PDA

View Full Version : jck fu rin ka zan and fujiwara nashiji line, same basic knife?



labor of love
07-11-2013, 03:19 AM
is there any difference between these 2 lines of knives besides the handles? and the price tag?
http://japanesechefsknife.com/FurinkazanW1Series.html#FuRinKaZanWhiteSteel#1Seri es
http://www.teruyasu.jp/en/products/gyuto.html

Timthebeaver
07-11-2013, 04:26 AM
I believe they are the same.

CoqaVin
07-11-2013, 09:46 AM
is there any difference between these 2 lines of knives besides the handles? and the price tag?
http://japanesechefsknife.com/FurinkazanW1Series.html#FuRinKaZanWhiteSteel#1Seri es
http://www.teruyasu.jp/en/products/gyuto.html

With the Fujiwara what is the difference between the 3 types of gyutos? Maboroshi, Nashiji, and Denka?

Timthebeaver
07-11-2013, 10:05 AM
With the Fujiwara what is the difference between the 3 types of gyutos? Maboroshi, Nashiji, and Denka?

All are san-mai construction, stainless clad carbon. Nashiji and Maboroshi are both Shirogami #1, with different finishes. Denka is Aogami #1 with a different finish. There may be other more subtle differences too, but I suspect very few people would be privy to them.

bkdc
07-11-2013, 01:05 PM
If you are willing to go with a 210 gyuto, I highly recommend buying the Maboroshi over the Nashiji. There is a big price leap from 210 to 240. Very weird pricing structure.

I own the Maboroshi 210, Nashiji 240, and a Denka no Hoto Nakiri. The steel on the Maboroshi and Nashiji behave the same. But the geometry favors the Maboroshi. On my specimen, it's as if I'm cutting with a single-bevel gyuto. There is a highly asymmetric grind, and food falls off. This recommendation applies only if you're a rightie.

bkdc
07-11-2013, 01:41 PM
I would like to know whether other people with a Denka or Maboroshi have the same asymmetric grind on their knives. I will post a photo later when I get home.

mkriggen
07-11-2013, 02:16 PM
May be a differance in the heat treat. Knifewear lists the Fujiwara Nashiji as 64:65HRC, JCK lists the Fu Rin Ka Zan as 63HRC. Numbers are pretty close though, so it could just be differance between different test samples or different interpretations of the same data. Either way, the JCK sure looks interesting. Might just have to pick one up to see how it compares to my Masakage Yuki's.:scratchhead:

Timthebeaver
07-11-2013, 03:19 PM
May be a differance in the heat treat. Knifewear lists the Fujiwara Nashiji as 64:65HRC, JCK lists the Fu Rin Ka Zan as 63HRC. Numbers are pretty close though, so it could just be differance between different test samples or different interpretations of the same data. Either way, the JCK sure looks interesting. Might just have to pick one up to see how it compares to my Masakage Yuki's.:scratchhead:

I doubt it. White #1 is white #1, he would surely use his best/the same parameters, or he's deliberately compromising one line.

Knifewear HRC numbers are high in any case, Takeda AS is listed as 63-65, everywhere else 61-63.

Jon Broida says that Fujiwara "shoots for 64 HRC" in one of his blog posts.

keithsaltydog
07-11-2013, 05:14 PM
is there any difference between these 2 lines of knives besides the handles? and the price tag?
http://japanesechefsknife.com/FurinkazanW1Series.html#FuRinKaZanWhiteSteel#1Seri es
http://www.teruyasu.jp/en/products/gyuto.html

You have not bought one of those Fuji's yet? Last time you posted that knife liked it alot. mkriggen go for it then I can check out yours:running:

labor of love
07-11-2013, 05:55 PM
I've been putting off pulling the trigger on the JCK for like a year and a half, while I wait on some customs I have on order, I may pick up either the JCK or ginsanko tanaka gyuto.

panda
07-11-2013, 07:12 PM
Wish he would make nashiji in aogami

bkdc
07-11-2013, 10:14 PM
16956

The Maboroshi asymmetric grind on my particular specimen. I don't know if this was intentional or some product variation, but I like the functional result.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n52/jpl73/maboro_zps45aac61d.jpg (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/jpl73/media/maboro_zps45aac61d.jpg.html)

labor of love
07-11-2013, 11:23 PM
Wish he would make nashiji in aogami

+1.
I'm on that nashiji pass around, I'll let you know how the retention is....

Timthebeaver
07-19-2013, 06:07 AM
The Fu Rin Ka Zan is being discontinued, once the current inventory is gone, that's it.

labor of love
07-19-2013, 02:12 PM
Not too popular I'm guessing

mkriggen
07-19-2013, 02:33 PM
Anybody know if the F&F of the JCK branded knife is any better then the fujiwara branded ones?

Timthebeaver
07-19-2013, 03:06 PM
Not too popular I'm guessing

Fujiwara Teruyasu isn't willing to make any more. The JCK knives were good value, particularly looking at the prices of the Nashiji line elsewhere.

bkdc
07-19-2013, 03:51 PM
The major issue with F&F is with the yo-handled Fujiwara Teruyasu knives. The JCK knife has a rustic looking blade with a wa-handle so you won't experience the horrible handle issues. However, the machi is NOT squared evenly on my JCK. The blade was ground with a grinding wheel and there are subtle variations in depth, but there are no obvious overgrinds that would lead to a big divot on the edge with sharpening. Edge retention is much better than expected for a white #1.

I was actually thinking about making this an 'experiment' knife and thinning out the ENTIRE knife including the nashiji finish to create my own grind. A risky thought, but I think it would be a fun elbow-grease project.

labor of love
07-19-2013, 05:00 PM
i would like to try before i buy....ive been scorned too many times by white steel

eaglerock
07-19-2013, 05:03 PM
I had the jck white#1 gyuto.
That knife can get scary sharp, cuts very well. but the F&F was not the best, very rough finish, edges are sharp, some small overgrind and food sticking was a problem.
The much cheaper tanaka blue is very similar and in my opinion a better knife.

labor of love
07-19-2013, 05:49 PM
But if you thin it I bet it could be much improved

bkdc
07-19-2013, 07:12 PM
I'm gonna take close measurements of my Carter and see if I can try to mimic the grind. Fat chance, but hey.. all I can lose is a decent knife. :)

Timthebeaver
07-19-2013, 07:14 PM
Mine cuts great. Maybe you got a fatty?

bkdc
07-19-2013, 07:26 PM
Mine cuts great too. I asked Koki to send me his thinnest. But it still wedges on hard veggies. There's nothing you can do about that unless you turn it into a laser. The limits of geometry.

Hbeernink
07-19-2013, 11:38 PM
I've had the fujiwara nishiji santoku for many years- great edge, but F&F is really bad. choil isn't square and is unpolished to the point of being sharp, the spine has uneven layer on the laminate (core steel vs. cladding), etc. perhaps the JCK version is better. I've taken to using the fuji as an experiment to work on different edge angles and bevels to see what I like best. I'll eventually do some handwork and have already mirror polished and etched below the shinogi line (looks great BTW). once polished up with a nice finish it's going to be a fantastic performer - I've never had a problem with the sharpness or the edge retention, so it's good steel overall.

my feeling is that the nishiji is the reject/ less finished version of the maboroshi.

JBroida
07-19-2013, 11:56 PM
I've had the fujiwara nishiji santoku for many years- great edge, but F&F is really bad. choil isn't square and is unpolished to the point of being sharp, the spine has uneven layer on the laminate (core steel vs. cladding), etc. perhaps the JCK version is better. I've taken to using the fuji as an experiment to work on different edge angles and bevels to see what I like best. I'll eventually do some handwork and have already mirror polished and etched below the shinogi line (looks great BTW). once polished up with a nice finish it's going to be a fantastic performer - I've never had a problem with the sharpness or the edge retention, so it's good steel overall.

my feeling is that the nishiji is the reject/ less finished version of the maboroshi.

With regard to the last part, that is truly not the case at all. They are made entirely as different lines.

Hbeernink
07-20-2013, 12:58 PM
ah good to know - thanks