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View Full Version : First single bevel has arrived...any advice/recommendations?



Zwiefel
06-12-2013, 08:35 PM
Just got my first single-bevel in the mail today...putting a few coats of mineral oil on the handle + saya to prevent staining, etc. as the wood arrive very raw (nicely sanded + finished, just raw, if that's the right word).Looking for any thoughts on techniques, cuts, meals, sharpening, etc. for a noob with this to build skills around all aspects of owning using this type of knife.Knife is 210mm Uraku White #2 Usuba, left-handed.Welcome any thoughts...don't assume I know anything...except, perhaps, the difference between 1 and 2 bevels :)

schanop
06-12-2013, 08:37 PM
Put it on the stone to open, if Jon has not done so already :-D

A koba can be helpful for white steel usuba. Just be gentle with it.

Zwiefel
06-12-2013, 09:01 PM
Thanks! Jon did initial sharpening on it for me....and it's wicked sharp, and wicked thin.

Whats a koba? How does one use it?

GlassEye
06-12-2013, 09:13 PM
Thanks! Jon did initial sharpening on it for me....and it's wicked sharp, and wicked thin.

Whats a koba? How does one use it?

Koba=microbevel

mhlee
06-12-2013, 09:17 PM
Nice buy, Z.

Have you watched Jon's videos on single bevel sharpening? They're a great place to start to understand how to sharpen single bevel knives.

I'm certainly no expert, but, I participated in one of Jon's old Skype classes and spoken with him and have had him look at my work a bunch of times. I always think of a few important points that I learned from him that are in his videos:

1. Pay attention to where I put my fingers and where you're exerting pressure on the knife, i.e. up above the shinogi line vs. toward the edge when sharpening these two different areas;
2. Using a slight twist of the wrist to support sharpening the area above the shinogi line vs. the area toward the edge;
3. Using light pressure when sharpening;
4. Looking to keep the shinogi line even and parallel to the edge.

I actually enjoy sharpening single bevel knives more than double bevel knives.

Try doing Katsuramuki! Good luck and have fun with that knife!

jimbob
06-12-2013, 10:04 PM
I'm in your boat too z, having recently bought a Kama usuba in blue steel. Am appreciating these tips. While there is lots of good videos, I still feel some direct tutelage would be best. Didn't even think about Skype classes, that would be very handy! Chefs armoury here in Melbourne does one on one classes but at 300 just too pricy for me at the mo!

jimbob
06-12-2013, 10:07 PM
And really enjoying the knife, scallion shaving and thin cuts in general have been improved. Katsuramuki, I nailed it the first time, think I could do it again?! Practice practice practice

Zwiefel
06-12-2013, 11:00 PM
Koba=microbevel

Doh! I probably should have known that! I know there are set of knives Jon recommends this for: the SIH series, and at least some single bevels. Thanks for the pointer!


Nice buy, Z.

Have you watched Jon's videos on single bevel sharpening? They're a great place to start to understand how to sharpen single bevel knives.

I'm certainly no expert, but, I participated in one of Jon's old Skype classes and spoken with him and have had him look at my work a bunch of times. I always think of a few important points that I learned from him that are in his videos:

1. Pay attention to where I put my fingers and where you're exerting pressure on the knife, i.e. up above the shinogi line vs. toward the edge when sharpening these two different areas;
2. Using a slight twist of the wrist to support sharpening the area above the shinogi line vs. the area toward the edge;
3. Using light pressure when sharpening;
4. Looking to keep the shinogi line even and parallel to the edge.

I actually enjoy sharpening single bevel knives more than double bevel knives.

Try doing Katsuramuki! Good luck and have fun with that knife!

Thanks, I'm excited about learning something totally new.

Yup, I rewatched them the day I placed the order, as well as re-watching the Japanese Knife Society vids he helped produce. I'm going to get to spend a little time with our friend in Fleetwood in a couple of weeks, and will definitely want to spend some time on this...I need to make a little flash card of these points to put on my sharpening kit!


And really enjoying the knife, scallion shaving and thin cuts in general have been improved. Katsuramuki, I nailed it the first time, think I could do it again?! Practice practice practice

This is definitely some of the stuff I'm thinking of...and had katsuramuki in mind specifically :)

stereo.pete
06-12-2013, 11:07 PM
Pics please. :pirate1:

Zwiefel
06-12-2013, 11:49 PM
Pics please. :pirate1:

Heh...I knew I wouldn't be able to get back from dinner in time to avoid that :)

Just unboxed (well, a couple of coats of mineral oil):
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7412/9028584559_8824c8431b.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2809/9030810162_b5d82c3538.jpg

My best choil shot ever...but still not perfect:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7356/9030806456_558ffb4f9d.jpg

Not sure if this shot is useful:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7367/9028576921_9c94c96f41.jpg

Can clearly see the line around the perimeter from Jon's initial uraoshi, and get a little sense of the grind of the ura..I couldn't figure out the right angle/light to do better here:
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2868/9028575185_62b7d19014.jpg

Crothcipt
06-13-2013, 01:51 AM
I use my fuguhiki for cutting potato skins. Only thing I have found other than fish from the supermarket to practice on.

Zwiefel
06-13-2013, 02:04 AM
I use my fuguhiki for cutting potato skins. Only thing I have found other than fish from the supermarket to practice on.

What does "cutting potato skins" mean? peeling? that doesn't seem right. Maybe like the appetizer?

JBroida
06-13-2013, 02:25 AM
fwiw, i did put a koba on that knife

schanop
06-13-2013, 02:31 AM
Master speaks :-D

Zwiefel
06-13-2013, 02:38 AM
fwiw, i did put a koba on that knife

Good to know! I was going to PM to ask if it was a good idea on this particular knife...if any

Thanks again for your customer-mindedness, you are an excellent example to every small business owner of the value of caring about your customer (as are many on this forum, actually).

kpeddie2010
06-13-2013, 06:19 AM
learn to kastumuraki and push cut green onions and regular onions as thin as u think u can.
It will teach you how to minimize your movement and be very efficient at push cutting. i got exponentially more efficient
at push cutting when i started push cutting mountains of green onions and onions shavings for sushi. Try to be exact on your
size of slices because imo food taste better when your slices are consistent.

Patatas Bravas
06-13-2013, 06:26 AM
DO, I know you've got several books on curries ;) but I'm guessing you don't have 'Japanese Kitchen Knives: Essential Techniques and Recipies'. It's good for this sort of question, along with the great videos mentioned.

If I'd just received my first usuba (sadly, that day hath not arrived) I'd probably do the 'Needle-cut Vegetable Salad with Sesame Dressing' on p.34 because those fine, fine needle cuts look cool. Almost like little vermicellis.

Update us on how you're enjoying it. Man, I'll have to get one myself now.

As for the koba ...


fwiw, i did put a koba on that knife

I'm curious if this was a 1-bevel koba or 2. If a 1, is the micro-bev on the front side or back of the knife? (From what I know, Mr Broida puts micro single-bevs when he sharpens double-bevelled knives and I suppose he would do the same in this case.

jimbob
06-13-2013, 08:16 AM
Just bought that book thanks patavas! Looks useful....

Zwiefel
06-13-2013, 11:08 AM
DO, I know you've got several books on curries ;) but I'm guessing you don't have 'Japanese Kitchen Knives: Essential Techniques and Recipies'. It's good for this sort of question, along with the great videos mentioned.

If I'd just received my first usuba (sadly, that day hath not arrived) I'd probably do the 'Needle-cut Vegetable Salad with Sesame Dressing' on p.34 because those fine, fine needle cuts look cool. Almost like little vermicellis.


Awesome recco PB! Going to see if I can have that delivered to charlotte for my arrival there next week.



Update us on how you're enjoying it. Man, I'll have to get one myself now.


Will do...I'll take some photos of my incompetence for the group :)



As for the koba ...



I'm curious if this was a 1-bevel koba or 2. If a 1, is the micro-bev on the front side or back of the knife? (From what I know, Mr Broida puts micro single-bevs when he sharpens double-bevelled knives and I suppose he would do the same in this case.

IIRC from his videos, Jon usually puts it on the blade face side only. I think in some cases he recommends a back-bevel on the last 1-2" of the heel for Deba though.

Similar for the uBevel he recommends for the SIH..but I can't remember which side he recommends for that.

Patatas Bravas
06-13-2013, 11:57 AM
Thanks, guys, but hardly my recommendation. Been mentioned here before and more than once I'm sure. Good book and handy reference, the 3 big knives of Japan. I appreciate it in part because I get a bit sick of being at the computer checking into this subject; a book is a relief!

(Along with this, would also love to see a book all about stones and sharpening; might exist in Japanese, but doesn't in English for sure.)

Looking forward to the travel usuba shots, DO. Will you & the missus be travelling by camper?

mhlee
06-13-2013, 12:08 PM
I recall a thread about this before and, IIRC, microbevels are only put on the back side of a deba.

I know from my own personal mistake years ago that putting a bevel on the back side of a yanagiba is a mistake - you won't be able to do proper uraoshi sharpening on a yanagiba because it creates an upward bevel on the back side behind the edge, instead of it being flat.

Patatas Bravas
06-13-2013, 12:20 PM
I recall a thread about this before and, IIRC, microbevels are only put on the back side of a deba...

This rings a bell, with debas. I believe the sturdier, heel-end half of the edge, which makes sense as it's were you're more likely to do the business.

Zwiefel
06-13-2013, 01:22 PM
a book is a relief!

I know that feeling...I'm looking forward to doing some reading on my trip...on the Nook of course! Kinda looking forward to limited and intermittent internet access.


(Along with this, would also love to see a book all about stones and sharpening; might exist in Japanese, but doesn't in English for sure.)

I believe this is a recommendation I got from KKF: http://www.amazon.com/The-Complete-Guide-Sharpening-Leonard/dp/1561581259/ref=pd_cart_recs2


Looking forward to the travel usuba shots, DO. Will you & the missus be travelling by camper?

Yup, taking the RV on a 7 state tour. I remembered that I had some green onions in the crisper that were starting to go soft, so I gave it a go...following the video from JapaneseKnifeSociety as closely as I could. Definitely improved as I worked my way from left-to-right. Here is a shot of the final rounds...not awful...After being shocked at the performance of my Masamoto, then my SIH, I really didn't think that could happen again...but it did.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5345/9035134498_eda51d6424.jpg

Zwiefel
06-13-2013, 01:26 PM
I recall a thread about this before and, IIRC, microbevels are only put on the back side of a deba.

I know from my own personal mistake years ago that putting a bevel on the back side of a yanagiba is a mistake - you won't be able to do proper uraoshi sharpening on a yanagiba because it creates an upward bevel on the back side behind the edge, instead of it being flat.

this is precisely what I recall from Jon's various comments and videos on the topic.

mhlee
06-13-2013, 01:38 PM
I need to further clarify one thing. I put an upward bevel along most of the back side of the edge, not just a small portion.

Zwiefel
06-13-2013, 01:42 PM
I need to further clarify one thing. I put an upward bevel along most of the back side of the edge, not just a small portion.

on 1-bevels?

mhlee
06-13-2013, 01:51 PM
on 1-bevels?

This was my mistake that I referred to in my earlier post. I mistakenly put an upward bevel on the back side of the edge most of my (luckily cheap) yanagiba, not just a small portion of the back side. i

ThEoRy
06-13-2013, 02:20 PM
Looks weird, the bevel is on the wrong side.

Zwiefel
06-13-2013, 02:24 PM
This was my mistake that I referred to in my earlier post. I mistakenly put an upward bevel on the back side of the edge most of my (luckily cheap) yanagiba, not just a small portion of the back side. i

Got it! That makes more sense...well, I mean...now I understand ;)

Zwiefel
06-13-2013, 02:24 PM
Looks weird, the bevel is on the wrong side.

It's very hard to find a properly made knife...I understand your confusion.

ThEoRy
06-13-2013, 03:10 PM
:rofl2:
It's very hard to find a properly made knife...I understand your confusion.

JBroida
06-13-2013, 04:47 PM
I'm curious if this was a 1-bevel koba or 2. If a 1, is the micro-bev on the front side or back of the knife? (From what I know, Mr Broida puts micro single-bevs when he sharpens double-bevelled knives and I suppose he would do the same in this case.

what do you mean by this? I think you're asking if i microbeveled one side or both.... if so, i only did the bevel side. Debas are the only exception i can think of off the top of my head here.

daveb
06-13-2013, 05:20 PM
[QUOTE=Zwiefel;216013]

I believe this is a recommendation I got from KKF: http://www.amazon.com/The-Complete-Guide-Sharpening-Leonard/dp/1561581259/ref=pd_cart_recs2


Z, Sounds like a great road trip. When you get to I-75 turn right and go about 14 hours, then blow the horn.:cool2:

I think the book recommended on the subj is:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1568364903?ref_=sr_1_1&s=books&qid=1371154063&sr=1-1&keywords=japanese%20knives

Was available from Korin as well.

In it the three original(?) Japanese knives, usuba, yanagiba and deba, are detailed. The book you cited is more suited for tool sharpening.

Regards,

Dave

Zwiefel
06-13-2013, 06:15 PM
Thanks DaveB! I also just remembered your materials on Google Docs..need to re-check those.

the book I noted was for Patatas Bravas...he mentioned wanted info on sharpening that was written in english.

TB_London
06-13-2013, 07:02 PM
(Along with this, would also love to see a book all about stones and sharpening; might exist in Japanese, but doesn't in English for sure.)



Have you seen Chad Ward's An edge in the kitchen?

Patatas Bravas
06-13-2013, 08:44 PM
.. I remembered that I had some green onions in the crisper that were starting to go soft, so I gave it a go...following the video from JapaneseKnifeSociety as closely as I could. Definitely improved as I worked my way from left-to-right. Here is a shot of the final rounds...not awful...After being shocked at the performance of my Masamoto, then my SIH, I really didn't think that could happen again...but it did.

Nice! Now I'll really have to hurry with my own usuba...



I'm curious if this was a 1-bevel koba or 2. If a 1, is the micro-bev on the front side or back of the knife? (From what I know, Mr Broida puts micro single-bevs when he sharpens double-bevelled knives and I suppose he would do the same in this case.
what do you mean by this? I think you're asking if i microbeveled one side or both.... if so, i only did the bevel side. Debas are the only exception i can think of off the top of my head here.

Trying to write quickly with a baby on lap.

Translation: I know that you usually add micro-bevs when you sharpen, and I think you just add a single micro-bev, not a double. If so, I was wondering what side of the usuba you might have put the micro-bev on, but you've answered that. And yes, I was curious because I've seen how a single micro-bev is put on the back of a deba.

Crothcipt
06-14-2013, 01:55 AM
What does "cutting potato skins" mean? peeling? that doesn't seem right. Maybe like the appetizer?
yep cut long ways in quarters, then cut the center out. I have been using the fuguhiki to learn more controll.