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Cookiemonster
04-16-2013, 09:50 PM
Could you help a confused Swede? There's just to many knifes out there and I'm a picky consumer.


What type of knife(s) do you think you want?

Stainless or semi-stainless 240mm Gyuto with a western handle.


Why is it being purchased? What, if anything, are you replacing?

I have an old 210mm Tojiro Gyuto (I've had it since 2003, still works great) as my main knife, I want something bigger and nicer.


What do you like and dislike about these qualities of your knives already?
Aesthetics - Minimalistic - nothing flashy. Maybe something small that could set it apart.
Edge Quality/Retention - Important, but not uber-important.
Ease of Use - I want a stainless / semi-stainless.
Comfort - This one is important, I cook every day. I want it to be as light as possible without being to thin and flexible (no laser, something in between).


What grip do you use?

Pinch-grip


What kind of cutting motion do you use?

Push-cut


Where do you store them?

Drawer with special knife "block"


What kind of cutting board(s) do you use?

Wooden end-grain


For edge maintenance, do you use a strop, honing rod, pull through/other, or nothing?
Have they ever been sharpened?

I have 500, 1000 and 5000 grit Japanese stones to maintain and sharpen my own and my families/friends knifes :)


What is your budget?

$200-300

What do you cook and how often?

Everything, I cook from a different 'cuisine' every week. One week we have only Japanese, next week Italian, than Polish, French, Mexican, German etc etc etc. Fish (but I have Victorinox fillet knife), meat (I have Victorinox boning knife), lots of veggies'. I don't want a beater knife, I know how to handle knifes and I have backup Victorinox 220mm chefs knife for pumpkins and such.

Special requests(Country of origin/type of wood/etc)?
It doesn't really matter. Wood, micarta or compressed wood - as long as it doesn't look cheap and is comfortable.
I would like a flatter profile ('a la' Sabatier) and not to high at the heel.



I've looked at:

Akifusa
Kikuichi TKC (CarboNext looks to cheap, even if it's almost the same knife)
Yoshikane SKD
Hattori Forum
Sakai Takayuki Grand Chef
Masamoto VG - just not sure about the handle material since they changed "from Pakkawood to a resin handle called "Duracon", which they explain, is a dishwasher safe, durable and anti-bacteria" (JCK website) - who would put their Masamoto in the diswasher anyway :scared4:

I forgot some other knifes I've looked at, but maybe you can comment on the knifes I've listed and suggest some other knifes.

Pensacola Tiger
04-16-2013, 10:29 PM
I have an Akifusa that was thinned and etched by the previous owner and it is a great performing knife. The SRS-15 PM core holds an edge for a ridiculously long time. I'm not sure a new one would have this level of performance OOTB, so if you can't or don't care to thin it, give it a pass.

I had a Kikuichi TKC, and liked it well enough, but sold it. Overpriced for what it is, but not a bad knife.

I have a Yoshikane SKD with a custom handle by Daniel O'Malley. It is significantly heavier than other 240's, which you've mentioned as a show stopper. I'd have to say that at $310, it's overpriced, but it is a pretty good performer OOTB.

My Hattori FH is vacationing in Canada at the moment. Arguably the best handle on a production knife. Some don't care for the steel (VG-10), but I've never had any issues. Of the knives you mention, it's the one I'd recommend.

As far as other knives, take a look at the Gesshin Ginga at JKI. http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/kitchen-knives/gesshin-ginga/gesshin-ginga-240mm-stainless-gyuto.html#

Rick

Oh, and welcome to KKF!

bikehunter
04-16-2013, 10:37 PM
Welcome to the forums. I can only comment on Yoshikane SKD . I have 240 hammered, with burnt chestnut handle (which really does offer secure grip in wet conditions). I like this knife...a lot. Mine has been thinned to the max (be aware, the hammered line NEEDS thinning and the SKD tool steel requires quite a lot of time and effort to thin...I bought it used, with thinning already accomplished) and takes a terrific, long lasting edge. Oh, and it is not a light weight by any stretch of the imagination. If you're looking for a laser, this ain't it. I'll let others with more knowledge take over from here.

cclin
04-16-2013, 10:55 PM
western handle & stainless/semi-stainless reallly limited choice of good knives!! do you'll consider wa-handle or stainless cladding with carbon core(san-mai blade)??

bikehunter
04-16-2013, 11:15 PM
Sorry, I only read the list of knives you might have interest in. Missed that you're looking for yo handle.

keithsaltydog
04-17-2013, 12:14 AM
Since you have your Victorinox backups,I would give the Gesshin Ginga consideration,a very fine Stain Resistant Gyuto in your price range.

panda
04-17-2013, 01:44 AM
light western stainless - masahiro mv-h (http://www.amazon.com/Masahiro-14912-MVH-Chefs-Knife/dp/B000ZZXI7W).
i have a grand chef and it flexes.
masamoto vg is my favorite, but it is heavy.

Cookiemonster
04-17-2013, 05:31 AM
I have an Akifusa that was thinned and etched by the previous owner and it is a great performing knife. The SRS-15 PM core holds an edge for a ridiculously long time. I'm not sure a new one would have this level of performance OOTB, so if you can't or don't care to thin it, give it a pass.

I had a Kikuichi TKC, and liked it well enough, but sold it. Overpriced for what it is, but not a bad knife.

I have a Yoshikane SKD with a custom handle by Daniel O'Malley. It is significantly heavier than other 240's, which you've mentioned as a show stopper. I'd have to say that at $310, it's overpriced, but it is a pretty good performer OOTB.

My Hattori FH is vacationing in Canada at the moment. Arguably the best handle on a production knife. Some don't care for the steel (VG-10), but I've never had any issues. Of the knives you mention, it's the one I'd recommend.

As far as other knives, take a look at the Gesshin Ginga at JKI. http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/kitchen-knives/gesshin-ginga/gesshin-ginga-240mm-stainless-gyuto.html#

Rick

Oh, and welcome to KKF!

Thx! For me it leans towards the Akifusa, I could probably thin it out - I've owned my stones for a while and sharpened many knifes with more than adequate result.
The Hattori looks very nice, but there's just a huge increase in weight between the 210 and the 240 - a much larger gap the the majority of knifes I've looked at. I would have no problem with the VG10 (as long as it isn't to chippy').


Welcome to the forums. I can only comment on Yoshikane SKD . I have 240 hammered, with burnt chestnut handle (which really does offer secure grip in wet conditions). I like this knife...a lot. Mine has been thinned to the max (be aware, the hammered line NEEDS thinning and the SKD tool steel requires quite a lot of time and effort to thin...I bought it used, with thinning already accomplished) and takes a terrific, long lasting edge. Oh, and it is not a light weight by any stretch of the imagination. If you're looking for a laser, this ain't it. I'll let others with more knowledge take over from here.

Alright, I think I'll pass than.


western handle & stainless/semi-stainless reallly limited choice of good knives!! do you'll consider wa-handle or stainless cladding with carbon core(san-mai blade)??

Not for this one. I will later on buy a 210 with a wa-handle (and even later a 240 with a wa handle). But I want this one to be with a western handle and 100% stainless/semi-stainless. Thing is, even if I know how to take care of knives, I don't want to stress and sometimes leave it after cutting without immediately washing it of. From what I've read, the carbon core might get dull if not washed straight after use.


Since you have your Victorinox backups,I would give the Gesshin Ginga consideration,a very fine Stain Resistant Gyuto in your price range.

Yes, I've also looked at those. I'll read up them - ty.


light western stainless - masahiro mv-h (http://www.amazon.com/Masahiro-14912-MVH-Chefs-Knife/dp/B000ZZXI7W).
i have a grand chef and it flexes.
masamoto vg is my favorite, but it is heavy.

Masahiro was also on my list, just forgot about it.

jimbob
04-17-2013, 05:51 AM
As far as the Hattoris weight goes, it is perfectly balanced at the heel for pinch grip and it hasn't been a problem for me. Great profile and as mentioned, nice handle. The edge for me holds up a few weeks of daily home (depending on produce cut) use and then still only requires a light pass on the stones. As far as ive experienced and read, the steel seems to be better heat treated than other vg-10's. Would be my vote!

ChiliPepper
04-17-2013, 07:24 AM
I own a Hattori HD and can confirm that Hattori's VG10 has no chipping issues worth of notice. very good knife and I suppose the Forum line will be even better. I also have a Yoshi SKD and frankly love the edge retention: the thing stays sharp forever and, despite its bulkiness, has excellent geometry and is very flat behind the edge. I don't fully understand bikehunters mention of thinning it as it starts quite thick at the spine but immediately transforms in a unique, uninterrupted 50/50 wedge that will guarantee a thin edge for a long time. But then I own a petty, maybe the gyuto is different. How about a CarboNext with a rehadle work? You'd get an excellent blade and solve the cheapo look, prob without spending more than the other choices you mentioned. Enjoy the research and whatever you'll end up buying! :)

ChiliPepper
04-17-2013, 07:30 AM
And the US Post be forever damned with its international shipping fees, otherwise I'd have a Ginga at the moment :curse:

Cookiemonster
04-17-2013, 07:52 AM
And the US Post be forever damned with its international shipping fees, otherwise I'd have a Ginga at the moment :curse:

:laugh:

My girlfriend have family in NY, they will help me out with shipping - also to avoid tax/customs etc, send it as a 'gift'. I'm not cheap, but I feel we already pay to much taxes in Sweden - unfortunately we're not the welfare state we used to be so I don't really know where the money goes, to 'save' the banks I presume :dontknow:

Anyway, the Gesshin gets a lot of love - flavor of the year knife? Anybody have experience with Gesshin Kagero 240mm btw?

As it looks now, I can't decide between Akifusa and the Hattori. Edge retention vs. fantastic F&F / design (the geometry looks very close, nice long flat spot and not to wide blade on both).

daddy yo yo
04-17-2013, 08:16 AM
having no further experience with an akifusa than holding it in my hands, i would definitely go for the hattori FH (previously owned a 210 gyuto which i sold because i got myself a KD)! F&F is so much better, and the handle is just fabulous. the hattori FH is a great knife with excellent F&F. i didn't like F&F on the akifusa though, and the handle gets thinner towards the end which i didn't like either... VG10 (hattori) should also be easier to maintain than PM (akifusa).

Cookiemonster
04-17-2013, 08:33 AM
Many speak well about the Hattori FH, I'm also starting to think it will be my best bet.
Next 'problem' will be to decide between micart and cocobolo handle. The cocobolo is sold out atm :(

daddy yo yo
04-17-2013, 08:51 AM
i had the micarta handle and i liked it very much! there's also the micarta handle on my KD... i start loving wooden handles as well but i guess that a micarta handle really is a good choice, doesn't shrink or crack, and hygiene factors are a big pro for micarta as well... not to mention that ebony looks very nice too! :lol2:

keithsaltydog
04-17-2013, 12:43 PM
Those handles on the Hattori look comfortable,if you like the cocobolo,wonder how long the wait.

mhlee
04-17-2013, 01:28 PM
:laugh:

My girlfriend have family in NY, they will help me out with shipping - also to avoid tax/customs etc, send it as a 'gift'. I'm not cheap, but I feel we already pay to much taxes in Sweden - unfortunately we're not the welfare state we used to be so I don't really know where the money goes, to 'save' the banks I presume :dontknow:

Anyway, the Gesshin gets a lot of love - flavor of the year knife? Anybody have experience with Gesshin Kagero 240mm btw?

As it looks now, I can't decide between Akifusa and the Hattori. Edge retention vs. fantastic F&F / design (the geometry looks very close, nice long flat spot and not to wide blade on both).

I've used the 210 Kagero. It's a really nice knife. It's a touch thicker than the Ginga (I have the Ginga White #2 Wa Handle Gyuto), but had good edge retention the couple of weeks that I used it (and better compared to my Ginga in retrospect), is very stiff (PM steel) and noticeably more "dense" than the Ginga, but still rather light and nimble, and is a good cutter (I would rate the Ginga a better cutter which I would attribute to it's overall thinness and thinness behind the edge, and, for me, better overall balance) with a touch better food release than the Ginga. It doesn't have a lot of belly and is well suited for push cutting. The handle is not bulky - it's rather streamlined which I like - and has very good fit and finish. The more I think of it, the feel of the knife in a pinch grip is likely closer to a Sabatier than a regular western handled knife because it's not as bulky or heavy right at the bolster. The handle with seemed to be a touch thinner than most western knives.

I did not sharpen it so I cannot attest to how it feels on stones, but if you give Jon a call (since you're international, you could call him via Skype), I"m sure he'd be glad to help you and tell you more about the differences between the Kagero and Ginga.

FWIW - I didn't buy the Kagero because I wanted a carbon steel wa handled knife.

Cookiemonster
04-17-2013, 04:07 PM
Thanks everybody. Even though the Gesshin Ginga is probably a better knife, exactly what I'm looking for actually, I just feel the Hattori speaks to me :)
Soon time to buy a stainless 150 petty and 210 carbon gyuto with wa handles. Just have to do some research first + my girlfriend starts to question my kitchen budget, we just bought 2 new Staub casseroles - I have to lay low for a while :lol2:

cclin
04-17-2013, 04:29 PM
Thanks everybody. Even though the Gesshin Ginga is probably a better knife, exactly what I'm looking for actually, I just feel the Hattori speaks to me :)
Soon time to buy a stainless 150 petty and 210 carbon gyuto with wa handles. Just have to do some research first + my girlfriend starts to question my kitchen budget, we just bought 2 new Staub casseroles - I have to lay low for a while :lol2:

if you're not in hurry, wait for Pierre Rodrigue's western handle mid-tech gyuto!!