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View Full Version : Dt itk vs Rodrigue mid tech



K-Fed
03-20-2013, 11:02 PM
Ill try to write a review after work tomorrow after I have a little more board time with the Rodrigue. I will say off the bat that this thing is super thin and awesome for more detailed cuts. It almost feels like it bridges the gap between a gyuto and a suji. The tip is sharpened tinfoil thin and very pointy. Easily going from fine dicing shallots to cleaning the silver skin off pork tenderloin.
http://i.imgur.com/870pu2q.jpg

EdipisReks
03-20-2013, 11:03 PM
height at heel?

K-Fed
03-20-2013, 11:11 PM
Not sure. Ill get a measurement tomorrow. The heel height feels about average for a 240mm gyuto but the blade shape is very triangular leaving the tip quite narrow. It is a very comfortable knife to use and kind of reminds me of a tuned up sab.

K-Fed
03-20-2013, 11:12 PM
Not sure. Ill get a measurement tomorrow. The heel height feels about average for a 240mm gyuto but the blade shape is very triangular leaving the tip quite narrow. It is a very comfortable knife to use and kind of reminds me of a tuned up sab. I've never used a masamoto ks but I imagine that they are a bit similar.

marc4pt0
03-21-2013, 01:20 AM
Yep, you've got my attention. I am tuned in.

skiajl6297
03-21-2013, 08:54 AM
Excited to read your thoughts!

K-Fed
03-21-2013, 10:58 AM
height at heel?

48mm. Just touched up the edge and this knife plays very well with the rika... Haven't really found a knife that didn't but i got much better results off the rika than with the choceras on this one. Finished with a nakayama karasu. quite nice.

skiajl6297
03-21-2013, 11:30 AM
As a newb sharpener, do you think this knife would be worth a quick pass on a gesshin 4k before use, or nothing? Don't have higher grit options currently, and am awaiting first strop as well.

If mine ever leaves Chicago's postal wasteland where it's been sitting for a week, I will chime in with my thoughts as well!

Lefty
03-21-2013, 11:35 AM
I sharpened mine up to a 6k, and it's very very sharp, thin as nimble. K-Fed, how are you finding the feel in hand, with how light it is, compared to the DT ITK?

K-Fed
03-21-2013, 11:35 AM
As a newb sharpener, do you think this knife would be worth a quick pass on a gesshin 4k before use, or nothing? Don't have higher grit options currently, and am awaiting first strop as well.

If mine ever leaves Chicago's postal wasteland where it's been sitting for a week, I will chime in with my thoughts as well!

I would for sure. the edge imho was ok at best out of the box. The tip is extremely thin and a little flexible. Light pressure when sharpening the tip is a must on this one to avoid birds beaking it.

K-Fed
03-21-2013, 11:42 AM
I sharpened mine up to a 6k, and it's very very sharp, thin as nimble. K-Fed, how are you finding the feel in hand, with how light it is, compared to the DT ITK?

Really they are both two extremely different animals. The Rodrigue is extremely light and nimble while the dt has a good bit of heft to it. I was really suprised how light it really is. In hand it reminded me of the 210mm konosuke wa gyuto I once had as far as that goes. The balance on mine is spot on as well. Balancing right at the choil. I couldn't imagine a gyuto being any more nimble.

Marko Tsourkan
03-21-2013, 12:01 PM
How much flex is there on both?

I think it would be helpful to see some numbers - thickness on the spine over the heel, then half way, then 2" from the tip, and weight of both knives. Those would give a fuller picture of knives you are comparing.

When you compare a laser with a hefty knife, performance will be very different.

M

Lefty
03-21-2013, 12:04 PM
My first words to Pierre, in regards to mine were, "Reminds me of the Konosuke White 2 gyuto we played around with, but with a much nicer handle".

Chefdog
03-21-2013, 12:28 PM
I'm really interested in this comparo. Ive been lusting after a DT gyuto for a while now based on reviews, comments, and knife forum lore, but have yet to handle one. So seeing other makers put head to head with the "grail" always catches my interest.

Can't wait to hear more after you've put it to more use.

K-Fed
03-21-2013, 01:31 PM
How much flex is there on both?

I think it would be helpful to see some numbers - thickness on the spine over the heel, then half way, then 2" from the tip, and weight of both knives. Those would give a fuller picture of knives you are comparing.

When you compare a laser with a hefty knife, performance will be very different.

M

I'd love to but I'm 86 calipers. Maybe lefty or Pierre could comment on this.

labor of love
03-21-2013, 01:47 PM
looking forward to your thought on the rodrigue. i hope he makes plans for a 270 gyuto mid tech down the road.

Lefty
03-21-2013, 08:18 PM
I could measure it. How exactly do you want me to measure the flexibility of the tip? I'd say it's there, but not overly bendy. Wit that being said, I'll give numbers, with an explanation on something "standard".

WildBoar
03-21-2013, 08:54 PM
I'm really interested in this comparo. Ive been lusting after a DT gyuto for a while now based on reviews, comments, and knife forum lore, but have yet to handle one. So seeing other makers put head to head with the "grail" always catches my interest.

Can't wait to hear more after you've put it to more use.Shoot me a PM -- I have a 240 DT ITK in AEB-L you can try out (in Alexandria)

kalaeb
03-21-2013, 09:06 PM
Off Topic...I would actually be curious as the standard as to how one would measure flex, for example hold the tip down and apply pressure from the handle and measure how far you press down? Or the same, only where along the blade it flexes, 2 inches from tip etc.....

K-Fed
03-21-2013, 10:59 PM
I snapped a few pics tonight. They're worth a thousand words. The first is a flex pic of the Rodrigue. Second is the same with my dt and the third is a side by side of the spine at the tip. Keep in mind the dt is also very thin at the tip. Thinner than my suisin IH. The Rodrigue is on the left in the third picture.
http://i.imgur.com/3nf9pYL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OZfaF7s.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uokcezq.jpg

El Pescador
03-21-2013, 11:27 PM
TK59 and I messed around with ITKs from different runs. There's a big difference between knives made early on and knives from later batches. The can be completely different beasts.

K-Fed
03-21-2013, 11:38 PM
TK59 and I messed around with ITKs from different runs. There's a big difference between knives made early on and knives from later batches. The can be completely different beasts.

This one is #10 from the first run.

Chefdog
03-21-2013, 11:43 PM
TK59 and I messed around with ITKs from different runs. There's a big difference between knives made early on and knives from later batches. The can be completely different beasts.

Will you enlighten us as to what the changes were over time?

labor of love
03-21-2013, 11:44 PM
Will you enlighten us as to what the changes were over time?

spine thickness and weight.

Marko Tsourkan
03-21-2013, 11:45 PM
The later were thinner, no lasers, but thinner than the version 1.0.

Chefdog
03-21-2013, 11:47 PM
Interesting, thanks guys.

chinacats
03-21-2013, 11:59 PM
Seems like some have a slightly flatter profile, is this related to different series or my imagination?

labor of love
03-22-2013, 12:01 AM
well, most dt itk pics that i see are of used ones, i also noticed the profiles at times seemed to differ. might have alot to do with sharpening over time though.

cookinstuff
03-22-2013, 12:20 AM
I'm finding this very interesting, my friend at work has an ITK, it is pretty similar to my custom DT, mine is a lot flatter. There are also two Rodrigue custom gyutos at work, both are very robust knives, my Rodrigue is my work horse, I could do anything with it, but a lazer, never thought of a Rodrigue gyuto as a lazer. These are much different than the customs from Pierre I have seen, this looks like it could be a good comparison to my Ikkanshi Tadatsuna, not my Rodrigue gyuto. I might have to grab one of these, or bug Lefty if I can see his :whistling:

skiajl6297
03-29-2013, 08:57 AM
Question for Lefty and K-Fed - this is my first brand new knife! I have never sharpened a new knife for the first time. (I have been practicing on numerous knives, carbon, pm, and have the basics down, but would appreciate any guidance or feedback you might have on sharpening this guy.)

Any suggestions on how to attack the mid tech from an angle/assymetry standpoint? I was struggling to understand the grind last night (with rulers) and trying to focus my eyes on the bevels (knife so thin hard to focus!) and just was having a tough time seeing any variance from 50/50 bevels.

Any insight (or suggested angles of attack) from your sharpenings?

I am hoping to spend more time this weekend with the knife and will report back here with impressions.

Notaskinnychef
03-29-2013, 09:49 AM
way more flex than i expected to see

K-Fed
03-29-2013, 10:07 AM
Question for Lefty and K-Fed - this is my first brand new knife! I have never sharpened a new knife for the first time. (I have been practicing on numerous knives, carbon, pm, and have the basics down, but would appreciate any guidance or feedback you might have on sharpening this guy.)

Any suggestions on how to attack the mid tech from an angle/assymetry standpoint? I was struggling to understand the grind last night (with rulers) and trying to focus my eyes on the bevels (knife so thin hard to focus!) and just was having a tough time seeing any variance from 50/50 bevels.

Any insight (or suggested angles of attack) from your sharpenings?

I am hoping to spend more time this weekend with the knife and will report back here with impressions.
As far as angles go I usually start with the "default" of around 15 a side and go from there. So far I've sharpened an ever so slight left hand bias into the bevels, probably 60/40ish, and it has held it pretty well so for so next sharpening go round I may make the angles lower but from what I could gather myself this knife is pretty close to a 50/50 grind so I don't think i'll make them too much more asymetrical.

SpikeC
03-29-2013, 03:37 PM
Majic marker.

skiajl6297
04-03-2013, 03:54 PM
I really like this Pierre mid-tech knife. Thin, light, stainless, gets very sharp (with my limited sharpening abilities). So far the bulk of the work has been home mise en place, limited to pretty basic stuff - and the knife has handled all things well. The only limited complaint is that there is a considerable amount of sticktion when julienning onions given the thin profile (my onions were walking up the side of the blade to the point where the stacks were hitting the board before the blade) if that makes any sense. Dicing and fine tip work are a breeze and strong suits of the knife. Slicing cooked meats also simple and quick.

As mentioned above, I developed minor patina from cutting hot chicken thighs - but it was easily polished out with BKF and looks like new now. On my Gesshin 4k stone, was pretty quick cutting, took longer to raise a burr than my Dexter carbon practice knife, but no shocker there. Left a good bit of swarf on the stone which required more frequent dousings to cut cleanly. Deburring on cork worked well and the knife ended up pretty darned sharp. Still learning to get a good burr without taking too much metal - so am still taking it slowly. Struggling with wavy angles bigtime. Need to stay slow. But in sum, sharpened up nicely and cuts really well. Waiting on my strop from Marko, and will give it some runs with 1 micron diamond paste to further refine. Very excited to see what this can do.

Long way of saying this knife is gorgeous, functional, stainless, and has the fit and finish of a custom knife, with the customer service of Pierre. All in all, well worth the money so far. Glad to answer any questions as well - and sympathies to poor K-Fed - his knife had a tumble. Also thanks to K-Fed for letting me add my two cents to his thread.

panda
04-20-2013, 01:56 AM
today was my first day with the itk, instant joy using it. it's a wonderful cutter. has a bit of heft so definitely work horse material. has a better profile in actual use than from looking at it, lots of flat area despite a slightly high nose. suppose because of its length (270) the tip rides higher to counter the natural arm movement. is it just me, or does the 'on board' feel feel a bit soft (but very smooth and refined)? is it what all aeb feels like (due to small carbides?)? takayuki grand cheff feels soft in use as well.

K-Fed
04-20-2013, 02:29 PM
today was my first day with the itk, instant joy using it. it's a wonderful cutter. has a bit of heft so definitely work horse material. has a better profile in actual use than from looking at it, lots of flat area despite a slightly high nose. suppose because of its length (270) the tip rides higher to counter the natural arm movement. is it just me, or does the 'on board' feel feel a bit soft (but very smooth and refined)? is it what all aeb feels like (due to small carbides?)? takayuki grand cheff feels soft in use as well.
Iirc the Takayuki is on the softer side at ~58 hrc and devin shoots for ~ 62.5. That being said aebl, devin's especially, reminds me of blue super both in use and on the stones. Pretty amazing stuff with dt's heat treat. I'd bet most people would be hard pressed to tell the difference between a good carbon blade and dt's aebl if they didn't already know better.

panda
04-26-2013, 01:50 AM
update on itk use. been using for prep work, blows right through foods so well that it actually makes doing bulk prep rather fun. this arrived with a mild lefty bias. i've never tried such a thing being right handed and all, so didn't know what to expect. safe to say it doesn't effect me what so ever.

zitangy
04-26-2013, 05:12 AM
As far as angles go I usually start with the "default" of around 15 a side and go from there. So far I've sharpened an ever so slight left hand bias into the bevels, probably 60/40ish, and it has held it pretty well so for so next sharpening go round I may make the angles lower but from what I could gather myself this knife is pretty close to a 50/50 grind so I don't think i'll make them too much more asymetrical.

Originally Posted by skiajl6297
Question for Lefty and K-Fed - this is my first brand new knife! I have never sharpened a new knife for the first time. (I have been practicing on numerous knives, carbon, pm, and have the basics down, but would appreciate any guidance or feedback you might have on sharpening this guy.)

Any suggestions on how to attack the mid tech from an angle/assymetry standpoint? I was struggling to understand the grind last night (with rulers) and trying to focus my eyes on the bevels (knife so thin hard to focus!) and just was having a tough time seeing any variance from 50/50 bevels.

Any insight (or suggested angles of attack) from your sharpenings?

I am hoping to spend more time this weekend with the knife and will report back here with impressions.
As far as angles go I usually start with the "default" of around 15 a side and go from there. So far I've sharpened an ever so slight left hand bias into the bevels, probably 60/40ish, and it has held it pretty well so for so next sharpening go round I may make the angles lower but from what I could gather myself this knife is pretty close to a 50/50 grind so I don't think i'll make them too much more asymetrical. ( Quote)

Angle of attack. Kfed is right.

My approach wld be an angle that the edge is touching the surface of the stone.

a) Firstly, I wld place the blade flat on the stone. You shld be able to see or better still feel that the edge is not touching the surface of the stone. On 70/30 grinds you can use the secondary bevel level to feel for the height required( hence angle). Then I wld raise accordingly till the edge is touching the stone to address the sharpening on the edge IF you need to thin behind the edge drop the angle so slightly that the edge is just not touching the stone. Use your eyes if the angle is too minute, the finger touching the stone/ edge area will tell you whether there is a gap. With no gap, the edge is touching the stone

b) If the blade is a thin laser like and the gap is so minute that it si difficult to feel or touch, then generally starting at lower angle around 10 degrees as a guide and then work on the final angle ( slightly higher say 15 egrees) whld be enough to sharpen the knife.

c)) on worn out knives, you will need a lower angle to thin the secondary edge and then work on the primary angle. I always sharpen at 2 angles a) secondary b)primary as this way,I will not be confronted with alot of steel removal in future for if you only sharpen say at 15 degrees all teh time, over a few sessions, teh edge will get thicker and thicker as it recedes upwards. Even in my steeling I apply this so that I will not be confronted with alot of steel removal at one go!

d) IF the sharpening is done by free hand, you wld be extremely lucky that it is 50:50 grind. A righty sharpener will have a right side biased sharpening as the way the knife is held and the pressure applied; unless when the knife is turned over for sharpening, this natural tendency is compensated.

have fun.

D

RRLOVER
04-26-2013, 07:11 AM
Is the Rodrigue really a Midtech???? I thought it was more in line with the #ichmond line of knives.I can't say it's a fair comparison.

skiajl6297
04-26-2013, 09:02 AM
Zitangy - thanks for the added insight! With my limited experience I was able to get this thing ridiculously sharp, and it will only get more refined with proper stropping.

Maybe midtech isn't the right term - if this is the standard for the middle of the road tech, you can bet this isn't the only Pierre knife I will own.

zitangy
04-26-2013, 09:24 AM
Zitangy - thanks for the added insight! With my limited experience I was able to get this thing ridiculously sharp, and it will only get more refined with proper stropping.

Maybe midtech isn't the right term - if this is the standard for the middle of the road tech, you can bet this isn't the only Pierre knife I will own.

you are welcome. Once you understand what you need to do, apply whatever methods you have that works for you.. you are all set! initially, you may have to spend a few minutes evaluating what to do.

a) IF you are unsure, if after a few honing strokes, there is a reasonable edge when you cut paper, not much steel removal required. IF still blunt.. time for more serious steel removal.

b) over time, by just touching'feeling the edge.. you will know how much steel to remove adn the appropriate stone to start adn the feedback will tell you to reduce pressure/ lighten your strokes ; when to change stone to a finer grit adn before that..to remove the burr before the next level.

c) Practice makes perfect... touch everyone's knife edge but not their dicks and evaluate the sharpness .. as quoted by someone in their tag line.. You will definitely get there. When things do not work out... go back to teh basics adn start from there adn figure a better plan as your initial plan didn't work out.

Have fun and stay sharp.... and hv a nice week-end.

D