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View Full Version : Hypothetical knife choice.



mzer
05-22-2013, 03:36 PM
Rather than ask between a few known knives, I want to put down some characteristics, or at least how I see their characteristics after some testing, of two knives between which I am deciding. Given the comparisons, I would love to hear how you guys would decide.

Both are 240 gyutos...

Knife 1-
Wa handle
Carbon
Takes slightly sharper edge
Lighter
Reactive cladding
Taller blade

Knife 2-
Western handle
Carbon
Has a bit more durable edge
Light, but somewhat heavier
Stainless cladding
Faster working knife - hard to explain, some knives are just fast
Flatter edge

It may be a silly exercise, but it probably helps me clarify my thoughts. I'd like to know yours given a list of characteristics rather than a list of knives since feel and perception are so subjective.

Jmadams13
05-22-2013, 04:22 PM
If it was my line knife, #2, if prep beast or home, #1

Mainly based on cladding and retention.

Lefty
05-22-2013, 04:27 PM
Knife 2, though my next custom is going to be a carbon, western, 240-250 gyuto with a heel height of 58-60mm. Pierre already knows. :D

snowbrother
05-22-2013, 04:32 PM
I would go with #1. I prefer sharper over durability, but that's just me.

SpikeC
05-22-2013, 04:39 PM
It would depend on which one felt better in my hand and to work with.

Benuser
05-22-2013, 05:01 PM
Not so sure what you mean by a flatter edge. By the way, the whole sharpness notion is somewhat ambiguous: a very finely grained steel may produce a very sharp edge, but in kitchen use a slightly less polished edge with a coarser grained steel may be preferable.

mzer
05-22-2013, 05:05 PM
I probably shouldn't have mentioned their relative sharpnesses since they are so similar in that respect. The first is white one, the other is AS both very hard. The durability issue I mentioned was less in retention than in fragility. I haven't had chipping problems with the first, but it feels as though I will.

By flatter blade I mean shorter with a lower toe so there is less upsweep.

Point taken on the concept of sharpness. Thanks.

Lefty
05-22-2013, 05:09 PM
I agree with the sharpness argument, but four steels stick out to me as "crazy sharp-enable": white 1, white 2, AEB-L, 52100. I'm not one for putting tons of emphasis on steel type, assuming everything else is great (HT, geometry, etc), but I've never touched a knife that gets as sharp as my Carter, and the other three I mentioned get wickedly sharp in a hurry.

stevenStefano
05-22-2013, 05:22 PM
2 all day long. Sounds like a good knife for a pro

Korin_Mari
05-22-2013, 05:33 PM
2 if you're cooking in a commercial kitchen, and 1 if you're using it for a specific task that requires precision.

cclin
05-22-2013, 06:09 PM
#2 all the way except I'm more prefer wa-handle. I can't really feel white#1 has sharper edge than AS steel ; however, I can clearly notice AS has better edge retention & more aggressive toothy edge than white#1 When I use them side by side. moreover, food reactive is big issue for me!!

chinacats
05-23-2013, 12:10 AM
I'd put some lead tape on number 1 and call it a day. :knife:

DWells
05-23-2013, 12:42 AM
I would put V2 in that category of "crazy sharpenable" which makes this thread talking about my exact setup of two gyutos at work. I use my stainless clad, AS cored, western (hint hint) for cutting remoulade veg (pickles, onions, and celery). Surprisingly, the celery is what gives my carbon, iron-clad the most trouble, which I believe to be the salts in the veg juice, even more so than the pickles.

However, I use my iron-clad for every non-reactive task without fail. I do about 8-10q of julienne of carrot, and 4-6q of potato hair a week. The iron-clad beats the pants off of the stainless, in an unbelievably good way.

Still debating a stainless-wa though, I'll confess that I don't really need it, the AS laughs at acidity-induced edge-degradation.

franzb69
05-23-2013, 01:26 AM
#1 or you could have #2 thinned up real nice and still have that nice non-reactive cladding.

ChiliPepper
05-23-2013, 06:39 AM
Ahem...I would add SKD11 to the "wicked sharp" category...oh, and it happens to fall in the "lasting edge" category as well... :D. But this could degenerate the discussion real fast.
So I'd say no. 2 :)

Benuser
05-23-2013, 10:13 AM
If the AS is hardened without excess, I would say nr 2

DWells
05-23-2013, 11:41 AM
Get both. They make an ideal pair. What do you typically cut in a week?

Benuser
05-24-2013, 06:27 PM
Got the impression these knives are not that hypothetical. What are the mystery blades the OP had in mind?

mzer
05-25-2013, 09:24 AM
Got the impression these knives are not that hypothetical. What are the mystery blades the OP had in mind?

Yes, of course you are correct. I have both and will likely rid myself of one. Or put it away for awhile. Anyway, I figured if I said one was a Moritaka and the other a Masamoto* then people would decide based on their opinions of those two makes, not of the characteristics I am describing that come from a match of my style in sharpening and cutting and the particular knives in question.

* they aren't those brands, just for demonstration purposes.

rdpx
05-25-2013, 09:35 PM
Yes, of course you are correct. I have both and will likely rid myself of one.

you should probably keep the Hiromoto as they are running down production and you soon won't be able to buy one again...

EdipisReks
05-25-2013, 09:49 PM
Knife 2, though my next custom is going to be a carbon, western, 240-250 gyuto with a heel height of 58-60mm. Pierre already knows. :D

that'll be a big knife.

mzer
05-26-2013, 12:49 AM
you should probably keep the Hiromoto as they are running down production and you soon won't be able to buy one again...

Huh? I don't have a Hiramoto.

WiscoNole
05-26-2013, 01:49 AM
Honestly, I don't like either choice. I'd definitely prefer a combination of the 2, which is available.

panda
05-26-2013, 03:25 AM
get rid of both and find a better one that has the exact mix of characteristics that you are looking for. otherwise, choose which ever you feel is the better cutter (ie: easier for you to do the tasks you are using them for as ultimately that's what it comes down to, other things like absolute sharpness and edge retention are just minor details). if it's a must, i'd use #2. prefer wa handle but the blade itself is what's most important.

rdpx
05-26-2013, 06:35 PM
Huh? I don't have a Hiramoto.

sorry it sounded to me like you were talking about a Hiro AS for one of them there....

:O

Colorado_cutter
05-27-2013, 12:20 PM
I'd go with #1.

don
05-27-2013, 12:32 PM
#1 for me.

chuck239
05-28-2013, 10:01 PM
I'd probably go with number 2 because I don't love super light weight knives. So lets here what is what?? Then let's see who changes their vote. Or give us the characteristics and price range you want and let us see what we come up with..

-Chuck

tk59
05-29-2013, 01:41 AM
#2. The slightly sharper thing is pretty weak, IMO. I also don't love extra height on my blades in general.