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View Full Version : oiling board with wanlut oil, do i need to worry about patron allergies?



andygraybeal
04-02-2013, 09:23 PM
I've been oiling my Boardsmith board with edible walnut oil I bought from Krogers. I wonder if I have to worry about customer's allergies?

Andy

Jmadams13
04-02-2013, 09:25 PM
I would worry about it, you know how people are now days. Also, what about it going rancid?

panda
04-02-2013, 09:25 PM
why not just use mineral oil?

andygraybeal
04-02-2013, 09:29 PM
I would worry about it, you know how people are now days. Also, what about it going rancid?

This website says it won't go rancid: http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/article/food-safe-finishes.aspx

andygraybeal
04-02-2013, 09:29 PM
why not just use mineral oil?

Isn't getting away from fossil fuels or byproducts a good thing in general?

EdipisReks
04-02-2013, 09:31 PM
Isn't getting away from fossil fuels or byproducts a good thing in general?

if every single person on earth who oils a cutting board switched, i doubt it would make the tiniest iota of a difference.

Chef Doom
04-02-2013, 10:27 PM
I refuse to use mineral oil to oil any of my wood boards. REFUSE REFUSE REFUSE!!!!

Johnny.B.Good
04-02-2013, 10:30 PM
I refuse to use mineral oil to oil any of my wood boards. REFUSE REFUSE REFUSE!!!!

Because..........?

markenki
04-02-2013, 10:56 PM
This website says it won't go rancid: http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/article/food-safe-finishes.aspx
That site recommends the finish I've been using (and which I learned of from David the Boardsmith): a mixture of mineral oil and beeswax.

andygraybeal
04-03-2013, 08:50 AM
I refuse to use mineral oil to oil any of my wood boards. REFUSE REFUSE REFUSE!!!!

What oil do you use?

Dusty
04-03-2013, 09:09 AM
I use grapeseed, no rancidity, no issues.

andygraybeal
04-03-2013, 10:13 AM
I use grapeseed, no rancidity, no issues.

Do you know if this grapeseed oil is better allergy-wise? Or is this even a non-issue even with walnut oil?

franzb69
04-03-2013, 10:42 AM
did a quick googling and there are people who are allergic to grapeseed oil.

http://www.healthypages.co.uk/forum/massage/62535-client-allergic-reaction-grape-seed-oil.html

can't really say much, other than just use mineral oil. cheap, effective, readily available and isn't allergic to people.

and yes i understand your position with dependence to petroleum products. but oh well, can't really escape from it this time.

Patatas Bravas
04-03-2013, 12:20 PM
By the way, I admire the 'refuse' stance on mineral oil even though I admit that's what I've got too. Not so sure if much attention is given to wider issues like this on KKF, we're so into our knives. Someone commented that if all the people who use mineral oil for boards in the world stopped it wouldn't make one iota of difference. Yet, on the other hand there's concern for things like the tiny possibility of a cutting board with grapeseed oil causing an allergic reaction with a customer. I'm sure if we all used grapeseed oil it wouldn't make much difference to diners. Both issues may be important.

True!

franzb69
04-03-2013, 12:29 PM
practically any natural oil you can think of can be allergic. just gotta find one that's the least allergic of the bunch.

i've even checked linseed oil and i've found that that too can make certain people have allergic reactions.

linseed oil is from flax seeds and is food safe. might be a cheaper option.

tung oil is another good option, takes forever to cure (the pure stuff!), and again can cause allergic reactions for people with nut allergies.


i find it odd that in my country barely anyone i know has any food allergies. only folks that i do know that do are pure caucasian or part caucasian or something or other.

mkmk
04-03-2013, 12:33 PM
I would stick with mineral oil and beeswax. The chance of an allergic reaction is very small, but it's possible. I'd rather eliminate it as a potential worry.

franzb69
04-03-2013, 12:36 PM
also googled bee's wax, also can be potentially allergic.

everything's freakin' allergic. too many worries. sheesh.

franzb69
04-03-2013, 12:51 PM
i've met germans, americans, french, spanish, belgian, scottish, australian, canadian, and probably a few others i can't remember. been to the US, Mexico, China, Hongkong and Thailand.

sorry to say but the most allergy phobic people i've met are, well, americans.

the ones i've met that have food allergies the most are americans, germans and the spanish. (or at least say they are, i've read that some folks just say they're allergic to something but only claim that so they don't get to eat it coz they don't want it in their food)

i too have allergies, but it's not food related. antibiotics and dust.

not trying to ruffle any feathers here but these are just observations.

ok i'll shut up now. getting OT.

Zwiefel
04-03-2013, 01:20 PM
There is a kind of "culture of pride" around things like this in America these days. People adopt these things into their identity.

mkmk
04-03-2013, 01:24 PM
I'm sure there's plenty of exaggeration and misplaced anxiety, but the rise of food allergies is pretty well documented, and not entirely imaginary. I've got a friend (South Asian, btw, not anglo), whose daughter is fatally allergic to LOTS of stuff, tree nuts included. It's not imaginary -- I've seen her in the hospital. Of course, even 20 years ago, she wouldn't have lived a month, so she wouldn't have shown up on the allergy statistics at all. (And no, her parents don't expect to ever take her into a restaurant -- they do everything they can to deal with it themselves.)

If someone is paying me to cook, and it's easy to substitute out a different product, I'll do it. I don't think a commercial kitchen is a place to make a political stand about "hysteria", esp. when there are enough real cases, and it costs nothing to accommodate.

franzb69
04-03-2013, 01:33 PM
there have been a lot of studies of the rise of food related allergies over the past few decades and they say it's probably from a few things that's been introduced into our food system and medical system around the same time the rise of food allergies has been going up.

they say these are from probably from the following:

pesticides and or other chemicals
hormones, antibiotics into our food
vaccinations, some view this as necessary and and others certain ones unnecessary
gmo products
food like substances replacing actual food

this is according to some research that i've been following for a couple years, only saying what has been said on these articles


i also remarked about some people saying that they're just flat out lying about what they're really allergic to just so they don't get to have it in their bodies...

it's coz of all these darn diets that have been coming out. lol.

again just an observation

ok i'll REALLY shut up now. final comment.

Zwiefel
04-03-2013, 01:34 PM
I'm sure there's plenty of exaggeration and misplaced anxiety, but the rise of food allergies is pretty well documented, and not entirely imaginary. I've got a friend (South Asian, btw, not anglo), whose daughter is fatally allergic to LOTS of stuff, tree nuts included. It's not imaginary -- I've seen her in the hospital. Of course, even 20 years ago, she wouldn't have lived a month, so she wouldn't have shown up on the allergy statistics at all. (And no, her parents don't expect to ever take her into a restaurant -- they do everything they can to deal with it themselves.)

If someone is paying me to cook, and it's easy to substitute out a different product, I'll do it. I don't think a commercial kitchen is a place to make a political stand about "hysteria", esp. when there are enough real cases, and it costs nothing to accommodate.

Don't disagree with any of that.

EdipisReks
04-03-2013, 02:04 PM
there have been a lot of studies of the rise of food related allergies over the past few decades and they say it's probably from a few things that's been introduced into our food system and medical system around the same time the rise of food allergies has been going up.

they say these are from probably from the following:

pesticides and or other chemicals
hormones, antibiotics into our food
vaccinations, some view this as necessary and and others certain ones unnecessary
gmo products
food like substances replacing actual food

this is according to some research that i've been following for a couple years, only saying what has been said on these articles


[citation needed]

franzb69
04-03-2013, 02:17 PM
as requested:

http://www.voanews.com/content/pesticide-suspected-in-rising-food-allergy-cases/1560760.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2242094/Chlorine-tap-water-linked-increase-number-people-developing-food-allergies.html

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/08/03/food.allergies.er.gut/index.html

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/04/pesticides-in-tap-water-produce-linked-to-food-allergies/

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_5296.cfm

all these chemicals and stuff put into our food can't be good for us.

if you check vaccine components which are listed on the CDC's website for each vaccine, they have MERCURY and many many other poisonous components included. they even have monkey brains as part of some vaccines, that just sets off alarms in my head. i'm no scientist or immunologist but i don't think it'd be good for you.

mkmk
04-03-2013, 02:20 PM
I've had environmental allergies of various sorts all my life (hay fever, mold, etc.), but have never had any real food problems. One of my brothers goes into anaphylaxis if he eats crab, and raw shrimp make my hands itch, but that's about it. Well, in the past couple of years, scrambled eggs make me nauseous, which is a bummer because I really like a good omelette. Not really an allergy -- just a relatively mild digestive insensitivity.

It's a hard thing to sort out -- there are many factors, and the signal/noise ratio for diagnosis is probably pretty poor. I've read about lots of factors, too -- and I've heard more than one doctor say that one sure way to get food allergies statistics back down to where they were a generation or two back would be to let a bunch of kids with them die. Seriously. There's a reason why you don't hear much about food allergies in the developing world. They're not advocating this, mind you.

A lot of the food issues people deal with are due less to true allergies, and more to digestive problems. Researchers know even less about our gut than they do about allergies, which can at least be tested for (in most cases). There's some interesting work that suggests that one contributing factor is the prevalence of Caesarian births in the US, which short-circuits the infant's normal exposure to beneficial bacteria through the birth canal. Pretty wild, but fascinating.

A pretty good accessible article about bacteria:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/10/22/121022fa_fact_specter?currentPage=all

EdipisReks
04-03-2013, 02:26 PM
as requested:

http://www.voanews.com/content/pesticide-suspected-in-rising-food-allergy-cases/1560760.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2242094/Chlorine-tap-water-linked-increase-number-people-developing-food-allergies.html

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/08/03/food.allergies.er.gut/index.html

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/04/pesticides-in-tap-water-produce-linked-to-food-allergies/

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_5296.cfm

all these chemicals and stuff put into our food can't be good for us.

if you check vaccine components which are listed on the CDC's website for each vaccine, they have MERCURY and many many other poisonous components included. they even have monkey brains as part of some vaccines, that just sets off alarms in my head. i'm no scientist or immunologist but i don't think it'd be good for you.

lol. this thread is done.

franzb69
04-03-2013, 02:28 PM
yeah yeah funny...

mkmk
04-03-2013, 02:30 PM
I'm as worried about chemicals as anyone, but the mercury thing is wildly overstated. I do agree that we probably don't really understand the range of interactions from the various crap we put in our bodies.

EdipisReks
04-03-2013, 02:30 PM
yeah yeah funny...

here is a nice little starting point for you (http://www.quackwatch.com), franzb69.

franzb69
04-03-2013, 02:38 PM
i have my own beliefs, and you have yours.

i would appreciate it if you would at least act your age. we are all adults here.

if you think the dribble that i have been spouting is nonsense or whatever, you could have at least done it in a better way.

i won't feed the fire anymore. i shut up now.

EdipisReks
04-03-2013, 02:41 PM
i have my own beliefs, and you have yours.

i would appreciate it if you would at least act your age. we are all adults here.

if you think the dribble that i have been spouting is nonsense or whatever, you could have at least done it in a better way.

i won't feed the fire anymore. i shut up now.

if you want to be taken seriously, don't "cite" the Daily Mail online.

Johnny.B.Good
04-03-2013, 03:57 PM
if you check vaccine components which are listed on the CDC's website for each vaccine, they have MERCURY and many many other poisonous components included. they even have monkey brains as part of some vaccines, that just sets off alarms in my head. i'm no scientist or immunologist but i don't think it'd be good for you.

Which vaccines do you believe do more harm than good?

Dusty
04-03-2013, 05:06 PM
Do you know if this grapeseed oil is better allergy-wise? Or is this even a non-issue even with walnut oil?

I'm not saying the allergy is not legit, but I've never come across one, so I've had no issues yet.

Chef Doom
04-03-2013, 10:23 PM
Mineral oil is also used as a laxative. I don't put laxative products on my wood boards. Sure they label it as "food grade", but if it was really food grade people would cook with it? How many people hear drizzle a little mineral oil on their salad?

Coconut oil or palm oil are my go to oils when handy. I have a coconut oil beeswax blend that I'm working with right now. I look for anything that turns solid at room temperature. I've heard that the Italians oil their wood products with olive oil all the time but that could be one of those stereotypes. I believe it because it's one of those stereotypes that isn't really funny. Therefore it's not funny because it's true. Animal fats are good but I'm starting to get into rendering my own which makes it expensive.

Do you think if I used bacon grease instead it would at bacon flavor to anything I cut on the cutting board? Oh the possibilities. :cheffry:

Chef Doom
04-04-2013, 01:04 AM
Wow, just read through the rest of this thread.

All I can say is that the Amish community does not have a major problem with food allergies in contrast to the rest of the country.

ThEoRy
04-04-2013, 03:10 AM
It's only a laxative if consumed in copious amounts.

Chef Doom
04-04-2013, 03:27 AM
And rattlesnake poison is only deadly if the snake bites you too long.

Miles
04-04-2013, 04:38 AM
The short answer is "yes". If you're a professional, you always have to be concerned about customers' allergies and be responsive to their dietary restrictions. If you were allergic to nuts would you want to eat food which had been prepped on a board coated in walnut oil? Would you want to run that risk, however slight, knowing full well that it might kill you?

The prudent and wise choice would be to oil your boards with another oil which will not create this hazard and avoid the possibility all together.

The BoardSMITH
04-04-2013, 07:00 AM
Funny discussion. Went from what oil do I use to food allergies to "Look what they put in ______", back to allergies then finally back to the original topic.

So here is my opinion, backed by the USDA and my own personal experience.

Mineral oil, like it or hate it, is a super refined petroleum product. Used as a laxative in large amounts, it is totally inert and non-toxic. Okay, so you hate it, it is used in tons of cosmetics the ladies use, bakers use it as a mold release in large commercial bakeries, hand creams use it as a base, baby oil uses it as a base and it is in countless other places you may not expect. Don't like it, check the labels to see if it is an ingredient then quite using that product.

Peanut, olive, coconut, grapeseed and all other natural organic oils - all contain FAT which is what goes rancid. Go ahead and use peanut oil on your commercial board and when a diner has a reaction to the slightest tint of peanut oil, you can test out your liability insurance. (BTW just to be safe I have 2 million in liability insurance just to be safe.) And, notice the experts who push a particular type of oil as being the "Best" all have some connection with the maker or are the maker. Self-serving advertising!

Linseed oil is used as a base for PAINT. It will not dry unless it has chemical driers mixed in. Those driers are TOXIC! Same with tung oil. In the raw state it will almost never dry, until those chemical driers are added.

Don't like any of the above? Use nothing! Keep your board free from oils and use salt as a cleaner. Coat overnight then brush off in the morning. VIOLA! Clean, sanitized and dry. Sadly, I'll bet someone will find something against salt.

What it all boils down to is that we try to make something more complicated than it needs to be. Discuss it at length, tear all the details apart, micro-manage the smallest of details, it all boils down to how complicated can we make a simple subject.

My 2 cents worth.

Dusty
04-04-2013, 08:50 AM
Well I guess that's settled. Thanks Dave. Great post.

Chef Doom
04-04-2013, 10:43 PM
Well, I do check labels but I refuse to debate with you Dave. Your board is serving me too well and I plan on getting a couple more. I give you the win.

But...............I would like someone to point me to an article or study that showed that a person can get an allergic reaction based on a cutting board that was oiled with a certain food oil. A personal experience. You can even lie and make up a falsified story. Post a fake article. Anything will suffice.

ThEoRy
04-05-2013, 12:25 AM
Well, I do check labels but I refuse to debate with you Dave. Your board is serving me too well and I plan on getting a couple more. I give you the win.

But...............I would like someone to point me to an article or study that showed that a person can get an allergic reaction based on a cutting board that was oiled with a certain food oil. A personal experience. You can even lie and make up a falsified story. Post a fake article. Anything will suffice.

As soon as you post an article stating how someone got diarrhea from eating food that was cut on a mineral oil treated board I'll drum up your story. :)

Jmadams13
04-05-2013, 01:05 AM
^ made my right, lol

Chef Doom
04-05-2013, 01:39 AM
As soon as you post an article stating how someone got diarrhea from eating food that was cut on a mineral oil treated board I'll drum up your story. :)

Sometimes people can confuse it with food poisoning. Ive seen it first hand.

The BoardSMITH
04-05-2013, 06:18 AM
My post was simply my two cents worth based on what I have read from the USDA, internet and newspaper sources about people having reactions from nuts. That information abounds. But, don't think or even remotely insinuate that I would lie or make up a story just to prove my point. I won't! And if you think that I would demeans the discussion to a low point. "Nuff said!

Squilliam
04-05-2013, 06:28 AM
Chef Doom, from my understanding, mineral oil acts physically as a laxative by coating your bowels in oil. It doesn't act chemically at all. It's just there for its slippery properties. There is no way anyone is going to get a lubricating dose of mineral oil from a cutting board, even if they tried to suck it out with a straw.

ThEoRy
04-05-2013, 10:13 AM
Sometimes people can confuse it with food poisoning. Ive seen it first hand.

Unless it was actually food poisoning.. Just sayin.

Chef Doom
04-05-2013, 10:11 PM
Alas, some things will forever be an eternal mystery.

Andy, my advice would be to stop using it if you are afraid of getting sued. That would be the appropriate American response. If not, oil away.

EdipisReks
04-05-2013, 10:39 PM
And rattlesnake poison is only deadly if the snake bites you too long.

i had to take go out of my way to view your post to read this, so it shouldn't be a surprise, but that, right there, is one of the dumbest things i've ever read, in my entire life.

cwrightthruya
04-05-2013, 10:56 PM
Although I am a late comer to this thread, If you will read the summaries of the linked articles it should point anyone who is concerned in the correct direction. This is from the International Journal of dermatology.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23414152

Here is a threshold distribution pattern for several food related allergies:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23199599

However, in this article, the number tested specifically for Walnut Protein allergy was too low for sufficient statistical significance to determine a probable threshold dose. However, I have contacted the authors in hopes of shedding a little more light specifically on this topic.
In my humble opinion...with the threshold range for nuts being between .26mg to 7.4mg....I would say use mineral oil.


As far as specific allergies and it's increased prevalence in recent years. The body of research suggests a combination of environmental factors and increased self reporting are the major culprits. The simplest explanation is that most people, especially in the US have developed a hyper-fixation on medicine/being healthy. This is then amplified by the mass media marketing by the "holistic" groups who push nothing but "organic" foods and products.
Please do not misunderstand the above statement. Allergies are a real problem, but it is still being determined whether the increased prevalence of such allergies is due to statistical increase in sensitization or if it is simply due to more people actually choosing to be seen for treatment.


Hope this Helps,

Regards,
Chris

cwrightthruya
04-05-2013, 10:57 PM
Also, of everything I have read in this thread. David (TheBoardsmith) is the closest to what I feel meets the current USDA recommendations for the food service industry in the US.

Johnny.B.Good
04-05-2013, 11:06 PM
In my humble opinion...with the threshold range for nuts being between .26mg and 7.4mg....I would say use mineral oil.

Given that mineral oil just makes sense, and that there are stories like this (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Allergies/college-freshman-peanut-allergy-dies-eating-cookie/story?id=18723777#.UV9-uRlAvnA) in the news, I would have to agree.

cwrightthruya
04-06-2013, 01:29 AM
A personal opinion only, not a professional one. But, I have the read the the two linked articles in their entirety (It is illegal to link the entire articles, so only the summary is allowed on the open internet), and do believe mineral oil is most likely the safest choice given the low threshold dose range observed for several nut species.


Regards,
Chris

Jmadams13
04-06-2013, 03:48 PM
i had to take go out of my way to view your post to read this, so it shouldn't be a surprise, but that, right there, is one of the dumbest things i've ever read, in my entire life.

And that is the funniest things I have ever read in my entire life

Chef Doom
04-07-2013, 03:59 AM
i had to take go out of my way to view your post to read this, so it shouldn't be a surprise, but that, right there, is one of the dumbest things i've ever read, in my entire life.

About as dumb as someone thinking that somebody will get sick because they oiled their board with a certain type of food based oil perhaps? Even though there are no factual reports or instances of such an instance happening?

I'm glad you got my point. Cheers!