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View Full Version : Kikuichi Elite Sujihiki Question From a Lefty



DitmasPork
04-23-2013, 08:39 AM
Hi. I'm looking to purchase a western carbon sujihiki for under $200 and have been looking at the Kikuichi Elite Carbon 270. Since I'm a lefty—is the blade very asymmetrical [convex?] to the point that it wouldn't be a good choice even if I moved the edge to left-handed? My sharpening skills are not great—but decent.

Also, I've read many positive reviews on the knife in the past—but not a lot of them recently, just wondering why.

Any insight on the Kikuichi suji or other knife suggestions for this lefty would be greatly appreciated.

K-Fed
04-23-2013, 08:49 AM
Yes. The one that I had was nearly completly ground for a righty. That being said, as a general purpose slicer, not using it for sashimi or anything it worked just fine for me and I'm a lefty.

DitmasPork
04-23-2013, 10:34 AM
Yes. The one that I had was nearly completly ground for a righty. That being said, as a general purpose slicer, not using it for sashimi or anything it worked just fine for me and I'm a lefty.

It's a knife that I would be using for mainly fish, primarily sashimi, and cubing tuna for 'Poke' [Hawaiian raw fish salad]—I'm originally from Hawaii.

Are there a lot of other recommended carbon sujis in the quality/price range as the Kikuichi Elite that don't have as much as a right-hand bias?

Benuser
04-23-2013, 12:52 PM
K-Sabatier and Robert Herder, Solingen.

Miles
04-23-2013, 10:31 PM
I've had a fair bit of experience with helping out a left handed chef tweak his blades. It's a tricky bit. Even though they aren't single bevel blades, a lot of the Japanese "western style" knives still follow the traditional Japanese style of the left side being flat, 90 degrees to the spine and the right side is the side with the bevel that tapers to the edge. I happen to like this a lot, but I'm a right handed person, so it's not exactly an issue. What I've noted is that if you find a Japanese blade which has a V grind or "Western style" grind where both sides of the blade are tapered to the edge, you'll probably be happier. There's a certain ahem, knife seller, who contracts with a Mass. based knife company to make Japanese inspired blades. These have a V-grind. My friend has been very happy with them, as he doesn't have to do anything to the knives. He can use them out of the box without any modifications. I have a very strong preference for the flat left side, so I don't really care for them, but he's found a solution which doesn't require a lot of modification or the cost of a special order lefty blade. Through my experience with him, I've observed that the beefier the Japanese knife, the more issues he would have, even if I applied a bevel to the left side of the blade. The lasers were far less problematic. He'd have a little trouble here and there, but putting a little bit of a relief bevel on the left side seemed to dramatically improve the performance for him and he'd be quite happy with the performance until he'd sharpen away enough of the blade to make it a bit thick behind the edge. Stick to thinner blades and/or blades with thin profiles behind the edge and you'll probably be pretty happy. Think Carter, any of the lasers, Blazen, etc.

Benuser
04-23-2013, 11:04 PM
This coincides with my experience with more neutral European blades, who are not so much symmetric, but have the lower part of the left face convexed as well.

wenus2
04-24-2013, 06:44 AM
Check this out, might be what you are looking for:
http://www.knifemerchant.com/product.asp?productID=7692

DitmasPork
04-24-2013, 08:48 AM
Check this out, might be what you are looking for:
http://www.knifemerchant.com/product.asp?productID=7692

I'd actually gone to that link a few days ago—but for some reason there are not a lot of reviews out there on the Masahiro Carbons. Have you ever used one? I also don't feel great on paying such a premium [$216 lefty vs $172 for righty] for a left-handed knife. For the lefty price, I could just save up $40 more and get a Konosuke White #2 Sujihiki—with a wa handle. Which maybe I should consider—never used a wa knife, perhaps it's time to jump into the wa pond.

Miles
04-24-2013, 10:54 AM
The Masahiros are solid. Good steel. They aren't flashy, but definitely get the job done. They're a bit of a sleeper brand around here. Don't get a lot of talk but those who have them like them. Unfortunately, there's always a bit of a price premium for the lefty knives. The premium on the Masahiros isn't too bad. Others will charge you and will regrind the edge to be lefty friendly, but it's still a righty friendly blade shape. The only other option is what you've hit upon, buy a righty and tweak until you're happy. The Konos are thin, so this shouldn't be a big issue, but the Masahiro will be set up from the start to work best for you, so you'll need to decide if this is worth the premium.

K-Fed
04-24-2013, 11:07 AM
The Masahiros are solid. Good steel. They aren't flashy, but definitely get the job done. They're a bit of a sleeper brand around here. Don't get a lot of talk but those who have them like them. Unfortunately, there's always a bit of a price premium for the lefty knives. The premium on the Masahiros isn't too bad. Others will charge you and will regrind the edge to be lefty friendly, but it's still a righty friendly blade shape. The only other option is what you've hit upon, buy a righty and tweak until you're happy. The Konos are thin, so this shouldn't be a big issue, but the Masahiro will be set up from the start to work best for you, so you'll need to decide if this is worth the premium.
+1 on the masahiros. I always forget about them even though I had the virgin carbon gyuto and loved it. The steel is good, not very reactive, and they're well made. I gave it away to a co worker as a house warming gift so I still get to see her from time to time =)

keithsaltydog
04-24-2013, 01:26 PM
It's a knife that I would be using for mainly fish, primarily sashimi, and cubing tuna for 'Poke' [Hawaiian raw fish salad]—I'm originally from Hawaii.

Are there a lot of other recommended carbon sujis in the quality/price range as the Kikuichi Elite that don't have as much as a right-hand bias?

Long time ago I used Masamoto carbon Sugi for sashimi,till I got my first quality Yanagiba,which started my lust for Japan Single Bevels.

wenus2
04-24-2013, 03:48 PM
Masahiro is a quality knife, we try not to suggest $200 junk to people, even lefties :razz:

How about a Misono Dragon? Special order one ground full lefty for 15% premium, would be about 250 to your door.
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/SwedenSteelSeries.html#SwedenSteel

It would seem you can special order a full lefty Fujiwara FKH as well, that should be around $100.
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/FKHSeries.html#FKH

Benuser
04-24-2013, 05:00 PM
Are you sure these JCKs aren't the usual blades with just a more neutral edge by JCK's sharpener?
That would make a lot of difference with a special order lefty, with a convex left face and a flat right one.

wenus2
04-24-2013, 05:08 PM
Are you sure these JCKs aren't the usual blades with just a more neutral edge by JCK's sharpener?
That would make a lot of difference with a special order lefty, with a convex left face and a flat right one.

Yes I'm sure, hence my wording. Ground lefty, not bevel-adjusted. Special order of course.

Benuser
04-24-2013, 05:46 PM
Yes I'm sure, hence my wording. Ground lefty, not bevel-adjusted. Special order of course.
Thanks for clarifying, Wenus2.

wenus2
04-24-2013, 06:09 PM
I knew I read it somewhere, just couldn't find it at last post.
This should provide some confidence:
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/InformationForLeftHander.html

kpeddie2010
04-25-2013, 01:18 AM
I've had great experiences with masa hires and as a fellow 808 er I suggest a konosuke suji. Just remember if u are comfortable with Sufis they are well rounded knives which u can use not only for slicing. Fujiwara suji are great and cheap. I liked my Fujiwara more than my kikuichi suji

pete84
04-27-2013, 02:16 PM
Had a kikuichi elite 270 suji and used it for fish, cubing for poke/tartar etc does the job, but a kono suji...yummy

Mine was very right hand biased in grind. Not good for lefties.

labor of love
04-27-2013, 02:53 PM
JCK offers lefty versions of many of the lines they carry. I'm pretty sure you could find something you like there under $200 that you might like. Carbonext, Hiromoto, or something similar in price.

Chefdog
04-27-2013, 08:47 PM
For a little extra cash, I'd recommend the Hiromoto suji. Mine was damn near completely 50/50 when I got it, and the AS really is outstanding for slicing IMO. Whether a crusty roast, or a raw pork loin, the steel just bites and slices really well.

rdpx
04-28-2013, 01:14 PM
For a little extra cash, I'd recommend the Hiromoto suji. Mine was damn near completely 50/50 when I got it, and the AS really is outstanding for slicing IMO. Whether a crusty roast, or a raw pork loin, the steel just bites and slices really well.

Sujihikis are no longer showing at all on the JCK website Hiromoto AS page...

Odd, as normally you see "SOLD OUT" but they are just GONE.

Pensacola Tiger
04-28-2013, 01:16 PM
Sujihikis are no longer showing at all on the JCK website Hiromoto AS page...

Odd, as normally you see "SOLD OUT" but they are just GONE.

IIRC, they are no longer in production, just like the wa-handled gyuto and sujihiki, thus there is no reason to list a knife that will never be available.

rdpx
04-28-2013, 01:27 PM
IIRC, they are no longer in production

The sujihikis, or the entire range?

Pensacola Tiger
04-28-2013, 01:32 PM
The sujihikis, or the entire range?

Sorry I wasn't clear. The sujihikis, AFAIK.

Chefdog
04-28-2013, 03:50 PM
Sorry I wasn't clear. The sujihikis, AFAIK.

Bummer. It was only a few days ago last time I saw them up at JCK.

rdpx
04-29-2013, 11:14 AM
Bummer. It was only a few days ago last time I saw them up at JCK.


Yeah I hear that. I am considering buying a sujihiki and am sure they were up last week.... Was leaning towards an AS!

This just in from Koki:-


Thank you very much for your new inquiry and interest.

We apologize for the availability of Hiromoto Aogami Super TJ-90AS Sujihiki 270mm.

Maker Hiromoto used to make Sujihiki knives in Aogami Super Series. But they already discontinued the Sujihiki items and Sujihiki items got completely sold out and out of stock before.

Mr. Nagao (President of Hiromoto company) is 75 years old. He is going to get retired in near future. Maker Hiromoto is already discontinuing some models (such as TJ-50AS Petty 120mm, TJ-40AS Santoku160mm. Once current inventory of TJ-50AS will be out of stock, this item will be completely discontinued. TJ-40AS Santoku 160mm already got completely out of stock.

We apologize again for the availability and situation of Hiromoto Aogami Super Sujihiki knives.

If you are looking for good carbon steel blade of Sujihiki knife, we can also recommend below items.

KAGAYAKI CarboNext Sujihiki knives at http://japanesechefsknife.com/KAGAYAKICarboNextSeries.html#CarboNextSeries

Misono Sweden Steel Series Sujihiki knives at http://japanesechefsknife.com/SwedenSteelSeries.html#SwedenSteel


We hope you will find your favorite one and when you will have any questions, please let us know and help.

Thank you very much again for your new inquiry and interest.

Best Regards

Koki Iwahara
JapaneseChefsKnife.Com

Pensacola Tiger
04-29-2013, 11:22 AM
Yeah I hear that. I am considering buying a sujihiki and am sure they were up last week.... Was leaning towards an AS!

This just in from Koki:-


Thank you very much for your new inquiry and interest.

We apologize for the availability of Hiromoto Aogami Super TJ-90AS Sujihiki 270mm.

Maker Hiromoto used to make Sujihiki knives in Aogami Super Series. But they already discontinued the Sujihiki items and Sujihiki items got completely sold out and out of stock before.

Mr. Nagao (President of Hiromoto company) is 75 years old. He is going to get retired in near future. Maker Hiromoto is already discontinuing some models (such as TJ-50AS Petty 120mm, TJ-40AS Santoku160mm. Once current inventory of TJ-50AS will be out of stock, this item will be completely discontinued. TJ-40AS Santoku 160mm already got completely out of stock.

We apologize again for the availability and situation of Hiromoto Aogami Super Sujihiki knives.

If you are looking for good carbon steel blade of Sujihiki knife, we can also recommend below items.

KAGAYAKI CarboNext Sujihiki knives at http://japanesechefsknife.com/KAGAYAKICarboNextSeries.html#CarboNextSeries

Misono Sweden Steel Series Sujihiki knives at http://japanesechefsknife.com/SwedenSteelSeries.html#SwedenSteel


We hope you will find your favorite one and when you will have any questions, please let us know and help.

Thank you very much again for your new inquiry and interest.

Best Regards

Koki Iwahara
JapaneseChefsKnife.Com

Okay, so it's the entire range. Get 'em while you can, I guess.

rdpx
04-29-2013, 11:30 AM
Sounds like they are still making the gyutos.... But the 120 petty is definitely on teh way out
Okay, so it's the entire range. Get 'em while you can, I guess.

DitmasPork
04-30-2013, 08:59 AM
Sorry for the delayed response, traveled to Georgia for business—and getting my fill of shrimp n grits. Lots of good info posted about sujis for this here lefty to ponder. During my time away from the computer I noticed that a Masamoto HC suji was up on B/S/T, looked like a good price on that one. At this point I'm kind of leaning towards the lefty Masahiro—despite the lefty premium on it.
Also, too bad about the Hiro AS being discontinued—such a cool looking blade.

DitmasPork
06-23-2013, 11:18 PM
After much hemming and hawing I decided to get the lefty Masahiro 270 carbon sujihiki—which arrived a couple of days ago. I've not had a chance to put it to good use, but really like the feel of it. It's a tad heavier [not a problem] than I expected, very solid. Dying to buy a chunk of tuna! Cheers to all of the advice from all of you. I've attempted to attach a photo—hope this works.

http://i1351.photobucket.com/albums/p796/DitmasPork/photo3_zps97469e2e.jpg

chinacats
06-24-2013, 02:04 AM
Sweet! Please report back with how you like it.

K-Fed
06-24-2013, 09:32 PM
After much hemming and hawing I decided to get the lefty Masahiro 270 carbon sujihiki—which arrived a couple of days ago. I've not had a chance to put it to good use, but really like the feel of it. It's a tad heavier [not a problem] than I expected, very solid. Dying to buy a chunk of tuna! Cheers to all of the advice from all of you. I've attempted to attach a photo—hope this works.

http://i1351.photobucket.com/albums/p796/DitmasPork/photo3_zps97469e2e.jpg

Sweet. I really dig the steel in the masa virgin carbon line. Reminds me a lot of the steel in the misono Swedish line. Id be willing to bet that most of the weightiness that you're feeling is in the handle. Masahiro VC knives have a quite substancial handle which I love.

labor of love
06-24-2013, 09:35 PM
heavy handled sujis rule. nice looking knife. we dont hear enough about masahiro around here.

K-Fed
06-24-2013, 09:46 PM
It is really a fantastic knife. Not very reactive at all, takes a wicked edge and holds it pretty damn well. The gyutos have the masamoto profile but are a bit thinner. They are a no frills workhorse of a knife with the biggest western handles that I've encountered. If you have larger hands and want a good bang for the buck carbon knife I would recommend a masahiro VC hands down.

NO ChoP!
06-24-2013, 09:49 PM
I recall my Kikuichi Elite suji handle feeling rather small....

Nice knife!

DitmasPork
06-26-2013, 08:34 AM
Very happy with it, f&f good, and yes handle heavy [k-fed]. Dig the substantial feel/weight of the knife—I do have another older sujihiki that is Molybdenum, very light, a little too much so for my taste. My stainless one was fine, but there is something magic about carbon for me. I don't have particularly large hands, but the somewhat large and squarish handles are not a problem for me. I do dream about someday getting high end American made knives [Devin, Marko, Carter, etc.]—but for now they are out of my price range. My Masahiro is a great for now—will likely post some pics of my knife in action!

Benuser
06-26-2013, 09:11 AM
How about the balance with the Masahiros? Still in front of the bolster despite of the large handle, I hope?

panda
06-30-2013, 02:11 AM
how do all of these suji's compare, like what sets them apart from each other? kikuichi elite, carbonext, misono swedish, masamoto vc, etc? i'm probably going to go with the hiromoto g3 210 to use as a line knife (as its really one of only a few choices at that short length), but would be good knowledge to have the comparisons for if i ever do decide to get a 270 suji.

Miles
06-30-2013, 04:18 PM
Glad to hear the new suji is working out for you. Masahiro is definitely a sleeper, but shouldn't be overlooked.