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rdpx
04-25-2013, 08:41 AM
For my second Japanese knife I had decided that I wanted a honesuki, and in the end plunged for a Tojiro DP, mainly because I could get this knife from a UK website for cheaper than it was on sale in the USA, which seemed like a rare opportunity. Having read a lot of posts new and old about these knives I decided that the general opinion seemed to be that they were, all in all, a pretty solid knife for the money.

So, today my knife arrived (travelling the 200 miles in about the same time as a knife from Koki in Japan) and almost immediately I noticed what appears to be a bit of a problem.

First off, as I know you guys like photographs of knives, here is a standard portrait of the new DP...

http://i.imgur.com/5UkZp7c.jpg



On unpacking it, I saw that the bevel goes way off line, veering upwards about 2/3rds down from the tip, then heading back right down to the heel. I think this is overgrind? Here are some pictures:

http://i.imgur.com/p9QUZqt.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/dE2fFpx.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ePNUOSH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/waJYL6e.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/cLTc5KT.jpg



Regarding the general fit and finish of the knife, compared to my CarboNext it is pretty poor. I knew not to expect great things, but it seems kind of shoddy really. Here are a few pics of poor F&F round the handle. I also include a close up of the printing on the blade for anyone who is interested. Nothing wrong with it, I just seem to remember that you people like to look at photographs of these objects. ;) :

http://i.imgur.com/Pa16CsT.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Cf7FqWb.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/fsHBoIC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/TUqOzBH.jpg




I am hoping to get some advice about the following, though please feel free to comment further:

1. What do you think of the bevel issue? [overgrind?] Is it something that I can easily fix with my stones (bearing in mind that my #240 is getting very thin indeed after sorting out a couple of very blunt knives for a friend a couple of weeks ago)?

2. Is this level of F&F round the handle about what I should expect for this knife, or is this a particularly bad example?

3. Should I just send it back, and throw a little more money at a better knife, or should I throw a bit of effort into it and just keep it?


I haven't really played with it yet, so am not sure how much I like/don't like it. I thought I needed to find out what the deal is with the problems before I started to form any attachment to it, or otherwise. I am kind of leaning towards not liking it next to the CN though.


Thank you if you read this far, and apologies for the length of the post.

Robert

knyfeknerd
04-25-2013, 08:55 AM
Wow man, really bad F & F, etc. Definitely looks like an overgrind issue as well. I would send it back, no question. Whether you spent .20 or $200.00, this is a piece of crap.
I used to own this same knife and mine was way awesome compared to this.
(in my best grandpa voice) They just don't make 'em like they used ta!

heirkb
04-25-2013, 09:01 AM
I'd send it back and get in touch with Jon at JKI. He's got a knife in a similar price range and mine didn't have any of these issues. Or you could buy a fancier one with really nice fit and finish.

rdpx
04-25-2013, 09:06 AM
I'd send it back and get in touch with Jon at JKI. He's got a knife in a similar price range and mine didn't have any of these issues. Or you could buy a fancier one with really nice fit and finish.

H - I exchanged a couple of emails with Jon a few weeks ago and have been pondering all morning whether to go the JKI route (my sister is visiting from California in two months time...). He sent me a small picture of a stainless for $75 that looked nice. I am also considering upping my budget as you suggest. Just looking at the SS on the DP after being used to the CN for a few months is making me think that I have more feeling for the steel than I had thought. I had figured that it would be nice to try a SS knife, now I am wondering about that.


I would send it back, no question. Whether you spent .20 or $200.00, this is a piece of crap.

Come on, KK, don't sit on the fence. I need some solid opinion here :lol2:
[thanks]

Mrmnms
04-25-2013, 09:49 AM
Jon is such a stand up guy. He's offers advice and wisdom freely, even at his own expense. Sometimes when you're spending your hard earned money, it's good to think about who your spending it with. Having said that, I'll call him today and order a couple stones.

rdpx
04-25-2013, 09:55 AM
Jon is such a stand up guy. He's offers advice and wisdom freely, even at his own expense. Sometimes when you're spending your hard earned money, it's good to think about who your spending it with. Having said that, I'll call him today and order a couple stones.

I hear that. Always nice to spend the money with people who you like. The faff I had getting this DP was crazy - I initially called them to ask what time of day did I need to order something for it to be shipped, and eventually they said they didn't have one in stock, and they couldn;t tell me how long it would take to get one to me if I did order it. So I asked them to let me know when they had one in, and that I would then buy it. Two weeks later having heard nothing I called them up to find that they had had some in, but that they had sold them (not sure I believed this). Eventually I persuaded them to put one aside for me. When I finally ordered it on Monday morning I asked if they could let me know when it was likely to arrive, to no helpful response. They didn't even ship it till Tuesday evening.

Now considering options - the $75 one is tempting, but I am no longer sure about SS! I guess this gives me a nice excuse to keep on browsing for a while as I have 6 weeks before I would need to order anything from Jon to catch my sister's delivery service.

R

zitangy
04-25-2013, 10:11 AM
I wld email to them them your excellent pics adn ask them whether this is their standard of the grinds adn finishing?
IF not, kindlly deliver a perfect piece and inform them that their Quality Assurance has slipped. Who knows they might be grateful adn express it with a small token?

http://tojiro.net/en/
www.tojiro.net/en/
E-mail : kamoi@fuji-cut.co.jp

I am quite sure that they will replace it for you.

At times, they might try and get away by telling you that it is sharpened by hand.. Still no excuse.

THis is the result of either a new apprentice or the man doing his sharpening was distracted or off form/ simply not his day.

I am sure that they will address it. IF not, we all should know..

Personally, I wld take it as a challenge to do what I can with with the uneven edge adn look for ca glue to patch the handle bolster area. But that' s me.

Good-luck

rgds
d

stevenStefano
04-25-2013, 10:49 AM
I'd send it back. Sounds like it was a lot more hassle than it was worth. If your sister's coming over I'd definitely get something from Jon, I'd probably buy a few things actually, would save you a lot of money on shipping and import fees and all that

Squilliam
04-25-2013, 11:03 AM
IMO it is an undergrind, not an overgrind, so it shouldn't take long on the stone to take down the high point on the soft cladding. The handle isn't great, but it can be fixed with CA glue and sandpaper easily enough. Personally I wouldn't return it, because I like to play around on the stones with new knives at any rate, so some extra work to start it off doesn't bother me. Of course its up to you to choose what you would prefer to do.

heirkb
04-25-2013, 11:06 AM
The one Jon sells is great. Really tough, can cut through a lot of bone (if you're an idiot like me :lol2:) and come out unscathed. When it comes to sharpening, though, I'm convinced I have no feel for steel. That said, it hasn't been a knife that has made me hate sharpening.

You could also get a Gesshin Ginga White 2. I wish my honesuki had a wa-handle. That's probably the only thing I don't like about it, but I just don't like western handles in general.

Benuser
04-25-2013, 12:19 PM
Looks quite messy. I guess the grinder has overcompensated too fat a cladding, but you should measure the thickness with a micrometer to be sure. You weren't looking for a project knife, weren't you? In that case a soft stainless clad is you worse enemy, will clog your stones and sandpaper. Work for a belt grinder, with an uncertain issue.

Johnny.B.Good
04-25-2013, 12:23 PM
Knife looks awful, but the pictures are nice! ;)

Good luck resolving the situation...

Lefty
04-25-2013, 12:57 PM
What Johnny said. Send it back. I recently sharpened up three DPs for a customer and the only one that had no issues was the petty. I fixed the profile on the parer, evened the grind on the tip of the gyuto...just crap workmanship compared to what they used to be (according to it others' memories). Once the grind issues were fixed, the knives were solid. BUT, I'd just return yours and contact Jon or Maxim.

Dave Martell
04-25-2013, 01:12 PM
I've seen loads of these and most had issues but none quite this bad. The fix, for me, is to grind a wide bevel that evens it all out. That's not such a big deal with a belt and motor though - doing that that on stones could suck. The question I have is will this particular knife be OK even after the grinding, I can't tell from here and if I was to guess I'd only give it 50/50 odds.

Miles
04-25-2013, 01:57 PM
Maybe I'm just lucky, but I haven't had any issues with any of the Tojiros I've owned over the years. I never expected them to be absolutely perfect and knew I'd have to put a bit of work into them to get them sorted but I expect to do that with any blade. Even by my generous standards, that one is IMHO, one to be returned. It should have never left the factory like that. If you put anything under a microscope, you'll find issues, but the issues with this knife don't require a microscope, let alone a magnifying glass. Send it back or be prepared to do a little remodel work. The upside to taking the remodeling route is that you'll get some good practice and probably learn a few things in the process and the price of a Tojiro honesuki isn't exactly staggering so it's not a blade I'd worry too much about mucking up. That's why I've always liked the Tojiro honesuki. It's cheap, tough, and simply gets the job done.

SpikeC
04-25-2013, 06:25 PM
If you have a person coming to you from California soon, I don't see where you have any reason to not get something from Jon. When opportunity pounds on your head, open it!

TB_London
04-25-2013, 07:10 PM
I'd send it back with a print out of the pictures with a description next to each fault.
The handle gaps filled with gloop are pretty standard, the wonky grind looks like someone sneezed when they were working on it.
When I'm next in the states I'm taking an empty suitcase with me, there are so many things that are like hens teeth in the uk

scott6452
04-25-2013, 07:34 PM
I'd send it back with a print out of the pictures with a description next to each fault.
The handle gaps filled with gloop are pretty standard, the wonky grind looks like someone sneezed when they were working on it.
When I'm next in the states I'm taking an empty suitcase with me, there are so many things that are like hens teeth in the uk

I'll get my shopping list ready :wink:

rdpx
04-26-2013, 07:48 AM
Thanks for all the comments everyone.

The overwhelming consensus seems to be to send it back - Dave Martell saying he would do it on a belt and even then only with 50/50 chance of success was perhaps the most damning comment.

With a heavy heart I have emailed them to ask how I go about a return. Hopefully they will make it very painless for me but I am guessing I will probably still have to cover the return postage, unless they are really on top of it. Will let you know how it goes.

I think I may delay the honesuki for a while - might think about getting a proper carbon sujihiki in the meantime...

R

TB_London
04-26-2013, 08:24 AM
There's a 240 Masamoto KS in BST if you're looking for a carbon suji

Mike9
04-26-2013, 04:23 PM
It is a boning knife after all. I'm with Miles - for the price you just got yourself a learning tool that you can use - you know - on bones.

rdpx
04-26-2013, 07:11 PM
"Please accept our sincere apologies for the quality of the knife you have received. In light of this issue and another similar problem, we have removed this range of knives from our website pending a review. "

Wow.

I guess it's going to cost me return postage, which is kind of annoying, but onwards and upwards and all that....