PDA

View Full Version : Misono advice please



rdpx
05-08-2013, 09:41 PM
My Misono Swedish Sujihiki arrived yesterday, in perfect timing for my birthday. Beautifully gift wrapped as ever by Koki.

The whole thing from wrapping to box to knife was beautiful, then after picking it up and trying to get a feel for it (I am only used to a 210 gyuto so a 270 suji is quite a leap) I noticed something that started to worry me about it. It seems like there is something really weird going on with the bolster, like it was joined on at a slightly wrong angle and also a little too high. This means that there is a slight bump where the bolster meets the blade, and the blade seems to dip downwards. When laid flat on its back it only touches the surface at either end, and judging from what I expected from product photos I have seen, it should be flat along the top until it starts to dip towards the tip. Also the line of the choil is not parallel to the line of where the bolster meets the handle wood. On my CarboNext the knife lies flat on the surface, and the choil/bolster are parallel, and that seems just right.

Upshot is that I am not really feeling very happy with it. If I had bought the FKH and it was like this I probably would have shrugged and said "oh well you should have stumped up the extra $130 for the Misono" but as I was expecting this to be a rather wonderful knife I am a little disappointed. More pertinently I am not very experienced with J-knives so i don't know if I am being too critical and if this is justfairly normal, rather than a fault in the manufacture.

I have emailed Koki about this and he has been, as ever, very helpful and understanding. I have just sent him these same photos but he will be asleep at the moment, but I told him that I would ask in here first before making decision as to whether I would like to send it back or not. Having received a bum Tojiro DP a few weeks back that got returned for a refund I am feeling a little flat about this as it is a birthday present from my girlfriend [and a very generous one at that) and so I really want to love it.

What do you guys think? Attached some photos - this was a really hard issue to photograph as it is quite subtle but once noticed you can't ignore it. The red line on my photo runs in line with the top of the bolster. The white pic is a rotated product shot from a webshop.

http://i.imgur.com/ON5Mnc9.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WlcXsTB.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/S7z2uDI.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/VrTb9Pp.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/yW75as8.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/kIvSW7W.jpg

sachem allison
05-08-2013, 10:40 PM
This is fairly normal, I imagine the knife is put through a few hand finishing steps and this is the result. A human signature so, to speak. Not all knives are exactly the same ever even on the same line and same equipment. I have seen much, much worse even from custom makers. This my friend is wabi sabi.lol Everything you have pointed out is really a non issue but, with that said, You are the buyer and if you are not happy with your purchase send it back. The odds of you getting another knife that is dead on perfect in every way that you want is really slim to none. None of these things will effect performance, the knife isn't suddenly going to fall apart. The world is filled with sunshine and farts. Today you just happen to have a sunny day with a little tiny itty bitty feathery wisp of a cloud disturbing your otherwise perfectly blue sky.
In other words if you ain't happy send it back and there ain't nothing wrong with it.

Mike9
05-08-2013, 10:55 PM
If that bothers you you will never be satisfied. You could trade it for another and there will be something else that is not perfect. Son summed it up pretty well I think. Have you bothered to use it yet?

rdpx
05-08-2013, 10:56 PM
This is fairly normal, I imagine the knife is put through a few hand finishing steps and this is the result. A human signature so, to speak. Not all knives are exactly the same ever even on the same line and same equipment. I have seen much, much worse even from custom makers. This my friend is wabi sabi.lol Everything you have pointed out is really a non issue but, with that said, You are the buyer and if you are not happy with your purchase send it back. The odds of you getting another knife that is dead on perfect in every way that you want is really slim to none. None of these things will effect performance, the knife isn't suddenly going to fall apart. The world is filled with sunshine and farts. Today you just happen to have a sunny day with a little tiny itty bitty feathery wisp of a cloud disturbing your otherwise perfectly blue sky.
In other words if you ain't happy send it back and there ain't nothing wrong with it.

"Wabi-sabi (侘寂?) represents a comprehensive Japanese world view or aesthetic centered on the acceptance of transience and imperfection. The aesthetic is sometimes described as one of beauty that is "imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete".[1] It is a concept derived from the Buddhist teaching of the three marks of existence (三法印 sanbōin?), specifically impermanence (無常 mujō?), the other two being suffering (苦 ku?) and emptiness or absence of self-nature (空 kū?)."

Maybe that is why there are three marks on the bolster as well? [3rd pic] ;)

Thanks Sachem - I guess this is what I was asking. I didn't think that performance would be affected or that it would break, just wanted to have some opinions on whether what I had was something more experienced people would also comment on. When I posted the DP pics it was almost unanimous that the knife was screwed and I should send it back immediately. I don't want dead on perfect, but this example does suffer next to my CN and the budget rise was supposed to bring me up a level....

I guess I was asking whether this was something that I SHOULD be bothered by.

I am not sure if I will learn to love it - it really seems obvious to me when I pick it up. I may get used to it, but can't tell either way without using it and so rendering it unreturnable. I will mull on it for a day or two and see how Koki replies to my reply to him.

Any more opinions would be very welcome.

Robert

sachem allison
05-08-2013, 11:01 PM
I think my friend now that you know it's there it is mocking you everytime you pick it up. You may have other things going on and this knife has become the focus. get rid of it and get a new one. No harm, No foul.

sachem allison
05-08-2013, 11:04 PM
Those three marks look like plier tooth marks, someone was gripping with pliers and the rubber cover probably was worn through or missing and left those marks when they were grinding the bolster.

Chefdog
05-08-2013, 11:06 PM
I don't think that's too unusual, although maybe a bit more pronounced than is typical. Koki will undoubtedly swap it for you and probably hand pick a new one that is the best he has. He did something similar for me a while back, and shipped the new knife to me before he had even recieved the one I sent back.

I say go ahead and ask him to check out the others in stock, and if there's one that's better, ship it to you. Then you won't always think about it when you go to slice something and will be able to fully enjoy your birthday knife.

rdpx
05-08-2013, 11:06 PM
Have you bothered to use it yet?

Are you suggesting that it was lazy of me to ask here whether this was faulty before I rendered the knife unreturnable?

:scratchhead:

ThEoRy
05-08-2013, 11:07 PM
15105

rdpx
05-08-2013, 11:10 PM
I don't think that's too unusual, although maybe a bit more pronounced than is typical. Koki will undoubtedly swap it for you and probably hand pick a new one that is the best he has. He did something similar for me a while back, and shipped the new knife to me before he had even recieved the one I sent back.

I say go ahead and ask him to check out the others in stock, and if there's one that's better, ship it to you. Then you won't always think about it when you go to slice something and will be able to fully enjoy your birthday knife.

Yes I have every faith in Koki from my dealings with him so far he is one of the most pleasant people to purchase from I have ever come across.
The "enjoying birthday knife" thing is really important. If I don't love this thing my girlfriend is going to be sad. I will sit on it for a few days.


You may have other things going on and this knife has become the focus.

This is probably very insightful indeed. ;)

turbochef422
05-08-2013, 11:43 PM
Where those marks are is where the numbers are on the gyuto. Mine says 007 I think so its weird that those are there in place. I've never held their suji so I don't know if they normally have numbers or not.

franzb69
05-09-2013, 12:14 AM
yours is a lot better finish than the misono swedish hankotsu i got. lol. specially where the welding marks on the bolster is at.

mkmk
05-09-2013, 12:18 AM
That wouldn't bother me a bit if I otherwise liked the knife.

Benuser
05-09-2013, 12:19 AM
I've examined my Swedish gyuto to compare with Robert's sujihiki and found exactly the same, a little less pronounced though - not speaking of the bolster marks, of course. The blade very slightly inclined upwards . The choil far from perpendicular to the spine, the bolster parallel nor perpendicular to anything. The spine curved. The handle's upper side may seem straight but is concave. The blade can lay edge up on table, touches it at the butt of the handle, the bolster and at some 4cm from the tip.
I've compared to my boring Fujiwara sujihiki: there, spine and handle are flat and in line. Bolster and choil parallel - not perpendicular to the spine, though.
My conclusion so far: is part of the design. Quite subtle details most of them I never noticed before.

Miles
05-09-2013, 02:40 AM
I have a couple different knives from the Misono Swedish line. I don't see anything wrong with the knife. It appears very normal to me. The spine on my suji curves slightly. The Swedish line all have numbers stamped on the bolster. Each model gets a different number. There's nothing wrong with it, but if you aren't happy, send it back and get another one but be prepared for something similar.

RobinW
05-09-2013, 02:44 AM
If it bothers you send it makes a brilliant Wa-conversion :headbang:

mkriggen
05-09-2013, 02:52 AM
I don't think that's too unusual, although maybe a bit more pronounced than is typical. Koki will undoubtedly swap it for you and probably hand pick a new one that is the best he has. He did something similar for me a while back, and shipped the new knife to me before he had even recieved the one I sent back.

I say go ahead and ask him to check out the others in stock, and if there's one that's better, ship it to you. Then you won't always think about it when you go to slice something and will be able to fully enjoy your birthday knife.

:yeahthat: I wouldn't be bothered by it but I also know that there are other things that bother me that don't bother other people (does that make sense?). If Koki is willing to exchange it you should do it, otherwise it will irritate you every time you see it (kinda like a bad tattoo). And don't feel bad about doing it, it's just part of the back and forth that has to happen when you're buying sight unseen. I'm sure Koki would rather put out a little extra effort and have a satisfied customer for life.

franzb69
05-09-2013, 03:16 AM
if it doesn't bother performance or the overall comfort while using the knife, i wouldn't even think about it

=D

Benuser
05-09-2013, 01:11 PM
http://postimg.org/image/ky848jyqn/

Lefty
05-09-2013, 01:28 PM
I wonder if it might e one of those tiny design elements we don't tend to notice, but make a big difference in comfort....

http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc399/Lefty-T/338103EA-0D5E-4E71-9702-0517E126D120-10072-00000BA10BC7DE70.jpg

rdpx
05-09-2013, 03:41 PM
Thank you to everyone who replied to this. It is very helpful to have the benefit of your experienced eyes and my worry has been dispelled - namely that there is nothing wrong with the knife.
Now I have to decide whether I actually like it, then start using the thing so I can get accustomed to it. It is very long and thin compared to what I am used to, and next to it my 210 CarboNext suddenly seems very small.
Has anyone out there got experience with both of these steels who can say what difference I am going to find when it comes to using/sharpening this beast?

Robert

Benuser
05-09-2013, 04:21 PM
The Misono comes with a nicely polished but overly convexed edge, ending up at some 35 degree inclusive. It is rather weak due to the factory buffering as so common with OOTB edges. You may start a few mm above the shoulders at the lowest angle you're comfortable with, on both sides. Common values for the final edge with this steel are some 10/15 degree, proportion 70/30.
It may sound as a major operation, but the Swedish carbon sharpens very, very easily.