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View Full Version : forced patina on shigefusa?



pkjames
05-03-2013, 09:22 AM
Hi fellow knifenuts,

Being a lurker here for a long time and this is my first thread! Excited!

I have been using Japanese kitchen knifes for a while now and most of my previous purchases are stainless blades. After reading so much on how go the carbon blades are, and taking the low exchange rate on yen, I recently jumped onto the boat of carbon knives and bought a few shigefusa knifes.

I know that shigs are quite reactive, so I just want to put a forced patina on to the blades before start seriously using them.
I kinda like those even blue / purple patina and was wondering if you have any good suggestion on what would be the best way to put them on.

Ive read methods like Darkhoeks' blog on putting patina on shigs (chicken / mustard) ; and the warm blood method from the patina thread; and even fresh coconut! Just not really sure which way will result in the most even blue / purple patina.

So, yeah, hope you guys can shed light on this, some pic would help to! :biggrin:

Cheers,
James

Some pics of the shigs! One more deba on the way!
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2P0F7MCwKzA/UYO4txFzi8I/AAAAAAAABJ4/-t3rKz2jZGs/w801-h1200/_DSC2020.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5eg9hVy1Ybc/UYO4uitrzGI/AAAAAAAABKA/xbpe84qvaPw/w801-h1200/_DSC2019.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OqfwiAkZVuo/UYO4vTcOUJI/AAAAAAAABKI/2R7AkV5a1ho/w1200-h801/_DSC2018.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-B3CrO-o9OvA/UYO4wObWrMI/AAAAAAAABKQ/srOQow3Enc0/w1200-h801/_DSC2017.jpg

knyfeknerd
05-03-2013, 09:47 AM
Really, really, really knice set of knives! That kamagata usuba is my fav!

Lucretia
05-03-2013, 09:51 AM
Prepare yourself for wailing and gnashing of the teeth from the purists! :eek2:

I put a mustard finish on my ajikiri and have been really happy with it--enough that I'm planning to do my gyuto in my copious spare time. Didn't get a lot of blue, but there is some blue when the light hits it right--more of a silvery/grey textured effect. Knife doesn't stink so much now when used.





15009

15010

Lefty
05-03-2013, 09:59 AM
I realize how weird this is going to sound, but here goes: when you're in the mood for the blues, nothing works like covering your blade with warm blood.

Haha. Wow, that was strange...seriously, warm cow blood.

Jmadams13
05-03-2013, 10:10 AM
What lefty said. Was playing around with patinas the other week, so I saved the blood from a shoulder I broke down, and I warmed it up on the stove, then painted it on with a paint brush. The blues were amazing. Ive since polished that blade, so no pics, but warm blood is the best way to go for blues.

You could just cut some warm rare beef.

Patatas Bravas
05-03-2013, 10:27 AM
Wonderful knives. You've bought 3 of them?

Lucretia - your ajikiri is nicely done!

My shig gyuto was quite reactive at first, but after using it a bit - I actually tried to keep the patina off, later sharpening, thinning, polishing, etc - actually it didn't take that long, but I'd say that soon enough it wasn'tt very reactive at all. I don't know about others' experiences, but it only seemed reactive initially like many knives do. Therefore, I'd say maybe you don' t have to worry about forced patinas and reactivity if you don't want. You could try, or go and try the patina and polish it later if you don' t like it. Iizuka-san would probably prefer patina-less though ;)

Pensacola Tiger
05-03-2013, 10:30 AM
Given that you'll be using the yanagiba on proteins, and therefore won't need to worry about reactivity, I would keep it patina-free. If you're not cutting reactive food with the usuba, I'd keep it patina-free, also. Just scrub them with a cloth and baking soda.

For killing reactivity on the gyuto, the hot vinegar/mustard method on Darkhoek's blog is the best I've used, but it's not a bluish/purplish patina that you seem to want, so you may want to take Lefty's advice. You could always use Lucretia's method and then slice hot meat with it to add some color.

Lefty
05-03-2013, 10:35 AM
Great points, Rick! Also, the more layers, the better.

Chef Niloc
05-03-2013, 10:39 AM
I like the patina that red bell peppers bring out. If a knife is very reactive just cutting a few will do the trick. If not letting the blade sit covered with slices works.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa214/celtic2174/Chef%20Nilocs%20Knives/836bfdd6f8a4fd5e9e398cc89ecb67d5.jpg

Lefty
05-03-2013, 10:45 AM
Dammit, more traffic from me. Sorry!

Colin, it's funny you mention red bell peppers, because they are something my wife and I eat every day, whether they be in salads, sautÚs, with dip, caramelized, etc. As a result, I know if a knife needs more patina based on the smell I get from cutting them. I also know a knife needs a touch up when it doesn't fall through the skin, or cut the stem cleanly in half.

*Fun fact (or, from what I've read, a fact): Red bell peppers have three times the vitamin c of an orange and are considered a super food, because of their anti-oxidant properties and huge vitamin content.

jgraeff
05-03-2013, 10:54 AM
Fish brings out blues and purples! I wish someone would post a video though, some of you guys get really nice faux patinas more of let glut happen guy though.

mark76
05-03-2013, 12:24 PM
Prepare yourself for wailing and gnashing of the teeth from the purists! :eek2:

I put a mustard finish on my ajikiri and have been really happy with it--enough that I'm planning to do my gyuto in my copious spare time. Didn't get a lot of blue, but there is some blue when the light hits it right--more of a silvery/grey textured effect. Knife doesn't stink so much now when used.





15009

15010

Beautiful! Could you tell us what you did to get that pattern?

cclin
05-03-2013, 01:07 PM
for patina-free & minimise food reactive- I rinse blade with hot water before & after used it, then polish with Daikon and wa powder or baking soda.
for blue / purple patina- I use hot pork fat....

pkjames
05-03-2013, 07:06 PM
Hi guys, thanks very much for your comments and suggestions! being in australia and thanks to the time difference, its sometimes hard to reply in time. sorry.

Lucretia's pattern is very impressive, I wonder how you achieved such pattern? Almost like a damuscus patina :p

thanks for lefty and chef niloc for the tips, i will see if i can find cow/pig blood today and i don't often see them here down under, but will definitely give red bell pepper a try. I am thinking usaba for red bell pepper and gyuto for mustard / protein way. Will leave the slicer for now as some of you suggested, and because it will be cutting fish, it should be able to form a natural blue / purple patina.

Thanks again guys, heading to the supermarket and will report back :)

James

schanop
05-03-2013, 07:14 PM
How cool. We have another Shig hoarder here in Australia.

mkmk
05-03-2013, 07:29 PM
Cured meat seems to work well for blues and purples, too. There are never enough excuses to eat prosciutto, anyway. For just getting something protective on there, hot vinegar works very quickly.

bkultra
05-03-2013, 07:30 PM
Lucretia's pattern is very impressive, I wonder how you achieved such pattern? Almost like a damuscus patina :p


If I had to guess I would say it was applied using bubble wrap

pkjames
05-03-2013, 10:44 PM
So, had a bit of fun this morning.

First, for the usaba. I started with red bell pepper, chopping, applying juice and buried the knife in to the slices. The steel is very reactive to it but formed more like a darker patina. I thought it was quite nice but decided to play around a bit more, so I applied a bit of mustard / vinegar mixture and even wrapped it into bubble wrap.

The end result is quite "confronting":O
I guess it is vastly different from what it use to like, I am fine with it, but may take another go later on :D

original state
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-i-Na4PUHF2s/UYR1q6mk1kI/AAAAAAAABMk/vQJSjtjtm1w/w1000-h667/_DSC2024.jpg

the fun begins
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-oXqVeTbJQJM/UYR1pmSyehI/AAAAAAAABMU/PAz-x81siOo/w1000-h667/_DSC2026.jpg

end result
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8mT0f5DW7TI/UYR1n05goNI/AAAAAAAABL8/79SSx7QcIME/w1000-h667/_DSC2030.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-RqV-n2KTvRg/UYR1lgWBvyI/AAAAAAAABLc/zv9JVvPNJSk/w1000-h667/_DSC2034.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Oz7yvcYbORA/UYR1lEb5lpI/AAAAAAAABLU/MA0a30Jo3kg/w1000-h751/_DSC2035.jpg

pkjames
05-03-2013, 10:49 PM
For the gyuto, i took a safer approach.

Just go through warm chicken breast with a bit of mustard in the mix (not having read meat today). The patina developed a lot slower, but it is a very even layer of subtle blue and purple patina.
so I guess with a bit of red meat out of oven, it will be pretty nice!

original state
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-BhAMlJ_TIJs/UYR1qNyrWqI/AAAAAAAABMc/jaUlF9pmcVw/w1000-h667/_DSC2025.jpg

processing!
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-kpmAGMqBhTQ/UYR1oz_LgbI/AAAAAAAABMM/01lSc03qK2k/w1000-h667/_DSC2027.jpg

after about 40 minutes playing around
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ZQkYgXoiLjI/UYR1kCdgunI/AAAAAAAABLE/roI9gUyc7dA/w1000-h667/_DSC2037.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0Z4JiHa5mcM/UYR1jWZ-GzI/AAAAAAAABK8/o6YRG_9bo2Y/w1000-h667/_DSC2038.jpg

turbochef422
05-03-2013, 10:49 PM
That's a beautiful knife. I am an all natural patina guy so I like it to build character as I use it. But I have to say I like what you did.

Lucretia
05-04-2013, 01:41 AM
No bubblewrap. Just a small applicator bottle picked up at the craft store for about a buck, filled with store-brand mustard. Apply mustard in dots, stripes, whatever, let it dry for a couple of hours, wash it off, and give it a light cleaning with fine steel wool. Repeat until you're happy. I think this had 4-5 applications of mustard on each side. WIP on my ZK here (http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/299-My-favorite-color-is-BLUE!-A-patina-thread/page20) towards the bottom of the page. The ZK was done using a finger to apply the mustard. I like using the applicator bottle better--it gives you more control.

bikehunter
05-04-2013, 11:05 AM
*Fun fact (or, from what I've read, a fact): Red bell peppers have three times the vitamin c of an orange and are considered a super food, because of their anti-oxidant properties and huge vitamin content.

Thanks, I didn't know that. I never cook much of anything, from plain ol' beans to stir fry, without red peppers. Not to mention just grabbing a super fresh one to eat raw.