PDA

View Full Version : What About Kiritsuke



BJE1
06-29-2013, 06:32 PM
As of late the kiritsuke style of knife seems to be popping up more in kitchens that me and my friends work in. I have also noticed that there are starting to be more manufactures making single and double bevel versions of the kiritsuke now. What do you think the reasons is for this? Also what are the real advantages and disadvantages of that style of knife?

Mingooch
06-29-2013, 06:45 PM
because it is one of the better looking shapes out there, maybe not as functional as a standard gyuto IMHO, but it looks so dam nice.

mkriggen
06-29-2013, 06:46 PM
I have a 240 Yoshikane kiritsuke/gyuto and like it very much. The main advantage is that it has a much flatter profile then regular gyutos making it very efficient at straight chopping and push cutting. The main disadvantage is that it has a much flatter profile then regular gyutos, making it less efficient slicing veggies or raw meats, and don't even think about rock chopping:scared4:

Oh, and they look cool as sh%t:viking:

Mike9
06-29-2013, 06:55 PM
I have a Kono HD 270 kiritsuke gyuto and it's a killer knife. Very thin, great profile and great steel. I find the tip to be very agile when breaking down cuts of meat pre and post cooking. The Kono has enough belly to it that I don't have a problem processing veg with it at all.

Oh yeah and as mentioned - it looks cool as sh*t :viking:

Here's mine:
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc489/mikel9nine/kono2_zps96e10887.jpg

mkriggen
06-29-2013, 08:14 PM
I have a Kono HD 270 kiritsuke gyuto and it's a killer knife. Very thin, great profile and great steel. I find the tip to be very agile when breaking down cuts of meat pre and post cooking. The Kono has enough belly to it that I don't have a problem processing veg with it at all.

Ok, probably should have been a little more specific. I think it works great for things like cutting a rib roast into steaks or a pork loin into chops. What I think it doesn't do as well as a regular gyuto is cubing up less firm meats like poultry or loose, fatty pork (mmmmm...pork:drool: )where you find yourself in contact with the board for the whole slice. Oh, and my knife skills still suck, so that may have something to do with it. As to veggies, ok, I've never had any problems with slicing veggies either but I wanted to throw something in there to make all the non-kiritsuke owning wretches feel better about their knives:D

JBroida
06-30-2013, 01:33 AM
can we just as a rule call this kind of knife kiritsuke-shaped wa-gyuto which is what it really is... i think calling it kiritsuke (which it is not) leads to a lot of unnecessary confusion for many

echerub
06-30-2013, 02:20 AM
I second that. A kiritsuke-shaped gyuto is exactly that - a gyuto with a different profile and a cool-looking tip. A single-bevel kiritsuke is a different beast, arguably cooler than a kiritsuke-gyuto (hey, I'm biased on this one!) but it isn't made to do what a gyuto is asked to do in the kitchen.

ThEoRy
06-30-2013, 02:35 AM
Here's some fun math...

Usuba + Yanagiba = Kiritsuke

Kiritsuke = Single Bevel Knife

:D

knyfeknerd
06-30-2013, 02:43 AM
The kiritsuke tipped gyuto looks cool and functions well too. I find the flat edge and pointed tip to be more "fine dice" friendly than a lot of standard gyutos. The K-tipyuto isn't very rock-chop friendly, it just all depends on your style/technique
I think we all need to adopt some new kind of name for the Kiritsuke tip gyuto, to alleviate the confusion of calling it a Kiritsuke. They are only similar in the shape of the tip.
I suggest:
Kiritsukyuto
Kiritipi-yuto
Gyutokitsuke

JBroida
06-30-2013, 02:45 AM
honestly, its commonly called either kiritsuke-shaped gyuto or wa-kiritsuke among craftsmen i speak with in Japan (its a recent design too)

ThEoRy
06-30-2013, 02:46 AM
The kiritsuke tipped gyuto looks cool and functions well too. I find the flat edge and pointed tip to be more "fine dice" friendly than a lot of standard gyutos. The K-tipyuto isn't very rock-chop friendly, it just all depends on your style/technique
I think we all need to adopt some new kind of name for the Kiritsuke tip gyuto, to alleviate the confusion of calling it a Kiritsuke. They are only similar in the shape of the tip.
I suggest:
Kiritsukyuto
Kiritipi-yuto
Gyutokitsuke



That's........ even more complicated. Sword tip Gyuto.

JBroida
06-30-2013, 02:55 AM
for those that want to be dorky and japanese, that would translate to kengata gyuto or kensaki gyuto

knyfeknerd
06-30-2013, 02:58 AM
That's........ even more complicated. Sword tip Gyuto.
Nope, not specific enough.
What kind of sword?
A Rapier-tip gyuto?
A Claymore-tip gyuto?
A Panzerstecher-tip gyuto?
A Bastard tip?
A Khopesh-tip?
A Spartan-tip?
A Hopite-tip?
Last but not least.............
.....the Samurai Tip!!!!!?????!??!?!?????

ThEoRy
06-30-2013, 03:02 AM
.....the Samurai Tip!!!!!?????!??!?!?????


That's the one.

ThEoRy
06-30-2013, 03:03 AM
kengata gyuto or kensaki gyuto


That. Let's call them that.

JBroida
06-30-2013, 03:08 AM
makes sense to me (and sorry for derailing the thread... its a personal pet peeve)

mkriggen
06-30-2013, 05:55 AM
makes sense to me (and sorry for derailing the thread... its a personal pet peeve)
LOL...I'm with you on this. I try to make sure that I use kiritsuke/gyuto, not just kiritsuke because they are completely different beasts. The times I don't make the distinction are generally when I feel the context makes it clear. Does that make sense? Anyway, even if it's not a true kiritsuke (i.e. single bevel sword tip) the kiritsuke style gyuto can be a great knife and is probably far more useful to most people then a true kiritsuke. Again, have to ask, does that make sense? It's late, I've had some wine, may be talking out of my a$$.

Be well,
Mikey

mikemac
06-30-2013, 10:17 AM
the latest love affair with the new black (and hopefully last with this style....), the spawn of western marketing meets Japanese traditional knives. It really is a cool looking blade, but it's also the santuko of blades over 210mm.
As a gyuto replacement, I would find the relatively low blade height, pointy tip and ultra flat edge profile to be a disadvantage to my knife technique or demands

Mike9
06-30-2013, 11:05 AM
Kensaki Gyuto sounds good to me - and we're not adding an extra word and a hyphen. Just because it's a long knife doesn't mean it needs a long name. :lol2:

knyfeknerd
06-30-2013, 11:34 AM
I like my name ideas better. I'm going to start using all of them depending on my mood at the time.

ThEoRy
06-30-2013, 11:39 AM
A true kiritsuke may be the only blade shape left for me to acquire. Though I may not be worthy enough yet. Maybe after my usuba skills rise up. ?

Zwiefel
06-30-2013, 10:51 PM
hey, I'm biased on this one!

Heh...biased...single-bevel...I can smell what you're cooking....:lol2:

kungpao
07-01-2013, 01:19 AM
Can someone explain, other than aesthetics, what a kirutske style gyuto would be nice to have over a regular gyuto? Also what is a traditional single bevel kirutske used for?

Zwiefel
07-01-2013, 01:22 AM
Can someone explain, other than aesthetics, what a kirutske style gyuto would be nice to have over a regular gyuto? Also what is a traditional single bevel kirutske used for?

IMO, they are just a little more pointy than most gyuto's....that's it.

I think the single-bevels are a compromise for veggies + raw fish slicing.

JBroida
07-01-2013, 01:22 AM
a traditional single bevel kiritsuke is a combination of the functions of yanagiba and usuba... you can see examples of those two knives in these videos here if you would like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FSIn3i1GQU&list=PL8FA659765DC4698E&feature=view_all

Sarge
07-04-2013, 11:24 AM
To answer the question the kiri-gyuto is very usefull depending on what technique you use to cut with. If you primarily rock chop it isn't going to be great for you. If you do mostly push cuts similar to those done with usuba or Kiritsuke on veg then it is very useful. Basically it is a flatter profiled gyuto so if a flatter edge fits what you do then its great for you if you prefer or need more belly don't get one.

Aesthetics aside I love the flatter profiles and find no drawbacks to having one. Adjustments might need to be made but you'll find that with every knife especially if you are looking to keep a small kit. If more makers made flatter profiles on gyutos without the sword tip then I would be inclined to give them more of a look. As it is besides looking awesome for me it is a functional difference that I like and look for in my knives. I also have a single bevel Kiritsuke and Usuba and between the
Kiritsuke and Usuba my regular shaped gyuto is the least used knife in my kit. I had been working in a Japanese kitchen until last weekend so I'm sure that contributed to the decline of my gyuto use, but we'll see if the trend is able to continue once I find a new spot to work at.
Sorry to bring this back but I just saw it and wanted to add my 2 cents

Saccogoo
07-04-2013, 02:12 PM
IMO, the kensaki gyutos (thanks for that Jon) are good at veggie prep when you have larger/longer items without the thicker skins. They also work well in mincing a boat load of herbs such as cilantro or parsley when using a hammer cut all over the board as they tend to be really thin and can get sharp which will help in minimizing the bruising of the herbs (though your edge is going to pay the price for such a use).

I've got one and it's pretty limited because of the extremely flat profile coupled with the very thin blade. I've got to force myself to use it over the other blades in my kit, but it does have a cool factor in terms of the aesthetics.

Personally, I think a true kiritsuke would have more applications due to the thicker blade. (I keep eyeballing that Suisin Densyo on Jon's site.)

mast3quila
07-04-2013, 02:57 PM
I keep looking at that Suisin too but I'm thinking that I'll get a real Usuba next. My nakiri gets a ton of work but I think the girls would enjoy some katsuramuki veggies on their plates.

keithsaltydog
07-04-2013, 03:32 PM
A true kiritsuke may be the only blade shape left for me to acquire. Though I may not be worthy enough yet. Maybe after my usuba skills rise up. ?

He He do you really need an excuse to buy another knife.Besides a Single Bevel Kiritsuke is so friggen cool.:knife:

Sarge
07-04-2013, 07:05 PM
IMO, the kensaki gyutos... I've got one and it's pretty limited because of the extremely flat profile coupled with the very thin blade. I've got to force myself to use it over the other blades in my kit, but it does have a cool factor in terms of the aesthetics.

Personally, I think a true kiritsuke would have more applications due to the thicker blade. (I keep eyeballing that Suisin Densyo on Jon's site.)

Personally I don't understand how people see these as limited it is a gyuto after all. Perhaps using it has just become second nature to me and my cutting techniques are such as to make the most of the shape. I don't quite understand how thicker skins make a difference with the kensaki gyuto.

As for the single bevels having more uses due to thicker blade this is actually not quite true. It wouldn't be good for splitting sweet potato or any sort of squash although slicing sweet potato into planks of whatever width for tempura the kiritsuke and usuba are awesome at that. At least I find them awesome at it after years of use I certainly didn't at first

There really aren't limits to what a kensaki gyuto vs traditional gyuto can do just depends n the user and technique and realizing the different profile requitres a different approach

ThEoRy
07-04-2013, 11:31 PM
Personally I don't understand how people see these as limited it is a gyuto after all. Perhaps using it has just become second nature to me and my cutting techniques are such as to make the most of the shape. I don't quite understand how thicker skins make a difference with the kensaki gyuto.

As for the single bevels having more uses due to thicker blade this is actually not quite true. It wouldn't be good for splitting sweet potato or any sort of squash although slicing sweet potato into planks of whatever width for tempura the kiritsuke and usuba are awesome at that. At least I find them awesome at it after years of use I certainly didn't at first

There really aren't limits to what a kensaki gyuto vs traditional gyuto can do just depends n the user and technique and realizing the different profile requitres a different approach

I think he means the flat profile. However that depends on the maker so it can not be said of all kensakai, no?

ThEoRy
07-04-2013, 11:31 PM
He He do you really need an excuse to buy another knife.Besides a Single Bevel Kiritsuke is so friggen cool.:knife:

Well if I really needed an excuse it would be, "I'm still really good at slicing with it."

edredlee
07-07-2013, 05:16 AM
If you are really into the kiritsuke shaped gyuto yet don't want to buy a new knite, while you have a gyuto that's just a tad too long for your liking?? Take it to the DMT and some stones! It's easy to create that dramatic angled edge and then you just gotta smooth it out and thin your knife out a bit! I've done it on one of my utilities and it took some elbow grease but totally worth the effort!