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karloevaristo
06-12-2013, 02:09 AM
Been away for a while, I just noticed that Carter prices have gone up since I last checked... And the difference I've seen are the handles... I guess with a lot of people who gave not so good comments about his handles, he decided not to even offer the ebony and ho-wood handles anymore (that's for the high grade series anyway).

$551 for a 7 1/2 inch funayuki? that's almost $200 more since I last checked. Is this happening for all other knife makers? or is a supply and demand kind of thing?

Karlo

marc4pt0
06-12-2013, 05:45 AM
it's my understanding that steel prices in general are going up. plus with Carter no longer taking custom orders ( in fact I believe he canceled on a lengthy list of customers in waiting) hid prices took an almost immediate hike.
I'm wondering if that means those who have a Carter will be able to get a bigger return if selling it now...

karloevaristo
06-12-2013, 03:09 PM
I'm wondering if that means those who have a Carter will be able to get a bigger return if selling it now...

Good question... I think so... Better hold on to my carter... Cause lookin at it now, my knife's value will double in probably a year's time... Crazy...

bkdc
06-25-2013, 05:36 PM
The only thing that bugs me is the premium paid for those handles. Otherwise, we all have to deal with or face up to the costs of running a business.

Justin0505
06-25-2013, 06:04 PM
Supply and demand. When he sells out of every knife he makes in very little time, that means that he can charge more. The handles perhaps help to "justify" the price a bit more, but I'm sure that the extra time and materials involved in making them does not come close to the extra price.

I appreciate that he's made some tough decisions like dedicating himself to just 1 type of steel and now to one type of production (producing batches only; no 1-off customs). He's said that he feels that this type of narrowed focus and specialization makes allows him to develop a higher level of mastery. It also means that more people will have a chance to own one of his knives; which is better for us... or would be if the new pricing didn't put them very near to the cost of a full custom from other makers. Agree or disagree with his feelings and business practices, I like the guy and wish him success. Sadly though, I don't really care for the new "high grade handles" (or not enough to justify the price), for the money I'd rather have someone from Mr. Keller or some of the other talented folks on here... and I kinda feel the same way about the blades at this point too.

AndyBillipp
06-26-2013, 07:27 AM
I suppose it's either raise prices a bit every year, to coincide with inflation, cost of living, and the price of materials, or wait a few years and then hike them.
Either way, prices will go up over time. I would certainly expect a raise or promotion after working for the same company for a few years, I'd say Murray deserves it.

Crothcipt
06-26-2013, 03:10 PM
I got one of the last blue kitchen knives. But I notice he still uses the steel for other knives.

I myself see that what I like and look for as for a size he is way higher than I can afford. He is in the prices of custom makers. I just think he priced himself out of his market.(or my) Time will tell.

I hate it when restaurants do this. They usually either go out of business and have no idea why. Or they end up picking up a totally different group.

Timthebeaver
06-26-2013, 03:32 PM
I myself see that what I like and look for as for a size he is way higher than I can afford. He is in the prices of custom makers. I just think he priced himself out of his market.(or my) Time will tell.



Surely given his background/experience this is reasonable?. Okay, so maybe you can't get a custom spec knife, but how many custom knife makers (who offer a 9 inch gyuto for around $700) can match Murray's pedigree when it comes to making kitchen knives?

Mike9
06-26-2013, 03:42 PM
Lets put a little perspective on this. Take one new facility, four full time employees and a family of six and you need to produce some serious income. He's working the dream and it's paying off. The only time I can afford to buy one is when he's running a 25% off sale like he did recently, or catch a break on a BST deal.

Lefty
06-26-2013, 04:24 PM
I think we forget that Murray is an actual Master Smith. To get a knife made by him for anywhere from $550-750 is technically a "steal", compared to most MS makers.

Noodle Soup
06-26-2013, 05:20 PM
It may be a steal by ABS standards but I dropped out of the market when he made that jump from something like an average price of $150-200 to the current $500 level. And I used to be one of his best customers. Same goes for Takeda, I know he is wondering why I just walk on by his table these days. There are limits to how much a working kitchen knife is worth to me. ABS guys like to think of their knives as collectable art that will increase in value rather than every day cutting tools. That is great if there is a market but it won't be to me.

Justin0505
06-26-2013, 05:56 PM
Murray is doing something different than any other MS kitchen knife maker that I know of: He's producing a much higher volume at a (now just slightly) lower price, but at the sacrifice of customization and, I think you could argue, quality.
I know that he claims that he makes better knives when he gets into the rhythm of batch production, but I still don't think that you can compare the finished product to what you see from the likes of Burke or Rader, or even some non-MS makers like Devin WillC. Randy, Butch and maybe even Fowler at this point.

I'm not saying that Carter is any less skilled; just that for the past few years, he's been increasing his focus on making a different level of knife: factory laminated steel, quick, rough forging, course, deep grind marks, -FF that is perfectly fine and functional, but not at exhibition / showpiece levels. Other makers have experimented with trying to increase production quantity and reduce price though various permutations of "mid-tech" but it seems like Carter is the first to crack that nut and develop something sustainable and profitable. His knives are certainly unique and he's found a niche, but the problem is that a few years ago the neighboring niches in his price bracket where special-edition Shun's and production knives from large Saki makers. Now he's moved up well above the where most of top end "regular" stuff from JKI stops and into the range of "Jon's special reserve" (special order), or full custom form a variety of other very very talented makers. His knives are now competing with knives that can give them some serious competition.

I still like his work, and I still think that his knives are "worth it" but I don't think that you can call them a "steal" anymore. I am all for people getting paid what their work is worth, and I'm happy that Carter is able to provide for himself and his family and create jobs for people that want to use skill and their hands to make things of utility and value for other humans. What he's doing is a good thing for himself, everyone around him, and the k-knife world as a whole, just not for folks who enjoy the chance to but awesome knives for bargain prices.

franzb69
06-26-2013, 08:40 PM
gotta agree with you justin.

Lefty
06-26-2013, 09:36 PM
Hmm. Good argument, and I'll admit you have a very good point. I miss the old throw away handles and low price as much as the next guy, but I guess I also get what he's doing. All things considered, I just wish I could get either a full custom, or only a blade from him.

pkjames
06-26-2013, 09:59 PM
don't see the fuss of the carter knives. To me, he was trained in japan, and makes japanese kitchen knives using japanese steel in us.
i'd rather stick with the ones from japanese masters at lower cost.

Justin0505
06-26-2013, 10:06 PM
don't see the fuss of the carter knives. To me, he was trained in japan, and makes japanese kitchen knives using japanese steel in us.
i'd rather stick with the ones from japanese masters at lower cost.

Have you ever used one? He has clearly developed his own style; it's not just another j-blade but made in the US. And if you really want one from A (single guy, not a small factory) japanese master of equivalent skill and reputation, prices are not going to be that much different.

NO ChoP!
06-26-2013, 10:29 PM
I love my Carters. My 150'ish kurouchi petty is the bee's knees, and I'd pay the full price for it all over again ($340). Nothing I've used (and I've used a few) gets as sharp, and is as pleasurable to use. And he's an amazingly crazy-cool dude; character goes along way in my book.

Lefty
06-26-2013, 10:35 PM
Chris is also right. I like Murray, and I love his knives. I dunno...arguing over price at all, on this forum, seems kinda crazy. Haha

apicius9
06-27-2013, 12:56 AM
I have only six Carters left, and really hated to let go each one of the other ones...

My 2 cts.

Stefan

Notaskinnychef
06-27-2013, 03:20 AM
I was amazed to see how simple and utilitarian his handles were. Love the blade, but the handle just screams department store lol. This is one of his older knives, not a new one from todays lines.

pkjames
06-27-2013, 03:32 AM
Have you ever used one? He has clearly developed his own style; it's not just another j-blade but made in the US. And if you really want one from A (single guy, not a small factory) japanese master of equivalent skill and reputation, prices are not going to be that much different.

what you said could well be the case. And being in down under, it is a bit hard to try and sell if you don't like it, because we will lose a lot in shipping.
so, at similar price to say, a shig or a kato, I wont just buy a carter without having a chance to try first. Instead, I'd more likely to get a knife from a well-known master from japan who is probably in the business for 40yrs + and with great reputation.

I am not saying Carter is bad, just I don't see what is so special about carter, apart from made in US. Of course, this is could well change if I had a chance to use it :)

Lukas
06-27-2013, 05:30 AM
I love Murray's knives and the price hike is nothing but good ol' supply & demand.

On the other hand, I'd love to know where is he getting his customer base, the YouTube videos seem to get a lot of views but I'm not sure how much of those translates into sales and I don't see that many posts in the kitchen knife forums.

Timthebeaver
06-27-2013, 06:13 AM
I love Murray's knives and the price hike is nothing but good ol' supply & demand.

On the other hand, I'd love to know where is he getting his customer base, the YouTube videos seem to get a lot of views but I'm not sure how much of those translates into sales and I don't see that many posts in the kitchen knife forums.

Carter's knives were incredibly popular/fashionable at one point. The forums tap into the Zeitgeist, there is a bias towards newer/more esoteric things.

As far as western kitchen knife makers go, he is one of the most established, I'm sure he has a loyal customer base.

Lefty
06-27-2013, 06:54 AM
I own three....

stereo.pete
06-27-2013, 08:41 AM
I own one of his entry-level no frill blue steel nakiri's and I am always amazed at how well it cuts. I would definitely buy another knife from Murray in the future because I know it be a great cutter. My only problem is that there are so many other great makers here in the U.S. that I don't have knives from yet, (Pierre, Devin, Randy, Luke S. and Marko) that it will be a while before I purchase another one.

mikemac
06-27-2013, 09:23 AM
.... I'd more likely to get a knife from a well-known master from japan who is probably in the business for 40yrs...
...I don't see what is so special about carter, apart from made in US. Of course, this is could well change if I had a chance to use it :)

MC's knives are currently made in the U.S., but a) he's Canadian, and b) he's spent the greater portion of his adult life in Japan. I don't know if it makes him special, but he is an ABS master bladesmith and was also designated the 17th generation Yoshimoto bladesmith who also produces kitchen knives. That's a pretty select group of knifemakers. I came across this quote...

"I believe he is the only Caucasian Japanese bladesmith," says Joe Kertzman, managing editor of Blade Magazine. [who] says Carter may rank among the top 10 living bladesmiths in the world, and easily among the top 50. "

In the 17 +/- years I've been hanging around these forums, the most consistent complaint about MC's knives concerned his cheesy handles on the lower prices knives.

NO ChoP!
06-27-2013, 09:38 AM
And the most popular thing was to take his lower priced knives and immediately have them rehandled. Now he's just doing it himself, and his handles are quite nice these days. Maybe an unusually array of material choices, but much better than the custom handles he was doing in the past.

scott6452
06-28-2013, 05:22 PM
30% sale now on on all kitchen knives until 4 July if anyone is interested?

Mike9
06-28-2013, 05:50 PM
30% sale now on on all kitchen knives until 4 July if anyone is interested?

Some nice bargains here. http://clicks.aweber.com/y/ct/?l=Hg07s&m=Jukdw1rcmLuMza&b=K.zqr9V0Hpn4Oi0sVTmO4w

rdm_magic
06-28-2013, 06:00 PM
God damn 45$ shipping to get one of his knives over here totally obliterates the discount

Timthebeaver
06-28-2013, 06:07 PM
2nd 5.9sun International Pro Nakiri, Damascus, Ironwood, $1959.74

That's a hell of a "second".

Timthebeaver
06-28-2013, 06:12 PM
Gotta say that most of those custom handles are gash. Simple ho wood with blonde or black ferrules would be much better, e.g.


http://www.cartercutlery.com/japanese-knives/knife-archives/kitchen-knife-archives/74-sun-high-grade-gyuto-ho-woodblond-buffalo-h

So much nicer than his current offerings.

bkdc
06-28-2013, 06:31 PM
Yep. The main reason I didn't pull the trigger is because the handles are offensive to my eyes.

rdm_magic
06-28-2013, 06:38 PM
You can always stick a new handle on..

WildBoar
06-28-2013, 06:41 PM
Some nice bargains here. http://clicks.aweber.com/y/ct/?l=Hg07s&m=Jukdw1rcmLuMza&b=K.zqr9V0Hpn4Oi0sVTmO4was usual, they are all short. He makes far too many in the 140-200 length for my tastes. But I'm sure that's what most people want who have been accustomed to the german knife block sets, where the chef's knife is often 150 - 200.

scott6452
06-28-2013, 06:43 PM
as usual, they are all short. He makes far too many in the 140-200 length for my tastes.

Agreed, I was especially disappointed with his international pro batch, not one knife over 5 sun.

Pensacola Tiger
06-28-2013, 06:45 PM
2nd 5.9sun International Pro Nakiri, Damascus, Ironwood, $1959.74

That's a hell of a "second".

But you save $587.92!

Timthebeaver
06-28-2013, 06:49 PM
You can always stick a new handle on..

Says the man who was moaning about ponying up $45 for postage ;)

Timthebeaver
06-28-2013, 06:52 PM
But you save $587.92!



I missed that. In that case i'll get the matching 2nd 3 grand Yanagi/Suji as well.

Noodle Soup
06-28-2013, 07:04 PM
For the record, there are currently 5 Carters in everyday use in my blocks. maybe a dozen or so stored away. Looking at one of those links, I found several of the knives I paid something like $100+ for are now $400. If he can sell them at the price great, that is supply and demand but sure won't be to me. Makes a guy feel like there actually are some advantages to getting older. I was there first! :) Ethan Becker (Joy of Cooking) and I used to compete with each other to see who had first crack at Murray's Japanese made knives.

Bill13
06-28-2013, 07:12 PM
Yep. The main reason I didn't pull the trigger is because the handles are offensive to my eyes.

Agreed! His handles show no sence of what looks good together. I saw a knife with blue Corian as a spacer!! I think he would be better off with a no handle option. He does look like he is doing well so I guess there is no accounting for taste.

You don't see them on BST so the knives themselves must be great.

I do enjoy his videos.

cheezit
06-28-2013, 07:18 PM
Agreed! His handles show no sence of what looks good together. I saw a knife with blue Corian as a spacer!! I think he would be better off with a no handle option. He does look like he is doing well so I guess there is no accounting for taste.

It's all subjective, really. Some of his handles may be unattractive, but I find some of them downright sexy...

http://i.imgur.com/iBH3uC9.jpg

Timthebeaver
06-28-2013, 07:28 PM
It's all subjective, really. Some of his handles may be unattractive, but I find some of them downright sexy...

http://i.imgur.com/iBH3uC9.jpg

imo that is a mess. 4 different materials?

Sometimes less is more.

Anton
06-28-2013, 07:34 PM
Very hit and miss with the handles... way too many elements which in most cases don't have any synergy

stevenStefano
06-28-2013, 07:36 PM
Some of them look nice until you see the top and bottom of them. I think he's being a little cheap with the fancy handles, they'd look way better if he drilled the tang and used one piece of wood rather than having the bit in the middle

Von blewitt
06-28-2013, 07:45 PM
I used to wrap black electrical tape over the corian spacer on the carter I owned

don
06-28-2013, 08:54 PM
Agreed that his new custom handles aren't as nice as the ones we're accustomed to on KFF. As such, I miss the days when he had throwaway handles on his knives. But I can't begrudge Carter for raising his prices. If the market can bear it, he should do it. We need more builders and makers in America, and if this provides him and his family a nice living and promotes others to follow suit, that's not bad.

markenki
06-28-2013, 09:14 PM
I am not saying Carter is bad, just I don't see what is so special about carter, apart from made in US. Of course, this is could well change if I had a chance to use it :)
Being made in the US is not what is special about Carters. They won't win on looks, but they are incredible cutters. I hope you have a chance to use one some day.

Crothcipt
06-28-2013, 09:59 PM
as usual, they are all short. He makes far too many in the 140-200 length for my tastes. But I'm sure that's what most people want who have been accustomed to the german knife block sets, where the chef's knife is often 150 - 200.
And if you do find one 230 or higher its almost 2k for it, with a plain handle. My biggest complaint is way to small. But I did just buy https://www.cartercutlery.com/japanese-knives/kitchen-cutlery/high-grade-series/62-sun-high-grade-funayuki-custom-handle-1

Price is right, can use it as a petty.

franzb69
06-29-2013, 12:56 AM
deleted

don
06-29-2013, 01:51 AM
And if you do find one 230 or higher its almost 2k for it, with a plain handle. My biggest complaint is way to small. But I did just buy https://www.cartercutlery.com/japanese-knives/kitchen-cutlery/high-grade-series/62-sun-high-grade-funayuki-custom-handle-1

Price is right, can use it as a petty.

Good looking knife. I was eyeing it too.

WiscoNole
06-29-2013, 01:54 AM
Just looked at his website...$3,100 for a blemished yanagiba? yikes!

chinacats
06-29-2013, 02:36 AM
Just looked at his website...$3,100 for a blemished yanagiba? yikes!

It is 340mm...but yes, yikes!

Mike9
06-29-2013, 09:49 AM
That's a good looking knife Crothcipt. This one is out for delivery along with a 6.5 sun KU freestyle funayuki -

https://www.cartercutlery.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/product_s/222x153solo.jpg

stevenStefano
06-29-2013, 10:36 AM
Apart from the yanagi, I can't see a single knife over 21cm. If he's not taking custom orders and is basically making what he wants it seems the chances of seeing a 240 or 270 gyuto are very small

Lefty
06-29-2013, 10:40 AM
Makes things complicated, doesn't it?

NO ChoP!
06-29-2013, 11:05 AM
He's had at least three different larger gyutos up within the last few weeks; they must just move quicker. And for the record 225-270mm sell for $850 to $1000'ish. Seems to be inline with what other custom US makers are charging, and they aren't Murray Carter.

I think I'll buy a 180'ish funi someday, as I've found I really like this size. It is quite versatile. It makes a good service knife, can break down a side of fish, etc...

NO ChoP!
06-29-2013, 11:23 AM
"Summergrab" at check out = 30% off!!!!!

Noodle Soup
06-29-2013, 01:07 PM
$800 to $1000? And to think I sold my 240mm at the Oregon Show for $200 :) Less than I paid for it at the New York Custom show back when Murray still lived in Japan.

Anton
06-29-2013, 03:36 PM
Picked up 2, but I'm afraid they are going straight for re-handling. I'll be curious to compare to my old carter and see what, if anything, has changed.

marc4pt0
06-29-2013, 07:55 PM
Funny watching this on his site. Knives that haven't moved in a while are all sold now. I'm quite sure it's due to the 30% off! Wonder if this is a prelude to a small price drop? Hmmmmm?

Crothcipt
06-29-2013, 08:38 PM
It is for me. I also saw a few for a couple hundred bf coupon, they were out fast.

Mike9
06-30-2013, 11:15 AM
Mine came yesterday and they are thin, well balanced, scary sharp and extremely efficient cutting machines. The best OOTB edges I've ever experienced.

cheezit
07-02-2013, 05:06 PM
Just looked at his website...$3,100 for a blemished yanagiba? yikes!

Just saw that this was marked as sold on Murray's website! Wowza! Which one of you was it? :D

tripleq
07-02-2013, 08:15 PM
I think whether Murray's products are worth the price is totally subjective. I recall seeing Bill Gates interviewed once and he was asked if he felt guilty making billions of dollars by selling software on a disk that can be reproduced for practically nothing. His answer was interesting. He said that he didn't feel guilt because in our society people only pay for a product if they find value in it at the asking price. Otherwise, people have the option to buy something else or nothing at all. In the same sense I think it is ok if people want to spend their money on Carter cutlery. I've owned several Carter knives and I sold them all. They just aren't for me. Yes, they are good knives but like in every consumer item there is a point of diminishing returns. Is a 600$ Carter better than a 300$ Watanabe? Maybe. Twice as good? Absolutely not. At least not from where I'm cutting.

One also has to consider that a super high-end knife is only going to perform as well as its last sharpening. I've met more than a few Carter owners who were quck to declare that Murray makes the best knives in the world but at the same time their knives didn't perform well because they lacked the skills to sharpen the knife anywhere near its potential. How much were those knives worth? As much as they were willing to pay, regardless. Everyone has different criteria for evaluating an items value and they are all valid. I think Murray makes a great product but given the alternatives it isn't a product that I personally feel is worth the money.

Noodle Soup
07-02-2013, 08:52 PM
"One also has to consider that a super high-end knife is only going to perform as well as its last sharpening. I've met more than a few Carter owners who were quck to declare that Murray makes the best knives in the world but at the same time their knives didn't perform well because they lacked the skills to sharpen the knife anywhere near its potential."

Now there is an outstanding statement! A well sharpened Victorinox is better than a dull Kramer any day of the week. And anyone that thinks he can send his knives out for professional sharpening once or twice a year is working with dull knives most of the time.

Mike9
07-02-2013, 08:59 PM
Let me put it another way - I can sharpen ergo my Carters take a much finer edge than even my "high end" knives - Hiro AS, Yoshihiro, Takagi, Kono HD, etc. The forging, heat treat and geometry are really a cut above the pack.

NO ChoP!
07-02-2013, 10:06 PM
I agree that his ootb edge is crazy sharp. I was very impressed...