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mhlee
03-22-2013, 06:31 PM
Here's the draft of the revised Questionnaire that I've been working on.

Please feel free to post any comments or questions that you may have. I just ask that you go through the Questionnaire first as if you were considering the purchase of a new knife.

I hope to include embedded links where you see "LINK" that were included in the original Questionnaire.

Thanks.

----------

Please refer to the Kitchen Knife Knowledge sub forum (LINK) and the Kitchen Knife Glossary thread (LINK) for general information, including types of knives and knife terminology, used in this questionnaire.
There’s no need to elaborate or explain your answer to a “yes” or “no” question. Let’s begin!
LOCATION
What country are you in?
KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in? E.g., Chef’s Knife (or Gyuto), Slicer (or Sujihiki), Boning Knife, Utility Knife (or Petty), Bread Knife, Paring Knife, Yanagiba, Deba, Usuba, Meat Cleaver, Vegetable Cleaver?
Are you right or left handed?
Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese (wa) handle?
What length of knife are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no.)
What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife (i.e., “I’m not spending one more euro/pence/penny/peso/yen more than this”)?
KNIFE USE
Where do you primarily intend to use this knife?


At home or a professional environment? (Please feel free to specify what type of work environment, e.g., catering, restaurant, butchery, seafood.)
How often? (Please feel free to specify how many hours a day, and days per week.)

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
What knife, if anything, are you replacing?
Is your primary grip when you hold your knife a “pinch” grip (i.e., holding the knife in front of the handle with your thumb and index finger on opposite sides of the knife)? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.) (Yes or no.)
What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used, e.g., rock chop, rock mince, push cut, pull cut.)
What improvements do you want from your current knife? Please identify all improvements that you would like this knife to have. (If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)


Better aesthetics (e.g., a rustic knife – e.g., hammered finish, or darkened (kurouchi) blade; satin finish; mirror finish; nicer steel pattern (e.g., layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel); different handle color/pattern/ shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance) –
Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material (e.g., nicer type of wood or synthetic material); better handle shape (e.g., shorter or taller height, thicker or thinner, shorter or longer length); rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance (i.e., please identify how you like the knife to be balanced, whether toward the blade, in front of the handle, or toward the handle) –
Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen) –
Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening based on your expected use above) –

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Is it very important that your knife require only minimal daily maintenance? (i.e., only need to wash and dry after use, occasional sharpening) (Yes or no.)
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber (e.g., Sani-Tuff) or synthetic cutting board (e.g., any type of plastic, Hi-Soft, etc.)? (Yes or no.)
Do you sharpen your knives on your own using any type of whetstone? (Yes or no.)


If “yes,” are you looking to purchase more specific products for this knife? (Yes or no.)



If “no,” will you have your knives professionally sharpened? (Yes or no.)
If “no,” are you interested in learning how to sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
If “yes” to the question immediately above, what is the absolute maximum amount of money you would be willing to put toward sharpening products?

SPECIAL REQUESTS
Country of origin –
Other –

wenus2
03-22-2013, 06:57 PM
Wow, that's thorough. Only 2 things come to mind:

Is the cutting board question really intended to be yes/no, or to specify type?

The maintenance question might be vague because I doubt many new people can imagine what other care may be required.

Nice work Mike!

mhlee
03-22-2013, 07:08 PM
Wow, that's thorough. Only 2 things come to mind:

Is the cutting board question really intended to be yes/no, or to specify type?

The maintenance question might be vague because I doubt many new people can imagine what other care may be required.

Nice work Mike!

The cutting board question is meant to be "yes" or "no." All of the types of boards identified are generally accepted to be sufficient; by answering "no", without forcing the person completing the questionnaire to specify what kind of board they have, we'll know that they have a board that isn't really good.

The way I looked at this was that a "no" response means they have either a glass, stone, metal cutting board, none of which are good for knives. But, I figured that this would eliminate any specific ridicule for the person who completed the questionnaire for the kind of board they have. We'll know they need an upgrade though.

As for maintenance, I phrased the question that way because it seemed to me that there are people who really want a knife that does not require maintenance, and the rest of the people are willing to do more, up to a certain limit. I will say, I had trouble phrasing that question to get the kind of information needed without leading to ridicule, e.g. a person responds to a different question that asks "Are you willing to wipe down your knife regularly during use?" A "no" response might be met with, "Why not?"

El Pescador
03-22-2013, 07:30 PM
v.2 is better than v.1

Benuser
03-22-2013, 07:45 PM
A good beginning, I would tend to say. Two very first remarks if you don't mind.
I would like to find out whether a poster uses poor sharpening equipment, e.g. a diamond rod or a pull through sharpener, or may be used to steel his knives with a grooved steel.
It might be useful to know whether he is fine with the asymmetry he will encounter especially with Japanese knives.

mhlee
03-22-2013, 08:06 PM
A good beginning, I would tend to say. Two very first remarks if you don't mind.
I would like to find out whether a poster uses poor sharpening equipment, e.g. a diamond rod or a pull through sharpener, or may be used to steel his knives with a grooved steel.
It might be useful to know whether he is fine with the asymmetry he will encounter with especially Japanese knives.

I did not want to include the question worded the same way as it was in the first questionnaire because it immediately led to comments about how such equipment was inferior, etc. I felt that by simply asking whether they use any whetstone of any kind was enough information to know that they have a start on how to sharpen knives (and members can just add that stones are the way to go - no other comments necessary, explanation of asymmetry can be included in recommendations of HOW to sharpen).

If they do not have whetstones, members will know that the person will need to either (1) buy sharpening equipment or (2) get it professionally sharpened. Both of which are follow up questions.

Asymmetry wasn't part of the original questionnaire and I agree with not asking that. Comments primarily focused on making this more friendly for novices. Bringing asymmetry in to the mix goes the opposite way. Members that recommend knives can point out that a knife has asymmetric bevels or an asymmetric edge, etc.

mhlee
03-22-2013, 08:17 PM
A number of questions are phrased in a manner where we learn critical information by what is not stated; we learn by a "no" answer that the person does not have something that is generally considered to be necessary or even essential going forward.

I just ask that you consider this as you go through the Questionnaire. This was all done with the intent of reducing/eliminating any embarrassment the person completing the Questionnaire may have if the person simply stated they have "x, y, z" that members do not agree with.

cgul629
03-22-2013, 08:36 PM
As a noob who recently filled out the questionnaire, I really like the changes. I was able to figure out what types of answers were expected by browsing the forum for a while before making my post, but I think the example answers for each question will be a big help in getting useful answers in initial post rather than sussing them out with follow up questions.

I was also going to make the comment about the board question being Yes/No, but I see where you are going with it so it makes sense to me now.

Benuser
03-22-2013, 09:48 PM
Asking whether people are fine with edge asymmetry is IMHO essential for knowing if they're prepared to deal with a Japanese knife. Blade asymmetry is a general phenomena when dealing with decent knives, Japanese, French or even German. It might be attenuated, or less obvious, though, where lasers are concerned. I would like to know if a poster insists on symmetrical sharpening. With some knives, acceptable results may be achieved. On others, it's just asking for serious problems after a few sharpenings - bizarre steering, wedging, you know.

mhlee
03-23-2013, 12:39 AM
Asking whether people are fine with edge asymmetry is IMHO essential for knowing if they're prepared to deal with a Japanese knife. Blade asymmetry is a general phenomena when dealing with decent knives, Japanese, French or even German. It might be attenuated, or less obvious, though, where lasers are concerned. I would like to know if a poster insists on symmetrical sharpening. With some knives, acceptable results may be achieved. On others, it's just asking for serious problems after a few sharpenings - bizarre steering, wedging, you know.

We'll put this to the members then.

Who feels that this is something that needs to be included in the Questionnaire?

Thanks.

echerub
03-23-2013, 12:57 AM
I think most folks new to japanese knives will have no idea what is meant by asymmetry ... or even geometry in general.

BTW, I really like the changes and where this is going :)

franzb69
03-23-2013, 12:57 AM
i would put the assymetry part of a knife info sticky =D

mhlee
03-23-2013, 01:05 AM
i would put the assymetry part of a knife info sticky =D

So, not in the Questionnaire?

franzb69
03-23-2013, 01:18 AM
well you could put the links to knife info, maintenance and etc. in the questionnaire so they can read up about it... less questions that way? i dunno.

mhlee
03-23-2013, 01:26 AM
It was a "yes" or "no" question.

Since it would require links, etc., and you don't have a simple answer for it, I'm taking the answer to be "no."

Zwiefel
03-23-2013, 02:00 AM
This is a big improvement, good work.


v.2 is better than v.1

I had to read this 3 times before I could see it wasn't a non-sequitur reading, "vg2 is better than vg1"...I was like, "OK, but WTH does that have to do with this questionnaire!?" :slaphead:

wenus2
03-23-2013, 02:09 AM
That's a no from me, Asym is well beyond the intro questions methinks. If the user knows this stuff they prolly don't need intro questions...

What do you think, is this more straightforward for the cutting board question-
Do you use a cutting board made of any of the following materials: wood, bamboo, nylon, rubber, or plastic? (yes/no)

Trial by fire? Let's put it in and see if people have trouble in any particular spot... it can always be revisited. Not like we are life and death here.

Thanks again for doing this Mike, I can tell you really put some time and thought into it
Regards.

mhlee
03-23-2013, 02:34 AM
That's a no from me, Asym is well beyond the intro questions methinks. If the user knows this stuff they prolly don't need intro questions...

What do you think, is this more straightforward for the cutting board question-
Do you use a cutting board made of any of the following materials: wood, bamboo, nylon, rubber, or plastic? (yes/no)

Trial by fire? Let's put it in and see if people have trouble in any particular spot... it can always be revisited. Not like we are life and death here.

Thanks again for doing this Mike, I can tell you really put some time and thought into it
Regards.

I forgot about nylon. I used "synthetic" to cover any other plastic-type material but I think those four pretty much cover the basics. I'll make this change.

Thanks.

chinacats
03-23-2013, 04:31 AM
Trial by fire? Let's put it in and see if people have trouble in any particular spot... it can always be revisited. Not like we are life and death here.

Thanks again for doing this Mike, I can tell you really put some time and thought into it
Regards.

:plus1:

77kath
03-23-2013, 08:31 AM
Put up a trial version and I will fill it out. Then see how useful it is for advice givers

rdpx
03-23-2013, 08:42 AM
It seems a bit long. Do you think that might put people off?

skiajl6297
03-23-2013, 09:03 AM
As a newbie who filled the old form out this fall, I think this is a great improvement. Thank you for doing this.

El Pescador
03-23-2013, 11:19 AM
Mike great work on this.

Dave Martell
03-23-2013, 01:16 PM
Looking good :)

Dave Martell
03-23-2013, 11:22 PM
So should we post this up and see how it goes?

chinacats
03-23-2013, 11:49 PM
I wonder if the links are set up as of yet. Questionnaire looks great though.

cookinstuff
03-24-2013, 01:36 AM
This looks great Mike, it can guide somebody who has no clue alot better than the old one. People get intimidated and bogged down with things they don't understand, and I think everything on that questionnaire is completely understandable to a non knut, my mother who uses a steak knife for everything she does could fill out that questionnaire and find herself a suitable knife. The old questionnaire, I can picture my mom going "oil a handle? I thought this was helping me pick a knife, not confuse the hell out of me." Let's not discourage the new members with complicated knife jargon, newcomers probably don't know what a choil is or what's the blade profile? Let alone assymetrical knife sharpening. New members will have plenty of access to info on how to maintain the knife once they get it, but I think the questionnaire should just help them find that knife, not how to maintain it, we have other posts for that.

Johnny.B.Good
03-24-2013, 01:49 AM
I would number the questions and/or put a space between each of them to make it a bit more easily digestible, but I think it's great.

ETA: Props to Eamon for the original questionnaire, and to Michael for the thoughtful revision.

Dave Martell
03-24-2013, 01:55 AM
Michael, once you get the links and whatever else done go ahead and post a new thread and I'll sticky it.

ThEoRy
03-24-2013, 01:56 AM
I think there's tmi in some parts for a newcomer. Newcomers may not even know knives can come with rounded spines and choils. Wth is a choil? Preferred balance? A newcomer may have no idea what a good balance point should be. Especially if they are coming from heavy blade forward clunky German steel.

I also don't think we should ask for a preference about asymmetry, however it should be mentioned so newbs have a simple heads up about it. Maybe briefly mention it then link to the asymmetry thread.

rdpx
03-24-2013, 09:54 AM
+1
I think it is good but could do with an edit to make it a bit shorter. TMI. I think you intended this as first draft for comments, and not final edit, is that right, Michael?

I don't think we should worry about the ridicule idea either - we should just not ridicule people for not knowing stuff - that's why they come here after all - to learn, right?


I think there's tmi in some parts for a newcomer. Newcomers may not even know knives can come with rounded spines and choils. Wth is a choil? Preferred balance? A newcomer may have no idea what a good balance point should be. Especially if they are coming from heavy blade forward clunky German steel.

I also don't think we should ask for a preference about asymmetry, however it should be mentioned so newbs have a simple heads up about it. Maybe briefly mention it then link to the asymmetry thread.

mhlee
03-24-2013, 03:19 PM
+1
I think it is good but could do with an edit to make it a bit shorter. TMI. I think you intended this as first draft for comments, and not final edit, is that right, Michael?

I don't think we should worry about the ridicule idea either - we should just not ridicule people for not knowing stuff - that's why they come here after all - to learn, right?

What should be edited then? How about going through the Questionnaire and changing every piece of information that you feel needs to be edited? Thanks.

The phrasing of nearly every question has been made in order to prevent any responding member from ridiculing an answer to the Questionnaire.

mhlee
03-24-2013, 03:19 PM
I think there's tmi in some parts for a newcomer. Newcomers may not even know knives can come with rounded spines and choils. Wth is a choil? Preferred balance? A newcomer may have no idea what a good balance point should be. Especially if they are coming from heavy blade forward clunky German steel.

I also don't think we should ask for a preference about asymmetry, however it should be mentioned so newbs have a simple heads up about it. Maybe briefly mention it then link to the asymmetry thread.

I'll remove the rounded choil part. However, I think the rounded spine part is pretty self explanatory. And, a sharp spine is a common criticism among users of other knives.

I think balance is also very self explanatory. People who I know that are beginners know what "balance" is.

Asymmetry will not be included. I will try to include a links to the Kitchen Knife Knowledge thread where there is a discussion about asymmetry. And, considering how a couple of people think the Questionnaire is already "TMI," adding information about asymmetry is not moving the Questionnaire in the right direction.

mhlee
03-24-2013, 03:43 PM
I'd like people to consider these points as to length.

The first Questionnaire had 17 questions, but only two "yes" or "no" questions. And based on the responses I've received here, and observed in response to members who completed the Questionnaire, it certainly seemed that the problem with the first Questionnaire was that it did not request enough information, including critical questions like "left or right handed", "length," "western or wa" handle, "stainless vs. non-stainless", country, and "are you interested in sharpening?" That's six additional questions that were critically missing from the first Questionnaire. So, to me, it seems that much of the perceived length of the Questionnaire, has to do with the questions including the proposed answers, rather than the actual number of questions, which is only five additional, non-critical questions.

Additionally, this Questionnaire has 28 questions (not including two lead up questions - Where do you intend to use the knife? What improvements do you want?). But, this Questionnaire has 8 "yes" or "no" questions which are inherently easier to respond to and take less time to respond to and multiple other single response questions, i.e. there's only one response out of two options. So, while the Questionnaire is longer, and although it may take more time to complete, the responses should be much more helpful, and require only similar effort (perhaps less because a person doesn't have to go to other links or threads to find out information necessary to respond to the questions) from the person completing the Questionnaire.

Again, please try completing this Questionnaire first as if you were a purchaser, and complete the original Questionnaire and compare your time, responses, ease of use, and practicality of the responses.

wenus2
03-24-2013, 05:37 PM
I think that yes, it requires some more effort, but is that a bad thing?
Shouldn't the user need to put a little effort in?
I don't want to spoon feed every Tom Dick and Harry that stops by, take that crap to the n00b forum. You have to be willing to put in at least the minimum effort if you are serious, and in this case it would be this questionnaire. As the great Jerry Maguire said, "Help me, help you!"

77kath
03-24-2013, 07:23 PM
Exactly!

rdpx
03-24-2013, 07:44 PM
How about going through the Questionnaire and changing every piece of information that you feel needs to be edited? Thanks.

It isn;t really a question of changing pieces of information, more of suggesting an edit of what you have proposed. I will be happy have a proper look at it when I have a chance to sit down properly over the next day or two and will make some suggestions, if you are sure that you would be happy with my doing that?

My initial feeling was that it was too long, but from comments here it seems that this extra length is welcomed by some, so maybe I am outside the herd there.

[I have been having a think about what could be included in a "basic idiot guide" as well - as wenus2 says not wanting to spoonfeed people take it to noob forum etc - but this is where the noobs will come to if they search and are lucky I guess, so a bit if spoonfeeding is going to be useful. It will take a few days to get time to come up with anything for that though.]

mhlee
03-24-2013, 09:44 PM
It isn;t really a question of changing pieces of information, more of suggesting an edit of what you have proposed. I will be happy have a proper look at it when I have a chance to sit down properly over the next day or two and will make some suggestions, if you are sure that you would be happy with my doing that?

My initial feeling was that it was too long, but from comments here it seems that this extra length is welcomed by some, so maybe I am outside the herd there.

[I have been having a think about what could be included in a "basic idiot guide" as well - as wenus2 says not wanting to spoonfeed people take it to noob forum etc - but this is where the noobs will come to if they search and are lucky I guess, so a bit if spoonfeeding is going to be useful. It will take a few days to get time to come up with anything for that though.]

Go ahead. Present your proposed revisions here and let's see what I and the members think.

chinacats
03-24-2013, 11:01 PM
I think it is pretty good as is, but I would like to see where the stated links actually lead. Overall, I really agree that if someone wants help that they need to be at least willing to put in some effort here so the number of questions doesn't seem too great. More importantly it really helps to keep everyone here from having to ask the same questions anyway which I believe is the original point.

Cheers

rdpx
03-28-2013, 12:25 PM
I have been reading through the revised questionnnaire and have decided it is probably best not to submit the whole document edited, so I will just give some of my ideas. As I suggested above, I think this draft is too long. Less is often more, and fewer words do not have to mean that less information is being solicited or imparted.


Here is a taste:


I would say would be it would probably greatly benefit from editing out the many lists of options. I understand that this is an attempt to have all answers contained within the questions, but leaving people with open questions might often lead to useful information that they might not otherwise offer up. I don't feel you need the long list of knives in the "what type" question (and if you do why no HONESUKI or SCIMITAR etc). As a more concrete example: the "Better aesthetics" list could be quite easily simplified to: "Aesthetics (eg: blade finish, handle finish etc)"

Why is REQUIRE in the stainless Q in bold? (The word REQUIRE seems strict enough anyway.)

I wouldn't get so concerned about the ABSOLUTE MAX BUDGET (and the qualifying sentence in brackets) - we all know these FIXED LIMITS can in reality, be extremely fluid.

The sharpening stone Qs seem a bit confusing "if yes if no go to p98 etc". The point of this is I guess to try and slowly lead the person to the inevitable realisation that he will need whetstones. As this is generally accepted, could we not just simplify this to something like:

[this is poorly phrased but just suggestion to keep it down]

"A. You will need to sharpen a J-knife - either this will need to be done professionally or you will need to but stones and learn to do it. Are you aware of this?
B. Do you own a whetstone/s already, or what is your budget to purchase stones?"


So that's my 2c so far. Please all feel free to comment. If you don't agree with anything then I am very fine with that, but please remember that these are just suggestions.

R

Chef Doom
03-29-2013, 01:03 AM
I would probably answer 5 or 6 questions before I submitted it. I read maybe 10 or so questions before I skipped ahead. But hey, maybe I just have a short attention span.

How about we scrap the whole thing and post what everybody is more or less thinking but afraid to say.

-----------------

For all noobs, Welcome To KKF! Please following the following instructions.

Step 1. You WILL buy a >$500 240mm or 270mm Wa-Gyuto from one of our forum vendors or the Buy/Sell/Trade section. (Shigafusa Kitaeji highly recommended for first purchase)

Step 2. You will buy a minimum set of 3 Japanese water stones ranging in coarse, medium, and high grit from one of our forum vendors. (A nice natural stone should be purchased last).

Step 3. Once your nice new knife is received, you will send your knife to one of our handle experts to have a new handle installed on your BRAND NEW KNIFE.

Step 4. Once your nice knew re-handled knife returns, you will send it back out to Dave (ex site owner, current vendor) to have it nicely thinned and sharpened.

Step 5. Once your knife returns for a second time, you will hang it on a magnet strip or slide it into a knife block to never be used. Only to be richly admired.

Step 6. Let the addiction start to set in.

Step 7. Repeat all steps with a different maker, vendor, and steel type until divorce papers are filed or family organizes an intervention.

Side Note: Having 10 or more gyutos of similar length is perfectly okay.

daveb
03-29-2013, 02:06 AM
You forgot the saya.

chinacats
03-29-2013, 03:55 AM
You forgot the saya.

and the new cutting board...

Chef Doom
03-31-2013, 04:24 AM
Damn it, there is always something you forget, no matter how much you try to check. Anyways, I'm just saying, might as well cut out the middleman and get to the point. I believe we need a questionnaire/instructions for our experienced members also.

--------------------------------------

Question 1: What is your budget?

a. If budget is less than $500, go to the BST thread, buy first knife you like if available. Please note some knives sell in mere minutes of initial post. Please check frequently. Every 15 minutes of every day should be acceptable.

b. If budget is more than $500, begin purchasing a custom. Please note many custom orders can take up to a decade plus or minus a year or two depending on the maker and their backlog. Patience is a very important virtue.

P.S. Make sure all purchases are hidden from spouse. Otherwise, convince self and spouse that purchase is acceptable with any of the following excuses.

1. We can pass the knife to our children.

2. It will be my early {birthday,christmas} present. Using father's day is not recommended for the obvious reasons.

3. Tool is needed to perform job which will benefit everyone. Jobs can be breaking down fish, making sushi, threaten kids to increase academic performance.

4. This will be the last one you swear.

rdpx
04-01-2013, 02:56 PM
Damn it, there is always something you forget, no matter how much you try to check. Anyways, I'm just saying, might as well cut out the middleman and get to the point. I believe we need a questionnaire/instructions for our experienced members also.

--------------------------------------

Question 1: What is your budget?

a. If budget is less than $500, go to the BST thread, buy first knife you like if available. Please note some knives sell in mere minutes of initial post. Please check frequently. Every 15 minutes of every day should be acceptable.

b. If budget is more than $500, begin purchasing a custom. Please note many custom orders can take up to a decade plus or minus a year or two depending on the maker and their backlog. Patience is a very important virtue.

P.S. Make sure all purchases are hidden from spouse. Otherwise, convince self and spouse that purchase is acceptable with any of the following excuses.

1. We can pass the knife to our children.

2. It will be my early {birthday,christmas} present. Using father's day is not recommended for the obvious reasons.

3. Tool is needed to perform job which will benefit everyone. Jobs can be breaking down fish, making sushi, threaten kids to increase academic performance.

4. This will be the last one you swear.




Sometimes it seems like Q for new members should be just:

"1. What length CarboNext Gyuto do you require?"


Are you still there Michael, by the way?

Chef Doom
04-01-2013, 04:36 PM
Sometimes it seems like Q for new members should be just:

"1. What length CarboNext Gyuto do you require?"


That's not true. I've seen people recommend a custom to new members depending on their budget. CarboNext is only one of the lower end knives people recommend and only because they hold back on what they really want to say.

On a serious note, I think the "What knives are you replacing" should be replaced with "What knives are you considering."

Often people will come straight to a forum with the intent of not doing any leg work because it's easier to have a person tell them what to buy. There are too many available vendors for a person to not have considered something. Besides, who cares what a person is replacing. I think the concept of replacing can be misleading. Most of the time knives don't get replaced. They get used less and less often and maybe given away or sold down the line. Who here actually threw away there older knives the day they got their first Japanese knife?

Somebody please explain to me how a person looking for their first J-knife who has a Henckle's or a Sabatier factors in your recommendations? I'm really curious. How many new people have you seen that said "I wish to replace my Artitsuga....please help?"

CompE
04-01-2013, 08:03 PM
Here's how I would revise it (please take this as constructive criticism, I mean no offense and don't want to see this go siedways). Take what you will, leave what you won't.

A couple of overall notes on my revision:
1) I tried to reduce the number parenthetical lists.
2) I removed the questions on styles and cutting board. I don't think that matters to which knife to buy, just if the noob needs to watch some youtube
3) I removed the section on listing desired improvement. Just about everyone wants just about everything. sharp as a light saber, dishwasher safe and slick as teflon. I replaced that with a question to rank the importance of such things.
4) I heavily modified the "knife maintenance" section; take it, modify it or leave it.
5) I dropped the "Country of origin" question just because I've never noticed anyone who cares. Anyway, if someone from Italy demands an Italian-made knife, what are we going to recommend?

<============================================>

Please refer to the Kitchen Knife Knowledge sub forum (LINK) and the Kitchen Knife Glossary thread (LINK) for general information, including types of knives and knife terminology, used in this questionnaire.
There’s no need to elaborate or explain your answer to a “yes” or “no” question. Let’s begin!
LOCATION
What country are you in?

KNIFE TYPE
* What type of knife do you want to buy (8" Chef's knife, 3" paring knife, etc...)?

* Blade thickness (thick, medium, thin)?

* Are you right or left handed?

*Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese (wa) handle?

*Do you require a stainless knife?

*What is your total budget?

KNIFE USE

* Where do you primarily intend to use this knife? At home or a professional environment?

* How many hours per day and days per week will you use this knife?

* What are the main tasks for this knife (chopping vegetables, slicing fish, splitting lobsters, all of the above, etc...)?

* What improvements do you want from your current knife?

* Rank the following:
Aesthetics
Comfort
Sharpness
Food release
Edge Retention
Ease of maintenance

* What aesthetic requirements do you have, if any? (i.e. hand-made, rustic/hammered finish, damasucs or single steel, mirror finish, exotic handle etc...)

KNIFE MAINTENANCE

* What level of effort are you willing put into maintaining your new knife (Select which of the following most closely describes you 0-5)?
(0) No effort. I'll never sharpen it. My cutting board is my countertop. I leave it on the counter until I'm ready to start the dishwasher which might be a day or more. I'll store it in the dishwasher until the next time I need it.
(1) Minimal effort. I'll occasionally hit it with a sharpening steel or use my electric can-opener's built-in sharpener. I own and use at least one steel, glass, stone or ceramic cutting board. I'll hand wash it after dinner. I'll store it in a drawer with my other knives.
(2) Low effort. I'll steel or strop it occasionally and mail it out for professional sharpening every few months. I'll use it on a designer bamboo or acacia wood cutting board. I'll hand wash and dry it immediately after I'm done for the day. I'll store it in a block, on a mag strip or in a knife roll.
(3) Intermediate effort. I'll strop the knife daily or every few days and sharpen it myself every week or every few weeks (depending on how heavily I use it). I use a wood, plastic or rubber cutting board. I'll rinse and dry the knife whenever I put it down for more than a moment, wash and dry when I'm completely done. I'll store it in a block, on a mag strip or in a knife roll.
(4) Large effort. I'll strop it often during use and sharpen it daily. I use an end-grain wood cutting board when possible, plastic or rubber when I'm worried about sanitation. I'll wipe it down between each cut and hand-wash and oil the blade and handle at the end of each day. I'll store it in a block, on a mag strip or in a knife roll.
(5) Extreme effort. On the rare occasion that it is used, I will wash, dry and strop it before and after each cut. I will only use end-grain cutting boards and I make sure that they use only the most knife-friendly woods and glues. Once I am done using it, it will be carefully polished before being returned to its rightful place; a custom case where supplicants can provide burnt offerings. I won't post a picture because that would steal its soul.

*Do you currently have the knowledge and equipment necessary to maintain your knife as above? If not, what do you need (cutting board, storage block, sharpening stones, training materials)? We will split your budget appropriately.

SPECIAL REQUESTS
Other information you'd like to provide?

sharkbite111
04-01-2013, 10:54 PM
and the new cutting board...

Just got mine in the mail today...LOL

Chris

WiscoNole
04-05-2013, 01:22 AM
the revised questions are good, but GOOD LORD are they long-winded! do we really need a full paragraph explanation of each question? talk about tedious!

JohnnyChance
04-05-2013, 01:43 AM
the revised questions are good, but GOOD LORD are they long-winded! do we really need a full paragraph explanation of each question? talk about tedious!

Agreed. I thought Eamon's original one was too long and had a bunch of unnecessary questions. I would get rid of all the parentheticals. And things like comfort, cutting style, maintenance, etc have almost no bearing on what knife will be recommended.

chinacats
04-05-2013, 02:51 AM
I almost would like to have an option here for the OP, maybe a long form or short form depending on which you feel will be of assistance. To ask about a gyuto, I think many here could live with maybe a few questions and go from there while some may prefer to offer more info to get better help. I do think the long form is improved for newbies though, but to make it easier to work through the answers, a suggestion would be to do the font in bold so when copied it stands out from the answers the poster is giving. Anyway, here's a short version for comparison--it could probably be shortened even more for many users:

Lefty or Righty?
Country where you reside?
What style of knife do you want?
Pro or home use?
Do you already own a J-blade?
What knives are you currently considering?
Do you sharpen? Do you wish advice about sharpening/maintenance?
Any other info you feel you can help us with e.g., profile, material, handle, length, weight, etc...
Finally, what is your budget?

Feel free to answer at length or leave out things you feel unnecessary.

Benuser
04-05-2013, 07:36 AM
Good proposal. Short, but all the basics are in. Not so discouraging and constraining as the complete form.

WiscoNole
04-05-2013, 11:44 AM
I think wa or western? is necessary.

mhlee
04-05-2013, 01:52 PM
Good proposal. Short, but all the basics are in. Not so discouraging and constraining as the complete form.

Now you're okay without a reference to asymmetry in there?

chinacats
04-05-2013, 02:16 PM
Now you're okay without a reference to asymmetry in there?

My idea wasn't to replace your form, just to allow more experienced users a shorter version...I believe (hope) most everyone here understands asymmetry. I think your version as it stands now is pretty damn good and more importantly inclusive of all pertinent info.

As to wa or western, yes I agree it should be included on both.

Cheers

Chef Doom
04-05-2013, 10:02 PM
Why would an experienced user even use a questionnaire in the first place?

rdpx
04-06-2013, 08:49 PM
Why would an experienced user even use a questionnaire in the first place?

Good point. And noobs might be overwhelmed? Still - some feedback seems pretty positive so I guess if it works? I haven't had chance to write a NOOB INTRO piece I am afraid - work has been busy this week but I will try to have a go when I get back from Spain in two weeks.

I think whatever we end up with will be just fine - I mean its all fun right, and we kind of enjoy running new members over the coals with the teeth sucking noises about cutting boards and needing to spend $300 on stones, right?

R ;)

Chef Doom
04-07-2013, 03:53 AM
After having a night or two to sleep on things I've come to the conclusion that the questionnaire is not long enough. I mean lets be serious, if a person is going to come to the forums for some experienced advice, then we should make sure that they are willing to put in the work, sweat, and effort to get quality advice. I think another 10 or 20 questions is in order. Not only that, but we should turn any yes or no question into a short essay. Let the NOOB lay out all of their thoughts, hopes, and dreams. I got a bunch of filler ready to go.

1. How did you find out about KKF?
2. How long have you been lurking around the forum like a leech before you posted your "What To Buy" question.
3. Will you be supporting our forum vendors for your purchase or will you be throwing your money away at the evil wicked other forum?
4. Do you have a wife/husband that will make you sleep on the couch when they find out how much money you "wasted" on your knew knife/stone/cutting board/handle/saya purchase?
5. Do you have a special work station to hold all of your stones for future sharpening?
6. Will you be taking your knives camping?
7. Will you be using it for self defense?
8. Do you think the other chefs you work with will make fun of you when you pull out your 6" chefs knife?
9. What is the minimum amount of money you wish to spend.

I have plenty more if you wish for me to continue.

jaybett
04-07-2013, 04:47 AM
I have plenty more if you wish for me to continue.

No

rdpx
04-07-2013, 11:31 AM
I have plenty more if you wish for me to continue.

10. How much are you prepared to spend on the first aid products that you will need when you discover just how sharp these knives really can get?

Chef Doom
04-07-2013, 01:41 PM
11. If you are not interested in attempting to learn freehand sharpening do not continue. We hate you, please go away. Please return when you have seen the light.

wenus2
04-07-2013, 02:59 PM
I have plenty more if you wish for me to continue.

I'm enjoying it.
:funfunfunfun:

Johnny.B.Good
04-07-2013, 03:34 PM
I have plenty more if you wish for me to continue.

If you can't resist, then start a new thread.

Chef Doom
04-07-2013, 07:41 PM
If you can't resist, then start a new thread.

Man why didn't I think of that before. I'm definitely going to do that. Can I start threads if I'm not a paying member?

SpikeC
04-07-2013, 08:25 PM
You will need to paypal 40 bucks to me then you can start a thread.......

Chef Doom
04-08-2013, 12:44 AM
Oh I see. I'm going to have to read the forum rules and regulations one of these days. Maybe it will keep me from asking redundant questions.

Anyone willing to accept $.50 to start a thread for me? Maybe even a bundle thread program with a $.25 wholesale price.

Who should I talk to to start a pay per thread program?

Nah, maybe I'll just pay up after all. I just gotta collect a few bottles and run to the recycle station. Let's see.....$40 divided by a nickle a bottle......