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Salty dog
05-11-2011, 10:47 PM
As I mentioned in another thread I had my annual health inspection today. (FYI, in these parts the Health Dept makes an appointment for the inspection at least a week in advance. Sweet ay?)

Anyway, as a result, he put the K-bosh on my sous vide menu items. It seems we're the first restaurant in the area to serve it. The inspector is all excited about getting the process approved. So we will be working together on it.

I guess they've crossed this bridge already on the left and right coasts.

ThEoRy
05-12-2011, 12:37 AM
Same thing happened in NYC back in 06. Health inspectors just weren't prepared for it. There were no guidelines set forth by the government on proper vacuum techniques and cooking sou vide methods. A lot of chefs were pissed when the inspectors made them throw out thousands of dollars worth of product.

They're all caught up to speed now though. Hopefully there was no monetary loss at your restaraunt and this resolves rather quickly. Keep us posted on the progress of these events and good luck.

Salty dog
05-12-2011, 12:46 AM
I'm getting smart in my old age. He wasn't insisting I not serve them but we were about to go on a merry go round, so I told him I had no problem taking them off the menu until we could sort it out. I took my cell phone out of my pocket, called the office and before the inspection was over the new menus were in place.

During the discussion the matter of duck temperature came up. He was unaware that people serve duck less than 165 degrees internal temp. That's when I said I'm yanking it.

Miles
05-12-2011, 04:06 AM
It sounds like you're taking the right attitude and approach with the inspector. I'll be very interested to hear about how the process develops and turns out. I'm a little surprised about his comments on duck, though. That's hard to believe.

Salty dog
05-12-2011, 08:15 AM
This is rube country.

That's why we do well. We're an oasis.

MadMel
05-12-2011, 08:31 AM
OMG they can't approve Sous Vide? I mean they'r doing it on Iron Chef for goodness sake...

Salty dog
05-12-2011, 08:54 AM
We're going to have to go through a process to get it approved. The inpector was actually quite jazzed about working on something new for a change. Now I'm wondering if anyone is the state is doing sous vide because he had very little info to referance.

wenus2
05-12-2011, 09:33 AM
165F duck breast makes me shudder

Surely they will get the sous vide jitters sorted soon enough. There are obviously protocols in place all over the country that will be available to your local HD for approval.

I too learned a long time ago that the best thing to do is give them a lot of:
"Yes sir we can do that...
We will absolutely do that....
Here, let me take care of that right now..." :)

Salty dog
05-12-2011, 10:00 AM
My current HD is great. I actually believe the guy when he says "we here to help you."

I owned a restaurant in a neighboring town where they had their own inspectors. They were ridiculous and I was always in there face. I'm sorry but you walk into my joint immediately after the lunch rush and start taking temps before we even get a chance to re-stock I'm going to be all over dude, dude's boss and dude's boss's boss. There was an "ole boys club" that wasn't happy I moved into the neighborhood.

Avishar
05-12-2011, 11:40 AM
We are also getting into sous vide, it seems all we should need is a variance and a HACCP for the items. How do you all (commercially) use your circulators? Do you keep them running during service and just store a certain amount of product in them, or do you cook, chill, then reheat them in another way/method? It seems if you a circulator for holding during service it would make sense to have two, one for holding and one for cooking items.

stereo.pete
05-12-2011, 12:46 PM
Wow, that is terrible to hear Salty although I know you'll have your Sous Vide up an running before long with the inspectors approval. I remember last time I was at your place I was seriously contemplating the duck and now I might not get to try it for a while.

MadMel
05-12-2011, 01:37 PM
In a lot of restaurants here in Singapore, they don't usually use immersion circulator. Too expensive and space is at a premium here. They would usually steam in an oven on a rack. Cooking, chilling and reheating is a choice if you have a lot of covers that's gonna come in at a single time and the food takes a longer time to cook.

SpikeC
05-12-2011, 02:50 PM
Making friends with inspectors is a very good thing.................

Salty dog
05-13-2011, 01:06 PM
Cook chill reheat. The variance is exactly what dude was talking about.

dubie
07-19-2011, 04:11 AM
We had 3 or 4 circulators at my last restaurant. We usually cooked stuff before service but had at least one going for pick-ups during service. All about timing and hearing the "down-the-road" calls.

slowtyper
08-06-2011, 03:52 AM
How much does a setup cost roughly?

JohnnyChance
08-06-2011, 04:51 AM
How much does a setup cost roughly?

For home or a restaurant?

At home you can get started for about $500. For a restaurant...$3k-5k to start and depending how what size vac sealer you want and how many circulators or water ovens you need. You can use the home stuff in a pro kitchen, depending on what you want to do with it. If you want to have proteins bagged and held in a bath during service, chances are the home water ovens aren't big enough.

SpikeC
08-06-2011, 03:35 PM
At home you can get by for a lot less than that! Hack a slow cooker and get a Costco vac sealer and away you go.

Eamon Burke
08-06-2011, 11:49 PM
what temps do sous vide dishes get cooked at, normally? im guessing low...

JohnnyChance
08-07-2011, 12:44 AM
Depends. Most proteins are 120-140. Eggs around 165 depending how you want them. Veggies and potatoes 185.

Vertigo
08-07-2011, 12:46 AM
People Sue-Vee their eggs? SRSly?

JohnnyChance
08-07-2011, 12:49 AM
Sous vide eggs in shell fckin rock. The yolk and white cook at the same rate so the entire egg has the texture of custard. Not as similar to a poached egg as you would think. You cut it in half and the yolk stays in a half orb shape for a second, then gently oozes into a thick puddle. Best textured eggs I have ever had. If I had an hour to cook myself breakfast every morning I would put them on toast, you could spread them like soft butter.

Vertigo
08-07-2011, 12:50 AM
Whoa. I thought I knew every way on the planet to cook eggs. You're blowing my freaking mind here, JC.

Eamon Burke
08-07-2011, 12:54 AM
saw it on tv. blew my mind

JohnnyChance
08-07-2011, 12:56 AM
You knew every way 'cept the best way!

It doesn't have to be super precise. See if you can rig up a pot of water on your stove that will stay at 165ish for an hour. You might have to baby it a bit, keep the pot up above the flame somehow, add some cold water now and then, but it should work.

JohnnyChance
08-07-2011, 12:57 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF0VtXNdYW4&feature=player_detailpage

stevenStefano
08-10-2011, 01:31 PM
Johnny, is the sous vide method similar to this way itasan uses in one of his videos?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOuJpBFBcBg

JohnnyChance
08-10-2011, 03:01 PM
Looks kinda similar. But his is cooked at a higher temperature for a shorter amount of time, then chilled (I think) and served. With the sous vide ones I serve em straight out of the water bath so they are still warm/hot.

chefwatson
08-10-2011, 08:01 PM
Looks kinda similar. But his is cooked at a higher temperature for a shorter amount of time, then chilled (I think) and served. With the sous vide ones I serve em straight out of the water bath so they are still warm/hot.


Not to be a stickler but, sous vide means under vacuum. Technically you are using a circulator to cook at a lower, more precise and constant temperature but, not sous vide. The end result is no less amazing and delicious. In Modernist Cuisine, they give you the steps to build your own circulator. God I love that book!

wenus2
08-10-2011, 08:08 PM
I think despite the literal meaning of the words sous vide, the term has certainly come to represent this cooking style, vac sealed or not.

I have a pork roast chugging along at 145, it will come out shortly and see about 15 min in a 550F oven to crust up. Perfect everytime.

JohnnyChance
08-10-2011, 08:12 PM
I think despite the literal meaning of the words sous vide, the term has certainly come to represent this cooking style, vac sealed or not.

I have a pork roast chugging along at 145, it will come out shortly and see about 15 min in a 550F oven to crust up. Perfect everytime.

Exactly.

How long at 145 did you do the roast?

chefwatson
08-10-2011, 08:26 PM
And you would both still be incorrect. What you are doing is poaching.

JohnnyChance
08-10-2011, 08:28 PM
Take it up with Thomas Keller then.

chefwatson
08-10-2011, 08:31 PM
Take it up with Thomas Keller then.

As long as you quit perpetuating misinformation I'll get on the phone with him right now.

JohnnyChance
08-10-2011, 08:35 PM
Call him up then.


Sous-vide (pronounced /suːˈviːd/), French for "under vacuum",[1] is a method of cooking food sealed in airtight plastic bags in a water bath for a long time—72 hours is not unusual—at an accurately determined temperature much lower than normally used for cooking, typically around 60 C or 140 F. The intention is to cook the item evenly, not overcook the outside while still keeping the inside at the same 'doneness' and to keep the food juicier.

I'm pretty sure that is what we are doing. The eggs are just sealed naturally.

chefwatson
08-10-2011, 08:38 PM
Call him up then.



I'm pretty sure that is what we are doing. The eggs are just sealed naturally.

Since an egg is porous... again... still incorrect. Unless you are telling me your chickens produce eggs that are vacuum sealed.

Jim
08-10-2011, 08:40 PM
I don't care what you call it John- I want to eat it!

JohnnyChance
08-10-2011, 08:41 PM
I never said they were vacuum sealed. Just sealed enough to cook without letting the egg out or water in.

chefwatson
08-10-2011, 08:43 PM
which is STILL poaching.

JohnnyChance
08-10-2011, 08:47 PM
...at a lower, more controlled temperature for a much longer period of time in order to control the consistency of the entire product. Commonly know as....sous vide.

It is nothing like a poached egg, so why should I call it that?

chefwatson
08-10-2011, 08:57 PM
well then why not call it Beef Wellington? It isn't that either. Take any quote out of context to make it fit your definition and what you get is perpetual misinformation. Just because some chef you look up to called it something incorrectly doesn't actually lend validity to the misinformation. Just because it was in it's shell doesn't change the fact that it is still a poached egg.

The egg doesn't have to be under 100% vacuum or something that would crush the shell... but without ANY vacuum, it is not sous vide.

JohnnyChance
08-10-2011, 09:00 PM
So if I throw the egg in a bag and vac it lightly until sealed, and then put it in a water bath, I can call it sous vide? Whats the point, its just a waste of a bag.

wenus2
08-10-2011, 09:35 PM
Exactly.

How long at 145 did you do the roast?

~10 hrs.


Boy this thread sure took a dive, thanks for popping in chefwatson....:flush:

jmforge
08-16-2011, 05:00 PM
LOL. I tried a little bit of silliness/sarcasm in another thread to make that point and was taken seriously. My question is does the technique work and how and does the stuff that you prepare that way taste good? You can use whatever terminology you wish, but the second part is the important one, no?
~10 hrs.


Boy this thread sure took a dive, thanks for popping in chefwatson....:flush: