PDA

View Full Version : Issue with grind on new Konosuke White #2 suji



WiscoNole
07-01-2013, 07:17 PM
I just got a 300mm Kono suji and there is an issue with the 3-4cm closest to the heel. With the heel resting on a level surface, there is a 1.5-2cm area that does not make contact with the board before the contact is reestablished about 3cm from the heel. It makes for a very awkward feel when making a rocking motion.

My question is: will this work itself out with a little time on the stones or do I need to exchange the knife?

Sorry for lack of pics, I'm getting crappy reception right now and it would take forever to upload.

WiscoNole
07-01-2013, 08:09 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/whatsamcgee/20130701_180604_zps8463e9f4.jpg

mhlee
07-01-2013, 08:12 PM
Is there a grind issue in that area as well, i.e., an overgrind?

schanop
07-01-2013, 08:16 PM
If it is only the edge, or lack there of, it would take you just a few minutes on the right stone.

But if what Michael suspects is true, then you'd have got a yuzu.

Crothcipt
07-01-2013, 08:20 PM
yep, if you try to just lower the heel of the knife you still have a problem with the center being to high, thus you still will have the issue. I would send that pic with the knife back, see what they say.

Pensacola Tiger
07-01-2013, 08:22 PM
yep, if you try to just lower the heel of the knife you still have a problem with the center being to high, thus you still will have the issue. I would send that pic with the knife back, see what they say.

+1

labor of love
07-01-2013, 08:50 PM
yeah, if you try and sharpen it-then try and return it you might be out of luck.

keithsaltydog
07-01-2013, 10:46 PM
Think a Suji more of a slicer than rock cutting.If you don't like it give a call & see if they accept that as a return.If you put it to the stones cannot return.

A little overgrind is an easy fix when thinning esp. white steel.As a slicer,fruits,veg.,& meats a tiny rise at the heal is not critical to slicing motion.

Dave Martell
07-01-2013, 11:23 PM
How does an experienced dealer not see this before shipping?

I say to return it and make them pay for the shipping. If you try to fix this and the repair doesn't work out then you're screwed.

WiscoNole
07-01-2013, 11:52 PM
Thanks for the advice. I will be exchanging it.

franzb69
07-02-2013, 12:18 AM
is that from the unmentionable site? i don't see why they keep defending the fit and finish of konosuke knives when i keep bringing up issues like these to them.

labor of love
07-02-2013, 12:25 AM
on marks forum, ive read repeatedly that konosuke fit and finish is on par with suisin inox honyaki. yeah right! and i love konosuke HDs but give me a break.

franzb69
07-02-2013, 12:47 AM
they should just accept that there are issues, admit that there are times they neglect on their inspection for quality (on mark's side and konosuke's side) and just take it back then have it replaced. then make steps towards not letting it happen again. knives with prices like these should not have fit and finish issues. there is no excuse.

chinacats
07-02-2013, 12:51 AM
^^ reminds me of moritaka blue

schanop
07-02-2013, 12:51 AM
May be we think it is an issue, but the seller/maker don't :-)

knyfeknerd
07-02-2013, 01:09 AM
Deja vu -all over again.

WiscoNole
07-02-2013, 01:10 AM
It is pretty ridiculous, considering it's a $323.00 knife

labor of love
07-02-2013, 01:26 AM
honestly, its pretty ridiculous that knife is priced at $323.

chinacats
07-02-2013, 01:30 AM
it would be ridiculous even at half that price...

Squilliam
07-02-2013, 02:27 AM
Definitely not a difficult thing to fix. I would not send it back, myself.

labor of love
07-02-2013, 03:07 AM
Definitely not a difficult thing to fix. I would not send it back, myself. sure, but screw it. let the vendor deal with it.

chefcomesback
07-02-2013, 03:39 AM
SEND IT BACK!
I am sure you can fix it but do you think you have to fix a $323 brand new knife with "great f&f" ?
If you lived over this side of the world , where you have to worry about shipment costs a lot maybe not, but when you are in US : I would send it back
We are not talking about $50 yamawaku project..

JKerr
07-02-2013, 03:55 AM
I had the same issue with my Konosuke #6. Only took me a few minutes to fix and there's no sign of an over grind. Having said that, I don't think I'd buy another Konosuke; it feels nice and the profile's good, but I get some mad sticktion on certain parts and although the F+F issue when ootb wasn't a big deal I'd still expect more from a $370 knife from a company that's held in high regard. Frankly, there's better cleavers for the price.

shaneg
07-02-2013, 04:00 AM
Definitely not a difficult thing to fix. I would not send it back, myself.
Either would I, only because of our location.
But if you bought it from, say, house of knives I'd take it back.
How are they going to know about issues if no one points them out?

labor of love
07-02-2013, 04:13 AM
honestly, its pretty ridiculous that knife is priced at $323.

what i meant is that for this kind of money, you can definitely get similar knives from Sakai with better fit & finish.

Squilliam
07-02-2013, 04:55 AM
Personally, I find that sharpening/fixing a knife endears it to me. No matter how much a knife costs, if you use it, it will require a lot of sharpening, thinning and polishing over it's life. Doing a little of this work when it's right off the self doesn't make a difference to me, and the hassle of shipping back and forth does not seem worth it.

I don't mean to sound rude, but if you can't handle an imperfection like this, then your not prepared to look after the knife though it's life.

But the vendor should definitely be made aware of this fault. Perhaps some store credit wouldn't go amiss either :)

Timthebeaver
07-02-2013, 06:03 AM
The craftsmen should not let a blade like this leave the shop, period.

franzb69
07-02-2013, 06:45 AM
what i meant is that for this kind of money, you can definitely get similar knives from Sakai with better fit & finish.

like the yusuke's and they'd be actually cheaper. =D


The craftsmen should not let a blade like this leave the shop, period.

back when i had a business and i tried to keep the quality of workmanship up, my employees and partners would hate me for it, but i just did what i had to do coz noone else would.

chinacats
07-02-2013, 10:33 AM
The craftsmen should not let a blade like this leave the shop, period.

Neither should the vendor...

Dave Martell
07-02-2013, 11:50 AM
For those who say that they'd keep it and fix it I'm going to say that this is taking a chance because what if the issue is an overgrind from the side of the knife down into the edge? If that's the case then there's no fixing it through sharpening and it's also possible that sharpening can make the problem appear worse. To me there's to much at risk here for the consumer to take a chance.

Dave Martell
07-02-2013, 11:53 AM
For sure the maker/manufacturer, the distributor (Konesuke), and then the vendor should have caught this along it's path to the consumer. If you handle knives all of the time and look at them critically this type of thing stands out like a sore thumb.

EdipisReks
07-02-2013, 12:42 PM
For those who say that they'd keep it and fix it I'm going to say that this is taking a chance because what if the issue is an overgrind from the side of the knife down into the edge? If that's the case then there's no fixing it through sharpening and it's also possible that sharpening can make the problem appear worse. To me there's to much at risk here for the consumer to take a chance.

lots of Japanese knives have holes in the edge in front of the heel, especially ones that are sharpened on a wheel. rarely have i seen one that was caused by what you're describing, though it is, for sure, something i've seen, and it's fairly obvious when it is. 99/100 what is pictured is fixed the first time the knife is sharpened. since every knife i own is going to be thinned repeatedly over its life, and very often immediately, i'm not even sure i'm all that worried about over grinds on the side, unless they are really atrocious.

Marko Tsourkan
07-02-2013, 01:03 PM
How does an experienced dealer not see this before shipping?

I say to return it and make them pay for the shipping. If you try to fix this and the repair doesn't work out then you're screwed.

A dealer sometimes is not well equipped to see these things, but maker is. I think the question should be asked why a maker would send out a knife that clearly needs to be re-profiled. I can't tell the extent of this hollow, it might be minor or major, depending if there is a dip in the side of the blade above the edge or just a minute over-grind on the edge.

M

PS: I see dips in the edge all the time, even from well respected US and Japanese makers. Most are too minor to really matter, unless on the heel, as then you get an extended rocking.

Sharpening would take care of it if the dip is at the edge and you are careful to remove metal along the edge except at that spot (if overgrind is on the side of the blade, then the dip might remain even after re-profiling. You would need to remove much more metal from the edge and heavily thin or regrind, to get rid of it), but best would be to reprofile on DMT plate or equivalent, then thin, then sharpen.

Slypig5000
07-02-2013, 01:05 PM
lots of Japanese knives have holes in the edge in front of the heel, especially ones that are sharpened on a wheel. rarely have i seen one that was caused by what you're describing, though it is, for sure, something i've seen, and it's fairly obvious when it is. 99/100 what is pictured is fixed the first time the knife is sharpened. since every knife i own is going to be thinned repeatedly over its life, and very often immediately, i'm not even sure i'm all that worried about over grinds on the side, unless they are really atrocious.


If I could ask, and this wasn't the issue Dave is talking about, just sharpening regularly would flatten this section of the blade out? I've had a couple of knives that have had this issue and it seems no matter how I try to fix the rise, it persists.

Squilliam
07-02-2013, 01:23 PM
lots of Japanese knives have holes in the edge in front of the heel, especially ones that are sharpened on a wheel. rarely have i seen one that was caused by what you're describing, though it is, for sure, something i've seen, and it's fairly obvious when it is. 99/100 what is pictured is fixed the first time the knife is sharpened. since every knife i own is going to be thinned repeatedly over its life, and very often immediately, i'm not even sure i'm all that worried about over grinds on the side, unless they are really atrocious.

+1

keithsaltydog
07-02-2013, 03:14 PM
what i meant is that for this kind of money, you can definitely get similar knives from Sakai with better fit & finish.

+1

EdipisReks
07-02-2013, 08:57 PM
If I could ask, and this wasn't the issue Dave is talking about, just sharpening regularly would flatten this section of the blade out? I've had a couple of knives that have had this issue and it seems no matter how I try to fix the rise, it persists.


If it's just a case of the heel being under-ground at the edge, then just being careful sharpening will fix it. Sounds like you might have more of an issue than that, though. Try feeling for dips above the hole with your fingers, or use a straight edge to test.

slowtyper
07-03-2013, 12:48 PM
what i meant is that for this kind of money, you can definitely get similar knives from Sakai with better fit & finish.

What would you recommend? TBH I don't read every thread here but this is the first time I've seen so many negative konosuke comments. There was so much kono love a while ago. when did that change?

chinacats
07-03-2013, 01:31 PM
What would you recommend? TBH I don't read every thread here but this is the first time I've seen so many negative konosuke comments. There was so much kono love a while ago. when did that change?

My guess is that the sentiments/expectations tend to follow the pricing structure.

CoqaVin
07-03-2013, 01:34 PM
My guess is that the sentiments/expectations tend to follow the pricing structure.

It is pretty sad if you think about it as soon as someone finds a company they like IE Konosuke the quality goes down? Happened with Moritaka right?

labor of love
07-03-2013, 02:32 PM
i can only comment on the knives that I have used past and present, that being said...of over a dozen different konosukes i have either used or owned, none of them have had as nice fit and finish as the 2 sakai yusukes and 2 gesshin gingas i also used/owned. tilman and suisin inox honyaki seems to be maybe on another level though....

stevenStefano
07-03-2013, 03:22 PM
Double post

stevenStefano
07-03-2013, 03:24 PM
What would you recommend? TBH I don't read every thread here but this is the first time I've seen so many negative konosuke comments. There was so much kono love a while ago. when did that change?

I think their increased popularity has seen a significant drop in their fit and finish and a big rise in price. So I can see their popularity declining because of that. I know I've said it before (a few times) but the 1 Kono I have had the worst F+F I have ever seen in my life and that was before the price hike. I got it lightly used here for a nice price but if I had got it new I'd have sent it back

mhlee
07-03-2013, 03:48 PM
I think their increased popularity has seen a significant drop in their fit and finish and a big rise in price. So I can see their popularity declining because of that. I know I've said it before (a few times) but the 1 Kono I have had the worst F+F I have ever seen in my life and that was before the price hike. I got it lightly used here for a nice price but if I had got it new I'd have sent it back

+1

I was in the market for a laser last year and never considered a Konosuke because of the fit and finish issues I had read about here and heard about from people who either own, owned or regularly sharpen them. In addition, they're no longer inexpensive, and for the price, I would rather purchase a knife that I know for certain has good fit and finish. (I also do not purchase from the site that's the main seller of the knives because of previous customer service and product quality issues.)

I ended up purchasing a Gesshin Ginga White #2 240 wa gyuto that I love. The fit and finish is great. (It was a little more than the Konosuke with saya because of California tax. Assuming Jon does not charge tax for out-of-state purchasers, the Ginga with saya is less than the Konosuke with saya.) I've bought a number of items and knives from Jon and I know that he checks every knife before it goes to a customer.

slowtyper
07-04-2013, 01:56 AM
I feel bad now. I have a kono HD with ebony handle I got a couple years back and its nicest knife I have, or have even used or seen in a work enviro.

labor of love
07-04-2013, 02:13 AM
kono HD with ebony handles are the way to go! i own(ed)2! theyre very nice, i should clarify my earlier statement, the ho wood handle konos are pretty rough for the price, especially nowadays...

keithsaltydog
07-04-2013, 03:59 AM
Konosuki's both HD & carbon are good knives,they just went up in price so much there are other options of some really quality blades at or even below the Kono's. pricewise.

kalaeb
07-04-2013, 04:12 AM
I feel bad now. I have a kono HD with ebony handle I got a couple years back and its nicest knife I have, or have even used or seen in a work enviro.

I had a few of the old Kono's and loved them, great fit and finish. It would appear as if they are slipping a bit in the qc....being popular can have drawbacks if not managed.

Seb
07-07-2013, 09:45 AM
I heard that, as far back as a couple of years ago, you couldn't even buy a Kono HD over the counter from their store in Japan since every single one has already been spoken for by American bulk customers.

schanop
07-07-2013, 10:00 AM
Good to see you back out here, Seb. Another Ozzie member is back aboard.

Seb
07-07-2013, 10:08 AM
Thank you! Been busy at work and fatherhood. Currently on holidays.

tk59
07-07-2013, 02:37 PM
1. I would send it back. There's no reason to tolerate this type of issue on a brand new knife. If you experienced and know what to look for AND are happy to grind off the thinnest, most desirable part of your grind to even out an overgrind, go for it but you are throwing away the best part of the life of your knife (assuming the knife is very nice to begin with). 2. I agree, in general, with the QC issues mentioned. I think it's probably a product of inability to satisfy demand. Either you make less and focus on QC or make more and slip a little. If people still buy them, retailers will demand more and if you don't produce they will go elsewhere and you may or may not be able to replace that income. It's risk vs reward, unfortunately. Few people buying those knives will probably have the skill or knowledge to even notice the problem.