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marc4pt0
06-14-2013, 09:08 AM
I'm giving strong thoughts to trying out a deba. Never actually worked with one and am Very curious about giving it a go. So far I'm looking at the 180 & 210 Yoshihiro Kasumi on eBay and the Tanaka Kasumi 180 & 210. The price points are around what I'm looking to stay within as this is a trial run and not wanting to blow it all quite yet.
Thoughts and suggestions are certainly wanted/needed.
I'm posting this in the Kitchen Knife area as this is more of an educational pursuit inquiry, but I will add that I'm open to offers if somebody were to have a deba they wanted to "unload".

I thank y'all in advance!

ms4awd
06-14-2013, 09:17 AM
The yoshihiro is a good entry level deba from my experience, have not tried the tanaka.. Debas are for rougher use so being that this will be a trial run either of those mentioned will be a good start. If you are a home cook and will not butcher anything really large a 180mm is all you need 210 will be rather large. 180 can still be quite thick and large for smaller fish in the 1-3 lbs range you would just need to adjust a bit and use more towards the tip where the knife will be a bit thinner. if u wont be doing 5kg or larger fish consider a 165mm size as well. Even for a pro kitchen since this will be your first experience with a deba i would not recommend anything larger than a 180mm. Once you get one make sure to put a small micro bevel helps a lot with chipping on bones. Hope this helps.

Mucho Bocho
06-14-2013, 09:24 AM
Marc, I've hd my deba for two years now. Its a Ichimonji 195 Blue #2 from Blueway. There is a small over grind on the bevel side but the blade is straight. The knife sat on my wall for six month before I used it on one fish. Was fun. Because its primarilly designed for fish butchery, I was actually intimidated at using it for other cutting tasks. So My honesuke was not as sharp as I like so I said, lets try the Deba. I was blown away at how easily it broke down the bird. To the extent that I sold my Honesuke.

Duckfat
06-14-2013, 10:21 AM
Marc, I've hd my deba for two years now. Its a Ichimonji 195 Blue #2 from Blueway.

Is this the one you thought was a Chinese knock off ?

Mucho Bocho
06-14-2013, 11:07 AM
You have very good memory. Dave said that the knife had some problems but another knife sharpner said that it looked good. There is a small overgrind but it doesn't make the knife useless. I'd still recommend the manufacturer. The Usuba I got from them was perfect.

Duckfat
06-14-2013, 11:14 AM
Glad to hear that about the Deba. I was pretty bummed about that because Blueway has had such a good rep. I don't remember the Usuba though so I guess my memories not that good after all! LOL
Any fishing planned for the OBX this season? The Tuna catch this season has been pretty darn sloooooow.

Dave

Mucho Bocho
06-14-2013, 11:42 AM
Actually I'm going up to Mass to chase Blues and Bass in July. If my buddy picks up the Viking 40' that he's eyeing. I think we're going to make a run out to the canyons to hunt Blue Tuna.

I can't say enough good things about Keiichi (Blue Way). One of the few knives that seems to have universal appeal is Yusuke Sakai. I've read very few derogative words about the F&F and grind. However, I bought a 210 white special thin Gyuto and used it for almost a year before noticing that there was an overgrind in the heel area. I bought the knife before being educated about knives (Thanks KKF). I even reviewed it here.

So I sent Keiichi a couple of photos and he accepted the knife back without question or quarrel. In return, I went with the Special thin white 240 instead. Love the knife BTW. Last week I also picked up a Yuke 300mm SS 61hr Suij. I'll post pics in "new purchase" thread. F&F and Grind are the best I have ever seen from any knife.

mhlee
06-14-2013, 11:53 AM
Just because people use a Deba for chicken, that doesn't mean that it should be used for chicken.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/7771-Dispelling-Myths?highlight=deba+chicken

Personally, I would never use a deba for chicken. It's too thin, IMHO.

I have a Gesshin Uraku 180 that I really enjoy using. But, I'm considering making an upgrade soon to a nicer Deba because I cut fish rather regularly, at least for a home cook.

I too would recommend a 180 or 195 for home use. A 195/210 would be good if you cut fish larger than 7 pounds or so. A 180 is good for smaller to medium fish.

Also, before buying a Deba, I recommend watching Jon's videos about single bevel sharpening.

K-Fed
06-14-2013, 11:57 AM
Tanaka does nice work with his single bevel knives as long as you're not looking for something overly flashy. I've had a 210 tanaka deba in blue 2 for a few years now and I was amazed at how little needed to be worked on on it. the grind was great the ura is spot on even and the edge and retention is pretty darn good. The handle, like most tanakas leaves a bit to be desired, it's just a big fat oval, but it doesn't have any real fn'f issues.
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/LetsKillKevy/536845_452592321428111_373337785_n.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/LetsKillKevy/media/536845_452592321428111_373337785_n.jpg.html)
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/LetsKillKevy/IMG_0120.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/LetsKillKevy/media/IMG_0120.jpg.html)
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/LetsKillKevy/IMG_0071.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/LetsKillKevy/media/IMG_0071.jpg.html)

marc4pt0
06-14-2013, 12:10 PM
thanks guys! Guess I should have added that this will be used in a pro kitchen primarily for fish butchery. And thanks for the pics!

Duckfat
06-14-2013, 12:36 PM
I think we're going to make a run out to the canyons to hunt Blue Tuna.


I heard there was a pretty good run of Bluefin off Hatteras early this spring. If you've never done it the Bluefish Bltz in November on the OBX can be an insane amount of fun as long as you have a 4x4 that can handle the beach.
I nearly tripped the trigger earlier in the year on a 180 Masamoto KA but have yet to add one my kit.

Dave

Mucho Bocho
06-14-2013, 12:43 PM
I've read and re-read that you shouldn't use a Deba for chicken by some knife purist. thatís what got me intimidated me in the first place. We'll they're right and wrong.

Did you say "Its too thin." My Deba is 7.5 at the spine. its a freaking ax?

I know my way around the caucus of many animals. Have you seen the Ballottine I made? I might be only a home-cook hero but I deboned that bird Jacques way in under five minutes with minimal cuts.

I like it for the same reasons to use it on fish. You can get close to the bone, the forward weight facilitates easy cutting. the stiffness makes it ideal for boning.

Like I said, I liked it better than my Moritaka Honesuke. My 2 cents

Mucho Bocho
06-14-2013, 12:49 PM
http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s426/dennismpintoii/fish1.jpg (http://s1051.photobucket.com/user/dennismpintoii/media/fish1.jpg.html)

http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s426/dennismpintoii/fish2.jpg (http://s1051.photobucket.com/user/dennismpintoii/media/fish2.jpg.html)

http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s426/dennismpintoii/fish3.jpg (http://s1051.photobucket.com/user/dennismpintoii/media/fish3.jpg.html)

mhlee
06-14-2013, 01:55 PM
I've read and re-read that you shouldn't use a Deba for chicken by some knife purist. thatís what got me intimidated me in the first place. We'll they're right and wrong.

Did you say "Its too thin." My Deba is 7.5 at the spine. its a freaking ax?

I know my way around the caucus of many animals. Have you seen the Ballottine I made? I might be only a home-cook hero but I deboned that bird Jacques way in under five minutes with minimal cuts.

I like it for the same reasons to use it on fish. You can get close to the bone, the forward weight facilitates easy cutting. the stiffness makes it ideal for boning.

Like I said, I liked it better than my Moritaka Honesuke. My 2 cents

Yeah. It's too thin at the edge and it's too thick at the spine for chicken, IMHO.

And, I posted that link because the person who made the comment was Jon. I've also seen Debas Jon has been asked to fix that have been used for things like chicken. If not well taken care of, the edge can be chipped - badly.

But, as seen in that thread, many people use Debas for chicken. I happen to not.

And, anyone can use a given knife for nearly any task, given enough time and skill. The fact that you made a Ballotine is kind of irrelevant. That's like saying I used a honesuki to break down a salmon, which, although I haven't ever done, I know I can, because I know the skeletal structure of salmon and have broken down at least several hundred salmon in my time.

But, saying that it's okay to use a Deba on chicken requires an explanation that, while it's may be okay for deboning, it's likely not the best knife to go banging through cartilage, joints and chicken bones, as that kind of use may result in serious chipping. To each their own, though.

Mucho Bocho
06-14-2013, 02:14 PM
Michael, I'm with you and thanks again for sharing your wisdom, it has served me well over the years.

Totally agree about using it like a clever. I don't use it to chop through bones, but you wouldn't use a honoeuke to do that either. But even Jon said that if you use the proper technique. Hand on spine near heel and with a firm deliberate push, chicken bones can be butchered. Again, I donít use it for that.

I'm not saying that Mr Brodia Uber-knife master is incorrect either.

Its just that the knife is well suited for deboning and partitioning Chicken and I'm sticking to it. Curious how many other sinners are using a deba for land animals.

mzer
06-14-2013, 02:54 PM
I don't tend to cut through bones when breaking down chickens. I cut through joints. Deba is great for the task because you can stay on the bone. Of course, it is great for fish too, but the process of cutting chicken isn't very different from fish, and might be easier on the knife because you don't need to behead the things, or if you do you can just slip the knife between two vertebrae. Now, if you have marginal knife skills, you might think otherwise.

mhlee
06-14-2013, 03:39 PM
Michael, I'm with you and thanks again for sharing your wisdom, it has served me well over the years.

Totally agree about using it like a clever. I don't use it to chop through bones, but you wouldn't use a honoeuke to do that either. But even Jon said that if you use the proper technique. Hand on spine near heel and with a firm deliberate push, chicken bones can be butchered. Again, I donít use it for that.

I'm not saying that Mr Brodia Uber-knife master is incorrect either.

Its just that the knife is well suited for deboning and partitioning Chicken and I'm sticking to it. Curious how many other sinners are using a deba for land animals.

I've certainly futzed around using different knives for purposes other than those that are intended for such knives, so, since it works for you, that's great. And, of course, I agree with you that technique really matters.

I just wanted to bring up that improper use can really damage the edge of a Deba to that people who happen to be reading this thread don't automatically think that it's okay to go chopping chicken bones with a Deba. (I recall seeing pictures here on the forum where someone used a brand new Deba to break down chicken and the result on the edge was not pretty.) That's all.

Mucho Bocho
06-14-2013, 03:50 PM
Michael, I remember that pic. of the mangled deba. Wasn't it No Chop's deba?