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JPizzzle
04-24-2013, 11:29 PM
Hey all,
So I've always wanted to try this device out. If anyone wants to let one go (any model-but hopefully with plenty of stones) at a fair price, please shoot me a message.

Best,

JP

Benuser
04-24-2013, 11:36 PM
Are you sure? Sharpening is not so much about creating an edge, it's more about restoring geometry.

Pensacola Tiger
04-24-2013, 11:48 PM
JP, if you want to try one out, I'll lend you mine, as it is just gathering dust. You have to promise you won't use it on your new Rodrigue, though.

I have a full set of Chocera stones (400 through 10K) for it.

Rick

kiefer
04-24-2013, 11:53 PM
PM sent

JPizzzle
04-24-2013, 11:53 PM
Thanks for the offer Rick, I'll PM you.

Hmm, maybe I should research this thing more...I suck at sharpening and now that I have a more high end knife coming in, I figured that this may be a safer way to get an edge back without the risks of scratching. I'll read up on this more-thx

ThEoRy
04-24-2013, 11:55 PM
14835

JPizzzle
04-24-2013, 11:58 PM
Lol-ok let's put this WTB on hold until I research this thing more. I may have jumped ahead of myself in only reading a few reviews.

Thanks though :)

Mrmnms
04-24-2013, 11:59 PM
If Rick is offering to loan you one with a set of Choseras , what do you have to lose. You should at least try it out. They are precise.

cclin
04-24-2013, 11:59 PM
you won't use it on your new Rodrigue, though.

+1 :scared4:

JPizzzle
04-25-2013, 12:00 AM
If Rick is offering to loan you one with a set of Choseras , what do you have to lose. You should at least try it out. They are precise.

Nothing to lose, it's very kind of him

JohnnyChance
04-25-2013, 12:09 AM
Just tape the blade otherwise you will get plenty of scratches on it using the EP.

Justin0505
04-25-2013, 12:12 AM
Thanks for the offer Rick, I'll PM you.

Hmm, maybe I should research this thing more...I suck at sharpening and now that I have a more high end knife coming in, I figured that this may be a safer way to get an edge back without the risks of scratching. I'll read up on this more-tux

I've always said that the edge pro was a great teaching tool for me. It helped to understand angles/ compound angles , burr formation and reduction, grip progression, what works on one blade better than on another and why etc, all in a very scientific way that eliminated more of the "me factor" from the equation vs sharpening by hand. I had been sharpening by hand since before I could ride a bike, so I wasn't bad to begin with, but what I learned with the EP made me a much better free-hand sharpener. It was also a big confidence booster that gave the courage to experiment more and on some pretty intimidatingly expensive knives. I really don't use it much anymore, but I would also never sell it.

Still, if you have the chance to try one out for free, then go for it!

JPizzzle
04-25-2013, 01:04 AM
After doing some research and some advice from great members, I think I will spend some more time on my free hand skills :)

The Rodrigue won't need a new edge for a while, so if my skills/confidence aren't up to par by then, Dave will have a package in the mail for sharpening hah

Troy G
04-25-2013, 03:22 PM
HIJACK- Can someone point me towards some good information on free hand versus edge pro?

Benuser
04-25-2013, 03:51 PM
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/5656-Asymmetry--The-REAL-DEAL

Mrmnms
04-25-2013, 11:35 PM
From an old post somewhere


Freehand? Jig?
For me the answer is YES!
I've used both methods for probably over 15 years, and they each have a place. I just added the EP, and that has to be one of the most versitile and "bang for the $$" jigs around. I find it very useful for re-setting bevels and angles - correcting mistakes of the past and setting a path for the future. I've also used it side by side with freehand. And I find it really convenient for throwing a great edge on either beaters or daily users when I don't really have the time to concentrate on freehand (which in my house is most of the time) Lately, I've had to tame my OCD for all things sharpening, tame my OCD for knife lust, and instead try to put a meal on the table to enjoy with the wife and kids before one has to go sports practice, another to a friends house and the third wants to sit and watch tv with me.

IMHO, the EP is a great solution for someone new to sharpening, new to J-knives or someone who thinks that steel rod thingy or a chefs choice are sharpening options.

While I truely prefer to freehand, my freehand experience makes me appreciate and do a better job using the EP...and the EP improves and makes me do a better job freehanding.

I like Marko's analogy. When I first started to cook, I followed a recipe for french toast. No I don't. But if I'm cooking something new, say a tagine or Indian, I follow a recipe first.

So I'll 2nd that notion but then add some of my thoughts and experiences too.

One of the biggest misconceptions that I feel people have about the EP is that there is a very short learning curve and very little skill or understanding involved in using it to it's full potential. I feel that there is less of a learning curve / motor skill development required with the EP than freehand and that you can be a "proficient novice" with the EP faster than you can be freehand. However, mastering the EP takes time and the same understanding of the mechanics of sharpening, steel, edge performance, and cutting application.

I had a pretty solid background in freehand sharpening and sharpening theory when I bought my EP so it was more a matter of learning the mechanics of the system than learning how to sharpen. My first day on the EP I put the sharpest, best edge on a knife that I had on any other up to that point in my life. However, almost 3 years later, I feel that I am still improving both my EP and my freehand skills.

For me the EP is BOTH
1) a "quick and easy edge-production system": the one I reach for when I've got a pile of junky, abused friends' knives to sharpen
and
2) a "scientific tool of edge geekdome": the one that I reach for when learning a new steel or knife, diagnosing and repairing a problem, or just really nerding out with thinning behind the edge, compound bevels, or maximum attainable sharpness.

I've also been playing around with some EP tricks. One is creating a changing or "rolling" bevel where the angle is more obtuse near the heel and more acute near the tip for a knife where the tip is used for detail work or vica versa where the belly is used for rocking. It's a bit hard to describe this method without pictures, video, or and understanding of how the EP system works, but to put it simply the edge angle on the EP is dependent both on the height of the pivot point of the moving stone arm as well as the distance of the edge from the table so by either hanging part of the blade off of the support table and / or adjusting the angle of the blade in relation to the arc of the stone arm.


However, once I've figured out the best combination of angles, convexity, and polish, I do most of my edge maintenance freehand with strops, hones, and stones. I recently purchased my first j-nat from Jon at JKI and I couldn't be happier with it. It's fantastic for finishing, smoothing out a compound bevel or quickly touching up an edge that's just past where a hone or strop can bring it back to 100%. Freehand sharpening might still be my favorite, but I also enjoy the EP. I have the "Pro" version which is largely hand built and assembled. There is an amazing about of care, thought and, pride that went into it's design and build. F&F is very precise and it feels like using an old, pre-CNC, machinists' tool.

If I had to make an analogy between EP and freehand I would compare swimming to rowing or running to riding a bike.

Justin0505
04-26-2013, 01:17 PM
From an old post somewhere


Freehand? Jig?
For me the answer is YES!
I've used both methods for probably over 15 years, and they each have a place. I just added the EP, and that has to be one of the most versitile and "bang for the $$" jigs around. I find it very useful for re-setting bevels and angles - correcting mistakes of the past and setting a path for the future. I've also used it side by side with freehand. And I find it really convenient for throwing a great edge on either beaters or daily users when I don't really have the time to concentrate on freehand (which in my house is most of the time) Lately, I've had to tame my OCD for all things sharpening, tame my OCD for knife lust, and instead try to put a meal on the table to enjoy with the wife and kids before one has to go sports practice, another to a friends house and the third wants to sit and watch tv with me.

IMHO, the EP is a great solution for someone new to sharpening, new to J-knives or someone who thinks that steel rod thingy or a chefs choice are sharpening options.

While I truely prefer to freehand, my freehand experience makes me appreciate and do a better job using the EP...and the EP improves and makes me do a better job freehanding.

I like Marko's analogy. When I first started to cook, I followed a recipe for french toast. No I don't. But if I'm cooking something new, say a tagine or Indian, I follow a recipe first.

So I'll 2nd that notion but then add some of my thoughts and experiences too.

One of the biggest misconceptions that I feel people have about the EP is that there is a very short learning curve and very little skill or understanding involved in using it to it's full potential. I feel that there is less of a learning curve / motor skill development required with the EP than freehand and that you can be a "proficient novice" with the EP faster than you can be freehand. However, mastering the EP takes time and the same understanding of the mechanics of sharpening, steel, edge performance, and cutting application.

I had a pretty solid background in freehand sharpening and sharpening theory when I bought my EP so it was more a matter of learning the mechanics of the system than learning how to sharpen. My first day on the EP I put the sharpest, best edge on a knife that I had on any other up to that point in my life. However, almost 3 years later, I feel that I am still improving both my EP and my freehand skills.

For me the EP is BOTH
1) a "quick and easy edge-production system": the one I reach for when I've got a pile of junky, abused friends' knives to sharpen
and
2) a "scientific tool of edge geekdome": the one that I reach for when learning a new steel or knife, diagnosing and repairing a problem, or just really nerding out with thinning behind the edge, compound bevels, or maximum attainable sharpness.

I've also been playing around with some EP tricks. One is creating a changing or "rolling" bevel where the angle is more obtuse near the heel and more acute near the tip for a knife where the tip is used for detail work or vica versa where the belly is used for rocking. It's a bit hard to describe this method without pictures, video, or and understanding of how the EP system works, but to put it simply the edge angle on the EP is dependent both on the height of the pivot point of the moving stone arm as well as the distance of the edge from the table so by either hanging part of the blade off of the support table and / or adjusting the angle of the blade in relation to the arc of the stone arm.


However, once I've figured out the best combination of angles, convexity, and polish, I do most of my edge maintenance freehand with strops, hones, and stones. I recently purchased my first j-nat from Jon at JKI and I couldn't be happier with it. It's fantastic for finishing, smoothing out a compound bevel or quickly touching up an edge that's just past where a hone or strop can bring it back to 100%. Freehand sharpening might still be my favorite, but I also enjoy the EP. I have the "Pro" version which is largely hand built and assembled. There is an amazing about of care, thought and, pride that went into it's design and build. F&F is very precise and it feels like using an old, pre-CNC, machinists' tool.

If I had to make an analogy between EP and freehand I would compare swimming to rowing or running to riding a bike.

Good post! You condensed a lot of threads and posts down into one fairly concise chunk. Is it a collection of a few different post though? I was reading it any nodding my head and saying "wow I really agree with this guy" and then I said "hey! I think I wrote some of this!"
Nice to know that I still agree with myself.

Troy G
04-26-2013, 01:53 PM
Thanks for the information. I should be busy reading for quite some time.

dannynyc
04-29-2013, 05:49 PM
Don't submit to the tyranny! I love my EP.

cwrightthruya
04-29-2013, 06:01 PM
I still use my edge pro on my folders. Most of them are made of either ElMax or something similarly terrible to sharpen, so I have difficulty abrading them to a really good edge. But, I would never go near any of my high end Kitchen Cutlery with an EP. That being said, if you do use an EP, as someone already mentioned, be sure and tape the sides or you will scratch the hell out of your knife.

Bill13
04-29-2013, 06:11 PM
I'll jump in and say I really like the EP too. Maybe it's a gateway drug to better sharpening because I am beginning to think about freehand sharpening :D. But even if I transitioned to freehand I would keep the EP, for sharpening the in laws and my parents knives. It has really taught me what is possible and while I don't doubt that given time to develop the skill free handing could be better, I am happy for now, although I am tempted to buy a couple stones from JKK or JNS to see what the fuss is all about:D.
Part of the issue is I would rather buy some knives than more stones since all my knives are old SS German Henkel's from the 90's and old Sabatier's from the 40's and 50's (which actually aren't too bad).

Troy G
04-29-2013, 08:02 PM
A couple more I use and EP posts and I may be able to come out of the EP closet. :)

Dave Martell
04-29-2013, 09:25 PM
Sinners - you're all going to hell! :D

xuz
04-29-2013, 09:42 PM
Ain't nothing wrong with jigs used by humans.
I think the boss of them all (at least from the looks of it) is the wicked edge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzL41ygQG0o
I've never been tempted by jigs, but this one seems pretty well thought out.

Some interesting aside information about factory edge vs whetstone edge performance based on mechanized blade testing. (Note: it might be biased by the study's funding source.)
http://www.minosharp.jp/catra/index.html

Mrmnms
04-29-2013, 09:47 PM
Who's gonna mess with the guys who bought the DMT's and holders from Marko? What, no J Nats? :D

Mucho Bocho
04-30-2013, 12:25 PM
Justin surmised it up perfectly. Well said. Read it again or save the feedback and read it again after a year with the EP.

I do it both ways but prefer my EP bevels to free-hand anyday. But then again, I ait no Mike Henry, Pierre, Marko, THEORY, PTiger either. No question, there are many on here that have prefected free-hand sharpening. They have my respect.

Although I do finish the blade freehand, balsa and leather strop, I still sharpen on the EP. The thing that sucks about the EP is set-up time. PIA getting the angle t set up correctly for each knife too. In my opinion, thats half of the battle. Its still my preferred sharpening device.



I've always said that the edge pro was a great teaching tool for me. It helped to understand angles/ compound angles , burr formation and reduction, grip progression, what works on one blade better than on another and why etc, all in a very scientific way that eliminated more of the "me factor" from the equation vs sharpening by hand. I had been sharpening by hand since before I could ride a bike, so I wasn't bad to begin with, but what I learned with the EP made me a much better free-hand sharpener. It was also a big confidence booster that gave the courage to experiment more and on some pretty intimidatingly expensive knives. I really don't use it much anymore, but I would also never sell it.

Still, if you have the chance to try one out for free, then go for it!

Bill13
04-30-2013, 05:37 PM
The WE reminds me of a Nordic Trac machine from the early 90's:lol2:

I do like how it is easier to set different bevels on each side.