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Chefdog
05-10-2013, 09:00 PM
After buying, trying and selling several kinds of stones over the last year and a half I've finally decided to consolidate to two stones and a strop.
I'm thinking chosera 600 & 3k will give me what I'm looking for.
Here's the question: I already have a chosera 400, so is there really any good reason to sell it and start over with the 600? Or just keep it cause it won't really make a noticeable difference?
I'd you've used both, let me know what you think. Or if you think the 800 makes more sense with the 3K??
Thanks.

420layersofdank
05-10-2013, 10:27 PM
Keep the 400 for bevel repair. Check out the gesshin 2000 . I was fortunate to try it out when i visited jon at jki and it was simply amazing. Cuts so freakin fast with nice mud and shwarf build up. Haha shwarf

Chefdog
05-10-2013, 10:49 PM
I have no doubt the gesshin 2K is awesome. I had the 1&5k at one point, and the quality was very good.
But I'm kinda set on the chosera because I don't want soakers, I really prefer a harder stone, and I don't want to go finer than 3-4k.
If Jon's 4k wasn't a soaker, I'd go with it and the gesshin 600 splash and go.

Benuser
05-11-2013, 12:54 AM
I use myself a Chosera 400, 800, 2k and 5k progression. No experience with the 600. I would suggest you to get the 800, it's a very versatile stone with a great reach. It corresponds more or less to a J1200.
If possible keep the 400, not just for repairs. Some steels respond better if addressed with it.
The 800 and 3k make a great combination. I must admit I'm somewhat biased by the low prices for the Choseras in Europe, and the absence of a real alternative here.

joetbn
05-11-2013, 06:17 AM
JKS 3K splash 'n go?

TB_London
05-11-2013, 07:19 AM
I have the 400 and the 600 choseras, but don't have the 3k. The jump from 600 to 2k works ok as they're quick cutting stones. Not sure you'd need to drop to the 600 for touch ups though. 1k chosera will bring up a burr pretty quickly. If you already have a 400 I'd get a 1k and a finisher. That way you have the 400 for thinning and repair, the finisher for touch ups and the 1k to reset the bevels when it needs it.

Chefdog
05-11-2013, 08:00 AM
Thanks for the replies guys.
Benuser, thanks for the info on the 800. You think it cuts fast enough to handle minor repair and thinning jobs?

TB- I'm trying to stick to 2 stones, one sub 1K, and one +\- 3K. That's where I'm trying to find out if the 600 or 800 make more sense as the coarsest stone when paired with the 3K. I have a diamond plate for really big repairs if needed Andy blades are all set up where I want them so I'm dealing with just maintenance thinning and keeping an edge.

Thanks for the help.

Benuser
05-11-2013, 02:07 PM
Thanks
Benuser, thanks for the info on the 800. You think it cuts fast enough to handle minor repair and thinning jobs?

Absolutely no problem. If your diamond plate leaves deep scratches you will still need the 400, though. As for large thinning operations with abrasion resistant stainless.

psfred
05-11-2013, 06:19 PM
The progression of stones you should use depends on the steel you are sharpening. Very hard Japanese steels are somewhat unforgiving of skipped grits and you will have a terrible time getting smooth, scratch free blades that are truely sharp. For something like typical German knife that isn't so hard, skipping grits is OK as the steel grinds away must faster.

I have not used the Choseras, but I do have some experience with Naniwa Superstones, and since they are similar grit sizes, I would suggest you keep your 400, get an 800, and then a 1000 or 2000 and a 5000. Use the 400 to grind out minor chips and re-set bevels, the 800 for major touchup, and the 1000 or 2000 for routine sharpening followed by the 5000.

Of course, what I'm using at the moment is a King 300 Deluxe for major re-work, a Bester 700 and 1200 for routine sharpening (the 1200 is fine for most re-sharpening, it cuts quite fast) and then on to a Naniwa 3000 Superstone, a 6000 grit King, and for real polish, a Kitayama. For normal knives, 3000 is as far as I go.

Hope this helps. I really like the Besters, no slurry to speak of, just fast cutting and clean edges, but suit yourself, how one sharpens one's knives is a fairly personal thing.

Peter

bieniek
05-12-2013, 12:26 AM
The man is set to two stones.

I totally understand cause that is what i usually use.

As a regular sharpening goes, why to use 400/600 - so low grit range? You found it giving you the edge you digg or?

TB_London
05-12-2013, 06:13 AM
If just 2 stones, 1k and 3k.

Why you'd get rid of the 400 you already have and not hang onto it for thinning in the future puzzles me though.
600 and 800 are too coarse for touch ups IMO

Squilliam
05-12-2013, 06:58 AM
How about the JNS 1k and 2k Green Brick? They are pretty much opposite stones, with the JNS being hard, fast and with a scratchy but consistent finish. The Green Brick is buttery, muddy and fine finishing (4-5k +).
IMO the JNS is fast enough for thinning on its own, but I use it to follow the Beston 500.

Chefdog
05-12-2013, 07:22 AM
Thanks, i appreciate the input and opinions guys.


I have a JNS 1K, and it is quite a fast cutting stone and I like the hardness and ability to grab it and go when needed. Maybe it's a little more coarse than the average 1K? Can anyone compare it to, say, a chosera 600 or 800? Do all the choseras seem to act like slightly finer stones than their ratings would suggest?

Benuser
05-12-2013, 08:33 AM
Check this grit chart:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/856708-The-Grand-Unified-Grit-Chart

Chefdog
05-12-2013, 09:02 AM
Check this grit chart:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/856708-The-Grand-Unified-Grit-Chart

Awesome!


Now, Anybody know what the abrasive size is in the JNS 1K??? Maksim???

maxim
05-12-2013, 09:07 AM
I have bestone, chosera and JNS 1k I think JNS 1k is same fines as Chosera 1k and both is bit finer then king 1k and bestone 1k

Chefdog
05-12-2013, 09:26 AM
I have bestone, chosera and JNS 1k I think JNS 1k is same fines as Chosera 1k and both is bit finer then king 1k and bestone 1k

Thanks maxim! Your JNS 1K cuts so fast, I always assumed it was more coarse than other 1K stones.

cwrightthruya
05-12-2013, 10:01 AM
I know I am a little late to the party. But, if you have the JNS 1k I have found it to be as fast as the Chosera 800. Interestingly, I also discovered that the JNS 1k will cut "almost" as fast as a Chosera 600 when you use a diamond plate to raise a thicker slurry before you start sharpening or thinning. Using this method, I can usually perform minor repair and thinning with little hassle using the JNS 1k (Maybe 10 minutes on the JNS 1k vs 7 or so on the chosera 600). With that being said, I am not sure the JNS 1k or any 1k would be suitable to continued heavy repair work, a 400 grit stone may be appropriate.

But, for a normal sharpening progression, assuming the knife is very dull. I usually hit the JNS 1k/Gesshin 2k followed by a suita and I am finished in 6-7 minutes....and I am slow.

For a totally synthetic stone progression, if the knife is in need of major repair, or if I am just in a hurry, I use the Gesshin 400 followed by the Gesshin 2k. Strop on 1uM diamond and I get what I consider a scary sharp edge. Total time about 4 minutes or variable up to 10 minutes (assuming repair work).

Regards,
Chris

Canadian
05-12-2013, 02:04 PM
First starting out I had a 6 stone progression (120, 320, 1000, 2000, 4000, 10,000), but then I realized it wasn't for me. Not only was I sharpening less because hauling out all those stones, soaking them, flattening them, drying them and then storing then again was simply burdensome and 100% unnecessary. It was not making my edges sharper and after watching MC's videos as well as cutting with one of his OOTB edges I was converted to the belief that it really is 99% technique.

So I sold all my stones and went to a simple 2 stone progression (1k, 4k) with a DMT plate for flattening and heavy duty repair, but TBH I only broke it out once on an old stainless German knife that was badly abused. Even for small chips I found the 1k stone to be more than sufficient.

After going back to basics I practiced, practiced and practiced some more. I was starting to achieve extremely sharp edges--

Regarding higher grit stones, I began to realize how little difference there was between a 4k and 8k stone in terms of final edge polish.

Another thing, once you become really proficient your preferences will become more clear to you. Don't let other people's opinions or experiences sway your judgment. We are all different and what works for me might not work for you. However, I do believe that a person who masters a two stone setup will achieve just as sharp of an edge as someone who masters a 4-10 stone setup plus multiple strops--at least in practical terms.

Since then I have sold my two Shapton GS (1k/4K) and have went to an 8x3" natural stone (super thick too) of European origin (not coticule or BB). It is a very special stone that is not at all know of these forums and extremely rare. I found a gentleman who runs a very small operation out of his village (no advertising or website). The stone cuts as fast is my Arishiyama 1K (which I keep around because it is such an EXCELLENT synthetic stone) but it leaves an almost bead blasted finish, which for food processing is as far as I take it. It has all the good qualities of a natural with none of the bad, especially in this range (cuts as fast as a synthetic 1k, but finish is closer to a 4k). Dishes very slow and a quick splash of water and its ready to go.

So now I am using only one stone for my knives. I have a DMT XXC for flattening. I also have a loaded strop, which i am experimenting with--I'm undecided about it still.

Sorry for the rambling. it's my first post in a while.

Edit*** I should also add that my current knife sharpening practice, although with only one stone, is not a deliberate attempt, experiment or some minimalist OCD compulsion I have. If I felt (or feel in the future) that adding another stone or strop in my progression yields better results I would/will add it. However, right now my one stone is working perfectly and makes sharpening a painless and enjoyable process.

Chefdog
05-12-2013, 02:10 PM
I know I am a little late to the party. But, if you have the JNS 1k I have found it to be as fast as the Chosera 800. Interestingly, I also discovered that the JNS 1k will cut "almost" as fast as a Chosera 600 when you use a diamond plate to raise a thicker slurry before you start sharpening or thinning. Using this method, I can usually perform minor repair and thinning with little hassle using the JNS 1k (Maybe 10 minutes on the JNS 1k vs 7 or so on the chosera 600).

But, for a normal sharpening progression, assuming the knife is very dull. I usually hit the JNS 1k/Gesshin 2k followed by a suita and I am finished in 6-7 minutes....and I am slow.

... I use the Gesshin 400 followed by the Gesshin 2k. Strop on 1uM diamond and I get what I consider a scary sharp edge.

Regards,
Chris
Thanks Chris, this is very helpful to put some things into perspective regarding relative speed and cutting power.

You're not the only one ive heard speak highly of the 400-2K-strop sequence with the gesshins. I do like an aggressive edge, and I'm sure this provides just that. I can only assume similar results with chosera stones in place of the gesshins without having to soak.

2-3K seems like a great place for normal maintanence and a 400-600 to drop down and quickly cut in a fresh edge when needed, as well as take care of thinning and repairs.

Thanks again guys. I love it when a plan comes together!

keithsaltydog
05-12-2013, 04:41 PM
A two Stone setup wt. good tech. goes along way.My Gesshin 2K getting a little thin been using it alot.Now using a 1200 Bester-4K Gesshin setup.

Chefdog
05-12-2013, 05:54 PM
Yeah, I'm pretty confident that at this point (for my knives), the right 2 stones will allow me to do anything I need to do and produce the kind of edge I want.
I think I'm just gonna keep the 400 chosera and see how it works for a while. The only decision is 2K or 3K to follow???

Chefdog
05-12-2013, 08:27 PM
Hey Canadian,
Thanks for your reply, I must've missed it the first time around.
I've gone through 5 sets of stones in almost 2 years, and the biggest improvement has come from nothing more than sharpening more often. The second biggest positive is that I know what I like and what I don't, which makes the choices a little simpler. And I like simple.

Benuser
05-12-2013, 10:21 PM
I think I'm just gonna keep the 400 chosera and see how it works for a while. The only decision is 2K or 3K to follow???
The jump from 400 to 2k is perfectly possible, a little more work than with the 800 in between. You won't remove completely the 400 scratches. Very nice, toothy edge as one may expect.

psfred
05-12-2013, 10:42 PM
If you are just sharpening your knives and do not expect to do serious repair work or thinning, a Bester 1000 or 1200 and either a 3000 or 5000 stone will work very well for you. I like the Bester stones because they rarely require flattening and are quite clean, and any 3000 or 5000 stone will work after them with very little wear.

Any chips or serious damage to the edge is going to take forever to grind out on a 1200 grit stone, I'd keep the Chosera 400 for that. Normal wear and tear isn't going to require the coarse stone to fix.

Peter

Benuser
05-13-2013, 12:20 AM
If you are just sharpening your knives and do not expect to do serious repair work or thinning, a Bester 1000 or 1200 and either a 3000 or 5000 stone will work very well for you. I like the Bester stones because they rarely require flattening and are quite clean, and any 3000 or 5000 stone will work after them with very little wear.

Any chips or serious damage to the edge is going to take forever to grind out on a 1200 grit stone, I'd keep the Chosera 400 for that. Normal wear and tear isn't going to require the coarse stone to fix.

Peter

IIRC, the Besters are soakers and the OP asked specifically for splash and go.

Benuser
05-13-2013, 12:30 AM
Trying a little further with my Choseras I've found even a jump from 400 to 5k is possible and leaves a great edge.
Not advisable as a routine progression though: would you have any fatigued steel to be removed, and normally you always have, a 400 might be an overkill and constitute a waste of material. And you have to stay much too long with the 5k, starting by removing the scratches with a lot of mud and applying more pressure than normally, causing in the long run more wear than is wise with such an expensive stone.

Chefdog
05-13-2013, 08:01 AM
Thanks for the effort and reply Benuser. In my relatively short time with the chosera, it seems to be pretty responsive to changes in pressure as far as how it cuts, and I'm thinking that going lightly with the 400 when needed can raise a small burr and move on without taking off too much steel.
Has this been your experience as well, or is it my imagination?

Despite my earlier statement, I'm still debating whether 400 or 600 really makes any practical difference? The 800 seems too similar to my JNS 1K so it's out. And the 2K or 3K probably makes even less of a difference, but I'm leaning towards 2K since I use only double bevels and mostly stainless. I have a couple strops to finish on for the knives that will benefit from it.

Benuser
05-13-2013, 08:51 AM
In my relatively short time with the chosera, it seems to be pretty responsive to changes in pressure as far as how it cuts, and I'm thinking that going lightly with the 400 when needed can raise a small burr and move on without taking off too much steel.
Has this been your experience as well, or is it my imagination?

It's no imagination, it depends on the steel's abrasion resistance. Some stainless have a great abrasion resistance. My own experience, essentially with carbon, is that even a few light strokes will eventually eat your blade.

About 2k or 3k: don't you think your JNS 1k will end up very close to the 2k? Perhaps Maxime can tell.

Chefdog
05-13-2013, 09:46 AM
[QUOTE=Benuser;206916]It's no imagination, it depends on the steel's abrasion resistance. Some stainless have a great abrasion resistance. My own experience, essentially with carbon, is that even a few light strokes will eventually eat your blade.

About 2k or 3k: don't you think your JNS 1k will end up very close to the 2k? Perhaps Maxime can tell.[/]

I guess with almost all stainless, this might not be as big of an issue for me.

As far as the JNS 1K, it and my JNS Aoto will be replaced with either the 2K or 3K chosera.

panda
05-13-2013, 01:00 PM
do you not like the JNS 1k? i'd like to replace my bester 1200 with a splash n go. i'll take it off your hands if you're selling it.

Chefdog
05-13-2013, 01:36 PM
do you not like the JNS 1k? i'd like to replace my bester 1200 with a splash n go. i'll take it off your hands if you're selling it.

I like it quite a bit, just trying to consolidate to two stones. It's fairly hard, cuts very quickly and is a bit thicker than most synthetic stones out there. I think it works best with a minute or two under the faucet as opposed to a 100% splash and go (like a shapton glass stone) but doesn't take much water after that.
Ill let you know when I let it go.

cwrightthruya
05-13-2013, 05:38 PM
I missed that you wanted a splash and go...apologies for that. I have used choseras, shaptons, sigmas, and gesshins in almost all grit ranges. I would say your best bet, with the specs you have given, if you want to do the 400/2k or 3k progression is to go Chosera.

They should give you almost exactly what you want...although I don't technically consider them splash and go because I soak mine for about a minute before use.

Regards,
Chris

panda
05-14-2013, 02:00 AM
i currently have JKS (from dave) 3k and i think a 1k splash n go to go along with it would be perfect two stone combo. any particular reason you are looking for a lower grit?