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Cnimativ
05-21-2011, 03:09 AM
According to Takeda's literature, his handheld sharpening stone are WA1200 and C800. Presumably that is the grit rating? Or can someone help decipher those numbers?

I am in the process to find new sharpening stone. I can produce an edge that slices nicely through printer papers most of the time with My good old el cheapo stone from local market. But it feels rough when I slice newspaper; either my knife doesnt bite well or just not sharp enough. Any suggestions?

JohnnyChance
05-21-2011, 03:32 AM
Do you de-burr?

JBroida
05-21-2011, 03:45 AM
wa1200= white alumina (the abrasive type) at 1200 grit
c800= silicon carbide (the abrasive type) at 800 grit

Thats my best guess

Cnimativ
05-21-2011, 04:01 AM
Do you de-burr?

Yes, just simple and stupid stroping on the finer side of the stone and then a few slices on cork.

Cnimativ
05-21-2011, 04:09 AM
wa1200= white alumina (the abrasive type) at 1200 grit
c800= silicon carbide (the abrasive type) at 800 grit

Thats my best guess

Ah that make sense. I guess that wont produce a razor like edge then... Maybe i should just get king or geshin 1k/6k

JohnnyChance
05-21-2011, 04:17 AM
Some better stones and something to keep them flat would make a world of difference for you I think.

Lefty
05-21-2011, 10:42 AM
Yeah, grab a decent stone or two and your results will be much better.
When I deburr in cork, I slice with a slight twist back and forth to make sure I get the burr. If it comes down to it, take a jeweler's loupe and see if you have a nice v shaped bevel. If there's a bit of a hanger, flip it and deburr again.
Sounds like you're well on your way to scary sharp territory :)

Pensacola Tiger
05-21-2011, 10:48 AM
According to Takeda's literature, his handheld sharpening stone are WA1200 and C800. Presumably that is the grit rating? Or can someone help decipher those numbers?

I am in the process to find new sharpening stone. I can produce an edge that slices nicely through printer papers most of the time with My good old el cheapo stone from local market. But it feels rough when I slice newspaper; either my knife doesnt bite well or just not sharp enough. Any suggestions?

Slicing through paper tells you something about the edge, but slicing through the food you will prepare with the knife tells you more. How does your edge perform when you use it for its intended purpose?

SpikeC
05-21-2011, 03:12 PM
I believe that Takeda has 2 different stone setups, and one is finer than the 800/1200.

Cnimativ
05-21-2011, 05:08 PM
Slicing through paper tells you something about the edge, but slicing through the food you will prepare with the knife tells you more. How does your edge perform when you use it for its intended purpose?

The quest is to better my tools and technique to take my edge to another level previously unexperienced. And in the current moment, I think I am limited by my generic two sided stone.

But in terms of usability, it works. But it could be sharper to have its weight clean cut green onion, etc, instead of crushing and slice.

Cnimativ
05-22-2011, 12:40 AM
BTW, what is a good stone for AS steel at 1,000 and 6,000 grit?

Dave Martell
05-22-2011, 01:00 AM
AS doesn't like to move for mid-grit stones, a mistake is to use something too fine to get started with so I'd vote for something coarser than 1k for the low end.

MadMel
05-22-2011, 01:10 AM
AS is kinda hard haha. I have to use a 500 as my starting stone on my Hiromoto AS The rest of the stones are kinda like clean-up stones.

Lefty
05-22-2011, 10:11 AM
Dave, this is along the same lines. I haven't used white steel yet, and I have bot white 1 and 2 on their way to me. What stone is a good "starting stone" with whites?
So far, 1k is doing a perfect job on my Swedish steels (carbon and stainless).
Thanks, D-Mizzle!

Dave Martell
05-22-2011, 10:58 AM
Dave, this is along the same lines. I haven't used white steel yet, and I have bot white 1 and 2 on their way to me. What stone is a good "starting stone" with whites?
So far, 1k is doing a perfect job on my Swedish steels (carbon and stainless).
Thanks, D-Mizzle!


Well I guess I'd suggest the same starting point no matter what steel you're sharpening, just that AS forces you to deal with it whereas the others often allow you to get by with a 1k to start, even if that 1k is simply not doing as good a job as a coarser stone would do in setting the bevel.

Cnimativ
05-22-2011, 04:27 PM
Well I guess I'd suggest the same starting point no matter what steel you're sharpening, just that AS forces you to deal with it whereas the others often allow you to get by with a 1k to start, even if that 1k is simply not doing as good a job as a coarser stone would do in setting the bevel.

So I guess for typical home cooks, the Takeda stone at 800/1200 is good enough to start? And perhaps adding another 5k+ grit stone to finish?

Dave Martell
05-22-2011, 05:07 PM
So I guess for typical home cooks, the Takeda stone at 800/1200 is good enough to start? And perhaps adding another 5k+ grit stone to finish?


Depends, pick a fast wearing and/or slow cutting 800x and you won't be having any fun. The numbers mean almost nothing really, it's how a stone works that's of importance. If you're intent on getting the Takeda stone then you need to find out from someone who has one how it works.

dreamsignals
05-23-2011, 01:04 PM
not meaning to hijack the thread - regarding differences between same grit stones:

dave (martell), can you elaborate on what you say on the JKS website, that you'd start a sharpening session with a bester 1000 or 1200 but not with a king?

thanks!

Cadillac J
05-23-2011, 01:41 PM
But in terms of usability, it works. But it could be sharper to have its weight clean cut green onion, etc, instead of crushing and slice.

Usability versus a proper sharp edge are two completely different things. I could take my ma's dullest knife and probably still get the job done, but it wouldn't be pretty.

Green onion ends should easily be able to be cut without really changing their hollow shape and definitely without flattening them out---your cutting board should not be a necessity for the cut, as in this case it is leveraged for a 'pinch cut' between the edge pressing down against it. Not criticizing here...just trying to explain how a good edge should cut, and what to shoot for.




Dave, this is along the same lines. I haven't used white steel yet, and I have bot white 1 and 2 on their way to me. What stone is a good "starting stone" with whites?
So far, 1k is doing a perfect job on my Swedish steels (carbon and stainless).
Thanks, D-Mizzle!

Start with your coarsest to set your bevel and work your way up. Chosera 600 and Bester 1200 are money with white#2 as far as coarse/medium stones go...and don't even get me started on how Naniwa SS feel with white#2--heaven.

Silas
05-23-2011, 01:48 PM
AS doesn't like to move for mid-grit stones, a mistake is to use something too fine to get started with so I'd vote for something coarser than 1k for the low end.

Thanks for the tip, Dave! (and MarTel) I have the Takeda Banno Bunka and the Hiro AS and found that the higher end stones were not really doing a great job, as I started with the 6000 I got from you.

Now I see I can and will go to lower grit.....500 Bester, then follow with 1200 Beston.

This info was a GREAT help!

Mitch

Dave Martell
05-23-2011, 01:57 PM
not meaning to hijack the thread - regarding differences between same grit stones:

dave (martell), can you elaborate on what you say on the JKS website, that you'd start a sharpening session with a bester 1000 or 1200 but not with a king?

thanks!


There's a a first time sharpening session with a knife and then a routine maintenance sharpening session with a knife. Once you've created your bevel with a coarse stone (sub 1k) then it's easy to follow up later on with a 1k stone, however, some 1k stones (IMO - like the King) cut way too slow and dish way too fast which then allows for multi-facets to be cut on the bevel (AKA - bevel rounding) and cause problems. So what I advise is to look for fast cutting stones at the lower levels.

Dave Martell
05-23-2011, 01:59 PM
Thanks for the tip, Dave! (and MarTel) I have the Takeda Banno Bunka and the Hiro AS and found that the higher end stones were not really doing a great job, as I started with the 6000 I got from you.

Now I see I can and will go to lower grit.....500 Bester, then follow with 1200 Beston.

This info was a GREAT help!

Mitch


Many, many, many people go for the higher grit stones first but I've found the magic to be what the coarser stones do for you. If you don;t get this right then the higher grit stones do nothing for you.

dreamsignals
05-23-2011, 02:00 PM
There's a a first time sharpening session with a knife and then a routine maintenance sharpening session with a knife. Once you've created your bevel with a coarse stone (sub 1k) then it's easy to follow up later on with a 1k stone, however, some 1k stones (IMO - like the King) cut way too slow and dish way too fast which then allows for multi-facets to be cut on the bevel (AKA - bevel rounding) and cause problems. So what I advise is to look for fast cutting stones at the lower levels.

got it. on that note, how do you (and others) feel about the shapton pro 1000?

Cadillac J
05-23-2011, 02:45 PM
There's a a first time sharpening session with a knife and then a routine maintenance sharpening session with a knife.

As common as this seems for most of us, I think a lot of people newer to sharpening might not realize this concept.

Once I get a new knife, my own bevels are set immediately starting at a 600 grit and working up in my progression. From this point on, stropping on leather and touching up on a 5K polishing stone is all you need as a home cook as far as maintenance is concerned for a good while...dropping down to 1200 or even back to the coarser 600 is only needed when: the edge isn't getting back to where I want it after strop/polishing stones, I want to thin the bevel shoulders a bit, or I want to regrind new bevels like the very first time.

Lefty
05-23-2011, 02:45 PM
Caddy, I'll keep that in mind!
It's nuts how differently every steel responds to different stones. To be honest, my King stone is great on my Swedish steels, but the fact that some people will actually stop at 1-1.2k blows my mind!

Cadillac J
05-23-2011, 02:48 PM
For my honesuki and Global G-2 beater, a 1200 edge is perfect. I actually like to refine a bit at 5K, then drop down to the Bester to re-add some bite...I find that works really well.

Lefty
05-23-2011, 02:52 PM
I can see the 5k, then add some toothiness with some slight roughing up on a 1.2k. I'm assuming it's very light roughing up, though?
I do something really similar with my stainless. I work up to 1500 wet/dry (wet), then use a dry piece for some bite. It's McMoney in a kitchen setting!
With my carbons, however, I definitely like some polish, as they don't become "slippery" once refined on high grit.
By the way, this thread is getting wicked. I hope everyone is drinking in the goodness!

jackslimpson
05-23-2011, 04:29 PM
I'll throw in my two cents on my experience with the Takeda handheld 800/1200. Because the technique is to lay the blade flat against a piece of flat wood, then scrub the blade at the desired angle, I've gotten my best results with small blades and paring knives. Laying it flat against the wood adds rigidity, which gives me more control. I've restored some of my small knives to common use with it, where before they were just clutter. The handheld also lets me work on the tips of my larger knives where I am weakest in my sharpening skills. I can use the takeda to get very precise results.

Cheers,

Jack