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Dave Martell
03-26-2013, 02:34 PM
Hello everyone,
I’m pleased to announce that KitchenKnifeForums.com has been purchased by Group Builder, Inc and will be managed by them from this point on.

The new owners specialize in acquiring and maintaining niche market discussion groups like what we've built here at KKF. They've been doing this for a long time and have the proper resources to deal with the maintenance & upgrade requirements necessary to keep a growing forum active and thriving.

I feel that this move is a good thing as it will bring future expansion to us yet we’ll still maintain our small community feel that we've cultivated here. The new owners assure me that they mean to keep things as normal as possible for us and I believe their intentions to be true.

On a personal note, running a forum has been found to be a lot of work, much more than I could have ever imagined, it’s put a strain on my business, my personal life, and my nerves. I've found it difficult to have to moderate (and even ban) customers and friends and the time requirements are extreme to say the least – something needed to change. I look forward to transferring the time spent operating the forum towards efforts in my business by moving forward with many overdue projects and plans as well as I hope to be able to take part in more of the discussions than I've previously had time for. I have a lot that I can contribute but I've not been able to – again I felt that this needed change. While I will remain on as a moderator for only another month I will not be going anywhere, I’ll remain as an active vendor as I always have.

Moving forward, I ask that you give the same considerations and help to the new owners, that you've given to me in the past. I have full confidence in the new owners’, along with our moderators’, ability to support and run the forums as need be and you should feel confident here as well. Please join me in welcoming aboard Group Builder, Inc, as well as our new administrator Austin McLendon, and let’s look towards a fresh start with these folks.

Thanks for making KKF the great community that it is!

Regards,
Dave

Austin
03-26-2013, 02:45 PM
Dave,

Thank you for the introduction! I want to start by saying nothing will change. We've been running on our servers for over 24 hours now and things are running smoothly.

If for some reason you do see something out of place or you think something is not quite right please let me know and I will get it taken care of.

You guys have built up a great community and I'm quite pleased to be a part of it. I've known of your community for some time, but have always stayed on as a lurker.

A little about me, for most of my working career I've been in kitchens, my last job being a kitchen manager for a local eatery called Mangia Pizza, which received some national attention when we competed for the world's longest unbroken chain of pizzas. Here's a video from the production line.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpg4Hyx_eTg

Aside from Mangia I've been in a half dozen or so kitchens as everything from a line cook to a manager (with a little time waiting when needed). I currently own a set of non name brand Santoku, and have a retired 15" chef knife from my kitchen days that I recently started working with again. I love cooking and I love knives. I know I'm going to love being here too.

Again, thank you all for having me and I look forward to getting to know you all.

Austin

Patatas Bravas
03-26-2013, 02:50 PM
Best of luck! Can we expect any changes or improvements here?

Austin
03-26-2013, 02:53 PM
I have no intention of making any changes. What do you mean by improvements?

Zwiefel
03-26-2013, 02:56 PM
Dave,

Thanks for the wonderful service you have provided here for the past few years. As someone in IT who has managed a smaller-scale version of this, I know how much of a burden it is. I hope you can get back to your core business with even more enthusiasm and energy.

Austin,

I'll give you the standard greeting: welcome to KKF! I'd ask you what you are looking to buy, but it seems you've already done it! Looking forward to continuing to love and enjoy this community.

Z

Austin
03-26-2013, 02:58 PM
Thank you Z!

I will be looking into purchasing a higher end knife here in the near future. I've kept my older ones in good shape form when I started cooking, but I've always wanted something more ornate and I see a lot of guys here offer them.

Patatas Bravas
03-26-2013, 03:12 PM
I have no intention of making any changes. What do you mean by improvements?

Improvements - just a general question. If administration of a site changes, then perhaps the site changes somewhat too. In any case, in my opinion you have found a great niche site to invest in and be involved in. I'm curious how things will go. ;)

ajhuff
03-26-2013, 03:14 PM
Looking forward to the new ownership.

-AJ

Jim
03-26-2013, 03:14 PM
Welcome aboard Austin, I am looking forward to working with you and the new team.

Dave, many, many thanks for all your hard work and sacrifice building this fine community. Having you back in the shop working is going to be fun with all the projects on the table.

wsfarrell
03-26-2013, 03:15 PM
Since Group Builder purchased the forum, I'm wondering if they plan to recoup that investment by putting ads on the forum, increasing vendor fees, or something similar.

PierreRodrigue
03-26-2013, 03:16 PM
Welcome Austin!

Austin
03-26-2013, 03:18 PM
Improvements - just a general question. If administration of a site changes, then perhaps the site changes somewhat too. In any case, in my opinion you have found a great niche site to invest in and be involved in. I'm curious how things will go. ;)

I am too. If I do make any changes I let everyone know and then it's only in terms of additional features, or things the community request. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Patatas Bravas
03-26-2013, 03:20 PM
I tried to log in maybe a couple days ago and there was a mysterious 'data backup in progress' message. Maybe this explains it? ;)

Burl Source
03-26-2013, 03:20 PM
Dave,
I fully understand the difficulty of going in too many different directions at the same time.
I am grateful for everything you have done and wish you the best of luck with your business.
Now get to work, make knives and post lots of photos.
We have needs.

Austin,
I am curious if you would be willing to tell us of the other forums owned by Group Builder, Inc.
Does the current income of the forum generate enough income to justify your purchase of the forum?
Will the membership fees be changing? Will we start seeing advertising?
I am curious because there has to be some sort of motivation for making the purchase of KKF.

BTW: yesterday I got a pop up stating the need to install a certain Active X script. I just backed out of the page and did not return.

don
03-26-2013, 03:22 PM
Austin: Welcome!

Dave: Thanks for creating KKF and actively working on building the community. Happy that you're going to have time for your business. I have some knives to send you :)

apicius9
03-26-2013, 03:24 PM
Welcome Austin, Glad to hear you have some connection to our topic and intend to keep things as they are because I think they have been great so far. Also glad to see that Dave gets a break, I am sure he can use it.

That said, I may be a bit naive when it comes to business things, so I am just asking 'What's in it for you?', i.e. what does a company get from buying forums. Will there be advertising? Fees? Trading of 'customer information'? Just curious,

Stefan

PS You guys all type faster than I can on my phone ;)

clayton
03-26-2013, 03:25 PM
Dave, thanks for all the amazing work and service! Truly appreciated.

Austin, welcome!

jigert
03-26-2013, 03:25 PM
Thanks Dave for all the time and effort you've put into KKF!
And welcome Austin!

wsfarrell
03-26-2013, 03:29 PM
As a guess, ads are coming:

Group Builder Advertise (http://www.groupbuilder.com/advertise/)

WildBoar
03-26-2013, 03:30 PM
Interesting turn of events. Welcome, Austin.

I'm hoping the forum stays free of advertising banners, etc. and the annual contribution amount does not change. Agree 100% with the 'if it ain't broke...'

But I suspect it is just wishful thinking.

Austin
03-26-2013, 03:30 PM
I tried to log in maybe a couple days ago and there was a mysterious 'data backup in progress' message. Maybe this explains it? ;)

That's what it was.


Dave,
I fully understand the difficulty of going in too many different directions at the same time.
I am grateful for everything you have done and wish you the best of luck with your business.
Now get to work, make knives and post lots of photos.
We have needs.

Austin,
I am curious if you would be willing to tell us of the other forums owned by Group Builder, Inc.
Does the current income of the forum generate enough income to justify your purchase of the forum?
Will the membership fees be changing? Will we start seeing advertising?
I am curious because there has to be some sort of motivation for making the purchase of KKF.

Here's a link to our corporate page.

http://groupbuilder.com/

For the record GroupBuilder is a three strong company. Keith, the other Admin in the network and I grew up together in the same small town and have been friends now over half of our lives. We joined up a few years ago out of a love of our communities and have been moving forward as GroupBuilder from that point forward.

I came across KKF when I was looking for a new knife. As I said in my intro I cooked commercially for many years, but now that I'm only cooking at home for friends and family and I want to get a better knife. I read through a few threads, really liked the community, and you know the rest.

ajhuff
03-26-2013, 03:36 PM
Hoping for more openness and less heavy handed censorship.

-AJ

Austin
03-26-2013, 03:38 PM
Welcome Austin, Glad to hear you have some connection to our topic and intend to keep things as they are because I think they have been great so far. Also glad to see that Dave gets a break, I am sure he can use it.

That said, I may be a bit naive when it comes to business things, so I am just asking 'What's in it for you?', i.e. what does a company get from buying forums. Will there be advertising? Fees? Trading of 'customer information'? Just curious,

Stefan

PS You guys all type faster than I can on my phone ;)

I do not, have not, and will never sell information. I see that a violation of trust. Advertising will not change, fees will not change.


As a guess, ads are coming:

Group Builder Advertise (http://www.groupbuilder.com/advertise/)

We will not be adding advertisements, the Vendor relationship setup Dave has fostered will suffice, no additional ads or increase in rates will be done.

Patatas Bravas
03-26-2013, 03:55 PM
Hoping for more openness and less heavy handed censorship.

-AJ

Yes, it is probably more reasonable and better that the forum is controlled by a person or party that is not a vendor, so long as the person/party is genuinely interested in the forum topic and community.

Burl Source
03-26-2013, 04:01 PM
One last question.
My vendor membership fees are set up to be paid automatically with Paypal on a quarterly basis.
What do those of us like myself need to do to insure payments are going to the correct place?

SpikeC
03-26-2013, 04:08 PM
Welcome to the Knut House, Austin!
Dave, thanks for all the stuff!

Austin
03-26-2013, 04:09 PM
You will need to cancel your old KKF Subscription and re-sign up like you did before, same terms and process. However, I will send you a PM as well as all Vendors with additional information.

geezr
03-26-2013, 04:18 PM
:viking:THANK YOU DAVE:viking:
Welcome Austin & Co.

Chef Doom
03-26-2013, 04:23 PM
Dave, since I know you have extra cash in your pocket right now...can I borrow $5....for a hamburger?.....I will pay you back next Tuesday. :justkidding:

Marko Tsourkan
03-26-2013, 04:24 PM
Are the vendor fees to stay comparable to what we paid, or is it up to the new owner?

Austin
03-26-2013, 04:28 PM
There will be no changes in Vendor fees. Same package, same rates.

DevinT
03-26-2013, 04:34 PM
I have no intention of making any changes. What do you mean by improvements?

Free pizza?

Welcome to the KKF.

Hoss

Keith Neal
03-26-2013, 04:34 PM
Good luck, Dave, and thanks for your fine work here.

Welcome aboard, Austin.

Austin
03-26-2013, 04:38 PM
Free pizza?

Welcome to the KKF.

Hoss

I wish! I can't even get it anymore!


Good luck, Dave, and thanks for your fine work here.

Welcome aboard, Austin.

Thank you!

Mike9
03-26-2013, 04:49 PM
Welcome aboard Austin.

So Dave now that you're one of us . . . :bat: . . . . :justkidding: Seriously - I hope you are able to catch up with life. Believe me I've been that busy in many directions at once and it's not fun. Congrats on the sale and really welcome aboard. :knife:

Dream Burls
03-26-2013, 05:00 PM
Welcome aboard Austin. This is a great forum with a lot of great people involved. Hope your business plan is to make it even better.

Dave, as I've told you many times, your skills at running KKF have been amazing. Everyone at KKF owes you a great deal. I hope this move leads you to more peaceful waters. Enjoy, you've earned it.

Notaskinnychef
03-26-2013, 05:20 PM
Welcome to the party. I can certainly see the amount of work that would be attributed to maintaining a site like this while having a business too, thanks for everything that you've done to get us where we are Dave

77kath
03-26-2013, 05:21 PM
Thanks, Dave!

Welcome, Austin!

DeepCSweede
03-26-2013, 05:31 PM
Welcome Austin and thanks for all the hard work Dave.

Lefty
03-26-2013, 05:34 PM
This caught me very off guard. Congrats to the new owner...that's what we say around here, right?

Here's to keeping this place what it is.

Austin
03-26-2013, 05:35 PM
This caught me very off guard. Congrats to the new owner...that's what we say around here, right?

Here's to keeping this place what it is.

Glad to see another lefty!

Thanks for the welcomes guys!

The BoardSMITH
03-26-2013, 05:42 PM
When will the cancelation take place? Will there be a credit for the current fees paid?

Pensacola Tiger
03-26-2013, 05:54 PM
Thanks for all you've done, Dave!

Congratulations on your new job as head of the knuthouse, Austin!

Rick

Austin
03-26-2013, 05:59 PM
Free pizza?

Welcome to the KKF.

Hoss


When will the cancelation take place? Will there be a credit for the current fees paid?

I'm contacting all Vendor and providing them with details. You will cancel now through Paypal, and I will contact you when it's time to renew.

WildBoar
03-26-2013, 06:07 PM
Austin -- you need to post pictures of your knives. Forum rule, and all that...

Chef Doom
03-26-2013, 06:11 PM
If I could make a suggestion regarding fees Austin. Everything I do should be deemed free and acceptable. And I do mean only me.

jayhay
03-26-2013, 06:41 PM
This caught me very off guard. Congrats to the new owner...that's what we say around here, right?

Here's to keeping this place what it is.

+1 Lefty.

And a BIG thanks to Dave and all the founders for creating this wonderful place. It's about the last place on the net that has any class or character. I'm not one who enjoys change much, and I'll miss your leadership here, Dave. Thanks again for all the work you've put into this. That said, I truly hope you enjoy your new found freedom, and have more time for the important stuff, like family and friends. I know how consuming admining interwebs stuffs can be. Congrats on moving forward, buddy :)

cclin
03-26-2013, 06:41 PM
Dave, Thanks everything you've done for KKF!!

:welcome2:Welcome aboard Austin! I hope you'll keeping the KKF as it is now.....

Don Nguyen
03-26-2013, 06:48 PM
I think this is a great change, especially since I know Dave was always bombarded with forum duties (and we always wanted to see more knives). I wish for this change to reduce the stress for many of us. Welcome Austin!

Benuser
03-26-2013, 07:08 PM
Amazing this forum exists only since two years, and has rapidly become a part of it's members life.
Thanks for everything, Dave!
Welcome, Austin!

Gator
03-26-2013, 07:17 PM
Good luck to Dave, FOrums and all of us ;) I hope it will work out well.

Marko Tsourkan
03-26-2013, 07:28 PM
A little sensitive question, but would the new ownership affect banned members? Will they be given a second chance, an amnesty of sorts? I can think of a few who are not around, but sure would love to come back.

M

ThEoRy
03-26-2013, 07:33 PM
If this gives Dave more time to finish my knife then I'm all for it. I don't care about ads since my pc blocks them anyway. But if this starts to become like the old forum, well.... we all know how that went down.

labor of love
03-26-2013, 07:42 PM
i havent been able to send a message today. i wonder if this has something to do with it.

Austin
03-26-2013, 08:00 PM
A little sensitive question, but would the new ownership affect banned members? Will they be given a second chance, an amnesty of sorts? I can think of a few who are not around, but sure would love to come back.

M


I'm going to uphold the policy the community has in place an that includes bans. I don't know how things like this have been handled in the past though so I will discuss that with the mods.


i havent been able to send a message today. i wonder if this has something to do with it.

What kind of message and how do you access the site?

labor of love
03-26-2013, 08:08 PM
actually, i think the message isnt being sent because the persons mailbox is full! lol! sorry. nevermind.

RRLOVER
03-26-2013, 08:12 PM
Welcome Austin..........Dave go take a well deserved break:D

Mrmnms
03-26-2013, 08:24 PM
Thank you Dave. You have been generous in so many ways. I look forward to doing business with you in the future. Welcome Austin, you have some very sharp (ugh) members in this forum.Don't be afraid to ask questions or for help. Best of luck. I hope it works out for all of us.

Jim
03-26-2013, 08:32 PM
A little sensitive question, but would the new ownership affect banned members? Will they be given a second chance, an amnesty of sorts? I can think of a few who are not around, but sure would love to come back.

M

Marko, as has been said before, we do not ban anyone here, when a member cannot comport themselves and been asked multiple times to follow our ridiculously few requirements, they remove themselves from the community.

Marko Tsourkan
03-26-2013, 08:49 PM
I happened to know some of them and feel sorry for them, so that was the reason for asking. Sorry if it was out of tact a little bit.

M

chinacats
03-26-2013, 08:54 PM
Greetings Austin, hope you can keep things up to the standards that have been set.

Dave, you rock! Best of luck in all you decide to do with your new found time. :D

Cheers!

Drumjockey
03-26-2013, 09:21 PM
Thank you so much Dave, I haven't been here very long but it's been long enough for me to feel at home, not feel like a dumbass for asking newb questions, and to feel the love this community has for each other and the topic. The vibe you created has everything to do with that, and it is a great thing you have built here. Austin, welcome! I must say I have a bit of a selfish reason for liking this change though... somewhere down the line is a Martell with my name on it, and it probably just got a little bit closer to fruition:) Now I REALLY have to get better at knife care- and I have less time to do it in:viking:

sudsy9977
03-26-2013, 09:33 PM
Wow...looks like I missed a lot!....I gotta start signing on during my lunch break....welcome Austin, Congrats to the new owners as well.....

As for Dave....I hope this takes a load off.....I know how much work the forums is.....now get back to work, maybe my box of knives is next'!!!!!!!!!!....probably not but that's what I'm tellin myself!....ryan

Dave Martell
03-26-2013, 09:53 PM
Thanks for all the kind words folks. :)

Giving up the forum is not easy, it's unsettling because it's change, but I feel confident that it's a good change so I have comfort in the move being right for us all.

For us vendors (and I say "us" because I'm right there with you guys) we can look forward to an even broader reach across the internet (since these folks have to be better at SEO and all that good stuff than I could ever be) helping to bring in more members and potential customers. The new owners' revenue from KKF is primarily from us so they care about us - trust me here they do - and I feel that we've got even better things to come.

I do agree with a couple of the posters here in that it's a good thing to remove myself (a vendor) from running the forum. I don;t wish to elaborate my thoughts on this but I'm sure that you can figure out the reasons why this would be good for everyone.

I started this forum with Jim back a little over two years ago with the goal of providing a safe haven for those of us vendors who wish to do business without having to deal within a cutthroat environment, for the members who wanted a more friendly & less business like aggressive discussion forum that they could share and cultivate friendships. I hope that by now you all can see that nothing bad is going to happen from this change and that you can feel the good intent of the new owners and can see that we're still headed down the same path we've started on.

Thanks again to all of you who have contributed, supported, and participated in making KKF what it is, a pretty damn good forum. :thumbsup:

ecchef
03-26-2013, 10:26 PM
Awwww....we still love you Dave! :bliss:

NO ChoP!
03-26-2013, 10:27 PM
Did anyone tell Austin about our KKF tradition of new members using their newest knife to slice a nice piece of raw cow tongue and eating it?

I like a little worcestershire with mine....

Welcome!!!!!!

Justin0505
03-26-2013, 10:44 PM
Thanks Dave, and welcome Austin!

This sounds like a good change and will allow Dave more time to do what he does best / would like to do and Austin / GroupBuilder to do what they do well.

Now, when does the enhancement that makes mini-pizza pop out of my cd tray go into effect?

Also, lets see some pics of that old 15" kitchen broadsword!

brainsausage
03-26-2013, 11:05 PM
Geez... I fall off the forum for a couple weeks and all kind of hell breaks loose... This sounds like a good fit for you Dave, and as such- Congratulations.
Austin- welcome! But never forget that this is a forum comprised of folks who are proficient with wielding sharp objects... Just saying:spiteful:

mr drinky
03-26-2013, 11:24 PM
Interesting.

I can totally understand this move. Frankly, I have never understood why any person would want to (or try to) administer a forum. I think they are all crazy mother *******.

(Just testing the new Group Builder swearing policy).

David Ricardo, the famous economist, in his theory of comparative advantage makes the point that even if you are the best at producing something and have an absolute advantage in performing those duties (in Dave's case rehandling knives, founding and running a forum, making knives, sharpening etc.) it is still beneficial to give up some of those duties if another party has a relative efficiency. Everyone will be better off in the end -- and I think this is such a case.

When all is said and done, there will be more Dave re-handles, a well administered forum, more Martell blades, and a lot of sharper shiny things in this world. Dave just sorted out his comparative advantage -- and rightly so considering his talents in many other areas.

Now, stepping away from the rational part of me, there is still something that feels like this sucks. But that's just me.

k.

Edit: NOTE THE NEW SWEARING POLICY.

brainsausage
03-26-2013, 11:32 PM
Heh, look at the suddenly salty Karring... And I agree, I felt a little pang in my stomach when first seeing this thread. Hopefully said pang isn't justified. Not sure how happy I am with the new swearing policy honestly, I swear like a sailor all day in the kitchen, this is one of the few places I feel the need to elucidate upon my musings in an elevated fashion without resorting to such common terms as:****, ****, ***** - oops. Nevermind.

mr drinky
03-26-2013, 11:40 PM
Don't get me wrong. I am a family man and for the most part hold my tongue, but being raised in a fundamentalist household when I was young, I have a lot of F-words to get off my chest ;) And it appears as if some language policy is still in place anyhow. Not a bad thing.

k.

brainsausage
03-26-2013, 11:58 PM
Woah- where'd all the flavor go? Makes my post a bit more entertaining now. I was just screwing with you btw, Karring. Although I do find it odd that after I posted my previous comment, I reread yours for whatever reason, and the naughty bit was still there- bright as day. Guess this is an active experiment for the time being...

Lucretia
03-27-2013, 12:00 AM
Did anyone tell Austin about our KKF tradition of new members using their newest knife to slice a nice piece of raw cow tongue and eating it?

I like a little worcestershire with mine....

Welcome!!!!!!

You forgot that they're supposed to do it nekkid in the snow...

THANKS Dave!

And welcome, Austin!

Vertigo
03-27-2013, 12:02 AM
Congrats on the sale, Dave.

Chefdog
03-27-2013, 12:05 AM
Congratulations to Austin and Dave.

I haven't been around for too long, and I've found this forum to be full of helpful, generous and funny people who are able to talk smack, buy & sell each other stuff, ask & answer questions, and do it all without the petty BS that is found on so many other Internet forums. The generosity and down to earth attitudes of members here is awesome, and the best part about checking in everyday (besides the BST...). Many thanks to Dave for having the balls to go out on a limb and start this place. Best of luck to you.

knyfeknerd
03-27-2013, 12:29 AM
Best of luck to everyone.
We, the forum members are what makes KKF what it is.
I think this will be awesome for Dave as he won't have to deal with a lot of the headaches of the job.

Gravy Power
03-27-2013, 12:46 AM
Having been a part of many online communites prior to this (none being knife related), I completely understand the physical and mental committment that accompanies it. Dave, you built an awesome community, the best I've ever seen, and i think your making a great decision for your personal being by handing it over. Thanks for all you've done and welcome Austin!

stereo.pete
03-27-2013, 12:56 AM
This has been the absolute best forum I have ever been a member of, which has been many and here's two many more years of time well spent with a great community!

El Pescador
03-27-2013, 01:08 AM
Congrats to both buyer and seller.

AFKitchenknivesguy
03-27-2013, 01:39 AM
Not sure how I feel about this. Dave is a wonderful person and I always wish him the best, hopefully nothing changes.

stereo.pete
03-27-2013, 02:48 AM
Not sure how I feel about this. Dave is a wonderful person and I always wish him the best, hopefully nothing changes.

Ditto!

Cipcich
03-27-2013, 03:00 AM
Kind of like when you get that letter informing you that, in the future, your mortgage payments should be sent to XYZ corporation.
No particular explanation, but you assume everyone made money. Just don't forget to send the check every month.

Cipcich
03-27-2013, 04:13 AM
No. While never an especially popular member of this forum, I feel sold out.
This transaction must have been the subject of negotiations for months. The members, supporting or not, were never informed. It was obviously naive to have assumed that this venture was somehow more high-minded than that which preceded it.
KKF has now descended into the realm of forums that have gone before it, most notably that from which it sprang. Good play Dave; never leave a dollar on the table.

apicius9
03-27-2013, 04:41 AM
No. While never an especially popular member of this forum, I feel sold out.
This transaction must have been the subject of negotiations for months. The members, supporting or not, were never informed. It was obviously naive to have assumed that this venture was somehow more high-minded than that which preceded it.
KKF has now descended into the realm of forums that have gone before it, most notably that from which it sprang. Good play Dave; never leave a dollar on the table.

While you have any right to feel however you want to, I also think you are being unnecessarily unfair and ungrateful. At least at this time, I don't see KKF anywhere close to what you are pointing to, and there is a difference between a man moving a voluntary additional part-time - sometimes full-time - job off his shoulders to focus on his core area and taking the members' $$ from the table. If anybody, the vendors might be observing this closely. I know I will, but personally I never had any reason to distrust Dave with anything, so I am going into this new scenario with an open mind and open eyes. I have appreciated your contributions, so I hope you - and everybody else who feels like this - will come around to at least give it a achance and see how it goes.

My 2cts,

Stefan

Cipcich
03-27-2013, 04:51 AM
OK.

Miles
03-27-2013, 04:53 AM
Dave,
I deeply appreciate everything that you've put into this forum. I've long wondered how you manage to juggle all the balls. I followed you over from the old forum because I knew you as a man of integrity and nothing I've experienced here has ever made me doubt that. I trust in your judgment that Austin and the new crew will deliver all that we've come to expect. Hopefully this will allow you to step back and focus on the things which you want and need to focus upon. While you did it with great aplomb I have no doubt that moderating a bunch of knife knuts was something you never really expected to be doing. I have nothing but good things to say and good wishes to bestow. Thank you for starting this and I hope that your new and improved role will be a good one.

Warmest regards,
Mike

Miles
03-27-2013, 04:58 AM
Austin, welcome aboard. I wish you well and hope that you will find this to be as welcoming a place as I know it to be.
Mike

The BoardSMITH
03-27-2013, 06:26 AM
My 2cts,

Stefan

I'm with Stefan on this. Although I have gone through two changes of ownership in companies I have worked for in the past, neither went especially well for anyone, I will keep an open mind and give this a chance. Hopefully the new owners will have more time to concentrate on expanding the forum without making it just another forum looking for a profit.

My reason for being a member was an invitation by Dave. He offered soon after he started KKF and I moved over here after the wild time at the other forum. I don't get enough business from the members here to justify the vendor fees but it is important to keep in touch with what is going on. And I have learned a lot about knives and their care from reading all the posts.

Congratulations Dave. I hope you are finally able to concentrate more on the day-to-day business that supports your family. (The knife you rehandled and gave the spa treatment is a dream to use!) Congratulations Austin and your group for a spectacular, but sudden, purchase. I look forward to the new ownership rules and hopefully continuing with the KKF sub-forum I now have.

Salty dog
03-27-2013, 06:35 AM
I'd like to give Dave a ton of credit and huevos for starting and running this forum.
With that being said, I'm an old cynical SOB. I got that same queasy feeling some of you mentioned and suspect many others have. For the noobs it won't make much difference but as an old timer that was around for the civil war (Not that Civil War, I'm not that old) I'm reminded what the motivation was to create this forum. It was born out of passion and a little greed. I worry about what's left once the passion is gone?

I also believe that time will tell and the new owners deserve the chance to do it right.

Good luck to all.

ecchef
03-27-2013, 06:42 AM
No. While never an especially popular member of this forum, I feel sold out.
This transaction must have been the subject of negotiations for months. The members, supporting or not, were never informed. It was obviously naive to have assumed that this venture was somehow more high-minded than that which preceded it.
KKF has now descended into the realm of forums that have gone before it, most notably that from which it sprang. Good play Dave; never leave a dollar on the table.


14186

Dream Burls
03-27-2013, 07:30 AM
Best of luck to everyone.
We, the forum members are what makes KKF what it is.

I think this is a very important point and one that needs to be focused on. This forum has grown and evolved over the past years to become what it is now. The culture and sense of communty that is such a large part of this forum should not change just because there is new ownership. As Austin stated in a previous post, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" and this forum is anything but broken. It is a thriving, growing community and there is no reason that should not continue as long as we, the members, remember why we joined, what we get from our membership and how we want this forum to operate. It is our individual contributions and shared interests that aggregate into what this forum really is. That will change only if we do.

NO ChoP!
03-27-2013, 07:44 AM
Did Dave mention my free lifetime membership?

As a huge group of goofballs, Dave has known many of us (put up with?) for many years...

We're going to have to be on our best behavior.

Austin
03-27-2013, 08:50 AM
I understand there's some negativity. If you give me time to prove myself I'm sure you'll find you'll like my style of administration.

I appreciate all the welcomes guys!

HHH Knives
03-27-2013, 08:53 AM
Welcome Austin and Congrats Dave.

I wish you both well in your new endeavors!

God Bless YA
Randy

Lefty
03-27-2013, 09:27 AM
Now that I've had some time to digest it, have a coffee in my system and a full day ahead of me, I feel that my head is now wrapped around this whole thing. I'm with the guys who are apprehensively optimistic regarding the new ownership. As a vendor, I can't help but wonder what might change for me (selfish, or what), as far as fees, site viewership and new customers are concerned. A little bit of commercialism won't kill this forum, nor will it make us feel like sell-outs. I realize that a purchase like this is only made for profit, and to benefit those parties involved with the sale/purchase.

Dave, don't take this the wrong way, but I'm glad you "got out" when you did. We've had our disagreements, regarding matters as wide ranging as this site's membership, yet I've never once thought that you were a complete dick, or that you had anything but the forum's best interest in mind. I gave you a hard time, and maybe even had you cursing all things left-handed, but you never let me see this - in fact, you often took the high road, and let things settle themselves. I have seen the effects of running this forum, on you, and I hope that with this gone (and a bit of money in your pocket - which to me is well-deserved considering your investment into this place) you regain some excitement for that which you love outside of your family. I know you love what you do, and you're as passionate as any of us, if not more so. For you, this can only be a good thing. You'll be able to get back to making art instead of peace, and inspiring the fledgling craftsmen who come on here multiple times a day to ensure that they didn't miss a single thing.

Austin - Welcome! I hope that you don't mind putting up with a narrow-minded, intelligent and at times complicated group of whatever the word is for "more than enthusiasts". I might as well get this out of the way now.... "You're acting like a complete asstard, and I don't need your stinkin' forum!" :D

I hope you know what you signed up for.

Dave, thanks for making this hang-out, and being a huge part of what has made it the best damn forum out there. There's a reason many of us consult/design/try out new products for makers, and that's because everyone knows that if you want an honest opinion from someone who knows what the hell they're talking about, you come here and find them.

As I said before, "Here's to keeping this place what it is".

Paradox
03-27-2013, 09:36 AM
Congrats to you Dave. I know for a fact that you didn't hit the lotto by selling KKF, I hope you a got a little bit back though. Some people don't seem to understand that there is one bigger money pit in this world than owning a boat (A hole in the water you throw money into.). It's owning an internet forum. I know you'll enjoy the extra time you'll have as a result though. Thanks!

Austin
03-27-2013, 10:22 AM
Now that I've had some time to digest it, have a coffee in my system and a full day ahead of me, I feel that my head is now wrapped around this whole thing. I'm with the guys who are apprehensively optimistic regarding the new ownership. As a vendor, I can't help but wonder what might change for me (selfish, or what), as far as fees, site viewership and new customers are concerned. A little bit of commercialism won't kill this forum, nor will it make us feel like sell-outs. I realize that a purchase like this is only made for profit, and to benefit those parties involved with the sale/purchase.

Dave, don't take this the wrong way, but I'm glad you "got out" when you did. We've had our disagreements, regarding matters as wide ranging as this site's membership, yet I've never once thought that you were a complete dick, or that you had anything but the forum's best interest in mind. I gave you a hard time, and maybe even had you cursing all things left-handed, but you never let me see this - in fact, you often took the high road, and let things settle themselves. I have seen the effects of running this forum, on you, and I hope that with this gone (and a bit of money in your pocket - which to me is well-deserved considering your investment into this place) you regain some excitement for that which you love outside of your family. I know you love what you do, and you're as passionate as any of us, if not more so. For you, this can only be a good thing. You'll be able to get back to making art instead of peace, and inspiring the fledgling craftsmen who come on here multiple times a day to ensure that they didn't miss a single thing.

Austin - Welcome! I hope that you don't mind putting up with a narrow-minded, intelligent and at times complicated group of whatever the word is for "more than enthusiasts". I might as well get this out of the way now.... "You're acting like a complete asstard, and I don't need your stinkin' forum!" :D

I hope you know what you signed up for.

Dave, thanks for making this hang-out, and being a huge part of what has made it the best damn forum out there. There's a reason many of us consult/design/try out new products for makers, and that's because everyone knows that if you want an honest opinion from someone who knows what the hell they're talking about, you come here and find them.

As I said before, "Here's to keeping this place what it is".

There will be no changes to your program. It's the same site in terms of cost and policy, just with me now added into the admin position.

I do know what I got myself into. As I'm sure you read I'm a cook by trade and am very similar in terms of mentality.

Enjoy your coffee! I'm having a double espresso myself.

Lefty
03-27-2013, 10:29 AM
Double espresso? I like you already!

Jim
03-27-2013, 11:17 AM
Just to throw some fat on the fire- the other option to moving the forum management to Austin was to shut down the KKF completely. I think we can all agree (arguably by degree) that this is the better option.

kalaeb
03-27-2013, 11:53 AM
Thank you Dave! I really mean it, thanks for getting this place started.

Austin.....time to get some knives.

Austin
03-27-2013, 11:54 AM
Double espresso? I like you already!

I drink about ten shots a day. I've been trying to cut back but it's been tough. I have an eight month old who does not like sleeping.


Just to throw some fat on the fire- the other option to moving the forum management to Austin was to shut down the KKF completely. I think we can all agree (arguably by degree) that this is the better option.

I'm glad it didn't have to come to that.

Patatas Bravas
03-27-2013, 12:34 PM
Just to throw some fat on the fire- the other option to moving the forum management to Austin was to shut down the KKF completely. I think we can all agree (arguably by degree) that this is the better option.

There didn't have to be just these two options as I'm sure more than one member here, at the very least, would have been interested in coming forward to take on admin roles. However, DaveM was able to make some money out of the change, and fair enough to that.

From what I've read I know you and Dave are the two founders, and I understand that either of you might have mixed feelings about handing over the controls. However, saying 'it was either this or shutting KKF down' sounds kind of negative and a disservice to the new admin, as though the sale was the lesser of two evils. To be blunt, if admin work had come to be such a burden for the former admin then the change should definitely be for the better and I think people should feel very positive about it.

mkmk
03-27-2013, 01:07 PM
Hoping for more openness and less heavy handed censorship.

-AJ

Me too.

Regardless of your opinion of the parties involved, a forum like this works best when people are able to have fair, open conversations about various vendors, services, etc. Otherwise, it looks an awful lot like a private sandbox, organized for promotional purposes by the owner. Now that this forum has been sold to a third party, this is an opportunity to take a broader view.

There are plenty of electrons available, and everyone should be able to have their say.

Jim
03-27-2013, 01:13 PM
There didn't have to be just these two options as I'm sure more than one member here, at the very least, would have been interested in coming forward to take on admin roles. However, DaveM was able to make some money out of the change, and fair enough to that.

From what I've read I know you and Dave are the two founders, and I understand that either of you might have mixed feelings about handing over the controls. However, saying 'it was either this or shutting KKF down' sounds kind of negative and a disservice to the new admin, as though the sale was the lesser of two evils. To be blunt, if admin work had come to be such a burden for the former admin then the change should definitely be for the better and I think people should feel very positive about it.

Oh.. I agree 100% that this is for the better and in no way is it a reflection on the new ownership-but closing down was a real possibility in the big scheme of things. I would caracterise the sale as provident rather than prurient in every way measurable.

Lefty
03-27-2013, 01:24 PM
Jim just made us all feel very very stupid. :D

Salty dog
03-27-2013, 03:32 PM
Honestly, I've always wondered who Jim is/was? Kinda like the man behind the curtain.

Dave Martell
03-27-2013, 03:44 PM
I've often wished that Jim was my alter ego. :D

Vertigo
03-27-2013, 03:57 PM
Edit - Derp, nevermind, I got nothing to say here. Carry on folks!

wenus2
03-27-2013, 04:08 PM
Thank you Dave! I really mean it, thanks for getting this place started.

Austin.....time to get some knives.

Amen.

Dave made the forum, and we are all grateful for that, but he doesn't MAKE the forum. The members do. Im not too worried about any changes at this time, it's not in the new owners best interest to go messing around with things too much. As we've shown before, if things get too bad we will pack up our crap and leave. It would seem knife knuts are a nomadic people. I don't think it will come to that though.

Congrats on getting out from under the burden Dave, you are Atlas no more.

SpikeC
03-27-2013, 09:07 PM
I wonder what formerly unwelcome individuals will come skulking around.........

Josh
03-27-2013, 09:41 PM
I want to know what Ray Ray thinks of this...:scratchhead:

ThEoRy
03-27-2013, 11:08 PM
Alright cool, I just sent Ken an invite.

Chef Niloc
03-28-2013, 12:10 AM
Just to throw some fat on the fire- the other option to moving the forum management to Austin was to shut down the KKF completely. I think we can all agree (arguably by degree) that this is the better option.

Okay so I just read this whole thread and before I say anything I just like to say, Jim no one needed to read this. I read slow and as I read post to post page to page I like many others had mixed feelings, thoughts, ext, but over all I read away I was becomeing ok with this " new change". I think the way you just panted the picture Jim was Not necessary.

Everyone here knows I've always been a big fan and supporter of Dave And if he thinks this was the right move to make I support that move too. It's been made obvious to me on more than one occasions over the past few years that Dave didn't really like having to run this forum. Didnt like the burdens and decisions that Ultimately always came down on his head. Dave started this forum for him and for us, now he can just be "one of us" again, And I believe that that will make him happier than any monetary gains he may have gotten from selling KNF. The more I think of it the happier I am that Dave sold the place. I feel that our friendship (mine and Dave's) has suffered in some ways the past few years do to the roll he had to play in this forum. I sad it once before and I'll say it again people like me and Dave (and Ryan:spiteful:) have the type of personalities that it takes to be a good moderators because where antagonists by nature.

So to sum it up ill welcom "Group Builder" and offer a thank you to them for seeing a "value" in the day to day ramblings that go on around here.

I will congratulate Dave and as usual wish him nothing but happiness and success. I will also offer him my thanks for all that he's done building this site, and for being one of the best friends I have, may that only grow stronger.

And with a big change and a big post like this I feel it necessary to also once again thank and acknowledge all of the great members on this board who have literally saved my life and kept me alive over the past year.

ecchef
03-28-2013, 06:01 AM
Alright cool, I just sent Ken an invite.

14196

maxim
03-28-2013, 06:36 AM
Congrats both do Dave and Group Builders :)
And thank you Dave for all Job that you done on this forum, i will miss to complain to you ;)

I have one question to new owners, will censorship of some vendors and people will still be there ? Is it part of a contract ?

Austin
03-28-2013, 07:55 AM
I'm discussing former administration policies with everyone now.

I hope to know something soon.

Benuser
03-28-2013, 09:07 AM
I'm discussing former administration policies with everyone now.

I hope to know something soon.

I would think, it's far from urgent and there's no need for haste.

maxim
03-28-2013, 10:00 AM
So nothing is clear ? And nothing is on papper ?

I mean the reason why we are here and not there might be lost. And of cours it is big part why i am vendor here and not anywhere els.
So it is quite big issue for me


I'm discussing former administration policies with everyone now.

I hope to know something soon.

Austin
03-28-2013, 10:19 AM
The policy is on paper and it's a rule Dave and Jim have had in place for some time.

Like I said I'm discussing it with them. I'm hearing your concerns, the issue is I don't want to change policy without the permission of the admins and mods.

I think that would be a violation of my commitment not to change anything.

kalaeb
03-28-2013, 10:24 AM
Lol, I assumed you were taking about Ken Onion until the last couple posts. Guess I need to get my head back in the game

NO ChoP!
03-28-2013, 10:46 AM
The Shwartz is strong with you....

Lefty
03-28-2013, 10:50 AM
I'd have a beer with Ken Onion.

Zwiefel
03-28-2013, 10:58 AM
The Shwartz is strong with you....


Let's all agree to not Go Plaid!

mkmk
03-28-2013, 11:02 AM
Censorship only diminishes the forum and the admins, and looks childish and petty. If the critique of some vendors is substantive, it can stand on its own.

This is a serious question: do you want this to be the premiere forum for discussion of kitchen knives, or do you want it to be a promotional platform for only a few brands/vendors? These are not the same thing, and I believe you're fooling yourselves if you think it can be both.

maxim
03-28-2013, 11:07 AM
I totally agree with you on that, but i think we all know what going to happen if some people come back
Then some will start new forum and many members will move again

There is a reason why we moved and it will happen again

It is wishful thinking that you can make all happy and include all parties without hell brake loose . It is not only in Knife forums but in Razor forums too BB vs SRP etc.

Just my 2c

Birnando
03-28-2013, 11:12 AM
Censorship only diminishes the forum and the admins, and looks childish and petty. If the critique of some vendors is substantive, it can stand on its own.

This is a serious question: do you want this to be the premiere forum for discussion of kitchen knives, or do you want it to be a promotional platform for only a few brands/vendors? These are not the same thing, and I believe you're fooling yourselves if you think it can be both.

Agreed!
I have basically stopped perusing these forums for those very reasons.
With this change, I hope to see a KKF that I could once again start participating on.

mpukas
03-28-2013, 11:16 AM
I've just read through this entire post, and I'm not surprised at all by the sale. I'm a little pessimistic, as others, but I think it's great that Dave found the strength to make the sale, as it's a good move for KKF and himself. It's not an easy thing to build something from the ground up, and then let it go. It's taken on a life of its own, and it deserves to be able to grown and not be confined by a single vendor's (well, in this case two guys) whims and physical abilities/limitations.

I'm grateful to Dave for creating and maintaining this place over the past 2+ years. I've learned a ton and made some great friends and contacts that I would not have if this place hadn't existed.

I also won't be surprised if ads start popping up. It's all part of capitalism. Almost all of the other forum I participate in have ads, and SimpleAdBlock or AdBlockPlus deal with it.

Dave, now that your not in the super-admin role, I seriously hope you, Jim and Austin reconsider; A) your ridiculously childish censorship rules on certain people's names and websites; and B) you keep your hatred and bad mouthing to yourself and off of the forum. This place is great because of the members, and because of the ethics that we have. Publicly bad mouthing other people is in bad taste, and makes those of us that weren't involved uncomfortable. I feel you've taken liberties in what you've posted because you owned the place. Sure it was you're sand box, but now you should be subject to the same rules & reg's as the rest of us.

PierreRodrigue
03-28-2013, 11:23 AM
The issue broached is censorship. It at the very least, hinders free discussion. To a new member who isn't aware of the history, looking at a stream of asterisks has to be confusing. Hell I know the history, and I have to count asterisks sometimes to figure the "hidden" words. We are all grown ups here, and 80% of the membership has kinda figured it out. The kitchen knife community is a small one. I am sure we have all peeked "over there". To not be able to say a name or word is very "Harry Potter" and I think we are all mature enough to take it with a grain of salt, but is it still necessary?

At the other end of the censorship/banning issue. If it was done because any given entity is/was/will be attempting to sell/shill product without a vendors licence has a green light to be censored.

ajhuff
03-28-2013, 11:28 AM
This is getting good. Since I don't want to violate the terms of my re-instatement from being terminated, I'll just watch the show. :)

:popcorn:

-AJ

mkmk
03-28-2013, 11:32 AM
If the content is good, and if there are clear guidelines about dealer participation, promotional activities, and flame wars, it can be fine. If it's an exclusive club with a silly blacklist, it will never have the credibility of a truly neutral, open forum.

I don't have a dog in this fight -- I've bought from a lot of dealers. Some are favored here, and some are not. Every time I see ****, though, I just roll me eyes at the pettiness.

ecchef
03-28-2013, 11:34 AM
Censorship only diminishes the forum and the admins, and looks childish and petty. If the critique of some vendors is substantive, it can stand on its own.

This is a serious question: do you want this to be the premiere forum for discussion of kitchen knives, or do you want it to be a promotional platform for only a few brands/vendors? These are not the same thing, and I believe you're fooling yourselves if you think it can be both.

A lot of newer members here are not aware of the reasons this forum came into existence, flourished and probably already is the premier forum for the discussion of kitchen knives. I'm not going to elaborate on those reasons, but suffice it to say that the harmony of this forum is partly maintained by the moderators ability & responsibility to establish rules, preclude inappropriate topics or language, and decide on whether or not a vendor meets the criteria to be permitted to conduct business here. Any vendor that is a member of this forum does not have special rights of protection or immunity from being critiqued by any member as long is the discussion is civil and objective. The change of ownership will have no substantive impact on the existing rules or they way they are enforced. The well being of the membership as a whole and the encouragement of healthy and constructive discourse will always be the primary objective.

Dave Martell
03-28-2013, 11:47 AM
Hello again everyone,
I'm glad to see that you all feel free enough to post openly your opinions as it's good to get your feelings off of your chest and heard by the new owners.

I'd like to address a few specifics mentioned above...

The censors may appear childish to some yet necessary to others. If you believe that they're in place to serve only my intentions then you are ill informed and/or short sighted in your understanding of the situation. The history that caused the creation of this very forum directly relates to the individuals who are being censored. These censored entities are only a small percentage of all the vendors used by this community - we have the greatest percentage of the very best vendors here already. Also worth noting, is that I made a change to the censoring policies to once again allow the free discussion of these entities in the respect of allowing their names be shown, however, all links to their businesses are still blocked. Please understand that just because you feel it important to be able to post links to these sites doesn't mean that everyone else agrees with you.

On the subject of Jim's comments (in this thread) and how some people have taken exception to them....I'm 100% certain that Jim wasn't meaning it the way it's being taken, if you knew him personally the way I do you'd likely agree. He's one of the few stand up gentlemen left in this world and does his very best to do right in all his actions. I also understand that it's difficult to get the tone of printed words and that he has been mis-understood. Jim's wish for this forum (and all it's members) is nothing but good things.

As for my bad mouthing of certain people....I promise to do my best to curtail this type of behavior I realize that some people are sensitive or don't wish to hear the truth so I'll limit my comments to being vanilla in flavor. Unfortunately this will also have to include the truths spoken about products that certain vendors sell as I don't believe that all people have the ability to understand why this is being shared, they can not separate a well intentioned warning (to keep members from getting ripped off) from that of ill intent towards the vendor themselves. I expect that the new owners will hold me to the very same standards that all other members are held to as the current moderators and Jim have always done in the past.

Again, thanks to everyone for all the kind words here. I positively look forward to moving on and getting going with all the work that's ahead and in once again taking a more active role in posting and sharing. :)

Dave

chinacats
03-28-2013, 11:50 AM
I love the fact that the 'other' vendor is starred out; I hope it stays that way. One of the first things about this forum that I came to love was not having to deal with the shilling that is hyper evident on other forums for Mark and his not so 'goods.'

I for one think it is for the best and again why many people enjoy the more than relaxed atmosphere around these parts. The origins of this forum point towards the need to keep things as they have been; which have worked fine in my estimation.

While I realize that some people do not enjoy this, I don't see the issue. If you want to discuss items that you can buy from the other vendor, go to any other knife forum and there is plenty of room to do just that. Most of those products and the service behind them is inferior; while the service/products from vendors here are constantly exceptional. If there is a problem here, it is usually taken care of in short order with no finger pointing involved. :2cents:

Cheers!

edit--Just read Dave's post and it states what I tried to state so much better...I agree 100%. Thanks Dave!

maxim
03-28-2013, 11:56 AM
Agree 100 % Again there is a reason why we have it so good here, no huge wars or fights and members keep going up.
And i think no vendor is safe for critique here and never was.
Do we loose couple of members here and there because of it yeah sure, but alternative is that we loose whole forum

PierreRodrigue
03-28-2013, 11:57 AM
Dave you are, and will always be respected here. Thank you for what you have done, and will continue to contribute. I know I have been a PITA at times, but you have always had time for me and our discussions always ended with both of us having a better understanding.

Thank you for addressing this issue, and I agree with you on the count that if a product is crap, call it crap. If an outside vendor is shilling, or representing bad product or has bad policies, then by all means call it what it is. Removing the asterisk's is awesome. That removes the censorship in my eyes. If a back link is given to any buisness that isn't a vendor here, then sure, block it. I just want this forum to be able to freely discuss ANY product by ANY maker/manufacturer with out having to "guess the word" be the game of the day.

Again, thank you for having our backs.

mkmk
03-28-2013, 12:13 PM
Hello again everyone,
I'm glad to see that you all feel free enough to post openly your opinions as it's good to get your feelings off of your chest and heard by the new owners.

I'd like to address a few specifics mentioned above...

The censors may appear childish to some yet necessary to others. If you believe that they're in place to serve only my intentions then you are ill informed and/or short sighted in your understanding of the situation. The history that caused the creation of this very forum directly relates to the individuals who are being censored. These censored entities are only a small percentage of all the vendors used by this community - we have the greatest percentage of the very best vendors here already. Also worth noting, is that I made a change to the censoring policies to once again allow the free discussion of these entities in the respect of allowing their names be shown, however, all links to their businesses are still blocked. Please understand that just because you feel it important to be able to post links to these sites doesn't mean that everyone else agrees with you.

On the subject of Jim's comments (in this thread) and how some people have taken exception to them....I'm 100% certain that Jim wasn't meaning it the way it's being taken, if you knew him personally the way I do you'd likely agree. He's one of the few stand up gentlemen left in this world and does his very best to do right in all his actions. I also understand that it's difficult to get the tone of printed words and that he has been mis-understood. Jim's wish for this forum (and all it's members) is nothing but good things.

As for my bad mouthing of certain people....I promise to do my best to curtail this type of behavior I realize that some people are sensitive or don't wish to hear the truth so I'll limit my comments to being vanilla in flavor. Unfortunately this will also have to include the truths spoken about products that certain vendors sell as I don't believe that all people have the ability to understand why this is being shared, they can not separate a well intentioned warning (to keep members from getting ripped off) from that of ill intent towards the vendor themselves. I expect that the new owners will hold me to the very same standards that all other members are held to as the current moderators and Jim have always done in the past.

Again, thanks to everyone for all the kind words here. I positively look forward to moving on and getting going with all the work that's ahead and in once again taking a more active role in posting and sharing. :)

Dave

I understand that you believe the censorship is appropriate. As a largely disinterested party, you should also know that the censorship itself is the single biggest thing that erodes confidence in the credibility of your opinions, and in this site. It honestly looks cowardly -- because it suggests that you don't actually have as much confidence in your convictions as you claim.

I don't believe that's really the case, but that's how it looks.

I understand that you put those rules in place because you didn't/don't trust the vendor. Unfortunately, it also has the effect of making it look like you don't trust the forum members. They, ultimately, are the ones who are being told what words they can say. In the short term, I understand why you might put those policies in place when founding a new forum. In the long term, it's corrosive to the sense of community for everyone -- because it says you don't trust us.

Make clear, fair guidelines about shilling, flame wars, promotion, etc., and stick with them -- I think everyone here will benefit. Perhaps you most of all.

And thanks again for all your hard work on the site. Seriously.

mpukas
03-28-2013, 12:13 PM
...The censors may appear childish...

Yes. End of discussion.


...If you believe that they're in place to serve only my intentions then you are ill informed and/or short sighted in your understanding of the situation...

You should be careful pointing fingers around here. Many of us do not appreciate being called ill informed and/or short sighted. Whenever you point a finger at someone, look at your hand, as you've got three pointing right back at yourself.


...Also worth noting, is that I made a change to the censoring policies to once again allow the free discussion of these entities in the respect of allowing their names be shown, however, all links to their businesses are still blocked.

I think it's fine if you want to ban Mark and Ken, and who ever else, from being members and/or vendors on KKF. That's legit. Publicly bad mouthing them because of your personal experiences is not. It's a good move on behalf of the forum to remove the silly censorship of their names.



...As for my bad mouthing of certain people....I promise to do my best to curtail this type of behavior I realize that some people are sensitive or don't wish to hear the truth so I'll limit my comments to being vanilla in flavor. Unfortunately this will also have to include the truths spoken about products that certain vendors sell as I don't believe that all people have the ability to understand why this is being shared, they can not separate a well intentioned warning (to keep members from getting ripped off) from that of ill intent towards the vendor themselves. I expect that the new owners will hold me to the very same standards that all other members are held to as the current moderators and Jim have always done in the past.

This is just continuing the same passive-aggressive, childish attitude that partially led you had to create this place. In fact, you're the one who's sensitive, otherwise you wouldn't have the bans & censorship in place. Of course we want to hear your unbiased opinion about a product. And you can do that without getting personally involved.

Truth is purely a matter of perspective. I bet Mark doesn't think he did anything wrong, and from his perspective you're the one who's making all the fuss and the accusations you've made are false.

I'm not going to get into it about who's right or wrong, who's knowledgeable or credible, all I'm saying is grow up and move on. You've made a great place that we all love, and we appreciate it. Let it go so this place can continue to shine.

Dave Martell
03-28-2013, 12:19 PM
mpukas, you've made it clear in the past that you're not fond of me and what I've done/do, I'm glad that you feel welcome to once again voice your opinion - you're being heard - that's important to you and we respect that.

Justin0505
03-28-2013, 12:23 PM
Removing the asterisk's is awesome. That removes the censorship in my eyes. If a back link is given to any buisness that isn't a vendor here, then sure, block it. I just want this forum to be able to freely discuss ANY product by ANY maker/manufacturer with out having to "guess the word" be the game of the day.



±1
Well said Pierre

ajhuff
03-28-2013, 12:24 PM
The problem is that only the people with the "Founding Member" badge understand what all this hostility, censorship and pettiness is about. I still don't know what "the other place" is. Not like you can ask. I've even asked in an email and got rebuffed. After all the OFFICIAL KKF policy is:


Members will not be given an explanation when asking for details on blocked/censored words/phrases. Your understanding and cooperation in this matter is appreciated.

I'm willing to bet it's that attitude right there that has more than a few people chomping at the bit and you're seeing that come out in this thread.

-AJ

Dave Martell
03-28-2013, 12:31 PM
The problem is that only the people with the "Founding Member" badge understand what all this hostility, censorship and pettiness is about. I still don't know what "the other place" is. Not like you can ask. I've even asked in an email and got rebuffed. After all the OFFICIAL KKF policy is:


Members will not be given an explanation when asking for details on blocked/censored words/phrases. Your understanding and cooperation in this matter is appreciated.

I'm willing to bet it's that attitude right there that has more than a few people chomping at the bit and you're seeing that come out in this thread.

-AJ



AJ, you left out the rest of the "OFFICIAL KKF policy":


If you find yourself posting a link (or word/phrase) that shows up (when posted) with a message stating "This Site Not Allowed Here" or************** then you are seeing an intentionally censored word/phrase or a blocked business entity.

These blocks/censors are in place for good reason(s). Some are blocking foul language yet others are blocking businesses (and/or business links) that we don't wish to have within our community.



http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/11326-Broken-Links-amp-Censorship?p=191774&viewfull=1#post191774

Twistington
03-28-2013, 12:35 PM
Thank you Dave for all this time you have invested in the creation of this internet-gem! :)

Even though comforting words I still fear that this becomes another KF, let's just hope that does not happens and that my fear hold no ground because i would hate to see this forum change to the worse. :(

Zwiefel
03-28-2013, 12:36 PM
I am a relative newcomer to the community here, and don't understand the history that a lot of this discussion is based on. What I do understand is that emotions run deep on this topic and that this dialogue is likely to degrade if this discussion continues. I can't imagine that Austin + team are now unaware of the contention on this topic.

I suggest we leave it here, unless Austin + team have some questions.

My :2cents:

Z

skiajl6297
03-28-2013, 12:36 PM
Congrats on the sale! For what it's worth, as a newbie to this forum (and to the knife forum community in general), it has been extremely awkward and difficult to try to piece together the history of how this place came to be - and I think careful thought on how this place moves forward should include consideration for new members, in addition to the old guard's history, aggravations, reasons for change, etc.

Note however, that I am still here. The community is great, the people engaging and friendly, and the answers honest. The interactions have made me rethink what an online forum can be. So thank you Dave and all involved for making this place what it is, and hopefully helping to guide it into the future.

“Everything that needs to be said has already been said. But since no one was listening, everything must be said again.”

chinacats
03-28-2013, 12:37 PM
The problem is that only the people with the "Founding Member" badge understand what all this hostility, censorship and pettiness is about. I still don't know what "the other place" is. Not like you can ask. I've even asked in an email and got rebuffed. After all the OFFICIAL KKF policy is:

I'm willing to bet it's that attitude right there that has more than a few people chomping at the bit and you're seeing that come out in this thread.

-AJ

I do not have a founding member badge, and have not been around as long as you, but I do have a very real understanding of the **** due to the **** products and services received from said ****. My personal experience with said dealer is what led me looking around to find a more authentic site with no shilling in every other post. I believe this site has become what it is because of how/why it was built. I think the new owners see some value in that or they wouldn't have pursued the purchase. I personally hate censorship, but find it quite amusing here, it only blocks out the ****heads.

My 2 cents...I really do love asteriks:biggrin:

Cheers!

knyfeknerd
03-28-2013, 12:45 PM
Wow, all this bitching and moaning over policy blah blah blah blah blah blah........
........I feel like I'm watching the "Real Housewives of Menstruating Knife Knutz"
You are all taking this waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too seriously.
Grow up.
Get along or beat it.
I feel like I'm talking to my kids.

ajhuff
03-28-2013, 01:09 PM
I had thought that I was alone in feeling treated disrespectfully but it looks like I'm not alone. My final thought is that I hope Austin realizes there is a gap that needs to be bridged. I have high hopes that this site will greatly improve with the new ownership.

-AJ

mano
03-28-2013, 01:29 PM
Austin: "Dave, isn't there a back-out clause in the contract? This place is infested with pests!"

Dave: "No fluck!n way, man!"

On a serious note, the members make this a terrific forum. Dave and Gentleman Jim, thanks for everything. I hope to see you both at the ECG.

mhlee
03-28-2013, 01:56 PM
I think it's fine if you want to ban Mark and Ken, and who ever else, from being members and/or vendors on KKF. That's legit. Publicly bad mouthing them because of your personal experiences is not. It's a good move on behalf of the forum to remove the silly censorship of their names.




This is just continuing the same passive-aggressive, childish attitude that partially led you had to create this place. In fact, you're the one who's sensitive, otherwise you wouldn't have the bans & censorship in place. Of course we want to hear your unbiased opinion about a product. And you can do that without getting personally involved.

Truth is purely a matter of perspective. I bet Mark doesn't think he did anything wrong, and from his perspective you're the one who's making all the fuss and the accusations you've made are false.

I'm not going to get into it about who's right or wrong, who's knowledgeable or credible, all I'm saying is grow up and move on. You've made a great place that we all love, and we appreciate it. Let it go so this place can continue to shine.

Mpukas:

I've emphasized in bold two things above. The first part I emphasized is because what you're proposing is essentially self-censorship. Why isn't it ok to censor some things, but one shouldn't "public badmouth them because of your personal experiences . . . ."? Are you saying that I can't talk about my very negative experiences because they may be construed as "public badmouthing"?

Second, I don't know how many vendors you've spoken with, but I can tell you with near certainty, that Dave is not the only one who is sensitive about the fact that neither Mark nor his other affiliated vendors are here. I will go as far to say that you're only seeing the very surface of the dispute. And since, even as a casual observer, I've come to realize that Mark's business practices leave much to be desired, perhaps it would be best if you kept your "public badmouthing" of Dave and the censorship rules to yourself. I mean, really, if you're going to tell people that they shouldn't publicly badmouth, shouldn't you refrain as well?

(FWIW, the censors have never never stopped discussion about the knives he sells. So what if his last name doesn't come up? From what I recall, the names of his models have never been censored and there has been plenty of discussion about the quality, performance, etc. issues of the knives he's sold.)

mhlee
03-28-2013, 02:03 PM
Curiously, I noticed that neither ajhuff nor mpukas are even paid members. Just sayin'.

ajhuff
03-28-2013, 02:07 PM
Nope And I have my reasons. I probably will when the ownership transfer is complete.

Just sayin.

-AJ

mhlee
03-28-2013, 02:13 PM
Of course you do. But since you don't pay, should your opinion matter more than the vendors who do pay or the members who do?

jayhay
03-28-2013, 02:14 PM
As for my bad mouthing of certain people....I promise to do my best to curtail this type of behavior I realize that some people are sensitive or don't wish to hear the truth so I'll limit my comments to being vanilla in flavor. Unfortunately this will also have to include the truths spoken about products that certain vendors sell as I don't believe that all people have the ability to understand why this is being shared, they can not separate a well intentioned warning (to keep members from getting ripped off) from that of ill intent towards the vendor themselves. I expect that the new owners will hold me to the very same standards that all other members are held to as the current moderators and Jim have always done in the past.
Dave

I hate vanilla. Dave, you're awesome. Please don't change.

Your professional manner and respectful attitude are rare these days. You think before you speak, and encourage others. Don't be bothered by the negativity. You owe nothing to anyone, but to be yourself.

Keep on, keepin' on :)

labor of love
03-28-2013, 02:17 PM
mark and his cohorts have their own crappy forum. lets keep it that way.

cwrightthruya
03-28-2013, 02:20 PM
Dave: Congratulations on the sale. It is good to have you back as one of us ;), and great to see the burden of everything this forum brings lifted off your shoulders. This thread and much of what has been said I know is only a small glimpse of what you deal with on a daily basis.

Austin: Congratulations on the purchase. I am sure you will find this a welcoming place, full of people who love to share a passion...And as with any passion, our love of this forum and its subject matter often yields heightened emotions, as is evident from much of what has been said on this thread.

As a side note only....because politics are not my thing I would like to say +1 to chinacats statement below.
Thanks for everything!!!!
Regards,
Chris


I do not have a founding member badge, and have not been around as long as you, but I do have a very real understanding of the **** due to the **** products and services received from said ****. My personal experience with said dealer is what led me looking around to find a more authentic site with no shilling in every other post. I believe this site has become what it is because of how/why it was built. I think the new owners see some value in that or they wouldn't have pursued the purchase. I personally hate censorship, but find it quite amusing here, it only blocks out the ****heads.

My 2 cents...I really do love asteriks:biggrin:

Cheers!

jayhay
03-28-2013, 02:27 PM
I still don't know what "the other place" is. Not like you can ask. I've even asked in an email and got rebuffed.


Not trying to be a jerk here, but you have 1100+ posts here and you don't know about the other knife forum? Maybe you should google around a bit. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=knife+forum


Wow, all this bitching and moaning over policy blah blah blah blah blah blah........
........I feel like I'm watching the "Real Housewives of Menstruating Knife Knutz"
You are all taking this waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too seriously.
Grow up.
Get along or beat it.
I feel like I'm talking to my kids.

+1

But I do feel kinda childish for what I wrote above. I couldn't stop myself.

Paradox
03-28-2013, 02:42 PM
Curiously, I noticed that neither ajhuff nor mpukas are even paid members. Just sayin'.

What and why should that have anything to do with it? Because I have a little extra cash to pony up and help with the day to days at KKF I should have some more standing to call a spade a spade than the guy who doesn't? BS!!!! That does not lessen what they have to say in any way.


Of course you do. But since you don't pay, should your opinion matter more than the vendors who do pay or the members who do?

It should not be any less either that is for sure. No one has been strong armed to donate or pay vendor fees. If anything vendors should have less standing, as they are paying the fee to help their bottom line.

markenki
03-28-2013, 02:46 PM
Congratulations, Dave! And welcome, Austin!

I hope KKF remains true to the spirit in which it was founded. Now let's get back to kitchen knives!

Mucho Bocho
03-28-2013, 03:07 PM
I've been following this thread and the history of KKF very closely. I think it was said best that Dave M. made this forum but doesn't make the forum. Personally I had a had a bad expereince with Dave (Moritaka related) but I'm not going to bad mouth him, just not send him anymore of my business.

I also know a little about the history of the forum and the bad blood between Marks online store and such. All I'll say is that the truth is always somewhere in the middle. I will say that I've bought knives from several dealers from Bluewayjapan on ebay and C-Knives-to-go. I've also returned knives to both vendors.

Both took them back after months of use including a few sharpenings. Knives from Konosuke and Yusuke and Moritaka. Its sad that marks get a bad wrap here and can't defend himself. I've bought at least twenty knives from him over the past four or five years. Everyone came as described with a welcoming return policy. He's one of the few knife vendor that lists his phone # too. I was hoping to chat with Lefty (Tom) from Shiny and Sharp but his Phone # is not listed any where.its worth mentioning that Jon (another reputable giant in the US high-end cutlery world from Japanese Knife Imports) list his Phone # too. Sorry but I like to actually talk with the people I deal with. Nothing personal Tom, you sound like a cool guy but I stand by what i said.

mhlee
03-28-2013, 03:11 PM
What and why should that have anything to do with it? Because I have a little extra cash to pony up and help with the day to days at KKF I should have some more standing to call a spade a spade than the guy who doesn't? BS!!!! That does not lessen what they have to say in any way.


It should not be any less either that is for sure. No one has been strong armed to donate or pay vendor fees. If anything vendors should have less standing, as they are paying the fee to help their bottom line.

*Sigh*.

I don't think you've read through the thread and you're missing the point. It's not about calling a spade a spade. It's about changing some fundamental guidelines that have been in place since nearly the very beginning of this forum regarding censorship and not allowing certain third-party retailers to be identified, whether by website links or by name.

Sure the vendors pay to help their bottom line. But, they paid their fees based on certain clear representations and guidelines about what will be and will not be allowed in the forum.

The point I was making was that should a non-paying member have more influence in changing a fundamental guideline regarding what will and will not be allowed in the forum that directly relates to third-party retailers that essentially compete with our vendors, over those vendors who paid their vendor fees based on clear representations and guidelines about what will and will not be allowed in the forum?

mhlee
03-28-2013, 03:22 PM
Its sad that marks get a bad wrap here and can't defend himself.

He has his own forum where where he'll never need to defend himself. But maybe you should consider that he (1) brought this on himself, and (2) the "bad wrap" is deserved.

I, for one, am very glad that he's not here to color the discussions we have here. Do you see very honest, objective, critical discussions about the knives he sells on his own forum, like we do here, about how bad the grinds are, fit and finish, thickness, etc.?

And, frankly, I and at least several other people I know of will never send him our business. He wouldn't have to "defend" himself if he treated us better in the first place.

Patatas Bravas
03-28-2013, 03:38 PM
*Sigh* ... The point I was making was that should a non-paying member have more influence in changing a fundamental guideline regarding what will and will not be allowed in the forum that directly relates to third-party retailers that essentially compete with our vendors, over those vendors who paid their vendor fees based on clear representations and guidelines about what will and will not be allowed in the forum?

Agreed that any agreement between vendors and the forum owners should be honored according to the terms. However, the answer to your question might relate to the greater question of whether the forum exists for the vendors or for the members, along with how much influence paying vendors should have. Do you really want them to have more of a say than paying/non-paying members? Surely it wouldn't be ideal if vendors dictated the terms of use and enacted censorship and, as much as some people like the previous admin, this seems to have been happening in the past. In this sense, having a non-vendor 3rd party come in to take on admin should bring greater objectivity to things.

mkmk
03-28-2013, 03:46 PM
It's not about Mark.

Let me repeat that: it's not about Mark.

It's about whether or not you trust your members to carry on a civil conversation about the pros and cons of various products and services. The vibe here, clearly, is that you don't.

chinacats
03-28-2013, 03:50 PM
Try to carry on a civil conversation about one of Mark's crap knives or service on his forum and you will see censorship.

MKMK, it's likely more about Mark than you may think...

Mucho, glad you've had good luck buying from Mark, others haven't been as fortunate.



mark and his cohorts have their own crappy forum. lets keep it that way. :plus1:

Duckfat
03-28-2013, 03:54 PM
Its sad that marks get a bad wrap here and can't defend himself.

Mark and his Merry band of misfits have destroyed enough forums with all of their BS, Shilling, paid reviews, paid writers, free knives for reviews etc. If you want to swim in that pool then you know where it's at but don't play on the beach and then cry because you got sand in your pu**y. I'm not a fan of censorship but the reality in this virtual playground is that there has to be some rules. As long as that censorship doesn't extend to the point that people are getting banned or locked out of the forum ala KF with their nuckin futty super mod I'm good with that.
I'm not about to start slapping Dave on the back for selling out but I do wish him all the best.

Paradox
03-28-2013, 03:56 PM
*Sigh*.

I don't think you've read through the thread and you're missing the point. It's not about calling a spade a spade. It's about changing some fundamental guidelines that have been in place since nearly the very beginning of this forum regarding censorship and not allowing certain third-party retailers to be identified, whether by website links or by name.

Sure the vendors pay to help their bottom line. But, they paid their fees based on certain clear representations and guidelines about what will be and will not be allowed in the forum.

The point I was making was that should a non-paying member have more influence in changing a fundamental guideline regarding what will and will not be allowed in the forum that directly relates to third-party retailers that essentially compete with our vendors, over those vendors who paid their vendor fees based on clear representations and guidelines about what will and will not be allowed in the forum?

You are wrong I have read the whole thread and there is nothing wrong with my comprehension. What you are missing is that because something has always been a certain way does not make it the correct or best way. Everyone who participates here should have an equal say to what needs changing and what does not. Payment status should have nothing to do with it in either direction.

In the end it will be the new ownership that decides where to go with the forum that is what you get to do when you actually do pay the bills. I appreciate that they are allowing this conversation to happen in the meantime lots of stuff is being said that needs to be.

mkmk
03-28-2013, 04:03 PM
Obviously, the policy is there because of Mark. My point is that the effect of the policy is to erode the credibility of the entire forum.

By suggesting that it's time to grow up and stop the censorship, I'm not asking for people to change their opinions, or to invite particular vendors in. I'm ultimately asking for a declaration of confidence in the members. If people are shilling or picking fights, it can dealt with by the mods -- but censorship conveys distrust, and merely reinforces the sense that this disagreement is emotional, personal, and irrational, rather than one that can be convincingly argued with clear evidence and a cool head.

If Dave wants to convince me I shouldn't do business with someone, he can do it with a combination of dispassionate details and ample opportunity for those with different experiences to speak up. I have yet to see either of those things.

One other key way in which the censorship nonsense erodes confidence in the opinions expressed here: it trickles into evaluations of knives. I've seen multiple brand comparisons that aren't really about the knives at all, but rather about the vendor. That's damaging to the entire conversation, and even to the preferred vendors here.

labor of love
03-28-2013, 04:08 PM
the whole point of this forum is to be an alternative to marks crap. at least, thats what i thought it was. if you include knifeforums, he actually has 2 forums where his word is law. if you really want to converse with him just go check in over there every once in a while. and BTW, he has defended himself-by comepletely denying that there was anything ever wrong with moritaka grinds period. wabi sabi anyone? the idea that mark has a place here is laughable.
welcome to the forum austin! lol

chinacats
03-28-2013, 04:24 PM
If Dave wants to convince me I shouldn't do business with someone, he can do it with a combination of dispassionate details and ample opportunity for those with different experiences to speak up. I have yet to see either of those things.


go read a moritaka thread and report back...

mkmk
03-28-2013, 04:40 PM
Several of you seem to want to argue about the products/vendor; my point is that censorship erodes the credibility of the entire discussion. I'm not taking sides.

Anyway -- my point has been made. A new owner will take over, and will ultimately have to decide whether this is a discussion forum, or a marketing platform for particular vendors. It can't be both.

clayton
03-28-2013, 04:45 PM
A new owner will take over, and will ultimately have to decide whether this is a discussion forum, or a marketing platform for particular vendors. It can't be both.

Why not?

I feel like as long as there is the ability to discuss the marketed products/services then all is well. I have learned a lot from participating vendors here and would not want to miss their contributions.

mkmk
03-28-2013, 04:51 PM
Sure, it can be a discussion forum with sponsorship (with full disclosure), but not as long as there is censorship of links and names. I look to this forum for a variety of things, but independent and objective assessment of products and vendors isn't one of them. The rules, as they are currently enforced, require me to read with a significant grain of salt.

And though I've said it a dozen times, I'm not defending anyone. I'm simply saying: if you want me to trust your opinions, drop the silly rules about saying someone's name. It only erodes your credibility.

Patatas Bravas
03-28-2013, 04:56 PM
I suppose some would say that it can be both, but that censorship isn't required to do so. I'm curious, however, what influence vendors have behind the scenes and to what extent they might influence censorship, membership bans, and so forth. Are things as fair as most members seem to think?

Paradox
03-28-2013, 04:59 PM
mkmk you are on to something here. Your last couple of postes were well said. But it's a shame you might get overlooked since you didn't pay up. ;)

mhlee
03-28-2013, 05:01 PM
if you include knifeforums, he actually has 2 forums where his word is law. if you really want to converse with him just go check in over there every once in a while. and BTW, he has defended himself-by comepletely denying that there was anything ever wrong with moritaka grinds period. wabi sabi anyone? the idea that mark has a place here is laughable.
welcome to the forum austin! lol

+ 1

mpukas
03-28-2013, 05:03 PM
Curiously, I noticed that neither ajhuff nor mpukas are even paid members. Just sayin'.

Thanks for pointing that out. I had overlooked the subscription. Current.

Besides, what difference does it make? Yeah I read your other posts about it. If some one is not a paid member, does their opinion matter less? Makes no difference if someone is a paid vendor, subscriber, non-paying member - if you're a member you can post your opinion. As long as you follow the rules and don't piss someone off & get banned...

Furthermore, I'm not bad mouthing Dave. I have no personal issues with him or his business. But if he engages in behavior, as the Mod and founder, that is inappropriate and would get another member banned, I'm gonna call him out on it.

Mike9
03-28-2013, 05:05 PM
Man - you guys are spinning this into a conspiracy theory. If you don't like it here move along - there are plenty of knife forums out there. After all . . . this is the internet.

labor of love
03-28-2013, 05:08 PM
i don't understand why it cant be both, a discussion forum and a marketing platform for vendors. infact, i think thats pretty much what KKF is in a nutshell. these 2 things aren't mutually exclusive.

Mike9
03-28-2013, 05:10 PM
Actually I think they have become symbiotic. I build and service electric guitars and tube amps on the side. I belong to TGP - a forum that doubles in membership every year. There is a builders sub forum as well as BST, general info, ect. It functions much the same way as KKF only on a much bigger scale. And it works - why? - because there are rules. Rules put in place because of past events - it's called evolution.

WildBoar
03-28-2013, 05:11 PM
I came to this forum to escape the crap that went down in KF. I picked a side, and am still sticking with it.

I know what *** means, so frankly it doesn't matter to me one way or the other if the 'censorship' remains. But I sure as chit don't want the owner and his right-hand men polluting this forum.

And I really don't think everyone should have an equal say in what happens here. I find it humerous some people hang out here so much even though they don't like it, and have refused to contribute to the operating costs of the site. Why does this need to be provided for free to people who ***** about it?

Paradox
03-28-2013, 05:12 PM
the whole point of this forum is to be an alternative to marks crap. at least, thats what i thought it was. if you include knifeforums, he actually has 2 forums where his word is law.

I think it's been about 9 months since Mark last posted on knifeforums. I can not imagine how that could lead to his word being law there? But if you say it's so, it must be. ;)

mhlee
03-28-2013, 05:19 PM
You are wrong I have read the whole thread and there is nothing wrong with my comprehension. What you are missing is that because something has always been a certain way does not make it the correct or best way. Everyone who participates here should have an equal say to what needs changing and what does not. Payment status should have nothing to do with it in either direction.


Well, I've been perfectly happy with how things are so PLEASE DON'T CHANGE A THING.

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THAT I SEE ******* INSTEAD OF MARK'S LAST NAME. It brings a smile to my face.

It makes me so happy every time I look on the forum and see the asterisks that it makes me want to :bliss: And this :dance: And this :moonwalk: (And I'm not even exaggerating.)

I don't ever want to see any of Mark or his related vendors here. He openly cannibalizes the work of other vendors. He'll start carrying a product as soon as someone else starts carrying it and sells a lot of it, and then he'll try to undercut the prices of other vendors. See Beston, Bester, Rika combo, Fujiwara Teruyasu, Sakai Yusuke, etc.

Frankly, contrary to mkmk contends, we have had numerous discussions about Mark's knives here, whether its been the Artifex, Addict, etc. Some people have openly praised those knives. Others have had issues with them. How does that affect the credibility of the forum when we discuss his products, but just don't post his name?

mkmk
03-28-2013, 05:24 PM
Actually I think they have become symbiotic. I build and service electric guitars and tube amps on the side. I belong to TGP - a forum that doubles in membership every year. There is a builders sub forum as well as BST, general info, ect. It functions much the same way as KKF only on a much bigger scale. And it works - why? - because there are rules. Rules put in place because of past events - it's called evolution.


I know that forum well. There are no Voldemort figures there whose names can't even be uttered. Nothing even close.

The policy here is silly, childish, and counter-productive. And yes, I know, I'll just be accused of somehow defending Voldemort, which is ********. Beyond that, I'm relatively new and haven't contributed yet, so to many of you that means I have little credibility. Consider it this way, though: when a new person comes in here, he sees a lot of great info, some great people, and some foolish circling of the wagons and antagonistic tendencies that erode the credibility of the whole site. Maybe that's fine. You should be able to recognize, though, that it rubs off on the very people you're trying to protect.

WildBoar
03-28-2013, 05:25 PM
My understanding was the use of ***** helps the threads/ this forum from coming up during seached for richmond, etc., so his name does not get a rankings boost due to the thread links. But frankly I'm not savvy on the search engine ranking proceedures, so I am just relaying what I had heard.

I do wish words like *****, ******, ******** and **** ****** were not bleeped out though; a little cussin' never hurt anybody.

jayhay
03-28-2013, 05:30 PM
I look to this forum for a variety of things, but independent and objective assessment of products and vendors isn't one of them. The rules, as they are currently enforced, require me to read with a significant grain of salt.

Really?

A ton of people here have bought from Mark, probably everyone on the forum in the US (this is just a guess lol). Some have had good experiences, some have had bad, some just an ordinary transactions. People here are quite honest and straight forward. Members graciously pass around knives worth hundreds, give away amazing blades to people in need, and offer pertinent advise/suggestions to just about any question asked. I'm amazed at the detailed info freely given on the forum by people who make a career off of it, and by its members who are enthusiastic about their hobby. It's just that there are other sources for the same knives sold at chef knives to go, and other brands sold by different sources. Members do really make honest suggestions here.

I think the mods/admins understand some want less censorship. I could personally care less. This is a free resource/forum, like many others. Use them all, use none. I don't expect anything from it personally, just happy with what I find and the many kindnesses I see. This place is ran well ran, and I appreciate that. Check out overclock.net and avs forums, and you'll see the real world of internet forums. This place is an oasis in my opinion.

My suggestion to the management here would be to close this thread down, as everything that pretty much needs to be said has been said. Open a "Welcome/intro Austin" thread on a positive note. And let others with concern contact the appropriate person through a PM.

Austin
03-28-2013, 05:45 PM
I've read through the entirety of this thread. I thank you all for the welcomes.

I've spoken with many of you personally, both on the phone and through private messages, and I understand this issue very well.

Right now I will not be making and policy changes. Once I've been here a while I would be happy to revisit the policy, but for the time being there will be no changes.

Just let me get into the swing of things then we can take it from there.

Again, thanks for having me!

cwrightthruya
03-28-2013, 05:45 PM
My suggestion to the management here would be to close this thread down, as everything that pretty much needs to be said has been said. Open a "Welcome/intro Austin" thread on a positive note. And let others with concern contact the appropriate person through a PM.

I second that...

WildBoar
03-28-2013, 05:51 PM
NOW WAIT A MINUTE

Did you increase the allowable avatar size???? :doublethumbsup:

Mike9
03-28-2013, 05:56 PM
NOW WAIT A MINUTE

Did you increase the allowable avatar size???? :doublethumbsup:

Looks Texas size to me

stevenStefano
03-28-2013, 05:57 PM
Just curious. Dave, do you still have mod powers or are you totally "out" and now solely a vendor on the forums? Welcome to the new owner, I like your attitude already

I don't want to get into it too much because I know a lot of people get pretty emotional about everything, but to those who are criticising the censorship policy, I'd like them to look to Foodie Forums. That place was the first forum I posted in and was awesome, a high percentage of the members here posted there and it was very popular. However, soon certain vendors started making a mass of posts about their products and everything went downhill. In my opinion there wasn't really a clear way to deal with vendors and Fred was perhaps underprepared for it, the admin policy was a bit of a mess and it's now little more than a shell of what it once was. Just something to think about for those who don't like how Dave does things

Dave Martell
03-28-2013, 06:04 PM
Just curious. Dave, do you still have mod powers or are you totally "out" and now solely a vendor on the forums? Welcome to the new owner, I like your attitude already


I'm still on as a mod for the time being to help with a smooth transition. I'll become just another vendor soon enough though.

maxim
03-28-2013, 06:32 PM
Very good point, i also will hate that this forum become like FF or Knifeforum. So big :plus1: on keeping all how it is, childish or not but it works and we all know that other thing dont.
So i think if you want all that **** and followers opinions go to other forums and see, it is not like KKF is only forum out there.


Also look how just talking about it escalates to big discussion imagine if they was here :scared1:




I don't want to get into it too much because I know a lot of people get pretty emotional about everything, but to those who are criticising the censorship policy, I'd like them to look to Foodie Forums. That place was the first forum I posted in and was awesome, a high percentage of the members here posted there and it was very popular. However, soon certain vendors started making a mass of posts about their products and everything went downhill. In my opinion there wasn't really a clear way to deal with vendors and Fred was perhaps underprepared for it, the admin policy was a bit of a mess and it's now little more than a shell of what it once was. Just something to think about for those who don't like how Dave does things

Lefty
03-28-2013, 07:09 PM
I hate what happened to FF. It was my first home, in this crazy world. I was a member at KF, and never liked it too much, but FF felt like this place does. Good call on pointing it out, because it's ridiculous!

Muchobuchos - PM me for my number and we can chat. Sorry about not including it on here, but with my work schedule, etc, it's tough to have "unscheduled" calls. I hope you understand. Even Pierre texts before he calls. Haha

barramonday
03-28-2013, 07:15 PM
Just wanted to say thanks Dave and Mods for all your efforts thus far.

Good luck luck to Austin and team heading forward!

SpikeC
03-28-2013, 07:28 PM
It seems like there are always a few individuals who think that "free speech" is some sort of absolute right. It does not exists on the Internet! Never has and never will. If you get your panties in a bind because of the rules of a forum or list you will never find peace! Get over your precious self.

WillC
03-28-2013, 07:37 PM
Well although a bit of a shock, and with all the questions it raises, but this thread has answered them and the feeling seems very positive. I very pleased for Dave in that he will be able to properly devote his time to making, I think you should build a little charcoal forge next Dave, you know you want to get something hot and hit it, new ways to get covered in dust are always good:D
And Welcome to Austin and thank you for the explanations via pm.:)

Heath Besch
03-28-2013, 08:30 PM
I am a late commer to the forum and also to this thread.
Firstly, Dave. My heartfelt thanks and admiration for what you have done for the community and for myself. I know that your sacrifice has been great.
To Austin, I admire all that you have said and look forward to seeing you live up to your words.
For my fellow members, it has been said many time in this thread that 'WE make this space happen'. I feel that that is the essence of our community. Just because we have lost our initial leader, it does not mean that we cannot continue forward. Moreso we should follow the good examples laid down by admirable people to help guide our way. Let us not forget that we are the power behind this. It is up to us to collectively agree to agree as swell as agree to disagree.

It is an unenviable situation to be responsible to so many opinions. The choices one has to make according to others action are equally heavy, if not more. Others have expressed a wait and see attitude.
I challenge those to a more active role. Let us make our voice count. Is this not place where opinions should be heard. But let us not forget to construct those opinions to a manner that is informative and constructive. Rather than aggressive and demeaning.
My 2 cts.
Best regards to all, Heath

Dusty
03-28-2013, 10:44 PM
I like knives and like reading about intelligent people's discussion of them. I think we all have that in common. Huge thanks to Dave for creating and curating a great forum. Good luck with the future of kkf Austin.

Chef Niloc
03-28-2013, 11:30 PM
Reading all this "Marks ok" stuff has me wondering? I don't want to do some long drawn out search to find it but if I'm correct it was publicly posted that the whole censorship was due to real threats made of legal allegations on there part? If I'm right Dave was just trying to protect himself from some guy with deep pockets and a Itchy lawyer trigger finger?

As for Dave not bad mouthing people and calling them out on there scams and B.S., that's what I was actually hoping would come back. That's the old Dave I remember and miss to be quite honest, bring him back!

Chefdog
03-28-2013, 11:43 PM
i don't understand why it cant be both, a discussion forum and a marketing platform for vendors. infact, i think thats pretty much what KKF is in a nutshell. these 2 things aren't mutually exclusive.
This makes sense to me. This place offers a different MO than KF or FF (which both hardly generate any worthwhile discussion any more) but it obviously has worked because it gets lots of traffic and keeps a lot of very knowledgable and passionate members who are very active. That should tell us that maybe there's something to the way it's been run???
Bottom line: KKF offers the most intelligent and entertaining knife related discussion on the Internet. A bonus is that it hosts some of the best vendors in the business, which is good for all of us.



I do wish words like *****, ******, ******** and **** ****** were not bleeped out though; a little cussin' never hurt anybody.

A-F*ck*ng-men to that. We're all big boys and girls. Swearing is in my DNA, I'm a cook.

Chuckles
03-29-2013, 12:11 AM
"Real Housewives of Menstruating Knife Knutz"

:rofl2:

I heart knifeknerd. I think he should be homecoming king this year.

Thanks Dave, this is a great place.

Welcome Austin.

NO ChoP!
03-29-2013, 12:25 AM
Some may remember that I went to battle for much of what is being said in this thread from early on; and I too have no personal agenda. I think Dave has come a long way in self censoring. We all have opinions, but honestly....this is old news. The big split happened years ago now and should be left alone. The dust has settled, and personally I like my air fresh. Thus far Austin has displayed great restraint and I applaud him for that. Lets not make him think he married into a family with a bunch of misfit children.

Maxim, they say the best form of flattery is imitation...you must be doing something right, right?

Lucretia
03-29-2013, 01:30 AM
I was going to comment on real menstruating housewives being a lot less whiney than you guys, but it would probably make you cry.

:sad0:

sachem allison
03-29-2013, 01:34 AM
Baby. Doll! Missed you.

Miles
03-29-2013, 02:43 AM
I'm well aware of the back story which informed some of the decisions that Dave made regarding vendors on the forum. I'm very much in favor of keeping the basic rules in place regarding vendors marketing themselves. I posted on KF for a long time. I was there when FF was founded and I was here when KKF was founded so I've seen all of it. I still occasionally post on the old forums, but spend the bulk of my forum time here. One of the primary reasons is that Dave made a conscious decision to do his best to keep the main forums free of the kind of marketing which is still very common over at KF. I feel that the member based focus of this forum is what makes it what it is and what makes it a valuable resource. The fact that the vendors here are open about who they are and the posts which can arguably be referred to as marketing are largely confined to their subforums keeps the main forums clean of the kind of passive marketing which is ubiquitous over at KF. Make no mistake, even though the fellow whom is referred to most in this discussion does not post directly at KF, his partners are active in keeping the forum well stocked with new video "reviews". I don't take issue with this, as I am well aware of what they are, but I appreciate a forum that is member driven and keeps the marketing where it should be. I do believe that the vendors here are all reputable and of the very highest caliber. I think that makes it easier to keep a bit of a firewall between the main forums and the vendor forums. Despite the deep conflict that helped inform this choice when the KKF forum was founded, keeping the main forums clear of "aggressive" passive marketing is part of why this forum is so valuable. I hope that Austin and the new owners will keep this foremost in their thoughts as they move forward. I have great faith that Dave would choose folks who understand and respect how important this is to the fabric of the forum. I expect that any changes in the future will be made with this in mind and that this community will continue to be both enjoyable for everyone and will be a great resource for those who seek it.

chuck239
03-29-2013, 02:45 AM
This is getting good. Since I don't want to violate the terms of my re-instatement from being terminated, I'll just watch the show. :)

:popcorn:

-AJ

AJ,

Great job at sitting back and watching! Isn't that what got you the boot in the first place? Just being here to learn then peddling stuff out without signing up like your supposed to? Your opinion is pretty jaded if you ask me. Someone who can't follow the basic rules now having the nerve to come back and act like an immature child. If you want to sell you products based off of any reputation gained from this forum act like a vendor like the other 10-20 who have signed up and paid for there membership. Until then, stop your bitching.

Mkmk,

If you don't like this forum go to a "better" forum. KM is still sort of active. Try that... Also, you have been a member for 1 month. With a solid 15 posts prior to this. Where you a prior member that is no longer allowed here?


Dave,

Thanks for starting this forum and basically halting your knife maling to continue keeping this alive. I hope you can now get back to what you really want to be doing and haven't been able to focus on lately. Sorry you now have to deal with backlash from people who don't understand what this forum did to you professionally. Kinda sad to see that from some of these people. Again, thank you for using so much of your personal time to help run a hobby of yours and for putting your career on the back burner for all of us.

Vendors, I hope things work out well for all if you. So far if looks like they are not trying to change anything in you and I really hope it stays that way.

-Chuck

Miles
03-29-2013, 03:28 AM
The forum can continue to flourish if we all continue to offer our honest opinions in a respectful manner. While I don't know all of Dave's details, I'm pretty certain that forum owner and mod was never part of his business plan. I hope that this change can allow him to focus on the core parts of his business, making things sharp and making sharp things. I hope that the transition will be a smooth one and the new mods honor the spirit of the forum and Dave can look upon this change as a positive one for the forum and for him personally.

ajhuff
03-29-2013, 07:10 AM
***?

I'm not a vendor and I'm not selling anything. What the heck are you talking about. Furthermore, not a single one of my comments has anything to do with Mark and his associates. I don't want them here either.

-AJ



AJ,

Great job at sitting back and watching! Isn't that what got you the boot in the first place? Just being here to learn then peddling stuff out without signing up like your supposed to? Your opinion is pretty jaded if you ask me. Someone who can't follow the basic rules now having the nerve to come back and act like an immature child. If you want to sell you products based off of any reputation gained from this forum act like a vendor like the other 10-20 who have signed up and paid for there membership. Until then, stop your bitching.

Mkmk,

If you don't like this forum go to a "better" forum. KM is still sort of active. Try that... Also, you have been a member for 1 month. With a solid 15 posts prior to this. Where you a prior member that is no longer allowed here?


Dave,

Thanks for starting this forum and basically halting your knife maling to continue keeping this alive. I hope you can now get back to what you really want to be doing and haven't been able to focus on lately. Sorry you now have to deal with backlash from people who don't understand what this forum did to you professionally. Kinda sad to see that from some of these people. Again, thank you for using so much of your personal time to help run a hobby of yours and for putting your career on the back burner for all of us.

Vendors, I hope things work out well for all if you. So far if looks like they are not trying to change anything in you and I really hope it stays that way.

-Chuck

Marko Tsourkan
03-29-2013, 07:30 AM
I think my only reservation about a new ownership is the direction this forum will take in the years ahead. If by "growth" it will mean bringing as many vendors in as possible, worthy or not, some of us makers might be better off go our own ways and look for own markets outside the forum.

Other that that, I commend Dave and the KKF members for a good job they have done building this community. Good luck to new owners.

mkmk
03-29-2013, 07:32 AM
Mkmk,

If you don't like this forum go to a "better" forum. KM is still sort of active. Try that... Also, you have been a member for 1 month. With a solid 15 posts prior to this. Where you a prior member that is no longer allowed here?


Um, no. Feel free to ask a mod to check my IP address if you don't believe me. Which is ultimately my point: this childish censorship cultivates an atmosphere of distrust and petty vindictiveness.

Paranoid much? QED.

Yeah, I'm new. I like this place. I also think its a little weird, and could be better. I'd think that if the sponsoring vendors want to reach new customers, they'd want to know what it looks like to a newcomer. It's not as uniformly good as some of you seem to think.

Austin
03-29-2013, 07:52 AM
Looks Texas size to me

I catch heck for it sometimes, my given name is Austin. I think most people think it's made up because I live in Texas, but it's not, so I like to use the Texas skylines or a map as my avatar.

Mike Davis
03-29-2013, 08:12 AM
Thanks for everything Dave, now take a few weeks and breathe :) Austin, welcome to KKF, i sincerely hope this transition goes very smoothly.

Salty dog
03-29-2013, 09:08 AM
I would recommend the vendors here read up on Social Media Marketing. Although I find it distasteful it's almost becoming necessary.

Mark had it down years ago and caught everyone by surprise. He's a professional retailer, most people weren't quite ready for that either.

It is what it is. If I want to play ball in Jimmy's yard I have to follow his rules.

mhenry
03-29-2013, 09:42 AM
Thanks Dave, I have gotten so much enjoyment from this forum I just don't have the words, and I would probably misspell them anyway.
Welcome Austin, Texans or Cowboys?

Chef Niloc
03-29-2013, 09:52 AM
I catch heck for it sometimes, my given name is Austin. I think most people think it's made up because I live in Texas, but it's not, so I like to use the Texas skylines or a map as my avatar.

I think he was referring to the fact that the size of your avatar ilooks bigger than everyone else's, I.E. we can't make ours that big. I could be totally wrong here, but that's the way I Interpreted it.

labor of love
03-29-2013, 09:57 AM
social marketing might do wonders for ones own business, but its a forum killer. just look at KF and FF. forum traffic will die if people realize the discussion isnt authentic.

Chef Niloc
03-29-2013, 10:12 AM
The past few pages have mentioned how this forum has better discussions than other forums, ext. I think that is at least partially due to the fact that, 1) Dave was one of the oldest, most contributing, most informed, and respective members on the other. 2) When he left many if not most other highly contributing, highly informed /Knowledgeable members either left or were band with him. 3) The structure and atmosphere of this forum was better thought out then the others, it improved on there mistakes.

Another good example is that a thread like this (and many others like it in the past) would have been locked, or more likely removed in the other forum. I don't believe in this forum censors its members on expressing their beliefs and feelings, it just "censors" out the use of the names and links to sights that have been proven in the past to be destructive to forums like this. So I don't think censorship is the right word to be used in reference to these issues.

As for allowing the use of curse words I don't think that's really necessary. I to swear like a ************ but don't think threads filled with such words would make this forum any better? Remember the cut Brooklyn video and how stupid he looked for his use of the F bomb?

Lucretia
03-29-2013, 10:13 AM
I think he was referring to the fact that the size of your "avatar" ilooks bigger than everyone else's, I.E. we can't make ours that big.

I'll behave and not make a comment about this. Really.

Patatas Bravas
03-29-2013, 10:22 AM
Lucretia's avatar above is even bigger than Austin's Texas one from the looks of it.

Lucretia
03-29-2013, 10:27 AM
It's legal--sized it to 160 pixels on the longest side, and it's well within the allowed file size.

Dave Martell
03-29-2013, 10:57 AM
Regular Member avatar size limits...
100x100 pixels



Supporting Member avatar size limits...
160x160 pixels


Vendors avatar size limits...
160x160 pixels


Admin & Moderator avatar size limits...
160x160 pixels

NO ChoP!
03-29-2013, 11:08 AM
And I just thought someone really liked my canned bacon....

Dave Martell
03-29-2013, 11:13 AM
And I just thought someone really liked my canned bacon....


And we do! :)

Mike Davis
03-29-2013, 12:15 PM
Love the tactical bacon!!! Dave...does this mean you might actually answer the phone when people call now? ;)

Dave Martell
03-29-2013, 12:53 PM
Dave...does this mean you might actually answer the phone when people call now? ;)

There's a 50/50 chance on that now. LOL :D

SpikeC
03-29-2013, 03:56 PM
It's legal--sized it to 160 pixels on the longest side, and it's well within the allowed file size.

Sure, hide behind a technicality!

mkmk
03-29-2013, 05:14 PM
In Texas, even the pixels are bigger....

Chef Niloc
03-30-2013, 12:22 AM
Regular Member avatar size limits...
100x100 pixels



Supporting Member avatar size limits...
160x160 pixels


Vendors avatar size limits...
160x160 pixels


Admin & Moderator avatar size limits...
160x160 pixels

Ahhhhhhhhh much bigger (:

Cipcich
03-30-2013, 03:01 AM
At the further risk of being accused of using bad form, or even whining, how many of you have looked the "forums" managed by Groupbuilders?
I suppose it's possible that this forum will somehow be the exception (I doubt it), but what I see is a very homogenized product. On the surface are articles of supposed interest, a list of vendors and their websites, and a Facebook-based discussion.
Take a look before you make a judgement or a bunch of jokes.

Cipcich
03-30-2013, 04:02 AM
What? No comment? Why might if be profitable to acquire KKF?
Let's see . . .
You charge "vendors" to be listed on the right side of the screen, with links to their websites.
You put adds all over the place.
You essentially subcontract "discussion" to Facebook.
Nothing to it.
Former members, especially those "disgruntled" ones, fall by the wayside, but by dint of cross-linked advertising, you attract many more eyes to you "forum".

Cipcich
03-30-2013, 04:04 AM
Almost forgot. Posts like this no longer show up in "Home" or "Whats New?".

Cipcich
03-30-2013, 04:19 AM
The silence is deafening.
While I realize that it's 1:15 a.m PST, I know there at least few people on line.
One possibility is that I've completely misread the situation, and everyone is embarrassed to point that out. That, however, strikes me as unlikely, since people seem to stay up late for that very purpose.
The other is that I'm right, and KKF is doomed to become just another exit on Groupbuilders highway to superficial crap.
Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

Cipcich
03-30-2013, 04:31 AM
But, we didn't know . . .

Cipcich
03-30-2013, 04:40 AM
Oh wait. It just dawned on me that, as a "Supporting Member", I am entitled to a bigger avatar.
I'll get right on that. Forget everything I said . . . I just want to be one of the gang.

Cipcich
03-30-2013, 05:10 AM
I just logged on to "ChickenForums.com" because I wanted to be sure I wan't imagining things.
Nope. Bunch of chickens on Facebook.
You guys'll be right at home.

Stumblinman
03-30-2013, 06:10 AM
I saw their other sites and can't find another running vbulletin with as many vendors as here. And they're growing a niche, I mean who has heard of a goat forum?...
yeah I know change sucks but it is what it is.
THanks Dave
And a note to Austin..... I haven't been banned yet, even though I have off the cuff passionate (for no reason) comments. I love knives and cooking and god help me (please I mean really help me I don't wanna cook till I die) I'll be using them till I die.

ecchef
03-30-2013, 06:14 AM
Hey, I'm still up...it's only early evening. Funny that, I found this in "What's New".
Nothing really new to discuss other than easy ways to raise post counts. :whistling:


Stumblinman, why are you surprised that you haven't been banned yet? :scratchhead::dontknow:

Stumblinman
03-30-2013, 06:17 AM
So what does 'founding member' mean ?

wenus2
03-30-2013, 06:24 AM
Badges?
We don't need no stinking... Oh wait, here it is:
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/6664-Tags-(Badges)-What-do-they-mean

Stumblinman
03-30-2013, 06:36 AM
Nice, thanks! that was informative wenus2 . Hehh sorry Ecchef just messin' around I guess. I try not to let the pressures of work influence me but sometimes I can't help it then I start spurting off about knife bags of all things and feel stupid about it later. This thread has dumber posts then I've made though LOL

Stumblinman
03-30-2013, 06:44 AM
http://cdn.thegoatspot.net/images/9/2/4/0/thumb2_image1-692.jpg

ajhuff
03-30-2013, 08:17 AM
One other suggestion for improvement. Now that we've gone corporate, maybe add image hosting.

-AJ

knyfeknerd
03-30-2013, 08:20 AM
This thread=A dead horse

Pensacola Tiger
03-30-2013, 09:00 AM
One other suggestion for improvement. Now that we've gone corporate, maybe add image hosting.

-AJ

We already have image hosting.

ajhuff
03-30-2013, 09:12 AM
Sorry. I thought we had it for awhile and then it got turned off. My mistake.

-AJ

mkmk
03-30-2013, 11:28 AM
At the further risk of being accused of using bad form, or even whining, how many of you have looked the "forums" managed by Groupbuilders?
I suppose it's possible that this forum will somehow be the exception (I doubt it), but what I see is a very homogenized product. On the surface are articles of supposed interest, a list of vendors and their websites, and a Facebook-based discussion.
Take a look before you make a judgement or a bunch of jokes.


What? No comment? Why might if be profitable to acquire KKF?
Let's see . . .
You charge "vendors" to be listed on the right side of the screen, with links to their websites.
You put adds all over the place.
You essentially subcontract "discussion" to Facebook.
Nothing to it.
Former members, especially those "disgruntled" ones, fall by the wayside, but by dint of cross-linked advertising, you attract many more eyes to you "forum".

I'm not seeing that. Yes, the front pages of these forums are more consistent and commercialized, and there are more social media connections -- but if you click the forum link, it's a very familiar discussion forum layout. I don't see anything to be inherently worried about there.

DevinT
03-30-2013, 12:59 PM
REMEMBER: Don't drink and post. Safe boating is no accident.

Hoss

brainsausage
03-30-2013, 11:35 PM
Is it safe to put my head up now? Has the dust settled? Are the trenches clear? Did the Hulk revert to Banner? Is everything back to 'normal'? Is Rachel Ray full of **** flavored frosting? Am I asking a slew of redundant questions?

Korin_Mari
04-03-2013, 10:31 AM
Thank you so much for all of your hard work. I'm glad to hear that you'll still be on the forums. :)

Zwiefel
04-03-2013, 11:07 AM
This thread=A dead horse

Nah, that happened around page 9 or 10...it's a pile of ectoplasm now. :)