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View Full Version : Shun blue steel Kiritsuke



welshstar
05-25-2013, 11:44 PM
Hi

Saw this knife and it looks interesting

http://shun.kaiusaltd.com/knives/knife/blue-kiritsuke


Anyone got first hand experience ?

Alan

Justin0505
05-26-2013, 12:41 AM
I believe Jon of JKI got to see a few of those very early on. I'm sure they are like any of the other "special" shun: very good F&F, materials, etc. Showy aesthetic / design and a premium price.
IMO, it looks cool and I'm excited to see stainless clad carbon steel go "mainstream," but I really hate it when mfg's put that fake sandblasted kasumi finish on a their knives.

Gravy Power
05-26-2013, 12:50 AM
I think they're trying to appeal to folks like us. They seem legit, but sorry Shun, I'm sticking to my tried and true vedors.

WiscoNole
05-26-2013, 01:10 AM
I think they're trying to appeal to folks like us. They seem legit, but sorry Shun, I'm sticking to my tried and true vedors.

My thoughts exactly. Shuns just don't have the same mystique.

panda
05-26-2013, 03:42 AM
that looks pretty freaking cool!

Chuckles
05-26-2013, 11:43 AM
I've sharpened one for one of my cooks. Hefty knife. Didn't uncover any grind issues and it took a great edge. f&f very good but aesthetically unappealing to me. Felt like an fj cruiser or a new dodge charger. Recognizable as the same make but the proportions and organic feel just off a bit for me.

ThEoRy
05-26-2013, 02:46 PM
I've sharpened one for one of my cooks. Hefty knife. Didn't uncover any grind issues and it took a great edge. f&f very good but aesthetically unappealing to me. Felt like an fj cruiser or a new dodge charger. Recognizable as the same make but the proportions and organic feel just off a bit for me.

My 07 Charger is sad now....

labor of love
05-26-2013, 03:24 PM
I've sharpened one for one of my cooks. Hefty knife. Didn't uncover any grind issues and it took a great edge. f&f very good but aesthetically unappealing to me. Felt like an fj cruiser or a new dodge charger. Recognizable as the same make but the proportions and organic feel just off a bit for me.
DId it feel like any other blue steel on the stones? i really havent enjoyed sharpening my friends sg2 and vg10 shuns, and im not sure whether or not to blame the experience on the steel or the shun heat treat.

brainsausage
05-26-2013, 07:38 PM
DId it feel like any other blue steel on the stones? i really havent enjoyed sharpening my friends sg2 and vg10 shuns, and im not sure whether or not to blame the experience on the steel or the shun heat treat.

I've never had a good experience sharpening my buddies Shuns. They feel 'greasy' on the stones...

Gravy Power
05-26-2013, 08:15 PM
The line of knives comes from Chris Cosentino, who's been endorsing Shun's for awhile now. They make a Honuseki and a Hankotsu (which they just call a utility/butchery knife). But seriously, *** is this?

http://shun.kaiusaltd.com/knives/knife/blue-menkiri

Maybe I'm nieve but as a professional cook, what in god's name am I supposed to do with it? And for $313.

bkultra
05-26-2013, 08:19 PM
The line of knives comes from Chris Cosentino, who's been endorsing Shun's for awhile now. They make a Honuseki and a Hankotsu (which they just call a utility/butchery knife). But seriously, *** is this?

http://shun.kaiusaltd.com/knives/knife/blue-menkiri

Maybe I'm nieve but as a professional cook, what in god's name am I supposed to do with it? And for $313.

That knife is for making noodles

Pensacola Tiger
05-26-2013, 08:20 PM
The line of knives comes from Chris Cosentino, who's been endorsing Shun's for awhile now. They make a Honuseki and a Hankotsu (which they just call a utility/butchery knife). But seriously, *** is this?

http://shun.kaiusaltd.com/knives/knife/blue-menkiri

Maybe I'm nieve but as a professional cook, what in god's name am I supposed to do with it? And for $313.

Cut noodles, except that it's too short.

"To make soba or udon the dough is flattened and folded, and then cut with the menkiri bocho to produce long rectangular noodles."

Gravy Power
05-26-2013, 08:24 PM
Cut noodles, except that it's too short.

"To make soba or udon the dough is flattened and folded, and then cut with the menkiri bocho to produce long rectangular noodles."


So now I know. But how many people in Shun's (edit: including us) target audience make their own soba noodles?

stereo.pete
05-26-2013, 08:27 PM
NM, question about the soba knife already answered.

labor of love
05-26-2013, 08:31 PM
So now I know. But how many people in Shun's (edit: including us) target audience make their own soba noodles?

Shun makes plenty of goofy looking knives with no purpose at all. Maybe a noodle knife gives them "street cred"

Crothcipt
05-26-2013, 08:57 PM
If you think that is weird you should seen some of the ones in Japan. Shun is just trying to expand its line.

Lefty
05-26-2013, 09:17 PM
Jon might be the best person to answer this, though I could be wrong: does a knife that cuts fresh dove noodles need a blue steel core? I mean, how sharp and acute does the edge really need to be. In my experience, I just use...well...anything.

Crothcipt
05-26-2013, 09:25 PM
Some of the utube vids. Eamon (I think ) posted last year I would say yes. That guy had like 120 layers.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOIsmzSzWpU

Imagine that edge going dull, no thank you. btw this isn't the one I was thinking of.

Pensacola Tiger
05-26-2013, 09:29 PM
Jon might be the best person to answer this, though I could be wrong: does a knife that cuts fresh dove noodles need a blue steel core? I mean, how sharp and acute does the edge really need to be. In my experience, I just use...well...anything.

The menkiri in this video looks to be pretty sharp, and the Monzaburo that aframestokyo sells is white #2.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltnij-In4Wo

Lefty
05-26-2013, 09:40 PM
Ohhhhh. Now I see. :) I was picturing more like making Italian noodles. This is quite different. Actually, it's just smarter. That kinda blew my mind.

cclin
05-26-2013, 09:52 PM
Jon might be the best person to answer this, though I could be wrong: does a knife that cuts fresh dove noodles need a blue steel core? I mean, how sharp and acute does the edge really need to be. In my experience, I just use...well...anything.
yes, every snigle noodle need to be same wide...try that with your gyuto or Nakiri
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOrqIFJTwdc

SpikeC
05-26-2013, 09:53 PM
Cut short noodles.

Lefty
05-26-2013, 09:56 PM
I just read my post and I don't know what dove noodles are.

Pensacola Tiger
05-26-2013, 10:04 PM
Cut short noodles.

:rofl2:

And at 9.75 oz, it's not heavy enough, either.

welshstar
05-27-2013, 12:47 AM
Can we get back on track, for a street price of $249 the listed knife looks good value

just curious if anyone has actually used one

labor of love
05-27-2013, 02:09 AM
Can we get back on track, for a street price of $249 the listed knife looks good value

just curious if anyone has actually used one
just so you know, you could get a tanaka for about $80 less in blue steel and a zakuri for 60-70 less also in blue 1. oh yeah, the yoshihiro store on ebay offers a blue kurouchi gyuto for alot less as well, i could go on and on...if youre looking at stainless clad carbon check out itonomon at JNS http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/Itinomonn-Kitchen-Knives-s/1878.htm
theres no way i would buy something like this without trying it out first to make sure that its a comfortable knife to use. sorry, i havent used one myself but i wouldnt mind testing one. considering shuns track record, i would be skeptical:my2cents:

Saccogoo
05-27-2013, 04:49 PM
just so you know, you could get a tanaka for about $80 less in blue steel and a zakuri for 60-70 less also in blue 1. oh yeah, the yoshihiro store on ebay offers a blue kurouchi gyuto for alot less as well, i could go on and on...if youre looking at stainless clad carbon check out itonomon at JNS http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/Itinomonn-Kitchen-Knives-s/1878.htm
theres no way i would buy something like this without trying it out first to make sure that its a comfortable knife to use. sorry, i havent used one myself but i wouldnt mind testing one. considering shuns track record, i would be skeptical:my2cents:

Well, theoretically, he was inquiring about the kiritsuke versus a gyuto or some other style of knife in blue steel.

Now, I'm not sure if the Shun piece is a traditional kiritsuke possessing the single bevel versus what you would find on, say, Takeda's or Moritaka's or most of the products being offered as "kiritsukes", which are simply sword tipped shaped gyutos. However, in looking at the Shun unit, I'm inclined to believe that it's a double bevel and it does possess a gentle upsweep at the forward 1/3 of the blade, so it's really not what one would consider a functioning "true" kiritsuke, either as a traditional single bevel or double bevel gyuto type.

The one comparative piece that comes to mind is the Takayuki Grand Cheff 260mm kiritsuke in the AEB-L Swedish stainless steel, which can be found for approximately the same street price as the Shun Blue item, with the Takayuki being a traditional single bevel blade. Most of the other true kiritsukes are pretty pricey from what I've seen, running in the neighborhood of $350+. As well, true single bevel Japanese kiritsukes possess a much narrower profile than what people expect from a main usage chef knife. I don't know if a short profiled, long, single bevel knife is what a lot of us Westerners would pick up first in the kitchen to do most of our work with.

I personally use a 240 mm kiritsuke styled gyuto quite a bit, nearly on a daily basis in the kitchen. I've found that it's a pretty well rounded knife in terms of rapidly transitioning from a veggie prep blade to protein slicer. The flatter profile takes some getting used to, but I enjoy it even when I'm doing a lot of prep work on veggies or slicing a bunch of protein. (I did have to remove the forge slag kurouchi finish to have it be more effective when working with proteins and the 240mm length isn't enough on the larger cuts of meat, which usually has me switching over to a 300mm pro-style Shun slicer as the rounded tip prevents me from constantly inserting a sharp point into my left hand when I'm booking through 200 flanks or tenderloins.)

And I'm not sure what you mean by Shun's "track record." Other than attempting to appeal to a wider range of potential customers and subsequently bringing more people into the concept and usage of traditional Japanese style blades/steels, I don't see the reason for the stated skepticism. I've enjoyed some of their products a lot (the previously mentioned 300mm pro slicer and their bread knife are excellent). No, they aren't hand made, but a lot of people will take consistency and quality over exclusivity.

However, to answer the OP's original question:

A 250mm kiritsuke style gyuto in blue steel that has a mirror polished stainless cladding, a wa handle, potentially very good to excellent fit and finish and an accompanying saya for $250? Sounds pretty good to me.

Chuckles
05-27-2013, 05:06 PM
My 07 Charger is sad now....

I had a feeling I might be hearing from you on that one. :)

To clarify, I like the knife and I like dodge chargers but I just know if I was actually out shopping I wouldn't come home with either of them.

If I could be even half as picky with cars as I am with knives....

The shun was comparable on the stones to the few other blue steel knives I've played with (tanaka, moritaka). By far the best shun I've handled.

This thread is making want to look into Kiritsukes now.

snowbrother
05-27-2013, 05:38 PM
I hate shuns, I loathe them. But I actually like the profile of that knife. I prefer a kiritsuke over a gyuto in general, thinner, better control and more dexterity. But I wouldn't go with a shun if that is what you are looking for. There are better makers with kiritsukes at a comparable price to that. I can't really think of any in blue steel off the top of my head as I try to avoid it, I'm not a fan of blue.

labor of love
05-27-2013, 05:57 PM
Well, theoretically, he was inquiring about the kiritsuke versus a gyuto or some other style of knife in blue steel.

Now, I'm not sure if the Shun piece is a traditional kiritsuke possessing the single bevel versus what you would find on, say, Takeda's or Moritaka's or most of the products being offered as "kiritsukes", which are simply sword tipped shaped gyutos. However, in looking at the Shun unit, I'm inclined to believe that it's a double bevel and it does possess a gentle upsweep at the forward 1/3 of the blade, so it's really not what one would consider a functioning "true" kiritsuke, either as a traditional single bevel or double bevel gyuto type.

The one comparative piece that comes to mind is the Takayuki Grand Cheff 260mm kiritsuke in the AEB-L Swedish stainless steel, which can be found for approximately the same street price as the Shun Blue item, with the Takayuki being a traditional single bevel blade. Most of the other true kiritsukes are pretty pricey from what I've seen, running in the neighborhood of $350+. As well, true single bevel Japanese kiritsukes possess a much narrower profile than what people expect from a main usage chef knife. I don't know if a short profiled, long, single bevel knife is what a lot of us Westerners would pick up first in the kitchen to do most of our work with.

I personally use a 240 mm kiritsuke styled gyuto quite a bit, nearly on a daily basis in the kitchen. I've found that it's a pretty well rounded knife in terms of rapidly transitioning from a veggie prep blade to protein slicer. The flatter profile takes some getting used to, but I enjoy it even when I'm doing a lot of prep work on veggies or slicing a bunch of protein. (I did have to remove the forge slag kurouchi finish to have it be more effective when working with proteins and the 240mm length isn't enough on the larger cuts of meat, which usually has me switching over to a 300mm pro-style Shun slicer as the rounded tip prevents me from constantly inserting a sharp point into my left hand when I'm booking through 200 flanks or tenderloins.)

And I'm not sure what you mean by Shun's "track record." Other than attempting to appeal to a wider range of potential customers and subsequently bringing more people into the concept and usage of traditional Japanese style blades/steels, I don't see the reason for the stated skepticism. I've enjoyed some of their products a lot (the previously mentioned 300mm pro slicer and their bread knife are excellent). No, they aren't hand made, but a lot of people will take consistency and quality over exclusivity.

However, to answer the OP's original question:

A 250mm kiritsuke style gyuto in blue steel that has a mirror polished stainless cladding, a wa handle, potentially very good to excellent fit and finish and an accompanying saya for $250? Sounds pretty good to me.

really, i cant tell if the op was interested in the shun because a) it has a kiritsuke tip or b) its made of blue steel or c) its stainless cladding
i listed knives with better track records and in the case of zakuri and itinomonn much better customer support and that are much cheaper
i think you will find plenty of skepticism around here concerning shuns heat treat track record and inherent difficulty in sharpening both its vg10 lines and sg2 lines. FWIW, i sharpen knives from both of these steels by this maker for my friends all the time, it can be done, but as a knife knut i must say i dont enjoy it. but if that isnt the case with this blue steel line, well then good for you guys maybe shun is taking a step in the right direction.
if you want a stainless clad, blue steel, kiritsuke tipped, massed produced chef knife that comes with a saya for $249 then please by all means accept no other substitute and go with the shun blue steel. I was only attempting to demonstrate there are other fish in the sea.

Saccogoo
05-27-2013, 07:08 PM
really, i cant tell if the op was interested in the shun because a) it has a kiritsuke tip or b) its made of blue steel or c) its stainless cladding
i listed knives with better track records and in the case of zakuri and itinomonn much better customer support and that are much cheaper
i think you will find plenty of skepticism around here concerning shuns heat treat track record and inherent difficulty in sharpening both its vg10 lines and sg2 lines. FWIW, i sharpen knives from both of these steels by this maker for my friends all the time, it can be done, but as a knife knut i must say i dont enjoy it. but if that isnt the case with this blue steel line, well then good for you guys maybe shun is taking a step in the right direction.
if you want a stainless clad, blue steel, kiritsuke tipped, massed produced chef knife that comes with a saya for $249 then please by all means accept no other substitute and go with the shun blue steel. I was only attempting to demonstrate there are other fish in the sea.

No need to get testy. And it wasn't me that attempted to derail the OP's initial inquiry with the defacto "I think Shun sucks because too many people own them so buy this esoteric brand instead" response one typically sees around here.

And since I'm not overly familiar with the "heat treat track record" of the Shuns, perhaps you could provide more detail in terms of why the heat treat issue is such a problem that you would dissuade the OP from looking at the product in question and going with another brand. (As a side inquiry, is this "heat treat" issue that you specify the reason why Shun went to the VG Max steel versus it's original Takefu VG-10? Would this "heat treat issue" adversely affect their blue steel offerings in the same manner as you feel it affects their VG-10 and SG2 knives? I haven't seen a white paper or other such things from Shun in terms of their methodology of tempering their blades, so if you could provide some insight to this perhaps it would help the OP in determining if this knife is the correct choice for their use. What procedure do they use for their previous VG-10 products that is so bad and is it the same method used on this newer "Blue" line?)

Or is it simply a sharpening issue that you have with the Shun's steel? Do you use natural stones or synthetics when you sharpen? I've found that synthetics such as the Shapton Glass stones that I use don't have much of a problem in sharpening the powdered steel blades or the higher hardness stainless stuff such as VG-10. I do know that my Miyabi with VG-10 steel is "different" in terms of how it feels/works on a stone versus my Shuns, but I am not familiar with the differences in the tempering procedure between the two makers. I also feel that there is a difference in terms of ease of sharpening as well as subsequent edge holding between the Shun steels that I have (two listed as "Cobalt MV Steel", two listed as "VG-10 Clad" and one listed as "VG Max.") Perhaps it is simply a natural progression in terms of a product and it's growth based on a time based application in a real world environment.

For the price, the knife in question (Shun Blue Kiritsuke) seems to be a pretty decent product all things considered. Obviously there is a plethora of alternatives in aogami #2 steel (not to mention #1 and AS) if you were simply to include all gyuto type knifes, but when you get into the kiritsuke style, you are going to be limiting your choices. Takeda and Moritaka offer them in AS, Suisin has one in an Inox Honyaki and another in shirogami #1 (that Densho 240 kiritsuke at JKI is hella nice), but all of those are in the $300 and going up quickly price range.

While the Shun seems to be a pretty decent offering all things considered, if the OP wanted another option, the Takayuki stuff is nice. The 17 layer Damascus Kiritsuke they have uses VG-10 and is a double bevel similar to the Shun with a street price of approximately $190.:

http://www.paulsfinest.com/images/D/7233.jpg

bkultra
05-27-2013, 07:30 PM
No need to get testy. And it wasn't me that attempted to derail the OP's initial inquiry with the defacto "I think Shun sucks because too many people own them so buy this esoteric brand instead" response one typically sees around here.


The reason many (not just here) do not like Shun for is far different from what you have listed... First it's not viewed as a very good value. You can almost always find something better in the same price range. Next is the profile is typically German (far more belly and heft), it just happens to be made in Japan. Lastly their steel is not that great, chips and feels like crap on the stones.

Keep in mind their are exceptions, their pairing knife is well reviewed.

labor of love
05-27-2013, 07:35 PM
You're taking this way too personally. Please realize that I'm not condemning shuns by any means. I do not know the ends and outs of heat treating but I do know heat treats indeed vary from maker to maker and there is better feeling vg10 on the market along with sg2. Ill have to check next time i sharpen some of the shuns at work, but i highly doubt vgmax or whatever is any easier to sharpen. By better I mean they feel better on the stones. Clearly your very happy with your shun blue and I'm happy for you. I never implied shuns suck because too many people own them. I'm simply urging the OP to consider all his options. This a forum for discussion, where people can share their experiences with one another and that in a nutshell is simply what I'm doing, hence the "my 2 cents". The perfect knife for one person isn't going to be the perfect knife for everyone, all I did is explain why I wouldn't buy a shun blue steel atleast until I tried it, beyond that I admitted I haven't tried it yet so clearly I'm basing my point of view with past experiences with shun, THUS ADMITTING my own ignorance of the shun blue steel line.
Again, it's not about you or me, lets focus on the knife and move this conversation forward.

panda
05-27-2013, 07:56 PM
please be the guinea pig and try this out for us! if i had a kiritsuke i'd even offer to let you borrow it for comparison.

snowbrother
05-27-2013, 07:58 PM
The reason many (not just here) do not like Shun for is far different from what you have listed... First it's not viewed as a very good value. You can almost always find something better in the same price range. Next is the profile is typically German (far more belly and heft), it just happens to be made in Japan. Lastly their steel is not that great, chips and feels like crap on the stones.

Keep in mind their are exceptions, their pairing knife is well reviewed.

The boning knife they make in their classic line is actually quite nice as well. I love the shape of that knife. I would like to eventually get a vendor here to make me one in a better steel with ta very similar shape.

welshstar
05-28-2013, 12:54 AM
Hi

You have a link for somewhere i can look at buying one of these ?


While the Shun seems to be a pretty decent offering all things considered, if the OP wanted another option, the Takayuki stuff is nice. The 17 layer Damascus Kiritsuke they have uses VG-10 and is a double bevel similar to the Shun with a street price of approximately $190.:

welshstar
05-28-2013, 12:57 AM
OOps

It seems to be listed as a yanagiba, therefore im assuming a single bevel, is that correct ?

I like the profile and the hammered damascus

Im just looking for good stainless kiritsuke shape as a workhorse knife, i have lots of other things and im also looking for a new high end special knife