count me in :D I already make my own cheese, Can't wait to have my own prosciutto with it :D

Here's a link for the Duck Proscuitto recipe. It's well worth trying. Mucho Bucho posted a link here in the past about making your own drying/curing chamber so I'll leave a link for that as well. Oh and a +1 to the other +1's for starting a Charcuterie thread!

http://ruhlman.com/2009/03/duck-prosciutto/

http://www.sausagemaker.com/tutorials/chamber/curing_chamber.html

adletson
03-11-2013, 09:41 AM
Charcuterie thread would be awesome! My limited attempts (mostly from the Ruhlman book) have come out pretty good, but most are overly salty.

Basecadet
03-11-2013, 09:50 AM
+1 for me as well. I've noticed that some of the recipes in the Ruhlman book have an unusually high salt ratio, the Guanciale in particular is at 7% salt in the cure.

Duckfat
03-11-2013, 10:21 AM
If the hardest thing we have to do is adjust salt in a recipe then we certainly are off to a very good start. Adjusting any seasoning or cure is going to be a part of the process to get to a result each that fits each individuals taste.
Here's Ruhlmans Duck Proscuitto;

2 Cups/450 grams Kosher salt or ** as needed
Boneless Duck breast -about 1 pound-skin on, split
1/2 teaspoon/1.5 grams white pepper
Cheesecloth

1) Put 1 cup/225 grams of the salt into a nonreactive baking pan or dish that will just hold the duck breasts with out touching and nestle the duck breasts skin side up on the salt (the snugger the fit, the less salt you'll need to use, but be sure the pieces don't touch each other). Pour enough additional salt over the duck breasts so that the pieces are completely covered. Cover with plastic wrap and refrigerate 24 hours.
2)Remove the duck from the salt, rinse thoroughly, and pat completely dry with paper towels. The flesh should feel dense, and its color will have deepened. Dust the breasts on both sides with the white pepper.
3) Wrap each breast in a layer of cheesecloth and tie with string. Hang the duck breasts for about 7 days in a cool humid place (about 50 to 60 degrees F./8to 15 degrees C. is optimal). The flesh should be stiff but not hard throughout; the color will be a deep rich red. If the breasts feel squishy (raw) in the center, hang for a day or two longer as needed.
4) Remove the cheesecloth, wrap the duck in plastic wrap, and refrigerate until ready to use. The duck will keep for several weeks.

brainsausage
03-11-2013, 12:44 PM
The masses have spoken! I'll bang out some basic sausage guidelines for the guys who said they were interested, and then start working on a basic curing outline for a thread- along with those sausage facts. I know there's a couple other guys on the forum that do this in a pro setting(Tkern, Chuckles, JohnnyChance, to name a few), so it should be a fun constantly evolving thread.

franzb69
03-11-2013, 12:52 PM
i've only mostly followed ruhlman's book charcuterie. so basically all i know is what's in there.

this should be interesting.

i would love to learn more about salumi, more on italian type stuff.

Igasho
03-11-2013, 12:52 PM
:plus1: for a sticky thread

AFKitchenknivesguy
03-12-2013, 01:14 AM
I would like to see this as well.

Mike9
03-12-2013, 08:23 AM
Thank you Josh - I'm glad I started this thread.

rahimlee54
03-12-2013, 08:25 PM
Nice

boomchakabowwow
03-12-2013, 11:09 PM
i am thinking about the same thing. i actually asked for the class for a Christmas present..well, i asked for the half cow class. a butchering class. i think you have to do a butchering class first before you take the Sausage class.

i am definately keeping a hog head for head cheese next pig butchering day. this doesnt look that difficult. haha.

i am hoping to get the class in San Francisco.

(my wife got me one flying lesson instead..this happens on the 24th, could be my last day here on earth :))

Notaskinnychef
03-13-2013, 04:33 AM
Can't wait to read what's bout to be posted here soon, really looking forward to all the advice. Thanks guys

jayhay
03-13-2013, 10:15 AM
Home - No desire to work in another kitchen - ever.

Very, very samrt man :)

I trained under Polcyn and do a good amount of curing professionally. And I think if you are trying to cut the learning curve, a day class could be a good idea.

Charcuterie seems more complicated and fickle than it really is, at least until you get into the dry-cured stuffs. It's more about having a few good pieces of equipment (grinder, stuffer, butchers twine) and the confidence to give it a go. I think the class would be great for familiarizing yourself with the basic principles and the equipment.

Are you just looking to do fresh sausage or the dry-cured/fermented types? I'll be honest, the book Charcuterie by Polcyn leaves a bit to be desired. Some of the ratios are off, culture, salt and spice mix wise. But the book covers a lot of ground and is generally a good reference. Bertolli's Cooking by Hand is a great resource, one I prefer to Charcuterie.

Fresh sausages are super easy compared to their dry-cured cousins. I'd start there then move into basic curing like the duck breast recipe posted about. Then maybe into fermented sausages if you have the setup for it.

Mrmnms
03-13-2013, 11:33 AM
I'd love a copy of the guidelines. It's been a while since I've made sausage, I still do a few pastramis every year. Not Katz's but not bad. Thanks Brainsausage.

Duckfat
03-13-2013, 12:11 PM
I'd love a copy of the guidelines. It's been a while since I've made sausage, I still do a few pastramis every year. Not Katz's but not bad.

Care to share your Pastrami recipe? :hungry:

franzb69
03-13-2013, 12:26 PM
maybe it's time to make the charcuterie recipe thread? =D

brainsausage
03-13-2013, 04:39 PM
Sorry for not getting back to a couple of you guys who sent PM's. and yes I'll be glad to send the sausage info to whomever is interested. I've had a stupid week at work training new hires, putting out fires(figuratively), wasting my time at restaurant auctions, menu planning, and dealing with random headaches involving the new restaurant designs. I promise I'll get the sausage info typed up, just might take a bit longer than I thought. I talked to John(Johhnychance) about doing a charcuterie sticky, and he's all for it. So if anyone wants to get in on that let me know. Maybe I'll just save the sausage basics for said charcuterie thread as a starting base? Let me know if that works for you guys.

Cheers,

-Josh

Igasho
03-13-2013, 06:01 PM
im all about the sticky :D

franzb69
03-13-2013, 10:33 PM
yeah sticky!

we eagerly await your posts

Notaskinnychef
03-14-2013, 02:08 AM
That def works. I'm down for whatever works for you. I appreciate you putting the time in on this and both my wife and i will read it intently :-)

Paradox
03-14-2013, 02:24 AM
Super! Take your time. Thanks.

adletson
03-14-2013, 10:14 AM
Waiting eagerly! Thanks for your willingness. There are few things I like more than cured pig.

brainsausage
03-14-2013, 04:30 PM
Sounds good! That'll actually give me some time to take some pics to accompany the sausage narrative.

GLE1952
03-15-2013, 12:25 AM
Very interested in a charcuterie thread!
I have experimented but would love some guidance from someone actually making the product.

Glen

CasperL
04-29-2013, 12:12 PM
Hi, I am new to this forum, but I am also interested in a CHACUTERIE and SAUSAGE making class in SEATTLE, can you please give me links or places I can check out. I tried to write to SALUMI by Mr BATTALI but no one responded to me, I was interested in a class if they knew or offered one. Would appreciate any leads or tips, always looking forward to learning. Thank you in advance.

Mrmnms
04-29-2013, 04:17 PM
I'd be most interested, thanks.
Sorry for not getting back to a couple of you guys who sent PM's. and yes I'll be glad to send the sausage info to whomever is interested. I've had a stupid week at work training new hires, putting out fires(figuratively), wasting my time at restaurant auctions, menu planning, and dealing with random headaches involving the new restaurant designs. I promise I'll get the sausage info typed up, just might take a bit longer than I thought. I talked to John(Johhnychance) about doing a charcuterie sticky, and he's all for it. So if anyone wants to get in on that let me know. Maybe I'll just save the sausage basics for said charcuterie thread as a starting base? Let me know if that works for you guys.

Cheers,

-Josh

PierreRodrigue
04-29-2013, 04:50 PM
Looking forward to this as well. Please add me to your PM list.

Bill13
04-29-2013, 05:25 PM
I love this idea!! Add me to the PM list too please.

sachem allison
04-29-2013, 05:36 PM
Here is one you don't find very often in the states, unless you go to China town. Asia has a great sausage tradition and one of my favorites is a dried smoked sweet sausage called lap cheong. It is often times served diced up in fried rice or in bao's but, one of my favorite ways to eat it is sauteed up wit some onions garlic and Chinese black mushrooms. I also love it charred on a grill with and ice cold tsing tao. oooh! and sticky rice mixed with boiled peanuts scallions, lap cheong and oyster sauce.
This is a recipe I modified and developed at SavorNy when I was the Chef there.



Lap Cheong
Chinese sausage is a dried, hard sausage usually made from pork meat and a high content of fat. This sausage is normally smoked, sweetened, and seasoned. Chinese sausage formulations are unique, based on a long tradition. Ingredients such as monosodium glutamate, soy sauce and sugar are added to the sausages in very high levels. This is because there was no refrigeration until fairly recently and meat is used more as a condiment or flavor enhancer rather then a major portion of the meal. The addition of selected Chinese rice wines or even scotch or sherry are common for certain quality products.

Meats............................................. .......... Metric..... US
pork butt (If using lean pork or lean pork trimmings add 30% of back fat)....... 1000 g..... 2.20 lb.
Ingredients per 1000g (1 kg) of meat

Chinese rice wine or brandy ................... 40g..... 8tsp
soy sauce ............................................. 40g..... 8tsp
salt .................................................. .... 23g..... 4tsp
cure#1 ................................................. 2.5g..... 1/2tsp
brown sugar ......................................... 40g..... 8tsp
sugar .................................................. . 10g..... 2tsp
ground star anise ................................... 2g..... 1tsp
ground cinnamon ................................... 2g..... 1 tsp
ground Sichuan pepper............................ 2g..... 1tsp

Instructions
1. Grind pork and back fat through ⅜ plate (10 mm).
2. Mix all ingredients with meat.
3. Stuff firmly into hog or sheep casings 18-26 mm and form 5-6 (15 cm) long links.
4. Ferment at 38 C (100 F) for 12 hours, 90-85% humidity.
5. Apply light smoke at 45 C (115 F), 70% humidity for 6 hours. The sausage is still fermenting (F-LC culture is able to produce lactic acid at this temperature).
6. Gradually increase smoke temperature until internal meat temperature becomes 154 F (68 C).
7. Store sausages at 10-15 C (50-59 F), 75% humidity.
Notes
The traditional Chinese way, still applied today, is a time consuming operation of cutting meat by hand into small cubes. Chinese are fond of using MSG (monosodium glutamate), but it may be removed from the recipe. it has been removed in this recipe.

Hope you guys enjoy it.

Mrmnms
04-29-2013, 08:53 PM
Sachem , are these the skinny links hanging in the windows in Chinatown or down Main St in Queens? They used to be a treat.

don
04-29-2013, 09:02 PM
Thanks for sharing the lap cheong recipe, Son.

sachem allison
04-29-2013, 11:48 PM
Sachem , are these the skinny links hanging in the windows in Chinatown or down Main St in Queens? They used to be a treat.

yep

AFKitchenknivesguy
05-01-2013, 12:43 AM
I've been making a lot of bacon and beef jerky lately. Also, started to make cured & smoked beef sticks as well. My coworkers love this stuff, I can't make enough. There are quite a few simple kits that make the process easier these days. I am probably going to make a canadian bacon log soon (basically cured pork loin). When I finally retire and am able to settle in one place, I'll start doing a dry aged sausage. Let's keep this thread going!

Duckfat
05-01-2013, 02:03 PM
Have you been smoking the bacon on the BGE?

Mucho Bocho
05-01-2013, 02:24 PM
I've beem very making charcutterie for years. Ruhlman's book does expose the art but is hardly the last word. Personally my sausage bible is http://www.amazon.com/Home-Production-Quality-Meats-Sausages/dp/0982426739

http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s426/dennismpintoii/Curingchamberbeforethebeef.jpg (http://s1051.photobucket.com/user/dennismpintoii/media/Curingchamberbeforethebeef.jpg.html)

Makde these fresh sausages this weekend

http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s426/dennismpintoii/photo2-1.jpg (http://s1051.photobucket.com/user/dennismpintoii/media/photo2-1.jpg.html)

Chourico Cured sausages

http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s426/dennismpintoii/chourico.jpg (http://s1051.photobucket.com/user/dennismpintoii/media/chourico.jpg.html)

Pancetta

http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s426/dennismpintoii/pancetta.jpg (http://s1051.photobucket.com/user/dennismpintoii/media/pancetta.jpg.html)

For sausage Forumlas Len Poli is the gold standard

http://lpoli.50webs.com/Sausage%20recipes.htm

I've made hams, tons of cured sausages, slim jims, aged jowls, aged bacon, smoked bellys... Let me know if you have any questions:

Tool recomendation:
A Porkert hand grinder #12 will be fine, you don't need electric unless your doing tons of product

http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s426/dennismpintoii/groundchuck.jpg (http://s1051.photobucket.com/user/dennismpintoii/media/groundchuck.jpg.html)


To stuff the sausage get a 5 pound or more vertical sausage stuffer
Use only natural casings (Butcher Packer)

Get some Sodium Erythrobate, Dextrose, AmesPhos or FAB will go a long way to improve texture, moisture and taste.

Good luck. Oink Oink

Mucho Bocho
05-01-2013, 02:31 PM
My newest toy: Vacuum tumblet

http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s426/dennismpintoii/photo-1.jpg (http://s1051.photobucket.com/user/dennismpintoii/media/photo-1.jpg.html)

Mucho Bocho
05-01-2013, 02:32 PM
Some white and hungarian sausage
http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s426/dennismpintoii/sausagesbeforecuring.jpg (http://s1051.photobucket.com/user/dennismpintoii/media/sausagesbeforecuring.jpg.html)


Chamber slmost full

http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s426/dennismpintoii/fullcuringchamber.jpg (http://s1051.photobucket.com/user/dennismpintoii/media/fullcuringchamber.jpg.html)

jayhay
05-01-2013, 03:48 PM
Nice meat, bro :) Look at that flex! But on the real, you sausages look real pro.

Mrmnms
05-01-2013, 04:00 PM
looks great!

Mucho Bocho
05-01-2013, 04:02 PM
Thanks Jay thats quite a complement coming from you. It was a cooking phase I went through. I'm not making cured meats much anymore but had to restock the freezer.

I've been wanting to do a Chinese style Pig Ears. I haven't done that yet. I'm pretty sure its a terrine. Does anybody have a recipe for that one? Brainsausage/Sachem any ideas on an recipe/approach for Chinese Pig Ears?

ejd53
05-01-2013, 04:03 PM
Great stuff, might have to try this in the future.

sachem allison
05-01-2013, 04:12 PM
Thanks Jay thats quite a complement coming from you. It was a cooking phase I went through. I'm not making cured meats much anymore but had to restock the freezer.

I've been wanting to do a Chinese style Pig Ears. I haven't done that yet. I'm pretty sure its a terrine. Does anybody have a recipe for that one? Brainsausage/Sachem any ideas on an recipe/approach for Chinese Pig Ears?
are you talking the head cheese style pigs ears and snout with peppercorns and gelatin?

sachem allison
05-01-2013, 04:24 PM
Here is a classic Vietnamese version of Pig ears and snout. I love this one.



Gio Thu (Vietnamese Headcheese)




4 Pig Ears
2 Pig Tongues
2 Snouts or Cheeks or both
2 1/2 tbsps Fish Sauce
2 1/2 tbsps Sugar
1 tbsp Salt
1 tsp ground pepper
2 tbsps roasted whole Peppercorns (tiu hột)
1 cup shredded or whole Black Fungus (nấm mo) soaked for about 20 minutes or until soft and drained
Cooking Oil
6 Cloves Garlic, minced (make about 2 1/2 tbsps minced garlic)
2 Shallots, minced
1 medium Onion, for boiling meat
1 tbsp Salt, for boilling meat
2 tbsp Sugar, for boiling meat
*
*
2 tablespoos of Salt, for cleaning the meat
1 cup Vinegar, for cleaning the meat
*
*
2 empty medium size round tin cans (empty fruit cans) and plastic sandwich bags
*
*
Preparing Meat


Clean the pig ears, tongue, snout with water, salt and vinegar thorougly. Rinsed. scrub it good.
Boil meat in a large pot with onion, sugar and salt for about 45 minutes or until you can poke a choptick through the pig ears, tongue and snout . Drain and rinse cold water until cool. This will prevent the skin of the pork from turning color.
Cut the pig ears thinly.
Discard the thin white layer on top of the tongue by using the slicer to slice it. Cut tongue thinly.
Certain part of the snout might still has hair, so be sure to shave it clean. Cut snout thinly.

Mix the meat in a bowl with ground pepper, whole peppercorns, sugar, salt, fish sauce and fungus.


In a large pan, heat a couple tablespoons of cooking oil and saute the shallots and garlic until it becomes fragrant. Add the meat mixture and saute until you notice the meats become viscous sticky, usually about 10 minutes.


Molding the Mixture



use empty ridge-free walls fruit cans such as the jackfruit or lychee cans. Line the cans with sandwich bags and tightly pack the cans with the mixture. Every spoon of mixture you add in the mold, press it down firmly to compact the mixture. Close the bag then place something heavy on top to compact the contents further. Store in the fridge overnight.

Remove it from a mold and wrap it up in banana leaves or plastic wrap and aluminum foil.
Keep refrigerated until ready to use, serve in sandwich

sachem allison
05-01-2013, 04:31 PM
The differences in the Chinese version is that you would use soy sauce instead of fish sauce, add star anise, cinnamon and maybe some orange zest oh and lots of msg.

AFKitchenknivesguy
05-01-2013, 04:40 PM
Have you been smoking the bacon on the BGE?

No, I use a "tube" in my Webber. I've been cold smoking my beef jerky as well (although only for 1 hour, versus 8 hours for the bacon).

Mucho Bocho
05-01-2013, 04:47 PM
OMG Sachem, I'm going to do it. Do you think that it would work finishing in bain marie or sous vide might work as opposed to stove top? That way I could put the mixture in terrine pan and vac seal, then sous vide? Maybe at 129 degrees for 12hrs? Then rapid cool. Either way, this isn't the recipe I was thinking about.

The version of Chinese Pig Ears i'm thinking about is more like braised shingled ears cooking in a hosin base sauce. The ears are then slices cross-section very thin.

sachem allison
05-01-2013, 05:40 PM
should be fine, you just need to cook it enough to release all that gelatin, collagen and gooey goodness.

sachem allison
05-01-2013, 05:48 PM
Chinese Braised Pigs Ears
Ingredients:
▪ 4 pig ears, properly prepped
▪ 4 cups water ml water
3/4 cup soy light soy
▪ cup mirin
▪ cup shao xin wine
▪ 4 tbsp of palm sugar
▪ 2 inch chunk of ginger sliced
▪ 1 cinnamon stick
2 star anise
cup hoisin
1 tsp Sichuan peppercorns
zest of two oranges use peeler


Method:
▪ Clean the ear and remove the hair with a disposable shaver and/or blow torch
▪ Add all the seasoning and spices into the water with the pig ears into a pot. Bring it to a slow boil, turn down the heat and allow it to simmer for about 5 hours
▪ Thinly slice the pig ears and serve. Save the stock

pumbaa
05-01-2013, 08:28 PM
Grab a copy of "Charcuterie" By Ruhlman. Really good stuff in that book that's easy to follow.

this was a book used in my garde manger class awesome book and it helped my instructor was a charcuterie master

Mike9
05-31-2013, 12:09 AM
I lost track of this thread being in my busy season. Did it get anywhere? Has anyone been PM'd any information?

slowtyper
05-31-2013, 01:01 AM
I'll extend the same offer to you sir. I'm typing up a little course for Mike, and I can easily cut'n paste and send it in your direction. Maybe I'll start a charcuterie thread with some basic instructional info...

Hey, just posting up the info for everyone would be great if you could. I would appreciate the info.

Thanks

mr drinky
05-31-2013, 02:18 AM
Can't believe I have totally missed a thread with 40+ replies. I'd also be interested in this.

k.

Mucho Bocho
05-31-2013, 09:09 AM
I haven't made Sachems ears but I am working on 10 LBS of back strap belly and 10LBS of Jowls. The Jowls are going to be a PIA to clean as they have the skin on and then I have to remove all the salivary glands. good think their easy to spot.

Sachem, I was going to more roast belly like this pic. Do you prefer Jowl or Belly for this purpose? Also, I've pan fried it both ways (skin on and skin off), seems like most people take the skin off. I kinda like the chichirone crunch of it? Of course I remove any hair stubble first.

http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s426/dennismpintoii/belly2.jpg (http://s1051.photobucket.com/user/dennismpintoii/media/belly2.jpg.html)

http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s426/dennismpintoii/belly1.jpg (http://s1051.photobucket.com/user/dennismpintoii/media/belly1.jpg.html)

sachem allison
05-31-2013, 01:43 PM
Belly fan, and you have to have the skin. No self respecting Asian would it if it didn't have skin on it.

Mucho Bocho
05-31-2013, 01:51 PM
Sachem, Agreed. Americans want to get fancy. What about the Jowl. Whats your favorite way of preparing them?

Brad Gibson
05-31-2013, 01:58 PM
That belly looks great!