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View Full Version : Muddy polishing stone recommendation.



tripleq
07-07-2013, 08:59 PM
Hi folks. Looking for a muddy polishing stone with single bevel knives in mind. Would love to have your recommendations. Thanks!!!!

greasedbullet
07-07-2013, 09:19 PM
I too am interested in this.

Pensacola Tiger
07-07-2013, 09:42 PM
The Takashima Awasedo from Japanese Knife Imports is one such stone.

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/sharpening-supplies/tennen-toishi-natural-stones/takashima-awasedo-large.html

vinster
07-08-2013, 02:11 AM
Hakka stones are great for this, but they might cost you an arm and a leg.

tk59
07-08-2013, 02:38 AM
The Takashima Awasedo from Japanese Knife Imports is one such stone.

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/sharpening-supplies/tennen-toishi-natural-stones/takashima-awasedo-large.html
This is what I use.

Dusty
07-08-2013, 04:48 AM
Me too. Like it a lot.

schanop
07-08-2013, 04:55 AM
Glad you like it, Dusty :-)

bkdc
07-08-2013, 11:28 AM
I've been interested in this stone for a while. What's the grit estimate on this natural stone?

maxim
07-08-2013, 11:38 AM
It is better to ask Jon about it as every Jnat is different.

And finishing Jnats dont really have grits. You can ask what kind of finish dose it make ? How soft or muddy it is etc.

chinacats
07-08-2013, 11:38 AM
If you read the description on Jon's site it says 8-15k...

JBroida
07-08-2013, 11:41 AM
It is better to ask Jon about it as every Jnat is different.

And finishing Jnats dont really have grits. You can ask what kind of finish dose it make ? How soft or muddy it is etc.

very true... they all have roughly the same size silica in the kyoto region... however the way it sharpens will depend on stone density, other minerals, hardness, etc.

wsfarrell
07-08-2013, 12:08 PM
The King 800 does a great job in this area, and was one of Dave's favorite stones for single bevels. I've been using Maxim's new 800 for a while, and I believe it will become the new standard in synthetics for this application. It's not as muddy as a King, but it provides a very even finish and wears much more slowly. As previous posters have said, there's a whole range of naturals that will follow one of these 800's nicely.

greasedbullet
07-08-2013, 02:24 PM
What about not $200 options? Are there any in the $50-$80 range. I know it is a very limiting budget, but there has to be something out there that will work.

tripleq
07-08-2013, 02:37 PM
What about not $200 options? Are there any in the $50-$80 range. I know it is a very limiting budget, but there has to be something out there that will work.

The King 800 mentioned above can me purchased from several retailers (including Dave) for less than 30$.

Bram
07-08-2013, 02:51 PM
I'm wondering how the Chosera 800 would compare to the above?

greasedbullet
07-08-2013, 02:56 PM
Isn't 800 grit a little low for a finishing stone? Won't that ruin your 5k edge or whatever your highest grit stone is?

Bram
07-08-2013, 02:59 PM
... there's a whole range of naturals that will follow one of these 800's nicely.

Not meant as a 'finisher' I think!

greasedbullet
07-08-2013, 04:43 PM
Not meant as a 'finisher' I think!

Ah, well I guess I was asking about a sub $100 finishing stone for single bevels. Do they exist?

daveb
07-08-2013, 04:49 PM
Maybe polisher means different things to different people. The infamous "Kitayama 8K Green Brick" meets your requirements. It's a polishing or finishing stone, Dave M has them nib for $71. http://www.japaneseknifesharpeningstore.com/Kitayama-sharpening-stone-8000x-p/kita8000.htm (Not sure if he can say that within the "rules" but I can - I think)

People smarter than I am love or hate this stone. For me it produces a mirror finish. I prefer the hazy or mist finish that I get from the Awasedo on SB. Google will provide more info.

PM inbound.

Regards,

Dave

greasedbullet
07-08-2013, 05:01 PM
Thanks, that is closer to what I was interested in.

NO ChoP!
07-08-2013, 09:46 PM
Naniwa superstone 10k best bang for the buck polishing stone.

Dusty
07-08-2013, 09:52 PM
Especially if you it a half thickness one, which will still last for years and years.

tripleq
07-08-2013, 10:05 PM
How would one work the king 800 into getting a nice kasumi finish without messing up the edge? I'm guessing use and then finish up the edge?

pkjames
07-09-2013, 12:17 AM
I think for a single bevel knife, you definitely want something that can bring out the kasumi finish and the contrast between the hagane (hard steel) and jingane (soft iron)

Squilliam
07-09-2013, 02:36 AM
How about the Naniwa 2k Green Brick? Definately a polisher type stone, and quite muddy, it does kasumi finish well for a synthetic. Great last stone to use for a gyuto. I have had a dubious face shave off it, so it leaves a sharper edge than it's grit would indicate.

GConcept999
07-09-2013, 03:06 AM
From what I have read before, Naniwa 8k, Naniwa 10k, Takenoko 6k/8k, Kitayama 8k; for the $50-$100 price range and polishing, builds up some mud and polishes higher than it's grit rating.

Step before, Syn Aoto Blue Brick(more mud), or Green Brick.

I don't know anything about Japanese naturals, but I remember seeing some in Jon Broida's videos and the one with Dave Martell. They use one or a few, might want to look into the videos for specific brands, and look up their reviews.

tripleq
07-10-2013, 07:49 PM
Naniwa superstone 10k best bang for the buck polishing stone.

I have one of these stones on hand but never gave it a try. Pulled it out today. I found it polishes flat surfaces nicely but it didn't really produce much mud for me.

greasedbullet
07-10-2013, 11:37 PM
I have one of these stones on hand but never gave it a try. Pulled it out today. I found it polishes flat surfaces nicely but it didn't really produce much mud for me.

Sometimes I need to use a flattening stone or something to that effect to get a little mud going on harder or higher grit stones before I start using them. But that may just be me.

tk59
07-10-2013, 11:56 PM
8k superstone is plenty good, IMO. Have you tried the 5k Rika? Do you really want a super fine edge?

tripleq
07-11-2013, 12:28 AM
8k superstone is plenty good, IMO. Have you tried the 5k Rika? Do you really want a super fine edge?

Haven't tried it. I'm not really concerned about the fineness of the finish. I'm just looking for a muddy stone so I can have an even looking finish on single bevel knifes that aren't perfectly flat. So as long as I can mud it up and a complish that I'll be happy. I'm planning to get my hands on the king 800 ASAP And give that a shot.

tk59
07-11-2013, 12:53 AM
I might try the Rika. I think Jon had a 2k IIRC that worked amazingly well. That might be another option.

JBroida
07-11-2013, 03:58 AM
after reading this thread over, i saw that recommendations varied from stones that would leave a bright mirror to stones that were only about the look, but would leave deep scratches. I think it would be really helpful if we had a better idea of exactly the kind of look, edge, finish, and edge feeling the OP was looking for. Otherwise, the recommendations are all over the place.

*i see this is partly answered, but it still depends on what kind of look one wants, and what kind of edge they are looking for at the end of the day. You can have soft and muddy that leaves a nice even mirror, or soft and muddy that leaves a nice kasumi finish. You can even find stones that leave an entirely matted finish.

mainaman
07-11-2013, 07:53 AM
I have one of these stones on hand but never gave it a try. Pulled it out today. I found it polishes flat surfaces nicely but it didn't really produce much mud for me.
It is a 10k Synthetic stone it is not supposed to make a lot of mud, if any at all.
You can make the slurry with a diamond plate for example.

tripleq
07-11-2013, 01:57 PM
after reading this thread over, i saw that recommendations varied from stones that would leave a bright mirror to stones that were only about the look, but would leave deep scratches. I think it would be really helpful if we had a better idea of exactly the kind of look, edge, finish, and edge feeling the OP was looking for. Otherwise, the recommendations are all over the place.

*i see this is partly answered, but it still depends on what kind of look one wants, and what kind of edge they are looking for at the end of the day. You can have soft and muddy that leaves a nice even mirror, or soft and muddy that leaves a nice kasumi finish. You can even find stones that leave an entirely matted finish.

Jon - Thanks for taking the time to chime in, especially while away in Japan. I'll be making a second trip there this year BTW. I plan to take in the hamono festival in Kochi if I can get the timing right.

For my original question here is the situation. I have had the same stones and pretty much the same knives for more years than I care to admit. My approach to sharpening single bevel knives is pretty much the same across the board; lowest to highest grit, making a final polish at around 6k. I took care of the unevenly ground sections on my old knives over a good amount of time and many sharpening sessions. I recently picked up a bunch of new knives and I had forgotten how unsightly those rough spots can look in contrast to a nicely polished surface. I know it isn't just me because apparently all knife enthisiasts are naturally immune to OCD. Anyway, my goal is to get a homogenous looking surface. I don't really care what the final finish looks like but I would like to preserve my 6k edge as it works well for me. I've never considered putting a finish on the overall bevel that is of a signifigantly lower grit than my cutting edge while respecting the basic principles of single bevel sharpening. Right now I'm thinking performing normal sharpening shinogi/hagane 1k&2k then using the king 800 for the 'finish' before going back at the edge with finer grit stones up to my 6k. I'll likely end up getting a higher grit muddy stone anyway but I'm curious enough about the king 800 to give it a try. I'd be interested in your thoughts.

ChiliPepper
07-12-2013, 06:20 AM
Gosh, and I thought I had grabbed at least the basics of sharpening and stone progressions... how one can go 1k, 2k and refine with a 800?? :beatinghead:

JBroida
07-12-2013, 06:28 AM
the 800 wont refine... it just happens to use abrasives that leave a deeper color on soft steel (SIC). You will still see scratches though. Thats one of the main differences between doing it that way and using higher grit stones.

ChiliPepper
07-12-2013, 08:11 AM
So you use the 800 to give a somewhat "darker" appearance on the soft metal, ok. But surely that can't be called a kasumi finish, right? As Jon mentioned you'll end up with too many vsible scratches to be of aesthetic value, you'd think.

JBroida
07-12-2013, 08:33 AM
you can clean up the scratches later on with other stones... thats what most people with this stone do. As long as you dont overdo the other stones, the color will mostly remain from the 800.