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MadMel
05-16-2013, 11:10 AM
Hi guys, I've been pondering the pros and cons of these methods of roasting a whole bird and would appreciate some insight here. Unfortunately, very few restaurants actually do a whole roast bird now.

So here are the few methods that interest me the most and if you have a better way, please share!

1. Thomas Keller, 450 deg preheated oven, dry, no stuffing, trussed, untouched.
2. Joel Robuchon, 400-410 deg cold oven, buttered, no stuffing, trussed, rotated.
3. Heston's, brined, stuffed w/ lemon n thyme, smothered in butter, untrussed, double roasted (195 till internal temp 140, then rested and returned to max heated oven to brown).

So far I've been following Chef Keller's recipe as it had always worked for me and it was the simplest in execution.

compaddict
05-16-2013, 11:32 AM
Rotisserie. S&P on the outside and a stick of butter on the inside.

chinacats
05-16-2013, 11:34 AM
I've been varying the recipe for this, but really like the idea of the 'splayed' chicken cooked in a cast iron skillet. The whole bird cooks at the same time every time.

http://www.nytimes.com/video/2012/05/04/dining/100000001526723/roasted-chicken.html

sachem allison
05-16-2013, 11:40 AM
500 degrees s&p stuffed with Cippolini onions and garlic

boomchakabowwow
05-16-2013, 11:51 AM
i hesitate to respond..all the pros in here humble me.

for a roasted bird, i'm kinda over brining. the bird gets that soggy and soft cooked flesh in the end. the texture just seems "wrong". IMHO.

i now just salt the bird all over, even under the skin in crucial spots..and let it sit wrapped over night. then pepper, butter and roast. i target 175 dark, 160 white. i truss so the wings and legs are not flopping around all exposed. i do go in halfway and flip the bird on the backside.

breaking the bird apart and roasting the parts in a big flat pan..i am liking also.

who is that chef that is known for his fire roasted bird with salsa verde?

mzer
05-16-2013, 12:16 PM
Trussed, on a spit, brushed with butter.

http://imageshack.us/a/img542/7904/dsc0003cy.jpg

bschwartzcooks
05-16-2013, 01:14 PM
brine 24 hours, hang 24 hours, sous vide with butter and thyme for 3 hours at 66 degrees centigrade, roast in 475 oven for 15 minutes.....ridiculous

toddnmd
05-16-2013, 01:15 PM
I heard this on NPR last month.

This recipe uses two cast iron skillets preheated in a hot oven, then the chicken is placed between them.

Haven't tried it yet, but it sounds good:
http://www.npr.org/2013/04/25/178670746/prepare-to-get-hot-and-heavy-with-this-chicken-recipe

cnochef
05-16-2013, 01:33 PM
Quality free-range hormone free bird = no brining necessary, spatchcocked (backbone removed and bird laid out flat) on roasting rack with butter under skin and Himalayan salt & fresh ground pepper (you can also add fresh thyme, garlic and Dijon to your liking), 3/4" thick cut yellow flesh potatoes underneath the rack in the pan to absorb the wonderful fat and juices, 400 degrees for approximately 45 minutes (even cooking and saves a lot of time as opposed to roasting whole).

WildBoar
05-16-2013, 01:44 PM
Lemon slices, chopped fresh herbs, some butter, salt and pepper under the skin; olive oil, salt and pepper on the outside; lemon wedges, salt pepper and bundle of fresh herbs in the cavity; roast at 425 deg F. For something different, just S&P, and encase exterior in bacon strips for the first ~40 minutes...

heirkb
05-16-2013, 01:58 PM
I've been doing a combo of a few recipes. Salt (a good amount) a few days in advance and let it sit in the fridge on a rack--though I wish I could hang it. That's from the Zuni Cafe. The skin gets really dry and darker (especially dark on a good quality well-raised chicken, in my experience). Rub a lot of room temp butter on the skin. Roast as in the Thomas Keller recipe, but leave un-trussed as Heston suggests.
I haven't really found any reason to ever stuff it, because it tastes so good as is. The only thing that would improve it for me would be to spit roast it.

mano
05-16-2013, 03:10 PM
Beer can or on a chicken stand. Rub the skin with S&P, garlic and herbs and stuff with fresh herbs and whatever fruit that's available. You pick the temp until done. Crispy skin and moist meat every time.

dharperino
05-16-2013, 03:44 PM
I too haven't tried the two cast iron skillet method but bought the cookbook and will try this at soon as possible. A friend tried it and was ecstatic about how fantastic the chicken turned out. The cookbook looks fantastic. Open Range is the title and the author is Jay Bentley.

dharperino
05-16-2013, 03:46 PM
Oops, here is a link for the cookbook: http://www.amazon.com/Open-Range-Steaks-Chops-Country/dp/0762441534/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1368733510&sr=8-4&keywords=open+range

wellminded1
05-16-2013, 04:12 PM
Eleven Madison Park style, mmmm. But Kellers recipe has always been my favorite and got to.

mzer
05-16-2013, 04:16 PM
It's probably a mistake to ascribe roast chicken methods to chefs and restaurants. It's a freaking roast chicken. My .02.

tkern
05-16-2013, 04:39 PM
Keller's method is solid as long as you have a 2.5# bird and brining is always a good call. People should brine more of their food. An easy chx brine: 1 liter water, 20g dextrose, 35g kosher salt. 24hrs in brine. let dry for 6 hrs then roast.

Dusty
05-16-2013, 08:19 PM
My favourite quick and easy method at home is similar to the two cast iron pan approach:
Butterfly the chicken, marinade in whatever you like and cook the whole bird in a sandwich press/panini grill. Super moist, super crisp skin and heaps of novelty value.

For a proper roast bird - I brine, dry and roast hard, and I'm not averse to barding the breasts.

At the restaurant: I break it down, cook the breasts sousvide at 65 for 70-80 minutes. Brine the legs, remove the thigh bone and skewer the skin together, poach off in court bouillon and then deep fry. Finish the breasts in a hot pan for skin crispness.

Mike9
05-16-2013, 09:45 PM
I like to dry my brined birds overnight on a rack in the ice box. Then I dry it really well and roast at a high temp. When I don't have time or space for brining I pretty much season, truss and roast.

Now that it's grill season I like to put a trussed bird on the top rack and smoke with apple or cherry.

mkmk
05-16-2013, 10:16 PM
I've gotten a bit tired of brining, too. I've done a couple that were rubbed liberally with kosher salt, and then rested uncovered in the fridge for a day or two before roasting, and those have been the best of all.

Andrew H
05-16-2013, 10:25 PM
Keller's method is solid as long as you have a 2.5# bird and brining is always a good call. People should brine more of their food. An easy chx brine: 1 liter water, 20g dextrose, 35g kosher salt. 24hrs in brine. let dry for 6 hrs then roast.

Any reason why it's dextrose (glucose) specifically? Just curious.

jgraeff
05-16-2013, 11:52 PM
Best way I have found is to brine for a few hours, then let sit on a rack in fridge until dry. About an hour before cooking take rack out salt liberally and let come to room temp. This will draw out any moisture left in the skin.

Crank oven to highest temp 550 if possible. Take orange juice and add a little water to it. Pour over the bird. Sprinkle with dried thyme, pepper.

Place In oven and drop temp to 400. Rotate every so often unless using convection oven.

Cook until it hits 145 and let rest then before serving return to a 550 oven to crisp skin.

We do ducks same way and were famous for it.

Salty dog
05-17-2013, 01:20 PM
Beer can chicken. Maybe not sophisticated enough for this crowd. Yeah, ask Thomas Keller how to roast a chicken? He must cook them at home.

ThEoRy
05-17-2013, 02:33 PM
For a 3.5# bird I wedge out a lemon, stuff thyme, garlic clove and the wedges in the bird, truss, season and roast it at 425 convection for 22-23 minutes to par cook for service. Just increase the cook time by idk maybe 5-6 min if you wanna take it all the way to done.

gic
05-17-2013, 02:34 PM
NY Times idea of using a lodge pan and splaying the bird. (By the way I bought a giant Lodge pan and tried the same idea for turkey, made the best and fastest Thanksgiving turkey in my many years of cooking for Thanksgiving, I'm just a amateur though..)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/09/dining/a-new-breed-of-roast-chicken-cast-iron-seared.html?_r=0

Lucretia
05-17-2013, 02:49 PM
I might have to try beer can chicken. Never had it, and there are so many good reviews. My biggest problem with roasting a chicken is that even though the thermometer says it's done, I always end up with bloody joints. Not in the meat, but in the joint. Then I don't trust it and have to stick things back in the oven and it dries out.

Our grocery store makes an excellent rotisserie chicken for basically the cost of the raw bird. It's a guilty pleasure--it's always good and there are no dishes to wash.

ThEoRy
05-17-2013, 03:41 PM
I might have to try beer can chicken. Never had it, and there are so many good reviews. My biggest problem with roasting a chicken is that even though the thermometer says it's done, I always end up with bloody joints. Not in the meat, but in the joint. Then I don't trust it and have to stick things back in the oven and it dries out.

Our grocery store makes an excellent rotisserie chicken for basically the cost of the raw bird. It's a guilty pleasure--it's always good and there are no dishes to wash.

We get complaints of... "The chicken was raw and inedible..!" No you stupid ***** it was just a thick vein in the thigh. It happens from time to time.

Salty dog
05-17-2013, 05:07 PM
If you don't know when a chicken is done..................well, the knife isn't the problem.

mr drinky
05-17-2013, 05:37 PM
I have to say that I have tried that Thomas Keller bird a few times and it doesn't impress me that much. It works, but it isn't that great IMO. I first saw it on a No Reservations episode and first tried it out a couple of years ago. The video is below. I think it is a good base, but it wasn't all that moist. It might be in the variation of birds I get locally -- I'm not sure.

Frankly, I can break down a bird and roast it in a way that will taste much better and guarantee being more moist, so I don't roast whole chickens much anymore. Maybe my mind will be changed with this thread. With that said, roasting a whole chicken also deprives you of the need to use a knife to break it down. It's always fun to play with toys.

k.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWLt6G85zC4

Edit: I will be the first to admit that TK would probably make an awesome bird every time, but I am not TK so I rely on techniques that compensate for my inadequacy.

ThEoRy
05-17-2013, 06:00 PM
If you don't know when a chicken is done..................well, the knife isn't the problem.


I've even heard once, "The chicken wasn't raw...... it just tasted raw."

Why the **** do you know what raw chicken tastes like you ******* **** *****!!

sw2geeks
05-17-2013, 06:14 PM
If I am in a hurry I just cut the chicken in half before roasting

http://media.dfw.com/smedia/2011/07/15/17/52/lOCpH.St.117.jpg

I fixed this chicken from start to on the table in under an hour (35 minutes total cook time), and I did not have to skimp on flavor.

First I preheat the oven to 400F, then rinsed and cut the chicken in half. I rubbed the halves with some garlic then seasoned them with salt and pepper on both sides. Put the chicken halves cut side down on some lemon slices in a roasting pan lined with parchment paper. Added some sliced red potato wedges and put some fresh thyme on top of both the chicken and the potatoes. Drizzled everything with olive oil and roast it in the oven for 35 minutes at 400F. Check to make sure the chicken is done with an instant read thermometer (160F in the thick part of the breast or thigh). Let it rest a few minutes and it is ready to serve. Yum!

Lucretia
05-17-2013, 09:58 PM
Well, I guess I will have to flagellate myself with a chicken neck to make up for bringing up bloody chicken. I didn't order it in your restaurant and complain about it being raw, I promise!

It's interesting how the line of what is "done" for chicken has changed. I grew up with chicken cooked until it was falling off the bones, no hint of any color except grey, and the bones were probably juicier than the meat. Seems like the standard back then was 180 degrees for "done" chicken, loose joint where the leg attached to the body, absolutely clear juices. There's been so much information pushed on the public about how eating underdone poultry is a health risk--it's the sort of things the media loves to cover in great detail--it's no wonder people are gun shy about underdone poultry. What isn't so broadly published is when food safety standards change. I was just looking at the US Department of Agriculture food safety site, where safe temperature for cooked chicken is 165 F. They even say some pink color to the meat & juices is ok as long as it reaches 165 degrees. This is a HUGE difference from what I was taught about cooking chicken--what's safe would have been considered too raw to eat back then.

I have to wonder how many of the guideline changes are triggered by the availability and accuracy of instant read thermometers. Don't know if some of you younger guys even remember the old analog meat thermometers--the resolution was horrible, and the accuracy probably wasn't much better. If the reading you got was within 5 degrees you were probably doing pretty good. Now you can take your instant read, jab the bird, and get an accurate temperature within fractions of a degree in a matter of seconds. Combine that accuracy with better information about what constitutes safe food, and there's been a big change in the last 30-40 years in what's an acceptable temperature for doneness.

And it would be hijacking the thread to go off on what's acceptable vs what I grew up with as safe temperatures for pork...

Anyway, I've done a little research and learned some new things, so maybe I'll try roasting a chicken at home again.

Notaskinnychef
05-17-2013, 10:51 PM
Brine for the win! Can't go wrong.

boomchakabowwow
05-17-2013, 11:06 PM
i think a roasted bird is the BEST first home cook date meal. i won my wife over with this. hahaha.

tkern
05-17-2013, 11:39 PM
Any reason why it's dextrose (glucose) specifically? Just curious.

Dextrose is found fairly commonly and dissolves very quick without having to boil the water to incorporate everything.

bieniek
05-19-2013, 04:57 PM
It's interesting how the line of what is "done" for chicken has changed. I grew up with chicken cooked until it was falling off the bones, no hint of any color except grey, and the bones were probably juicier than the meat. Seems like the standard back then was 180 degrees for "done" chicken, loose joint where the leg attached to the body, absolutely clear juices. There's been so much information pushed on the public about how eating underdone poultry is a health risk--it's the sort of things the media loves to cover in great detail--it's no wonder people are gun shy about underdone poultry. What isn't so broadly published is when food safety standards change. I was just looking at the US Department of Agriculture food safety site, where safe temperature for cooked chicken is 165 F. They even say some pink color to the meat & juices is ok as long as it reaches 165 degrees. This is a HUGE difference from what I was taught about cooking chicken--what's safe would have been considered too raw to eat back then.

I have to wonder how many of the guideline changes are triggered by the availability and accuracy of instant read thermometers. Don't know if some of you younger guys even remember the old analog meat thermometers--the resolution was horrible, and the accuracy probably wasn't much better. If the reading you got was within 5 degrees you were probably doing pretty good. Now you can take your instant read, jab the bird, and get an accurate temperature within fractions of a degree in a matter of seconds. Combine that accuracy with better information about what constitutes safe food, and there's been a big change in the last 30-40 years in what's an acceptable temperature for doneness.

And it would be hijacking the thread to go off on what's acceptable vs what I grew up with as safe temperatures for pork...

Anyway, I've done a little research and learned some new things, so maybe I'll try roasting a chicken at home again.

That youre talking about madame are just ure misinformation.

On the behalf of this Agriculture-thing. Chicken is considered dirty and in one book - an old one found info that chicken skin is filthy dirty and you have to destroy it with fire. I mean fry the shite out of it.
First question is, how do the bacterias move inside meat if theres no puncture/damage to the flesh? One way to do that is to contaminate the meat when youre cutting down the bird [skin--->hands--->flesh route]. Other is shooting a bird, as to the projectile moving all the dirty stuff.
In case the bacteria is indeed on the outside, a second on the frying pan heated to 200 degrees should kill them all.

The other question is when do the real pasteurization time-guides came out. You can safely eat chicken over 60 celsius, lets say. Some like it at 62, some 65, some cant stand the juice.
And just to mention, the pink left in the juice is just pigment. Not blood anyway. Chicken breast meat is white cause theres no mioglobin! no hemoglobin either, thats for sure.

But please bear in mind, Im not saying anything about slow cooking here. I actually think that anyway chick breast skin on tastes much better from the an and roasted at 180 than any form of "sous vide". If you can do that properly. You know I bought sous vide set just to check these types of things.
I hate what salt brines are making with chicken flesh. Its disgusting.

I did my iberico at 55 degrees for fourty hours and it was a hit, juiciness was there, but what about succulence? I think its better to roast it in 180 degrees drowned in oil.

As to the OP, I dry the chicken skin a little, stuff a little [not so its full] so the hot air can get in from the inside too. If you want you can stick a fork in each leg, it promotes heat distribution=enhances legs flavour.
Salt the skin heavily some hours before roasting, be generous with pepper too. and herbs. If you like it extra dark rub with oil honey mixture. Good quality bird will catch decent colour anyway