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View Full Version : sg2 core, damascus san mai



Bill Burke
04-04-2013, 01:37 AM
wondering what the opinions here are of suminagashi steel with sg2 core. my reason for asking is that I have access to a limited supply of this steel. Over the week end I forged a 225mm gyoto out of it then hardend and tempered it to specs I found online. after finishing the knife I proceeded with my normal cutting test including cutting hemp rope. the rope I use is the hard dark brown stuff not the soft yellow kind. So with the edge thin enough that it would flex over my thumbnail and left with a somewhat course edge that would shave hair I started cutting.

The method uses only about two inches of the edge near the heal and a pull cut. if the edge starts to slide instead of cut or it I have to use more than about twenty pounds of force I consider the edge done and evaluate number of cuts and edge damage.

this knife easily made 200 slicing cuts with relative ease and no rolling or damge observible with naked eye. I continued to 325 cut where the edge seemed to be losing it's aggressive cutting ability. careful feeling of the edge with finger tips showed a slight rolling of the edge but no visible damage. three passes on a ceramic honing rod brought the edge back to hair popping sharp.

the stone I used for this test is a rather course norton fine india stone. I used this edge because I have many hours of experience rope cutting with it and felt it would let me better evaluate the steel than a finer edge where I don't have as much experience. the rope was cut on a piece of red fir 2x8 lumber that not particularly clean bu neither embeded with dirt a grit from laying around the shop.

I'll post pictures of the knife as soon as I get a handle on it.

Von blewitt
04-04-2013, 01:46 AM
Stainless cladding? Would you still get the hazy contrast at the lamination line?

El Pescador
04-04-2013, 01:57 AM
This sounds like a great great knife! I have an Asai and a Tanaka both withan SG2 core and the are surprisingly great edge holders. People bash the SG2 Shuns as being really brittle so the steel has a stigma but with the right heat treat this stuff is in a class by itself. I'd really like to hear more about you experiences with it, Bill.

Beohbe
04-04-2013, 03:30 AM
This sounds like a great great knife! I have an Asai and a Tanaka both withan SG2 core and the are surprisingly great edge holders. People bash the SG2 Shuns as being really brittle so the steel has a stigma but with the right heat treat this stuff is in a class by itself. I'd really like to hear more about you experiences with it, Bill.

Shun's vg10 is brittle, too, when compared to other vg10 (Hattori, Hiromoto). At least in my experience. They (Shun) could definitely do with some heat treating lessons, it seems.
As for a Bill Burke SG2 core, damascus san mai gyuto? Sounds sexy as hell to me. Can't wait for the forthcoming knife porn... :wink:

chuck239
04-04-2013, 03:51 AM
Bill,

How many cuts can your other steels do with your heat treatment? Like your 52100, how does that hold up in the same text?

-Chuck

Bill Burke
04-04-2013, 10:39 AM
Bill,

How many cuts can your other steels do with your heat treatment? Like your 52100, how does that hold up in the same text?

-Chuck

52100 is the best cutting steel on this very tough and abrasive rope that i have tested by a good margine

Lucretia
04-04-2013, 12:31 PM
I have some damascus clad SG2 knives (Ryusen & Tanaka) and I love them. Hold great edges for a long time and nice on the stones. I've seen a little microchipping on the Ryusen, but hubby uses them a lot and no telling what he's doing with them...I find if they get a pass over the ceramic rod on occasion there's very little chipping.

I like it enough that I've been eyeballing the ZK SG2 just for fun.

Mucho Bocho
04-04-2013, 03:01 PM
Bill, Ive got the 6" Chef's Kramer Shun Meiji series that was discontinued from Williams and Sonoma. I have takeda's, Moritakas and Dojo knives made out of Aogomi Super steel, Konosuke HD knives and the Kramer in SG2 is harder, stays sharper longer and has never chipped. The tip is still as pointy as the first day I got the knife. Your correct that just a brush up and down a good ceramic rod brings the edge back.

pitonboy
04-04-2013, 03:51 PM
I think if you have made a knife from it that is worthy of your efforts then we would be silly not to be interested

Lucretia
04-04-2013, 04:07 PM
Since this one is 225 and everyone else around here seems to prefer 240+ knives, I'd be happy to check it out for the next 10-12 years and let you know what I think. :D

El Pescador
04-04-2013, 09:37 PM
Get in line Lucretia!

Customfan
04-04-2013, 10:21 PM
Yeah.....

What are we talking about? :joec:

I am still coping with this idea.... But it might just work Bill!

Bill Burke
04-05-2013, 12:44 AM
Forged a 270mm gyoto from the same steel today. let yoy guys know if this one cuts like the first. these will be Wa handled knives. the 270 from today is 57mm at the heal and is a little thicker at the spine but with it being as tall as it is it should still be able to be relatively thin behind the edge.

Burl Source
04-06-2013, 04:48 PM
We need photos!

stereo.pete
04-06-2013, 04:58 PM
We need photos! x100,000,000

Bill Burke
04-21-2013, 01:46 PM
here are some photos guys. musk ox horn with silver ferral spacer and buffalo horn ferral. mortise and tenon construction on the handle.

http://www.fototime.com/449BC66271176A0/medium800.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/4B361B366C8E6BD/medium800.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/C253C8398003848/medium800.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/F866025A58CA4CB/medium800.jpg

Burl Source
04-21-2013, 01:55 PM
Beautiful Knife Bill!
Thanks for posting the photos.

marc4pt0
04-21-2013, 02:44 PM
Very stunning work! whoa, I can certainly see that beauty cutting out a nice spot in my kit!

cclin
04-21-2013, 04:47 PM
Bill Burke with wa-handle......that is my kind of knife!! Beautiful gyuto, I want one:tongue4:

sachem allison
04-21-2013, 04:54 PM
good lord!

G-rat
04-21-2013, 05:03 PM
good lord!

EXACTLY WHAT I SAID!! I also threw a YOWZA! in there too

Customfan
04-21-2013, 05:35 PM
You see? I told you it was a good idea.....

Nice work Bill! :doublethumbsup:

skiajl6297
04-21-2013, 05:43 PM
Just spectacular. I want this now.

stereo.pete
04-21-2013, 05:58 PM
I literally just pooped my pants, that was not what I was expecting, absolutely stunning work Mr. Burke!

don
04-21-2013, 06:13 PM
good lord!

+2!

Montrachet
04-21-2013, 06:32 PM
Ouffff! A new addiction already very bad for my wallet is born. Now I don't need a reason anymore to justify why I NEED new knives without risks to be killed by my wife... She saw... she understood . Sir, your crťations are really marvelous.

SpikeC
04-21-2013, 06:42 PM
Holy shirt!

markk
04-21-2013, 08:36 PM
impressive, most impressive

stereo.pete
04-21-2013, 10:02 PM
He doesn't post here often but when Mr. Burke decides to show off a knife, they are always phenomenal.

Von blewitt
04-21-2013, 11:21 PM
That looks awesome Bill! I love that handle!

chinacats
04-21-2013, 11:30 PM
WOW :bigeek:

ThEoRy
04-22-2013, 12:08 AM
I love R2/Sg2. Absolutely screaming sharp for just about ever. My Tanaka's are my longest lasting edges in my kit. Until I get my Marko or my Martell I have nothing that can even compare.

rdmalak
04-22-2013, 12:48 AM
I have to say that R2 is quit a bit different to hone but once it has an edge on it I agree with Theory.

Chef Niloc
04-22-2013, 11:05 AM
Awesome looking Knife Bill, nice work.

Shun S2's wouldn't be heat treated or made by Bill So I don't think there would be any issues similar to any night Shun makes. Don't think there could be any comparison at all Bill vs Shun LMFAO

Bill Burke
04-22-2013, 12:19 PM
First let say thank you all for the kind compliments on this knife. I have received several emails and Pm's about this knife and have to tell you all that I was able to procure this steel through the help and services of Dan at EE during his last trip to Japan and his connections there. He/we where able to get a small amount and may be able to get more. Since Daniel got the steel for me I agreed to sell these first knives made from this steel to him. All of you who inquired about this knife should contact him as they will be for sale on the EE website. Thanks all

PS there will be two of these knives the first a 225mm gyoto and the 255mm pictured.

PierreRodrigue
04-26-2013, 11:15 PM
Gorgeous Bill! Outstanding on all levels...

Bill Burke
04-27-2013, 12:49 AM
Thanks alot everyone for the kind words. So far this steel is working out very good. nice to forge and very good performance. I am getting some more of this and checking to see if I can get a steady supply of it.

mpukas
05-03-2013, 03:49 PM
Gorgeous knife, Bill! Love it!!!

Just curious Ė are they up on EE website yet? I canít seem to find your page there.

BTW, FWIW, my opinion of SG2 is changing. The only experience I have with it is in a Blazen 270 gyuto I got from EE. Itís a beautiful knife, and one of my favorites. However, Iím finding that the edge retention is not so good. I donítí really use the knife much, the GF uses it mainly. And she hardly uses it. She cuts turkey for the dog from whole roasted breast, she slicing a few veggies for her salads. Her knife skills are minimal, and she doesnít do any chopping, rock, etc. Only hammer grip rock-slicing. Maybe 6-7 times per week, only maybe 15-20 cuts at a time.

That knife will not stay sharp. Itís harder for me to sharpen it than the other knives I have, and I canít get it quite as sharp as white #2, AS or Yusukeís SS. But I can get it quite sharp. And it doesnítí take long before it looses that sharpness and settles into a fairly dull edge very quickly. It wonít shave, wonít push cut paper.

Just sharing my experiences. I really want to like SG2, but in my experiences itís not living up to my expectations. I hope you have better luck with it, as Iím sure you will. All the Best!!!

Bill Burke
05-04-2013, 01:02 AM
Gorgeous knife, Bill! Love it!!!

Just curious Ė are they up on EE website yet? I canít seem to find your page there.

BTW, FWIW, my opinion of SG2 is changing. The only experience I have with it is in a Blazen 270 gyuto I got from EE. Itís a beautiful knife, and one of my favorites. However, Iím finding that the edge retention is not so good. I donítí really use the knife much, the GF uses it mainly. And she hardly uses it. She cuts turkey for the dog from whole roasted breast, she slicing a few veggies for her salads. Her knife skills are minimal, and she doesnít do any chopping, rock, etc. Only hammer grip rock-slicing. Maybe 6-7 times per week, only maybe 15-20 cuts at a time.

That knife will not stay sharp. Itís harder for me to sharpen it than the other knives I have, and I canít get it quite as sharp as white #2, AS or Yusukeís SS. But I can get it quite sharp. And it doesnítí take long before it looses that sharpness and settles into a fairly dull edge very quickly. It wonít shave, wonít push cut paper.

Just sharing my experiences. I really want to like SG2, but in my experiences itís not living up to my expectations. I hope you have better luck with it, as Iím sure you will. All the Best!!!

M, these are not up on the EE site as yet. I will be a little bit surprised if they are not sold before they get posted. I plan on having a few of these at blade show the end of the month if anyone is going to be there.

Sorry to here of your problems with the blazen knife. I was able to get the heat treat info from the manufacture and then put my own pratices to work on it. This knife is extreamly easy to sharpen even at the high hardness that it is. I haven't tested it with a very fine polished edge on it just the course edge from an india stone. I have a few more that I'll do some more testing with and report here.

Apprentice
05-11-2013, 12:43 AM
When and where is the blade show?

Bill Burke
05-11-2013, 01:13 AM
When and where is the blade show?

Hey apprentice, I was down in your neck of the wood a couple of weeks ago. had a whole day with nothing to do.

Blade show is the largest knife show in the world. It is held in Atlanta Georgia, this year it is the 31st of May through June 2.

Nice avatar by the way

Apprentice
05-18-2013, 12:40 AM
You were?! Well lets not let that happen again. Next time you're down in this neck of the woods let me know! Next week I'll be heading up to Salmon for a memorial day campout. Too bad the knife show isn't closer I would love to attend. Thanks for the kind words on my avatar. It's my favorite knife. To be honest it might need a little TLC... how would you recommend cleaning or polishing it? I don't want to damage it but I want those temper lines to show up again.

Bill Burke
05-18-2013, 01:17 AM
Nice where ya going campin? some good friends of mine always have a memorial day camp out up past gibtown. Looks like I'll be back in your neck of the woods 7-20. if you send your knife to me after blade show I'll clean it and re-etch it for you.

kalaeb
05-18-2013, 03:41 AM
Nice where ya going campin? some good friends of mine always have a memorial day camp out up past gibtown. Looks like I'll be back in your neck of the woods 7-20. if you send your knife to me after blade show I'll clean it and re-etch it for you.

Apprentice, great thing about living along the Wasatch Front, equidistant between Bill Burke and Devin Thomas. Even very close to a bunch of non kitchen knife guys like Steve Johnson.

Apprentice
05-18-2013, 05:53 PM
Nice where ya going campin? some good friends of mine always have a memorial day camp out up past gibtown. Looks like I'll be back in your neck of the woods 7-20. if you send your knife to me after blade show I'll clean it and re-etch it for you.

Yah, that's me. This is Andrew. I'll be there in Lick Creek. Well, when you come down we should get together! I don't want to bother you with cleaning my knife for me, haha. The knife is amazing. I love it.

Apprentice
05-18-2013, 05:56 PM
Apprentice, great thing about living along the Wasatch Front, equidistant between Bill Burke and Devin Thomas. Even very close to a bunch of non kitchen knife guys like Steve Johnson.

Hi kalaeb. I'm pretty new to the scene. I am familiar with Bill because I grew up watching him build knives. I will have to look Devin and Steve up.

Bill Burke
05-18-2013, 10:13 PM
Yah, that's me. This is Andrew. I'll be there in Lick Creek. Well, when you come down we should get together! I don't want to bother you with cleaning my knife for me, haha. The knife is amazing. I love it.

Hey Andrew. So your all grown up and have a family Now I guess. Say hi to everyone for me. Is your uncle Bob going to be there?

Apprentice
05-19-2013, 12:00 AM
Hey Andrew. So your all grown up and have a family Now I guess. Say hi to everyone for me. Is your uncle Bob going to be there?

Well, I got married back in August. That's pretty exciting! Robert just finished dental school and yah, he should be there. I will tell everyone hi for you for sure. How are things in Boise with you and your fam?

Bill Burke
05-19-2013, 03:09 PM
Well, I got married back in August. That's pretty exciting! Robert just finished dental school and yah, he should be there. I will tell everyone hi for you for sure. How are things in Boise with you and your fam?

I knew he was finishing up this month some time but wasn't sure what day.

Everyone here is doing fine. Thanks for asking.