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Brad Gibson
06-22-2013, 03:43 AM
Does anyone know any good one sided gyuto makers? I've seen a couple but they are outrageously priced. I'd really like to get one. It seems like such a cool idea.

El Pescador
06-22-2013, 03:51 AM
Sugimoto

Brad Gibson
06-22-2013, 03:57 AM
I only see a double bevel gyuto on their site

James
06-22-2013, 04:01 AM
Aritsugu A type is pretty close from what I remember.

JBroida
06-22-2013, 04:03 AM
almost all gyutos from japan are double bevel... to this day, i havent seen a true single bevel gyuto from japan. Now, highly asymmetric... thats a different story.

franzb69
06-22-2013, 04:05 AM
TC Blades makes a single bevel gyuto.

eshua
06-22-2013, 05:30 AM
I always wondered about this too.

Want something to beat on for negi, cucumber, shallot and all the other things we have to bang out thin.

"highly asymmetric..." will be what you need after a few sharpening, but I always hate the idea of buying a high class 50/50 and then grinding the crap out of it.

Stumblinman
06-22-2013, 05:33 AM
I always thought that a gyuto was a Japanese made 'western' style blade. Hence the double bevel ?

pkjames
06-22-2013, 07:43 AM
that has to be kiritsuke.

Zwiefel
06-22-2013, 08:07 AM
Whats the diff between a true single bevel gyuto (with ura) and a large deba?



that has to be kiritsuke.

I thought kiritsuke was a cross btween a deba and a yanagiba?

Lefty
06-22-2013, 08:23 AM
TC Blades gyutos are heavy, in your face, solid, gyutos with a "virtual single bevel", as I call it. The micro bevel is more like a regular bevel on a laser (small, but definitely there). The bevel on the other side, however, is done just like any single bevel knife. It creates a very different feeling gyuto, but they really are worth experiencing. I like mine quite a bit (and I' sayin this, not as a vendor, but as a member, since I don't have his gyutos on my site).

As for what makes a "single bevel gyuto" different than a deba. In my opinion, that's blade thickness, no ura and much less upsweep at the tip. That's just my opinion.

pkjames
06-22-2013, 09:40 AM
IIRC, there is a yanagiba profile and a more "regular profile" for kiritsuke. But in terms of use, i remember seeing somewhere saying a kiritsuke more or less serves the same function as a gyuto (does pretty much everything).

bkdc
06-22-2013, 09:41 AM
I've had no difficulty banging away with my asymmetric grind gyutos and producing paper-thin slices of cucumber. I don't know where a single bevel will help you that much. Learning how to use an usuba requires some time.

franzb69
06-22-2013, 09:59 AM
my single bevel old hickory 10 inch chef knife (bought it that way) works the same way as any other chef knife i've used.

Zwiefel
06-22-2013, 09:59 AM
TC Blades gyutos are heavy, in your face, solid, gyutos with a "virtual single bevel", as I call it. The micro bevel is more like a regular bevel on a laser (small, but definitely there). The bevel on the other side, however, is done just like any single bevel knife. It creates a very different feeling gyuto, but they really are worth experiencing. I like mine quite a bit (and I' sayin this, not as a vendor, but as a member, since I don't have his gyutos on my site).As for what makes a "single bevel gyuto" different than a deba. In my opinion, that's blade thickness, no ura and much less upsweep at the tip. That's just my opinion.If there's no ura, is it actually a single-bevel? Or is that just part of a "japanese single-bevel?"

knyfeknerd
06-22-2013, 10:11 AM
I thought kiritsuke was a cross btween a deba and a yanagiba?
I think it's yanagi and usuba

Duckfat
06-22-2013, 10:19 AM
I hope Jon will chime in on this because I always thought a Kiritsuke was a Gyuto/Yanagi cross.

knyfeknerd
06-22-2013, 10:20 AM
I think Brad is asking this because(I think) he is really really really wanting to get into the single-bevel world.
Brad, I think once you get to use/own one, you probably wouldn't really want a gyuto with a single bevel. Yes, my traditional single-bevel knives are awesome and scary-sharp, but the edges tend to be fragile and are better suited to each task they were originally created for.

pkjames
06-22-2013, 10:55 AM
I am pretty sure yanigiba/deba combo is a Mioroshi deba.

cclin
06-22-2013, 11:06 AM
TC Blades gyutos are heavy, in your face, solid, gyutos with a "virtual single bevel", as I call it. The micro bevel is more like a regular bevel on a laser (small, but definitely there). The bevel on the other side, however, is done just like any single bevel knife. It creates a very different feeling gyuto, but they really are worth experiencing. I like mine quite a bit (and I' sayin this, not as a vendor, but as a member, since I don't have his gyutos on my site).

As for what makes a "single bevel gyuto" different than a deba. In my opinion, that's blade thickness, no ura and much less upsweep at the tip. That's just my opinion.
yep!! my 240mm TC blade just about everything LEFTY describe! not a true Japanese single bevel(no ura) but close enough. weight 228g, spine wide 3mm, heel height 51mm. TC blade gyuto cut really nice but it will wedge on extra tall hard root vegetable. I purchased this gyuto to learn how to cut/sharpen Japanese single bevel knife, very interesting knife to working with....
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s482/54cclin/20130429_182638_zps670b36a1.jpg (http://s1054.photobucket.com/user/54cclin/media/20130429_182638_zps670b36a1.jpg.html)
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s482/54cclin/20130622_055751_zps3063d61d.jpg (http://s1054.photobucket.com/user/54cclin/media/20130622_055751_zps3063d61d.jpg.html)
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s482/54cclin/20130622_060221_zps7faa628f.jpg (http://s1054.photobucket.com/user/54cclin/media/20130622_060221_zps7faa628f.jpg.html)

jgraeff
06-22-2013, 11:33 AM
Cclin- that is a nice blade there!!

i have never used a true single bevel with ura, but i sharpen most of my gyutos with a 70/30. My last one from Luke Snyder is an 80/20 or even 90/10 very asymmetric. The knife is super sharp. and i quite like it. However i dont see how a true single bevel would help you. If your bevel is too wide on the front it will cause steering i would think.

Pensacola Tiger
06-22-2013, 11:37 AM
I think it's yanagi and usuba

+! We have a winner. And it is in no way a substitute for a gyuto.

Zwiefel
06-22-2013, 11:43 AM
+! We have a winner. And it is in no way a substitute for a gyuto.Thanks PT/KK. I agree with KK's other statement though: once I got a single-bevel (a few days ago to be honest) I view it as something totally different from the double-bevel profiles like gyuto. Like trying to compare a screwdriver to a crescent wrench.

JKerr
06-22-2013, 12:16 PM
If you just want something with an asymmetrical grind then there are plenty of options. If you actually want something with an "true single bevel grind", then the only ones I can think of are the Suinsin Momizi funayuki in gin3 or white steel (gin3 only goes up to 210mm) or the Sakai Takayuki Denshin Denshou line, both pretty expensive though. Here's some links:

http://www.chefsarmoury.com/kitchen-knives-by-brand/sakai-takayuki/denshin-denshou/denshin-denshou-240mm-wa-gyuto/prod_1325.html
http://www.suisin.co.jp/English/dreamcraft/momizi/index.htm

Cheers,
Josh

JBroida
06-22-2013, 01:54 PM
just a few things for reference:
kiritsuke= combination of yanagiba and usuba
mirorishi deba= combination of yanagiba and deba
funayuki= thin deba used for aji, saba, etc.

and single bevel gyutos do exist, they just tend to be made by western custom makers based on a misunderstanding of japanese knives (like many people seem to think that all japanese knives are single bevel, but dont understand the way the knives are constructed or the what the single bevel knives are often used for)

Also, once an for all, kiritsuke ≠ gyuto

Patatas Bravas
06-22-2013, 02:46 PM
Well, I guess it's things like this that confuse people, a so-called 'kiritsuke-gyuto'


https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1044041_598047876892728_940817894_n.jpg


So not a real kiritsuke then? I suppose it's a gyuto with a kiritsuke-shaped tip?

mhlee
06-22-2013, 03:11 PM
So not a real kiritsuke then? I suppose it's a gyuto with a kiritsuke-shaped tip?

It's not a single bevel knife; therefore, it's not a kiritsuke. It is as you supposed.

JBroida
06-22-2013, 03:33 PM
yes, you are correct... that is not a kiritsuke. It is, however, a gyuto... just one that happens to have the kiritsuke-style tip. It is a double bevel knife.

Brad Gibson
06-22-2013, 03:44 PM
I saw someone post a pic of a single bevel gyuto on the newest knife but section. That's what really sparked my interest. It just seems like it would be a fun knife for me. I am so highly addicted to knives now. You guys have turned me into an addict!

Duckfat
06-22-2013, 04:06 PM
Gotta love this place. There's always something new to learn.

Patatas Bravas
06-22-2013, 04:09 PM
I saw someone post a pic of a single bevel gyuto on the newest knife but section. That's what really sparked my interest. It just seems like it would be a fun knife for me. I am so highly addicted to knives now. You guys have turned me into an addict!

Which one was that?

JBroida
06-22-2013, 04:10 PM
maybe the HHH one that he did a while back (again, a custom made knife at the customers request)

Brad Gibson
06-22-2013, 04:17 PM
Lol I can't find the newest knife buy section. What is it under? I always find it on what's new tab

Patatas Bravas
06-22-2013, 04:22 PM
Maybe you mean this Ajikataya? Heavily asymmetric, but not 1-bevelled.

http://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u595/huwjones1983/ECBD2643-ACDE-4712-B298-7CF8AA3873C2-7355-0000053938C9EECB_zpsb7c67cc2.jpg

JBroida
06-22-2013, 04:22 PM
its close to 50/50... i know that knife... its got that same bevel on the other side

Brad Gibson
06-22-2013, 04:23 PM
Oh, yeah that was it. It looked like a single bevel. Thanks for clearing it up Jon!

Brad Gibson
06-22-2013, 04:24 PM
That knife is such a beauty!

Patatas Bravas
06-22-2013, 04:27 PM
its close to 50/50... i know that knife... its got that same bevel on the other side

I haven't seen it in person - just paraphrasing Von Blewitt, the proud owner, who told me something to this effect.

JBroida
06-22-2013, 04:31 PM
having seen more of hinoura-san's work than anyone here and also having spent more time in his workshop, i feel very comfortable saying that that particular knife has the same looking bevel on the other side. The edge itself may be asymmetric, but thats about it. I've got a some of that line here in front of me to confirm.

Brad Gibson
06-22-2013, 04:33 PM
Would you even recommend the idea of a single bevel gyuto Jon?

JBroida
06-22-2013, 04:34 PM
nope

Brad Gibson
06-22-2013, 04:40 PM
I also saw this black mirror finished single bevel gyuto a while back on the site not allowed here. But it was outrageous prices. Probably reasonable prices for the finish.... I was just looking for something more humble.

Brad Gibson
06-22-2013, 04:53 PM
The knife I'm referring to is made by an itto-ryu. Do you know of him or have you tried any of his knives Jon?

Seth
06-22-2013, 05:58 PM
nope

Why? Sounds interesting to me.

eshua
06-22-2013, 06:14 PM
No single bevel grind, no to sharpening 99% / 1% on the primary edge, or or both?

mpukas
06-22-2013, 06:29 PM
Why? Sounds interesting to me.

edge would be too fragile for gyuto work repeatedly hitting the board; single bevel would steer terribly in food items taller than the bevel; would wedge in tall food items due to thick spine - most single bevel knives (except something like a fugubiki) are thicker at the spine than most gyuto (expect something like a Heiji, Kato, etc).

JBroida
06-22-2013, 06:49 PM
i've seen them in person, and sharpened some, but not what mark is calling black mirror.

cclin
06-22-2013, 07:05 PM
edge would be too fragile for gyuto work repeatedly hitting the board; single bevel would steer terribly in food items taller than the bevel; would wedge in tall food items due to thick spine - most single bevel knives (except something like a fugubiki) are thicker at the spine than most gyuto (expect something like a Heiji, Kato, etc).

my experience with TC blade gyuto, I don't feel edge is fragile with the micro bevel on back side. I agree it has steer & wedge issue when cutting food taller than shinogi line.....

schanop
06-22-2013, 07:19 PM
Just go and grab PT's newly listed Suisin Gin Momiji up in B/S/T.

Patatas Bravas
06-23-2013, 08:17 AM
Maybe you mean this Ajikataya? Heavily asymmetric, but not 1-bevelled.

its close to 50/50... i know that knife... its got that same bevel on the other side

I haven't seen it in person - just paraphrasing Von Blewitt, the proud owner, who told me something to this effect.

having seen more of hinoura-san's work than anyone here and also having spent more time in his workshop, i feel very comfortable saying that that particular knife has the same looking bevel on the other side. The edge itself may be asymmetric, but thats about it. I've got a some of that line here in front of me to confirm.

Well, if that's the only proof you can come up with then I'm not at all convinced! :whistling:

Chef Doom
06-23-2013, 03:27 PM
Jon, I think you should have a special project to have a true single bevel gyuto made, then do a pass around on the forum, then there will be a general understanding of how ridiculous the whole concept is, and no one will bring up the idea again. First hand experience is key.

Naturally you will have to eat the cost, consider it an early Xmas gift to the forum. If you need help I have $5 to spare. I just got paid yesterday. :lol2:

Brad Gibson
06-23-2013, 03:43 PM
Lol!!! That suisin single bevel gyuto that PT sold on b/s/t recently doesn't seem that absurd. It actually looks pretty awesome. The major thing for me is; does it just look super awesome, or can it perform well also? If it is as sharp as I think it can be, you could keep a toothy edge on it and achieve a more sharp edge than a 50/50. If it doesn't steer itself all over the board and lose its edge in minutes I think it could be of great value in a pro kitchen.

JBroida
06-23-2013, 03:47 PM
The suisin momiji funayuki is not a gyuto... its a type of deba used specifically for saba, aji, and the like. In most areas in japan, that is what funayuki is. The only exception is in rural areas, they sometimes make them double bevel, but they are still deba-like knives. Only in the US is funayuki a type of gyuto.

JBroida
06-23-2013, 03:48 PM
No single bevel grind, no to sharpening 99% / 1% on the primary edge, or or both?

Single bevel gyutos in general dont make sense... the grind makes much less sense than a highly asymmetric edge, but neither is a good idea.

Brad Gibson
06-23-2013, 03:50 PM
Jon hates this thread, I'm just gonna stop with it. Happy birthday Jon lol

JBroida
06-23-2013, 04:10 PM
lol...actually, its an important thread... a lot of people misunderstand these things, so i'm glad we're talking about them

keithsaltydog
06-23-2013, 04:19 PM
Single bevel gyutos in general dont make sense... the grind makes much less sense than a highly asymmetric edge, but neither is a good idea.

Interesting I thin assem. gyuto's shallow angle close to the stone on both sides.Been doing your higher final bevel just on the cutting side,removing burr on backside.It is not a single bevel,but if you do this every time major sharpening the knife it takes on a more assem. flavor.I have done this to a couple of my J-Gyuto & they cut very well to me anyway.I have known Japanese National cooks here that sharpen their Gyuto's just on the cutting side.

JBroida
06-23-2013, 04:23 PM
asymmetrical is not bad, but double bevel knives are not designed to be sharpened to 90/10 or 99/1 asymmetries. Also, keep in mind that even if chefs do this (and even if they are japanese), many of them have their knives fixed by professional sharpeners who do not do this. I used to sharpen this way also, until i went to japan and started learning under chefs, but more importantly, professional sharpeners there. Not one person that i've trained under in japan sharpens double bevel knives that way. Moreover, not one professional sharpener in Japan that i've talked to (and i know quite a few) think this is a good idea (and i've asked all of them).

Marko Tsourkan
06-23-2013, 04:50 PM
Single beveled gyuto, or suji or any western knife doesn't make much sense - there is a good reason why there is only one or two makers who produce them.

Hybrid honesuki/mukimono/paring knife is the only knife in my opinion that could see a limited use and most of it will come from fabricating poultry.

M

jonnachang
06-23-2013, 05:28 PM
I believe the only true single-beveled gyuto Ivet ever seen was Ichimonji Mitsuhide, It was western handled.

Marko Tsourkan
06-23-2013, 05:40 PM
I think I have seen that one back on the old forum. Now I wonder what the purpose of that knife was.

M

Chef Doom
06-23-2013, 08:43 PM
I think the purpose of a single bevel gyuto serves the same purpose as a rolex watch that doesn't work. It's the fact that you were able to obtain and own one even though it doesn't serve it's original purpose very well.

Marko Tsourkan
06-23-2013, 08:48 PM
I think the purpose of a single bevel gyuto serves the same purpose as a rolex watch that doesn't work. It's the fact that you were able to obtain and own one even though it doesn't serve it's original purpose very well.

I don't know of a Rolex watch with a flawed design. A broken Rolex can fixed, but a single beveled gyuto can't, unless you regrind it into a much smaller double-beveled knife, but the work you have to put into it, makes it not worth it.

It's simply a flawed design by whoever doesn't understand the purpose of a chefs knife in Western cuisine. And that is the reason you don't see single-beveled gyutos out there, well, almost.

Asymmetric bevel is often seen on a knife that is flat ground somewhat thick edge (I would say .020-.025") thick and then a wide bevel cut on one side and deburred on the other. The thicker the edge, the wider the bevel has to be to cut, so some of folks can confuse it for a single bevel, but it is not.

A

Chef Doom
06-24-2013, 04:21 PM
I don't know of a Rolex watch with a flawed design. A broken Rolex can fixed, but a single beveled gyuto can't, unless you regrind it into a much smaller double-beveled knife, but the work you have to put into it, makes it not worth it.


Hahahaha, you win this round Marko. I can't argue with that. :thumbsup:

I just hope people got the general point I was trying to make.