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smilesenpai
06-14-2013, 03:23 AM
I have a Shun 1k/6k whet stone.
What is the recommended method to correcting the stone?
For the 1k face I would use something rougher than the 6k side, right?
I'm a student so don't have the budget for nice equipment and been using sand sandpaper on a flat surface so far. :dazed:
Thanks.

franzb69
06-14-2013, 03:43 AM
a cheap diamond plate would suffice so long as the diamond plate you buy is dead flat. a 1k stone would be fine with a 140 or 325 grit stone.

the 6k would be ok with maybe a 1k diamond plate.

Dusty
06-14-2013, 07:20 AM
There is nothing at all wrong with the method you are using if you are getting results. Save your money for more knives and stones.

I've used cinder blocks, drywall, and the pavement in a pinch, and sandpaper on something flat is just fine.

franzb69
06-14-2013, 07:58 AM
let me correct myself, i've tried using sandpaper on a flat surface, the pavement, even actual walls, lol. and none have done a better job than a diamond plate. so i've stuck to that.

=D

Benuser
06-14-2013, 10:19 AM
http://korin.com/Shop/Stone-Fixer

Zwiefel
06-14-2013, 11:28 AM
http://korin.com/Shop/Stone-Fixer

Stone fixers are inexpensive (comparatively) and work fine...but they change shape with your stones, just more slowly. So keep in mind that your stone correcter will eventually need to be corrected itself. Also, it will become less coarse over time and that will slow it down.

None of these are reasons to not get one...I've been pleased with one I have...the exact one that was linked, actually (the brown one).

:2cents:

bkdc
06-14-2013, 01:05 PM
Wow those stone fixers are way way cheaper than my DMT dia-flat.

bkdc
06-14-2013, 01:26 PM
BTW, unless i'm sharpening a single bevel knife (like usuba, deba, yanagi) or a blade with a large primary bevel and shinogi line on a double bevel, I personally don't think ultra-micron super-duper flatness is that important.

Benuser
06-14-2013, 01:46 PM
+1
Use high spots for thinning.

zitangy
06-14-2013, 03:38 PM
I wld assess it the amount of stone removal required and where.

Is it a hard or soft water stone? How dished is it. Generally the perimeters of the stone and the two ends wld be raised.

I prefer not to use too rough a "flattening stone" as it does leave deep striations. I buy cheap stones that is at least teh same size or three quarters in terms of length the size of the sharpening stone. IF not much removal required which shld be the case if you do it regularly, then a stone a few notches down in terms of grit is my preference.

I have a very worn out small diamond plate which is used as a nagura when I desire to give the edge a mud bath polishing after it is flattened

After the leveling, the mud is collected in a small container to be used for polishing and cleaning. Yes I collect a concoction of 1000 to 5000 mix adn also just 10,000 grit mud

The stones above 1,000 grit are usually flattened and also to create slurry with my 1,000 grit stone as I do believe that grit contamination is good for leaving a more toothy edge. Not for polishing though.

just my views..

hv a nice week -end.
D

tk59
06-14-2013, 08:06 PM
+1 to Dusty and franz. Diamond plates are nice but not necessary for kitchen knives. I don't like stone fixers though. They are expensive cinder blocks.

smilesenpai
06-15-2013, 09:06 AM
Oh okay. Now to reply in order.
franzb69. Using a wall to flatter stones. I see a laughable image of you doing in a public place and getting strange looks. :D Ha ha!

Zwiefel. What grit is the brown stone suitable for?

zitangy. I am a bit of a nut so when I begin to notice dishing, I want to correct my stone.

"Hard or soft"?.. My first stone, so I don't know. It is a Shun stone. The 1k side I think is very soft compared to the 6k.

Are the cheap stones do you use?

"Mud bath polish". Does this mean you have a water bath and take edges off in the water using your diamond plate?

Using a nagura seem so complex. A small stone to correct one at least 5 times the size sound nuts.

http://toolsforworkingwood.com/store/blog/91
The site above agrees with you combination of grit method.

Collecting slurry. You are hard core! So far my is in the garden. :P

tk59. In Australia we call cinder blocks "besser blocks". Crazy world. I thought they would be too rough as the once I have dealt with have small stone (1mm) in them. Do you just find a soon one?

Thank for your input. I was getting so confused reading all these "info sites" and "youtube pros". :doublethumbsup:

Zwiefel
06-16-2013, 02:22 AM
I used my fixer on all of my stones.

Nagura isnt really for correcting stones. Its for smoothing out deeper scratches from correcting and for building slurry. JKI has a video discussing this on youtube....i cant copy/paste links from this device , so youll have to do some digging on Jons channel....time well spent though ;)



Oh okay. Now to reply in order.
franzb69. Using a wall to flatter stones. I see a laughable image of you doing in a public place and getting strange looks. :D Ha ha!

Zwiefel. What grit is the brown stone suitable for?

zitangy. I am a bit of a nut so when I begin to notice dishing, I want to correct my stone.

"Hard or soft"?.. My first stone, so I don't know. It is a Shun stone. The 1k side I think is very soft compared to the 6k.

Are the cheap stones do you use?

"Mud bath polish". Does this mean you have a water bath and take edges off in the water using your diamond plate?

Using a nagura seem so complex. A small stone to correct one at least 5 times the size sound nuts.

http://toolsforworkingwood.com/store/blog/91
The site above agrees with you combination of grit method.

Collecting slurry. You are hard core! So far my is in the garden. :P

tk59. In Australia we call cinder blocks "besser blocks". Crazy world. I thought they would be too rough as the once I have dealt with have small stone (1mm) in them. Do you just find a soon one?

Thank for your input. I was getting so confused reading all these "info sites" and "youtube pros". :doublethumbsup:

Justin0505
06-16-2013, 05:44 AM
I think that some people really get excessive when it comes flattening their stones. You really don't need a perfectly flat stone for the majority of the knives that you sharpen. If you're working a big, flat profiled single bevel, then it matters a little more. Coarse sandpaper on a flat surface works fine and I've also heard of people using that mesh abrasive thats made for smoothing plaster patches on drywall. However, once you get them flat, you should be able to keep them that way just by keeping an eye on it and adjusting what part of the stone you're using when sharpening.
Useful infor starts around 1:30 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_InT88SR19w

smilesenpai
08-01-2013, 08:43 PM
Wah! I have been away for a while.

I found a big granite tile for flattening. Seems to work great! :)

Have you guys seen how the dudes on Chef Steps sharpen their knives? Single stroke for the whole blade on a stone. What is your thoughts?

keithsaltydog
08-02-2013, 05:39 AM
I have used the shun 1K-6K stone.It will do the job,a little small but good combo of grits.I used fixers before learning of diamond plates.To me even a cheap 140 plate 29.00 works better than the fixers.As mentioned stones get dished & high on the ends.Using an X pattern on the ends levels faster.Also good to bevel your stones,never want high edges.

Also esp. wt. a small stone like the Shun don't go crazy over kill in flattening or you will not have much stone left.As said perfect flat is not ness. unless doing Japan Single Bevels.

Matus
08-02-2013, 06:48 AM
I have used both Naniwa flattening stone (220 grit) and a large piece of sandpaper on a tile floor (bit messy ;-) ) to flatten a rather soft 1k stone and can just say that I found the sandpaper to work better and faster. The flattening stone (looks like the first one in the link posted above) is smaller than the stone you will flatten and if you hand slips in the process, it may chip the edge of the stone (It did several times on mine, but this may just be poor quality of my current sharpening stone).

So - just get enough rough sandpaper and a large tile if the flattening diamond plates are beyond the budget. Just my opinion. It will help if you can tape the sandpaper to the tile as it will avoid folding of the sandpaper. As you proabably found out already - the sandpaper may clog rather fast.

Ruso
08-02-2013, 11:00 AM
I use piece of glass and drywall screen 120 or 240 grit on top. Works quite well and on sheet lasts a while.
I use wet piece of cotton sheet on the bottom of the glass to prevent slippage and one sheet on top of the glass to have nicer feel. Cheap and dandy :)

Pensacola Tiger
08-02-2013, 11:46 AM
Have you guys seen how the dudes on Chef Steps sharpen their knives? Single stroke for the whole blade on a stone. What is your thoughts?

Different strokes for different folks. There is no "right" way to sharpen.

keithsaltydog
08-04-2013, 05:46 AM
Different strokes for different folks. There is no "right" way to sharpen.

Yes there are alot of ways to get a sharp knife,but when I learned Japan style wt. fingerpads close to the edge,I never had to worry about dull blades anymore period.

smilesenpai
08-05-2013, 04:44 PM
Plates are not out of budget, but I want to save all I can to grow the collection of knives (not really a collection at the moment :P).


I hope you guys dont mind a topic change. I was given some stainless steel cleavers (dont know the brand as it is in Chinese) and they have chipped edges (about 0.5mm deep if not less) and the face is not polished (and not flat). What grit stones will I need to correct the edge and polish the face so food doesnt stick?

smilesenpai
08-05-2013, 04:49 PM
Different strokes for different folks. There is no "right" way to sharpen.

To put my mind at ease, do you have a link to your preferred method?

ThEoRy
08-05-2013, 04:50 PM
Technically, highly polished flat faces make the food stick more. A satin convexed face would be ideal for food release. Though I'm speaking generally about gyutos, I'm no chuckabocho expert.

smilesenpai
08-06-2013, 06:53 AM
Technically, highly polished flat faces make the food stick more. A satin convexed face would be ideal for food release. Though I'm speaking generally about gyutos, I'm no chuckabocho expert.

Yes that does make total sense.

If anyone is reading and knows to what level I should stop at polishing the faces of a chuckabocho, or blade in general to give less sticking/food release properties, please advise me.

zitangy
08-06-2013, 08:33 AM
My idiosyncratic preference.. from the cutting edge about 1-CM mirror polish adn above it.. sandpaper abt 600 grit.

as long as its not mirror shine or so smooth that you cant see the striations .. that shld reduce stiction.... I believe

hv fun

rgds
d

Benuser
08-06-2013, 08:46 AM
Makes sense.

smilesenpai
08-07-2013, 06:25 AM
My idiosyncratic preference.. from the cutting edge about 1-CM mirror polish adn above it.. sandpaper abt 600 grit.

as long as its not mirror shine or so smooth that you cant see the striations .. that shld reduce stiction.... I believe

This is great news. Saves me getting more stones.

Thanks.

smilesenpai
08-07-2013, 06:39 AM
Off topic again.
With my 1k/6k combo, can I just do some stokes on the 6k to get it back to razor sharp if done daily with use in a commercial kitchen?

zitangy
08-07-2013, 08:51 AM
Off topic again.
With my 1k/6k combo, can I just do some stokes on the 6k to get it back to razor sharp if done daily with use in a commercial kitchen?

Stones. strops or rods are just devices to be used accordingly...

My assumptions are that the knife has just been recently sharpened with 2 angles meeting adn behind the edge is sufficiently thin .

a) the first stage of degradation.. is a fold or a curl. as it is still thin either you do a cutting motion or spine leading is up to you.. as I prefer the former to cut off the curl. With this the 2 angles has met again but still thin enoughfor it to be a good cutter.

b) say you do it 20 sessions, with teh fine edge cut or removed it , behind the edge becomes a little thicker adn thus you wold need a courser device rod or stone and also thin behind the edge .

c) I believe that Devin says that the cutting edge is 0.4mm ( or 0.04) and Catcheside says that his edge is 0.1mm.. It is a very thin fine cutting edge. Thus use the appropriate grits to get your desired results. Look at the choil to see how thick the edge is. I also can feel it between my thumb and index finger..

Finally, working with such fine thin edge, I realized that pressure/ force applied is important. Lets say level 5 is your regular normal pressure that you exert and Level 1 is just the pressure of just teh weight of the knife. When finishing with each stone adn after I have removed the burr , I wld be on pressure 3 to 2 . I wld ease my pressure from level 3 to 1. Each time yu get a curl/ fold or burr adn get rid of it,. the edge receeds upwards and becomes slightly thicker..

Thus once in a while, i will thin behind the edge so that behind the edge thiness is also maintained regularly .

So determine your objective.. how much steel you want to remove adn choose correspondingly the appropriate tool with the desired grit and apply the correct technique/ strokes to achieve your objective .

may teh force be with you and have fun

rgds
d

smilesenpai
08-09-2013, 07:36 AM
may teh force be with you and have fun

rgds
d
Zitangy,

I have seen you many time replying to my question in great depths. Thank you.

I knew a knife is more than a tool for cutting and to use it there is much technique as there is to sharpening, but never did I think to this level. Much work is needed on my behalf.

My first blade is a Shun classic 10" (VG-10 is a tough metal to sharpen :scared4:) and have had it for about a 2 years and manage to get it lightsabering through paper when I sharpen, but I this his is not enough as I had seen in other forums. As I see now, when is the cutting edge thick, or thin... AHHH!! Well that is me in a nut shell.

Keep on slicing.