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maq
03-26-2013, 10:36 AM
Hi everyone first post here,

I am considering the Konosuke Fujiama Blue 2 gyuto. I would just like to hear some thoughts. I have seen lots of great testimonials about the White 1 and 2 series, but not a lot about the Blue 2.

Anyone have experience with this range? I am mainly concerned about edge retention, and reactivity of the blade (particularly the cladding).

Thanks for reading!

rdm_magic
03-26-2013, 10:48 AM
I'd just snag the one in B/S/T in white#1 right now if you're looking..

ThEoRy
03-26-2013, 10:58 AM
It's awesome. Really a fantastic cutter.

wsfarrell
03-26-2013, 12:14 PM
I have blue and white, and can't see major differences between them in edge-taking, edge-holding, or reactivity. I'm a home user, though, and don't give them the exercise they'd get in a pro kitchen. Incredible cutters.

El Pescador
03-26-2013, 06:46 PM
Very few if any people can tell the difference between White #2 and Blue #2. I would concur with recommending the B/S/T opportunity.

cclin
03-26-2013, 07:46 PM
according Hitachi Steel Co. in theory, Blue#2 is little more purify than White#2. therefore, the blue#2 have better edge retention, less food reactive, on the other hand, white#2 is easier to sharpening keen edge!
this is only in theory, different HT & knife maker may cause various result!!

ThEoRy
03-26-2013, 07:48 PM
They both sharpened up easily. No discernible difference. Sharpness? I got both of them screaming towards hell sharp. Retention? Slight edge to the blue, but to most people it would be almost indistinguishable especially in a pro environment.

labor of love
03-26-2013, 07:54 PM
according Hitachi Steel Co. in theory, Blue#2 is little more purify than White#2. therefore, the blue#2 have better edge retention, less food reactive, on the other hand, white#2 is easier to sharpening keen edge!
this is only in theory, different HT & knife maker may cause various result!!
i think blue 2 is just white 2 with added tungsten and chromium. which in theory should produce less reactivity and alittle better retention. in turn you sacrifice ease of sharpening and maybe some toughness?

K-Fed
03-26-2013, 07:58 PM
They both sharpened up easily. No discernible difference. Sharpness? I got both of them screaming towards hell sharp. Retention? Slight edge to the blue, but to most people it would be almost indistinguishable especially in a pro environment.

This has been my experience as well.

labor of love
03-26-2013, 08:05 PM
They both sharpened up easily. No discernible difference. Sharpness? I got both of them screaming towards hell sharp. Retention? Slight edge to the blue, but to most people it would be almost indistinguishable especially in a pro environment.

maybe it was just the heat treat or something else, but actually the difference to me besides retention was that blue steel seems at its best with a 2-4k toothy finish while white seems to really shine with a 6-8 finish.

cclin
03-26-2013, 08:14 PM
i think blue 2 is just white 2 with added tungsten and chromium. which in theory should produce less reactivity and alittle better retention. in turn you sacrifice ease of sharpening and maybe some toughness?
according Hitachi Steel Co. information, "JIS SK steel">purify>"yellow#2">purify>"white#2">purify & added C, Cr>blue#2

labor of love
03-26-2013, 08:17 PM
chromium is cr.

cclin
03-26-2013, 08:22 PM
chromium is cr.

I know!

labor of love
03-26-2013, 09:03 PM
whats C?

chinacats
03-26-2013, 09:20 PM
carbon...

labor of love
03-26-2013, 11:29 PM
carbon...
awesome!

El Pescador
03-26-2013, 11:54 PM
awesome!

I learn something here every day! C is for Carbon, who knew!

maq
03-27-2013, 01:08 AM
maybe it was just the heat treat or something else, but actually the difference to me besides retention was that blue steel seems at its best with a 2-4k toothy finish while white seems to really shine with a 6-8 finish.

This is new to me. I am going to try it out and see.

dubie
03-28-2013, 02:16 AM
is this Konosuke a pure blue2 or clad?

Von blewitt
03-28-2013, 02:51 AM
Clad

keithsaltydog
03-29-2013, 04:52 PM
If you don't mind the coin go for it,nice Ebony handle.

labor of love
04-03-2013, 01:56 PM
according Hitachi Steel Co. information, "JIS SK steel">purify>"yellow#2">purify>"white#2">purify & added C, Cr>blue#2

okay it took me a while to find this, but in this link J Broida explains that blue steel is white steel with added tungsten and chromium.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/7794-please-tell-me-more-about-Shiro-ko-3(white-3)?highlight=hitachi

cclin
04-03-2013, 02:46 PM
okay it took me a while to find this, but in this link J Broida explains that blue steel is white steel with added tungsten and chromium.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/7794-please-tell-me-more-about-Shiro-ko-3(white-3)?highlight=hitachi

I don't want to say Jon is wrong, maybe somethings I didn't know about!! however, I can't find any information about blue steel added tungsten....if you go Hitachi steel CO. Japan web site, you can find lots white/ blue steel composition and no tungsten at all!!
check HERE (https://sites.google.com/site/vorpalcustomknives/shop-techniques-3/info-about-hitachi-cutlery-steels-blue-white) (white/ blue steel composition in English)& open "Specification of YSS High class Cutlery steel.pdf" file..see it youself!!

NO ChoP!
04-03-2013, 03:08 PM
There's definitely tungsten in aogami super....

NO ChoP!
04-03-2013, 03:10 PM
As well as vanadium and molybdenum...

cclin
04-03-2013, 03:16 PM
:Osorry I made mistake!! blue do added tungsten!! my bad!!please ignore my last posted!!Jon is correct![/B]
I don't want to say Jon is wrong, maybe somethings I didn't know about!! however, I can't find any information about blue steel added tungsten....if you go Hitachi steel CO. Japan web site, you can find lots white/ blue steel composition and no tungsten at all!!
check [B]HERE (https://sites.google.com/site/vorpalcustomknives/shop-techniques-3/info-about-hitachi-cutlery-steels-blue-white) (white/ blue steel composition in English)& open "Specification of YSS High class Cutlery steel.pdf" file..see it youself!!

JBroida
04-03-2013, 03:18 PM
hitachi states it on their website... (fyi wolfram=tungsten)

cclin
04-03-2013, 03:22 PM
hitachi states it on their website... (fyi wolfram=tungsten)

sorry! Jon, your correct!! I made huge mistake....I'm geting old.....
@labor, sorry for confuse you!!

Mateyhv
02-17-2014, 05:17 AM
Old post but same question. From the pics on CKTG the Konosuke Fujiyama White #1 Gyuto and Konosuke Fujiyama White #2 Gyuto both have a low secondary bevel. Konosuke Fujiyama Blue #2 Gyuto has a higher eye candy secondary bevel. All in 240cm length.

Can someone tell if there is any real difference between both bevel types and is there some reason for that difference? I would rather prefer a Fujiyama White #1 with the Fuji Blue #2 bevel.

I have read Kono Fujiyama Gyutos run shorter on heel to tip like 230cm, can someone confirm that?

Thanks

jigert
02-17-2014, 05:58 AM
my 240 fuji white 2 runs about 230mm long. I'll leave the bevel question to someone else. But I can say that you won't be sorry if you go with the white 2

ThEoRy
02-17-2014, 11:25 PM
Who cares about factory edge? I just sharpen it how I want anyway.

toddnmd
02-18-2014, 12:12 AM
Yes, a 240 Kono is typically in the low 230s.

I believe the pics are accurate--the bevels are different between the blue and white. That seems to be pretty consistent among the offerings, if you compare the same blade type between b#2, w#2, and w#1.

Kono Fujis seem to get near universal praise.

NO ChoP!
02-18-2014, 12:58 AM
If they did them in stainless clad, I'd sell my entire kit....

keithsaltydog
02-18-2014, 03:16 AM
One of the culinary students I taught freehand to last semester bought the Konosuke Fujiyama Blue#2 Funayuki Gyuto 240mm.When he showed it to me my jaw dropped.Beautiful knife bold Hamon line.I guess a few of these students have deep pockets.Love the blk handle,tall bevels,thinness behind the edge.

Mateyhv
02-18-2014, 04:59 AM
Who cares about factory edge? I just sharpen it how I want anyway.

Its about the bevel, not the edge


Yes, a 240 Kono is typically in the low 230s.

I believe the pics are accurate--the bevels are different between the blue and white. That seems to be pretty consistent among the offerings, if you compare the same blade type between b#2, w#2, and w#1...

Thats what I am curious about :eyebrow: I can't see any practical reason.

ThEoRy
02-18-2014, 06:25 AM
Its about the bevel, not the edge





I know, I'm just saying who cares what the factory does? If you want the white, get the white then make the bevel as big as you want it. The difference between the white and blue fujiyama I used was simple, the white sharpened up a little faster but the blue held its edge a little longer. Both fantastic cutters, really you can't go wrong either way.

Mateyhv
02-18-2014, 07:50 AM
I know, I'm just saying who cares what the factory does? If you want the white, get the white then make the bevel as big as you want it. The difference between the white and blue fujiyama I used was simple, the white sharpened up a little faster but the blue held its edge a little longer. Both fantastic cutters, really you can't go wrong either way.

Thanks, that is an interesting approach, however I am not confident enough to attempt a bevel change in a $400 knife, at least not until I have a couple more years of sharpening experience but I might consider it. Nice comprarision between white and blue steels.

NO ChoP!
02-18-2014, 08:37 AM
Not sure how one would transform a small bevel into a wide bevel. That's some serious alterations, Theory.

masibu
02-18-2014, 08:49 AM
For a gyuto, I personally prefer blue to white although differences are fairly minor. I believe white can take a more stellar edge more readily than blue but it won't last quite as long (blue steel certainly isnt difficult to sharpen at all btw). With a gyuto making regular board contact and depending on how you treat your knives, you could find yourself dulling white knives easier than blue knives (in general anyway). I like white steel for a slicer which makes less board contact. I generally use it for proteins which are not so acidic and therefore I get less reactivity problems as well.

If you don't feel comfortable setting a bevel yet and are happy with the bevel size of the fujiyama blue, I would roll with it. Practice sharpening with a medium grit stone until you feel comfortable using a coarser one and you may surprise yourself how comfortable you feel setting a new bevel after a while. There are plenty of sharpening videos out there to do this, although Jon's are probably the most recommended.

NO ChoP!
02-18-2014, 09:17 AM
I think some are not understanding what a wide bevel knife is. The Fujiyama white steel and blue steel differ greatly in geometry. The wide bevel is actually part of the geometry of the knife, not just a "bevel" that can be set with a course stone.

It's like saying you can turn your sujihiki into a yanagi with simple sharpening.

Mateyhv
02-18-2014, 11:09 AM
I think some are not understanding what a wide bevel knife is. The Fujiyama white steel and blue steel differ greatly in geometry. The wide bevel is actually part of the geometry of the knife, not just a "bevel" that can be set with a course stone...

That is exactly what my question was about! It is difficult to understand how great the difference in bevels is without a picture of each knife (I can't load pics but you can find them on CKTG site), and I wonder if there is some reason for that difference. Maybe I am wrong thinking they are the same knife with a different steel. Maybe they are simply quite similar knives :dontknow:

toddnmd
02-18-2014, 12:15 PM
Maybe I am wrong thinking they are the same knife with a different steel.

The bevels, as shown in the pics are definitely different; they are not the same knife with a different steel. I remember looking at the nakiris in blue and one of the whites (can't remember which), and noticed it was the same pic (could tell from the marbling in the buffalo horn ferrule). I asked MR about it, and he then updated the white pic, and the bevel was clearly different from the blue.

I'll let some more experience folks explain the performance differences between the wider and narrower bevels, and the reasons why the blacksmith who makes these does them differently. (I trust that it is done for a good reason.) I don't think it would be a good idea to buy the white and then try to reset the bevel to be like the blue.

I've seen quite a few people mention that white is a bit easier to sharpen, and blue has slightly better edge retention, but that most people won't notice that much of a difference.

The main complaint I've seen about the Kono Fujis is that the price has risen a fair amount over the past few years, so they used to be a better deal than they are now. But people who have bought them more recently still seem to be very happy with their performance.

NO ChoP!
02-18-2014, 12:38 PM
The biggest advantage to a wide bevel is the ease in sharpening while maintaining the geometry.

With a small bevel, one must consider thinning behind the edge, through eyeballing to keep the geometry with each sharpening.

A wide bevel is almost built-in...

Timthebeaver
02-18-2014, 12:59 PM
I think the way that Konosuke gets the grinding done on these has changed. Older Fujiyamas didn't have the large secondary bevel, iirc. The new Konosuke ginsankos have the large secondary bevel too. I'm sure getting a white steel Fujiyama with the secondary bevel wouldn't be a problem if you specified it.

Oddly, Mizuno did something similar with their grinds. The old Akitada hontanren knives didn't have large secondary bevels, now they do.

ThEoRy
02-18-2014, 02:20 PM
Not sure how one would transform a small bevel into a wide bevel. That's some serious alterations, Theory.

I was thinking belt grinder but yeah, that's a huge project. Risky one at that. Really I would just sharpen the knives similar to how I sharpen a single bevel knife but it would be a hamaguri edge on both sides.

Mateyhv
02-19-2014, 12:10 PM
To be honest, I just looked thoroughly the pictures of all three Fujiyama 240 gyutos on CKTG and they all have different bevels, easy to spot on the heel :detective: The smallest goes to white #1, medium to white #2 (it might be the picture angle in the whites), and the widest to blue #2. The difference is really big so now I feel like each one is made in a different workshops, otherwise the inconsistency is quite puzzling. :knife:

Lefty
02-19-2014, 12:14 PM
I'm pretty sure the maker has changed for these knives, based on pictures. I have experience with the old style (small bevel), and they look nothing like the new ones with the Heiji or Kagekiyo style secondary bevel.

NO ChoP!
02-19-2014, 12:20 PM
So, word on the street is the blue, honyaki blue, and ginsanko are wide bevel. White steel and the classic Konosukes are all small bevel.

Bikeman
02-19-2014, 12:24 PM
I have a 6 month old Kono Fuji White2 and the secondary bevel is not that dramatic. The knife is a great performer and a favorite of mine! What is the purpose of the larger secondary bevel does add to the performance of the blade ?

NO ChoP!
02-19-2014, 12:35 PM
I think it helps keep the edge extremely thin. It's also like a built-in guide for thinning while sharpening.

lucabrasi
02-19-2014, 12:45 PM
I'm pretty sure it's been stated that the white fujiyamas and blue fujiyamas are different blacksmiths. Stated with some certainty over there.

Bikeman
02-19-2014, 01:56 PM
Is the difference in blacksmiths the reason for the price difference or is it the cost of the material? The blue#2 is more expensive than the price of the White#2 that I have.

Mateyhv
02-19-2014, 02:19 PM
Is the difference in blacksmiths the reason for the price difference or is it the cost of the material? The blue#2 is more expensive than the price of the White#2 that I have.

I think the difference is in the steel not the blacksmith, the blue#2 and white#1 are equally priced. Well sharpened I don't think there could be felt any difference between the three steel flavours, at least not without doing a controlled experiment with them side by side and even though the difference should be minimal.

keithsaltydog
02-19-2014, 05:37 PM
Well after seeing this blade in person & putting an edge on it,one of the most beautiful chef knives I have ever seen(I know tastes differ)I took the plunge & ordered the Blue #2 Konosuke Fujiyama 240mm,I might of gone wt. the 270mm but it was sold out.Anyway have a 270mm Takeda fr. Pavel awesome blade.

This is the most I have ever paid for a chef's knife,even more than my Tamahagane blade fr. A-Frames.Feel like I've gone over the deep end like some other's on this forum.My lust for Japanese forged carbon blades continues:D

Mateyhv
02-19-2014, 08:14 PM
Well after seeing this blade in person & putting an edge on it,one of the most beautiful chef knives I have ever seen(I know tastes differ)I took the plunge & ordered the Blue #2 Konosuke Fujiyama 240mm...

Would be great to see some pics of that beauty :drool:

panda
02-20-2014, 12:52 AM
i like the grind on the kono blues.

keith, what the heck is tamahagane?

keithsaltydog
02-20-2014, 05:43 AM
Tamahagane steel is made fr. acome iron sands fired in a tatara oven heated to high temps fueled with charcoal.

The best steel ever put into Samurai Swords is Tamahagane-Very high end swords are still made with it.It is very rare in kitchen knives because of the labor intensive & expertize required to fire & forge it.

I watched on PBS these brothers in their late 80's making the oven creating the steel pounding & folding clay tempering a blade just like the one I bought.It is super thin & light weight takes a razor edge.After I use it clean it & polish it with a sword kit.I totally admit that I am guilty of being a fan of Japanese forged carbon steel & bought this knife fr. A-Frames because of the real rareness of it ,forging process & esp. the steel itself.:O

panda
02-20-2014, 03:23 PM
sounds silly expensive. how does it compare with modern steels in usage? i take it this is just a novelty buy for you.

keithsaltydog
02-20-2014, 07:29 PM
I paid 365.00 for it.The only other site i found it was 500.00,so I got it cheaper at A-Frames. It is very thin wt. tall assem bevels,every time I use it just glides effortless thru food.I have not used it except for home lunch & dinner prep so cannot say how the edge holds up after hours of cutting.But so far it has held a crisp sharp edge for quite a while.

I don't know if novelty is how I'd put it,but yes deff. got it for the forging process & steel.I do not know if it performs better than the best modern steels,but it's a solid performer in the short term.

I am the kind of knife nerd that enjoys using a Tamahagane steel knife to prep dinner on an end grain cutting board.:D

Chef Doom
02-21-2014, 11:43 PM
keithsaltydog, are you sure your knife isn't the Tamahagane brand? I find it hard to believe that you purchased a chef knife for that price.

cclin
02-22-2014, 02:21 AM
keithsaltydog, are you sure your knife isn't the Tamahagane brand? I find it hard to believe that you purchased a chef knife for that price.
not all Tamahagane steel create equally, there are 4 classes of Tamahagane steel in Japan-1A,2A,1B,2B. Both 1B & 2B Tamahagane aren't that expensive. older Tamahagane steel is very rare and more pure!

I received my new Konosuke Fujiyama blue#2 not long ago, I love the ebony handle, F/F is top-notch. great geometry, very even grind, shinogi line & wide bevel are all flawless done. behind the edge is extreme thin but little fragile; therefore, I put hamaguri edge on it as soon as I received the knife.
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s482/54cclin/20140216_134956_zpsdb00c137.jpg (http://s1054.photobucket.com/user/54cclin/media/20140216_134956_zpsdb00c137.jpg.html)
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s482/54cclin/20140216_135550_zps38460fa2.jpg (http://s1054.photobucket.com/user/54cclin/media/20140216_135550_zps38460fa2.jpg.html)

keithsaltydog
02-22-2014, 02:31 AM
No way that stuff is crap compared to mine.Like I said the same knife was 500.00 on another site.I got the longer Santoku type blade.Most of the Tamanagane blades the brother's make are on the smaller side.A-Frames has a couple 210mm wa gyuto for 595.00

They look pretty rough,he explains this in his discription of the blades.I am sure that turns most people off.My blade has a few small imperfections,but it is a superb cutter.I can say with my use of this blade so far that this steel is excellent it is not just a bunch of hype.

Chef you can check it out on A-Frames I have a picture on- show your newest knife thread use drop down arrow page 105 if you like.I have used carbons only at work close to 30 yrs. I know carbons,really like this knife.

keithsaltydog
02-22-2014, 02:36 AM
Very nice cclin mine is in the mail looking foward to it.

cclin
02-22-2014, 02:55 AM
Very nice cclin mine is in the mail looking foward to it.
I'm very satisfy with mine! looking foward to hear your thought.

Mangelwurzel
02-22-2014, 06:08 AM
Very nice cclin! Did you specifically order it with a lefty grind?

cclin
02-22-2014, 07:29 AM
Very nice cclin! Did you specifically order it with a lefty grind?
Camera illusion! I had angle my camera slightly to focus on extreme thin very edge. the grind is very close to 50/50, my phone's "Angle Meter" APP can't tell the different between left side & right side. the knife suitable for either right or left handed users.

marc4pt0
02-22-2014, 08:35 AM
Just got mine last night. Very much looking forward to seeing how this handles

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a520/marc4pt0/Konosuke/Konosuke_zps16aa51ba.jpg

Jordanp
02-22-2014, 09:43 AM
Gah this thread makes me want a fujiyama so bad lol must resist :(

Ruso
02-22-2014, 11:58 AM
Does Konosuke disclose who the actual blacksmith is?

panda
02-22-2014, 10:43 PM
I grindis so sweet, I would get one if they were taller.

keithsaltydog
02-23-2014, 02:21 AM
Mine just arrived,such a fine blade,like the weight,not a lazor,little heft,super thin behind the edge.Look forward to cutting with it.

Mateyhv
02-25-2014, 07:12 AM
...I received my new Konosuke Fujiyama blue#2 not long ago, I love the ebony handle, F/F is top-notch. great geometry, very even grind, shinogi line & wide bevel are all flawless done. behind the edge is extreme thin but little fragile; therefore, I put hamaguri edge on it as soon as I received the knife.
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s482/54cclin/20140216_134956_zpsdb00c137.jpg (http://s1054.photobucket.com/user/54cclin/media/20140216_134956_zpsdb00c137.jpg.html)
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s482/54cclin/20140216_135550_zps38460fa2.jpg (http://s1054.photobucket.com/user/54cclin/media/20140216_135550_zps38460fa2.jpg.html)


Just got mine last night. Very much looking forward to seeing how this handles

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a520/marc4pt0/Konosuke/Konosuke_zps16aa51ba.jpg

I am being picky again! cclin, I don't know if it its camera illusion again but comparing your Fuji to the pictures of marc4pt0 it looks like having a lower bevel. Easy to identify from the distance between shinogi line and kanji. All pictures of 240cm Fujiyama blue #2 have a characteristic wide bevel almost touching the tang. The white #2 Fujis are have a very narrow bevel. Yours seem to be in the middle of both steels. The pics at CKTG show the same wide bevel as marc4pt0's knife. Is that inconsistency normal for japanese knives?

cclin
02-25-2014, 08:24 AM
I am being picky again! cclin, I don't know if it its camera illusion again but comparing your Fuji to the pictures of marc4pt0 it looks like having a lower bevel. Easy to identify from the distance between shinogi line and kanji. All pictures of 240cm Fujiyama blue #2 have a characteristic wide bevel almost touching the tang. The white #2 Fujis are have a very narrow bevel. Yours seem to be in the middle of both steels. The pics at CKTG show the same wide bevel as marc4pt0's knife. Is that inconsistency normal for japanese knives?
I forgot to mention mine is Fujiyama blue #2 Bunka with much wider Blade Height about 55mm compare to Fujiyama blue #2 gyuto Blade Height only about 50mm.

Mateyhv
02-25-2014, 09:14 AM
I forgot to mention mine is Fujiyama blue #2 Bunka with much wider Blade Height about 55mm compare to Fujiyama blue #2 gyuto Blade Height only about 50mm.

Thanks, that makes sense :thumbsup: actually the clue was in the shadow.

Lefty
02-25-2014, 12:56 PM
The smith is a secret, I believe.

Mateyhv
03-03-2014, 01:18 PM
One last question, I suppose the cladding is iron on those Fujiyamas, what about reactivity in daily use?

toddnmd
03-03-2014, 02:19 PM
One last question, I suppose the cladding is iron on those Fujiyamas, what about reactivity in daily use?

Definitely some when new, but with some initial care and a bit of effort, it's entirely manageable. And gets much easier with time.

James
03-03-2014, 04:33 PM
Out of curiosity, has anyone compared these with the konosuke ginsanko knives? They look very similar and I'd prefer stainless cladding

Timthebeaver
03-03-2014, 06:06 PM
Out of curiosity, has anyone compared these with the konosuke ginsanko knives? They look very similar and I'd prefer stainless cladding

Ground by the same craftsman, hence the similarity. Forged by a different smith.

shipbuilder
03-13-2014, 10:10 AM
I have three and they are my go-to knives for prep, despite having a rack full of Takedas, Katos, Richmonds, etc. Take a super edge, hold it well and are lovely in the hand. Just be sure to keep them wiped as you use them.