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View Full Version : Pressure Cooker, Chamber Vac, Sous Vide Unit....



Zwiefel
07-11-2013, 11:33 PM
Gentlepersons,

Since MuchoBocho has given me the bug, I've been eyeing these pieces of equipment...wanted to see what you all think of them functionally, price-wise, etc. for a home user.

http://www.amazon.com/Instant-Pot-IP-LUX60-Programmable-6-33-Quart/dp/B0073GIN08/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1373598077&sr=8-2&keywords=pressure+cooker

http://www.amazon.com/VacMaster-Portable-Chamber-Vacuum-Sealer/dp/B003YE8FG0/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1373598344&sr=8-5&keywords=vacuum+chamber

http://www.amazon.com/PolyScience-Professional-CREATIVE-Immersion-Circulator/dp/B00CC2OLHC/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1373599914&sr=8-8&keywords=sous+vide

with the possible exception of the pressure cooker, these would be "later in the year" items...

Also, wanted to see what you all think of the "Modernist Cuisine At Home" vs "Modernist Cuisine." I'm guessing the science is explained in much greater detail in the full set....?

Justin0505
07-12-2013, 01:12 AM
Call me old fashioned, but I don't like electric pressure cookers... seem gimicky. You can do everything and more with a good burner top model. I don't know if you can do the rapid release method with the electric ones.

Everyone I talked to / read about said that, if you can afford it go as large as you think you could possibly want b/c you will wish you had if you start off too small.

I have this:
http://www.amazon.com/Kuhn-Rikon-Duromatic-2-Quart-Stockpot/dp/B00009A9XU/ref=pd_sim_sbs_k_6
and love it.

JCHine
07-12-2013, 02:57 AM
I'd second a larger Kuhn Rikon over an electric version, love mine Most don't get up to the 15.5 psi that is critical to good pressure cooking. If you you want a bit more control over normal stove top consider a separate induction hotplate that has better stability/reactivity.

I've only skimmed modernist @ home but do have the full version and it really comes down to complexity, tools + if you have a cooking brigade/highly committed (read insane) home cook. That being said it is a thing of beauty and pretty useful even to an amateur. In the full version there are recipes that require rotary stator homogenisers, autoclaves, rotovaps and centrifuges. The home version you need a pressure cooker +sous vide rig.

Starting out with Sous Vide I'd suggest the Pro model which is a real workhorse (make sure you get a surge protector) rather than the creative series and make do with zip bags for a few months while saving/hunting down a large reconditioned vac unit. It will teach you a lot about the method with a 2 variables; time and temperature. There are other issues with chamber sealers (vac burn, adverse compression effects) that can really complicate things for an new user - seen a lot of pro kitchens have problems when starting out.

77kath
07-12-2013, 06:57 AM
I have a Fagor, purchased as a compromise. Not a good one. Get the Kuhn Rikon. The electrics are said to be unreliable, though I have no personal experience. I do have Modernist Cuisine at Home, which is whelming enough, but if you are a real convert you may eventually find it lacking. A good start, though, and much cheaper than Modernist Cuisine.

Mucho Bocho
07-12-2013, 09:14 AM
Danny, Glad to hear you're going to start messing with some Modern cooking techniques.

I agree with everybody's advise that the Kuhn Rikon is the way to go. As you know, I have the 5QT hotel style braiser but you can't go wrong with the 8 QT either. Justinís bang on about an electric PC. A impractically cumbered designed by somebody with good intentions Iím sure. cough cough

I know you're gung ho to get cracking with Sous Vide, just remember that in everyday cooking, most of your VS cooking with be with proteins. Other than fish, meat-proteins need hours not minutes to cook, thus you don't need a fast or ultra-tenth-of-a-degree accurate SV cooker. I have both a PID controlled crock pot and the Poly Pro. Unquestionably the Poly has advantages, but for $700--$800, when Iím cooking pork, chicken, beef, lamb, duck, goat, jowls, bellyís.... I use the crock pot ($99 PID, $20 Crock). The Crock is quiet, well insulated, efficient and for long cooking times (>12hrs ), performs indistinguishably from the Poly.

http://www.amazon.com/DorkFood-DSV-Temperature-Controller-Sous-vide/dp/B0088OTON4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373634635&sr=8-1&keywords=sous+vide

IMHO, your first purchase should be Chamber Vac. Remember, one of the best ways to cook vegetables is to put them in a vac bag with aromatics, salt and butter and then 3 min or so in the microwave-- perfect every time. Sure you could float them in a super hot water bath for 10 min. too, but why waste all that time and energy? You could get a clamp style, but then you won't be able to seal liquids... Youíll regret not getting the Chamber.

Other than cooking, you'll use the Chamber for packaging cooked and uncooked foods. In some cases cooked foods can go back into the SV to re thermolize. You can make infusions with fruit. Wait till you try watermelon compressions with dark coconut rum--very dramatic results. More so than the Rosemary infused vodka we did. Make Pickles in 60 sec. Remember oxygen is the enemy and you just can't evacuate a bag using Archimedes principle and a zip lock. Aging meat. Sealing mason jars, creating marinades under pressure. Sealing water, then freezing for customized ice packs. Packaging stocks, soups and graves for freezer storage. Making meat moulds, professionally packaging sausages, fish... Facilitate marinading of chicken and pork.

When I think of some others Iíll chime back in. ;-)

http://www.qualitymatters.com/VacMaster-Stainless-Steel-CountertopChamber-Sealer-p/qmar-vp112.htm

DSChief
07-12-2013, 11:18 AM
For home use, the "ALL AMERICAN" preassure canner/cooker is a good choice. I have the model 921

http://www.pressurecooker-outlet.com/pics/921.jpg
It's pretty heavy, but good construction

Zwiefel
07-13-2013, 12:03 AM
Call me old fashioned, but I don't like electric pressure cookers... seem gimicky. You can do everything and more with a good burner top model. I don't know if you can do the rapid release method with the electric ones.

Everyone I talked to / read about said that, if you can afford it go as large as you think you could possibly want b/c you will wish you had if you start off too small.

I have this:
http://www.amazon.com/Kuhn-Rikon-Duromatic-2-Quart-Stockpot/dp/B00009A9XU/ref=pd_sim_sbs_k_6
and love it.

Well, I was thinking mainly about how nice it would be to use electric for this purpose, esp considering the RV. but throwing in an induction burner would address that in several ways. this looks like a keeper.


I have a Fagor, purchased as a compromise. Not a good one. Get the Kuhn Rikon. The electrics are said to be unreliable, though I have no personal experience. I do have Modernist Cuisine at Home, which is whelming enough, but if you are a real convert you may eventually find it lacking. A good start, though, and much cheaper than Modernist Cuisine.

Good to know....thanks for letting me learn from your pain :)


Danny, Glad to hear you're going to start messing with some Modern cooking techniques.

I agree with everybody's advise that the Kuhn Rikon is the way to go. As you know, I have the 5QT hotel style braiser but you can't go wrong with the 8 QT either. Justinís bang on about an electric PC. A impractically cumbered designed by somebody with good intentions Iím sure. cough cough

I know you're gung ho to get cracking with Sous Vide, just remember that in everyday cooking, most of your VS cooking with be with proteins. Other than fish, meat-proteins need hours not minutes to cook, thus you don't need a fast or ultra-tenth-of-a-degree accurate SV cooker. I have both a PID controlled crock pot and the Poly Pro. Unquestionably the Poly has advantages, but for $700--$800, when Iím cooking pork, chicken, beef, lamb, duck, goat, jowls, bellyís.... I use the crock pot ($99 PID, $20 Crock). The Crock is quiet, well insulated, efficient and for long cooking times (>12hrs ), performs indistinguishably from the Poly.

http://www.amazon.com/DorkFood-DSV-Temperature-Controller-Sous-vide/dp/B0088OTON4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373634635&sr=8-1&keywords=sous+vide

IMHO, your first purchase should be Chamber Vac. Remember, one of the best ways to cook vegetables is to put them in a vac bag with aromatics, salt and butter and then 3 min or so in the microwave-- perfect every time. Sure you could float them in a super hot water bath for 10 min. too, but why waste all that time and energy? You could get a clamp style, but then you won't be able to seal liquids... Youíll regret not getting the Chamber.

Other than cooking, you'll use the Chamber for packaging cooked and uncooked foods. In some cases cooked foods can go back into the SV to re thermolize. You can make infusions with fruit. Wait till you try watermelon compressions with dark coconut rum--very dramatic results. More so than the Rosemary infused vodka we did. Make Pickles in 60 sec. Remember oxygen is the enemy and you just can't evacuate a bag using Archimedes principle and a zip lock. Aging meat. Sealing mason jars, creating marinades under pressure. Sealing water, then freezing for customized ice packs. Packaging stocks, soups and graves for freezer storage. Making meat moulds, professionally packaging sausages, fish... Facilitate marinading of chicken and pork.

When I think of some others Iíll chime back in. ;-)

http://www.qualitymatters.com/VacMaster-Stainless-Steel-CountertopChamber-Sealer-p/qmar-vp112.htm

I'm liking that DorkFood gizmo...and already have a crock pot. and zip-lock bags....that might get me by long enough to get my ends together....

I found the vp-112 for 550...I'll have to wait a bit on that...just got a single-bevel a couple of weeks ago :)

Can you substitute a vac chamber for some parts of canning? The Mrs. has recently expressed an interest in canning...this might lubricate the wallet....


For home use, the "ALL AMERICAN" preassure canner/cooker is a good choice. I have the model 921

http://www.pressurecooker-outlet.com/pics/921.jpg
It's pretty heavy, but good construction

Is the Kuhn-Rikon above not suitable for canning? Why would you consider this better than the KR?

Thanks to everyone for the responses...exactly the kind of content I was looking for.

Mucho Bocho
07-13-2013, 09:14 AM
Danny, Yes you can use the Vac 112 for canning. Its not the same as room temperature preservation canning. But why would you want to do that to your food anyway. I use mine to seal jars up all the time. Ball wide mouth canning jars

DSChief
07-13-2013, 10:01 AM
"Is the Kuhn-Rikon above not suitable for canning? Why would you consider this better than the KR?"

I said " a good choice" not better. Have no first hand experience W/ the KR.
that being said, The 921 is, cheaper, higher capacity,heavier construction ie; thicker walls

Zwiefel
07-13-2013, 05:30 PM
"Is the Kuhn-Rikon above not suitable for canning? Why would you consider this better than the KR?"

I said " a good choice" not better. Have no first hand experience W/ the KR.
that being said, The 921 is, cheaper, higher capacity,heavier construction ie; thicker walls

That's what I was looking for, thanks!

Justin0505
07-13-2013, 06:01 PM
That's what I was looking for, thanks!

I have heard of people using the KR for canning, although I don't think that it will go to quite as high a pressure as a dedicated canner like the AM 921. However, the KR is VERY thick (esp at base) stainless where the 921 is cast aluminum. It' wouldn't be an issue for canning, but I don't cooking on raw aluminum. -Aluminum oxide kinda nasty stuff... if it irritates my skin in anti-perspirant, I sure don't want to eat it.
The KR works very well for browning prior to pressure cooking and also as a huge stock pot. I like making concentrated stock by first browning the meat / caramelizing the onions / veg with the top off no water (just a little fat), then add h20 and pressure cooking to rapidly release the contents of bones / veg, then remove the solids and reduce with the top off.

IMO KR W/ induction burner would be the ultimate setup. With this and a good skillet or saute pan you could cover 99.99% of your stove-top needs.

Zwiefel
07-13-2013, 06:32 PM
I have heard of people using the KR for canning, although I don't think that it will go to quite as high a pressure as a dedicated canner like the AM 921. However, the KR is VERY thick (esp at base) stainless where the 921 is cast aluminum. It' wouldn't be an issue for canning, but I don't cooking on raw aluminum. -Aluminum oxide kinda nasty stuff... if it irritates my skin in anti-perspirant, I sure don't want to eat it.
The KR works very well for browning prior to pressure cooking and also as a huge stock pot. I like making concentrated stock by first browning the meat / caramelizing the onions / veg with the top off no water (just a little fat), then add h20 and pressure cooking to rapidly release the contents of bones / veg, then remove the solids and reduce with the top off.

IMO KR W/ induction burner would be the ultimate setup. With this and a good skillet or saute pan you could cover 99.99% of your stove-top needs.

I was wondering about the cooking aspect since I know most canners aren't made with food prep in mind.

What the thoughts on size for the PC? Seems like a large one would discourage nightly use...but a small one wouldn't cover all needs.

5q?
8q?
bigger?

apicius9
07-13-2013, 06:44 PM
I have a 10qt Fagor but don't nearly use it as much as I thought because it's just too big for one person to cook everyday meals. If I had to do it again, I would get a combo with 2 pots, one large and one small, and one pressure and one regular lid.

Stefan

bieniek
07-13-2013, 06:55 PM
Gentlepersons,

Since MuchoBocho has given me the bug, I've been eyeing these pieces of equipment...wanted to see what you all think of them functionally, price-wise, etc. for a home user.

http://www.amazon.com/Instant-Pot-IP-LUX60-Programmable-6-33-Quart/dp/B0073GIN08/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1373598077&sr=8-2&keywords=pressure+cooker

http://www.amazon.com/VacMaster-Portable-Chamber-Vacuum-Sealer/dp/B003YE8FG0/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1373598344&sr=8-5&keywords=vacuum+chamber

http://www.amazon.com/PolyScience-Professional-CREATIVE-Immersion-Circulator/dp/B00CC2OLHC/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1373599914&sr=8-8&keywords=sous+vide

with the possible exception of the pressure cooker, these would be "later in the year" items...

Also, wanted to see what you all think of the "Modernist Cuisine At Home" vs "Modernist Cuisine." I'm guessing the science is explained in much greater detail in the full set....?

Start with a - one great question: Wat you want to do?? I did not read other answers cause it would not change my opinion anyway. Simple as it is. You want to feel better about yourself? Buy all the stuff plus modernist cuisine. At the end of the day, so much money must mean good cooking, isnt it?

or

If you really want to get into cooking, get yourself cheapest sous vide magic set, maybe with rice cooker, find good german pressure cooker [there is one german company, which I can promise you - makes amazing durable pressure pots, find it yourself, very well known] and do the cooking.

Two main advantages over polyscience? 1st power 3000W in sous vide magic which makes 80 C in no time, against polyscienses 400 years and 2nd the noise.

cooking cooking cooking. You will never get chicken that succulent as with regular very cheap,barbarian oven anyway. But good lock tyrying ;)

Zwiefel
07-13-2013, 07:59 PM
Start with a - one great question: Wat you want to do?? I did not read other answers cause it would not change my opinion anyway. Simple as it is. You want to feel better about yourself? Buy all the stuff plus modernist cuisine. At the end of the day, so much money must mean good cooking, isnt it?

or

If you really want to get into cooking, get yourself cheapest sous vide magic set, maybe with rice cooker, find good german pressure cooker [there is one german company, which I can promise you - makes amazing durable pressure pots, find it yourself, very well known] and do the cooking.

Two main advantages over polyscience? 1st power 3000W in sous vide magic which makes 80 C in no time, against polyscienses 400 years and 2nd the noise.

cooking cooking cooking. You will never get chicken that succulent as with regular very cheap,barbarian oven anyway. But good lock tyrying ;)


I hear your message...I think I've earned my chops. I spent 10 years with no gadgets at all...only a chef's knife and a parer...no food processor, no grater, no blender, etc. I know what it means to cook (at home). There is no substitute for that....but I'm also ready to try something new.

JCHine
07-14-2013, 02:44 AM
Before making the decision on which sous vide machine to purchase do some investigation about the advantages of stirred versus unstirred baths. For me the stirred bath with variable capacity, portability (great for holiday rentals) and the ability to cook from frozen is a big advantage that offsets the noise.

KR for canning - they get to approximately 121C at 2 bars (maximum) which should in theory kill botulism/Staphylococcus aureus spores. But they are pretty small so yields are low.

Justin0505
07-14-2013, 03:52 AM
I was wondering about the cooking aspect since I know most canners aren't made with food prep in mind.

What the thoughts on size for the PC? Seems like a large one would discourage nightly use...but a small one wouldn't cover all needs.

5q?
8q?
bigger?

I think my first link was incorrect, I think that one that I have is the 8q:
http://www.amazon.com/Kuhn-Rikon-Duromatic-Pressure-Cooker/dp/B003R2QYIA/ref=pd_sbs_k_10

I think that the 7.4 is the most popular, but looked at them side by side and like the 8q more for a few reasons:
-more compact handle actually made it better space-wise for storage
-big enough to fit a few cans in
-I didn't have a good quality, big stock pot, and now I don't need to buy one
-easily accommodates a large chicken, rack+ of ribs, etc...
-theres a method of cooking rice where you put the rice in a bowl with water, then put a small amount of water in the PC then put the bowl in the PC. The 8q accommodates my large pyrex bowl (that makes plenty of rice for 1-4 people) well.
-I'm a bit of a safety nut when it comes to things that can explode and shoot super-heated plasma and metal all over, and while the KR does have the best valve / safety design, you still need to make sure that the contents never touch the lid / valves. There's a max fill line, but you also have to think about cooking certain things (like beans) that can bubble / foam up, so the extra margin in size is also a margin in peace of mind for me.


the next size up (10 I believe) is really huge.

bieniek
07-14-2013, 04:46 AM
I hear your message...I think I've earned my chops. I spent 10 years with no gadgets at all...only a chef's knife and a parer...no food processor, no grater, no blender, etc. I know what it means to cook (at home). There is no substitute for that....but I'm also ready to try something new.

My message was something little else.
I meant, the priciest eq does not mean best or most useful.
Water is an amazing substance it never is unstirred.

mikemac
07-14-2013, 10:49 AM
If you haven't made a commitment yet....a few years back I did the same search for PC's...the Magefesa and Kuhn-Rikon were essentially 'ranked' as equals, with a big two thumbs up for the documentation that came with the KR vs. a big two thumbs up for the $$ value in the Magefesa. I have the Magefesa Supercooker which is a pressure cooker & pressure fryer (most PC's are NOT), and I've had no problems or complaints.

rahimlee54
07-14-2013, 12:52 PM
If you have the cash the KR is great, it not the fagor is nice as well. I purchased the 8 qt, it works great for 2 people. I narrowed it down between the fagor and KR and went with the KR because I liked the release valve and fagor had quiet a number of quality complaints online. If I could have found it locally I would have gotten it, and had access to easy returns if there were any problems. I looked at the american canning pots, which look great, but storage was an issue.

Expensive equipment is not a necessity but it does usually make your life easier.

Botulism and Staph die around 72 C any boiling water bath will kill them and pressure cookers will for sure.

JCHine
07-15-2013, 08:58 AM
For shelf temperature safe you need to kill the spores as well as the pathogen which requires a higher temp...might be a bit paranoid :scared4: but then again, never made myself sick.

Lukas
07-15-2013, 09:34 AM
I have the WMF which I love, my mom's lasted 20 years, the main advantage is that with the same lid you can use pots with different sizes. http://www.amazon.com/WMF-Perfect-Stainless-Steel-Pressure-Interchangeable/dp/B0042ESDK4/ref=sr_1_1?s=kitchen&srs=2603820011&ie=UTF8&qid=1373895323&sr=1-1&keywords=wmf+pressure+cooker

Zwiefel
07-15-2013, 09:51 PM
Before making the decision on which sous vide machine to purchase do some investigation about the advantages of stirred versus unstirred baths. For me the stirred bath with variable capacity, portability (great for holiday rentals) and the ability to cook from frozen is a big advantage that offsets the noise.

KR for canning - they get to approximately 121C at 2 bars (maximum) which should in theory kill botulism/Staphylococcus aureus spores. But they are pretty small so yields are low.

I'm thinking I'll get the dork food unit to test the waters--so to speak--before I drop $$ on the polyscience....which will also buy me time to save up. That will also allow me to have 2 choices in the future or to loan the dork food unit to people I think i can convert ;)


I think my first link was incorrect, I think that one that I have is the 8q:
http://www.amazon.com/Kuhn-Rikon-Duromatic-Pressure-Cooker/dp/B003R2QYIA/ref=pd_sbs_k_10

I think that the 7.4 is the most popular, but looked at them side by side and like the 8q more for a few reasons:
-more compact handle actually made it better space-wise for storage
-big enough to fit a few cans in
-I didn't have a good quality, big stock pot, and now I don't need to buy one
-easily accommodates a large chicken, rack+ of ribs, etc...
-theres a method of cooking rice where you put the rice in a bowl with water, then put a small amount of water in the PC then put the bowl in the PC. The 8q accommodates my large pyrex bowl (that makes plenty of rice for 1-4 people) well.
-I'm a bit of a safety nut when it comes to things that can explode and shoot super-heated plasma and metal all over, and while the KR does have the best valve / safety design, you still need to make sure that the contents never touch the lid / valves. There's a max fill line, but you also have to think about cooking certain things (like beans) that can bubble / foam up, so the extra margin in size is also a margin in peace of mind for me.


the next size up (10 I believe) is really huge.

So you think the .6Q makes a significant functional difference? wouldnt the lack of a handle on the 8Q make it more difficult to use for skillet type cooking before turning on the pressure?


My message was something little else.
I meant, the priciest eq does not mean best or most useful.
Water is an amazing substance it never is unstirred.

I see...definitely agree with you there. money is not a substitute for sweat eh? I earn a decent living and have learned the hard way that buying the best equipment (not the most expensive) is usually cheaper in the long run. That's what I was seeking here. Or at least a stepping stone to "best."


If you haven't made a commitment yet....a few years back I did the same search for PC's...the Magefesa and Kuhn-Rikon were essentially 'ranked' as equals, with a big two thumbs up for the documentation that came with the KR vs. a big two thumbs up for the $$ value in the Magefesa. I have the Magefesa Supercooker which is a pressure cooker & pressure fryer (most PC's are NOT), and I've had no problems or complaints.

hmmm..."pressure fryer?" Isn't that how KFC started out? what makes something a pressure fryer? Why couldn't you do that with any PC?

I'm itching to hit the "purchase" button....I think the Dork food is a given....open question is the PC....the vac chamber will have to wait for the next bonus....or longer.

The Magefesa prices seem to vary a lot on Amazon...some of them were very close to the KR prices....other seem steeply discounted...why the huge difference?

Zwiefel
07-15-2013, 10:13 PM
Looking at the KR units...prices also seem to vary widely:

http://www.amazon.com/Kuhn-Rikon-Duromatic-Pressure-Stockpot/dp/B001A08VPK/ref=sr_1_8?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1373940812&sr=1-8&keywords=kuhn+rikon+pressure+cooker

versus

http://www.amazon.com/Kuhn-Rikon-Duromatic-2-Quart-Stockpot/dp/B00009A9XU/ref=sr_1_4?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1373940812&sr=1-4&keywords=kuhn+rikon+pressure+cooker

Also, any recommendations on an induction plate?

Dardeau
07-15-2013, 10:28 PM
The Vollrath induction burners I've used make a really horrible, high pitched noise that actually made me physically nauseous once. A really tough inexpensive induction burner is the one that Update makes. You won't really be able to sear with it, but the temp control is good enough to make cheese. I've found them useful for consommť, or anything else you set and, mostly, forget.

bieniek
07-16-2013, 01:20 AM
http://www.kochwerkstatt.de/epages/61940815.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61940815/Products/8209590411

22cm wide. you would be surprised how little food can be prepped in such a size

or

http://www.kochwerkstatt.de/epages/61940815.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61940815/Products/1007/SubProducts/0007174814

Plus pressure can reach 1 bar above atmospheric. And that gives 121 celsius.

Honestly Z, Im not here to preach, my first post was after o.7 L vodka, so take it with a grain of salt, but in all honesty, I had the new small polyscience "portable" in side by side comparison and it took like 30 minutes to heat 15L of water to 85 degrees.
Yeah, its portable, but try to heat 30-40 litres and it would prolly crap itself, plus it makes noise and plus it takes space on the side of the pot [ which is a bit if you think 18L pot] Plus it costs more than double to SVM.

It looks ugly but makes no noise and boy its fast.

Would reccomend you buying thermometer too. Very usefull tool.

I have the cheapest available vacuum machine but am using the chamber vac at work most often - which is most convenient.

mikemac
07-16-2013, 10:34 AM
Not just prices!
Since both are "sold & shipped by Amazon" I'd give credence to the different shipping weights (13 lbs vs 9 lbs.) and product dimensions
My guess is these are two different lines, with the less expensive one being more of a 'home version'...looking at the KR website, both are listed with separate item numbers, and the heavier and more expensive one is listed as the 'family style'. It specs out as wider, and more squat. My guess would be the extra weight and $$'s can be attributed to the tri-ply base.

Looking at the KR units...prices also seem to vary widely:

http://www.amazon.com/Kuhn-Rikon-Duromatic-Pressure-Stockpot/dp/B001A08VPK/ref=sr_1_8?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1373940812&sr=1-8&keywords=kuhn+rikon+pressure+cooker

versus

http://www.amazon.com/Kuhn-Rikon-Duromatic-2-Quart-Stockpot/dp/B00009A9XU/ref=sr_1_4?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1373940812&sr=1-4&keywords=kuhn+rikon+pressure+cooker

Also, any recommendations on an induction plate?

Mucho Bocho
07-16-2013, 10:54 AM
Danny, This is the unit have and its wonderful and I paid at least $100 more than its listed. Also, This PC is from their Hotel line. Commercial grade, dam bullet proof. It will give you the best of both worlds. Useful size even for stocks. I made one yesterday. You can buy the 1/2 pint jars to do pressure-roast vegetables.

What I really like about it is it has a waffle texture to the bottom that facilitates browing/maillard too.

I've had it for ten years maybe, never regretted getting a larger one.

http://www.amazon.com/Kuhn-Rikon-Duromatic-Pressure-Braiser/dp/B001A08V82/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1373986242&sr=8-2&keywords=hotel+braiser

Zwiefel
07-16-2013, 03:32 PM
Danny, This is the unit have and its wonderful and I paid at least $100 more than its listed. Also, This PC is from their Hotel line. Commercial grade, dam bullet proof. It will give you the best of both worlds. Useful size even for stocks. I made one yesterday. You can buy the 1/2 pint jars to do pressure-roast vegetables.

What I really like about it is it has a waffle texture to the bottom that facilitates browing/maillard too.

I've had it for ten years maybe, never regretted getting a larger one.

http://www.amazon.com/Kuhn-Rikon-Duromatic-Pressure-Braiser/dp/B001A08V82/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1373986242&sr=8-2&keywords=hotel+braiser

Looks like you have the 5q version of the 8q I was looking at...Think I'm going to go with that.

I saw a number of different induction plates on Amazon as well. Prices seem to range from $50 to $200. They seem to come in 1300 and 1800 watts...I'm assuming 1800 is better. No idea what criteria are important beyond that.

Here's a couple I found that looked good:

http://www.amazon.com/BergHOFF-Single-Touch-Screen-Induction/dp/B0040SYUEK/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1373999356&sr=8-7&keywords=%2Binduction+cook+top

(1600W, 10 power level settings, up to 450F in 30* increments)

and

http://www.amazon.com/1800-Watt-Portable-Induction-Countertop-8100MC/dp/B0045QEPYM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374003047&sr=8-1&keywords=%2Binduction+cook+top

Mucho Bocho
07-16-2013, 03:40 PM
Danny, This is the one I have. I don't have any experience with any other one. Still gets great reviews.

http://www.amazon.com/1800-Watt-Portable-Induction-Countertop-8100MC/dp/B0045QEPYM/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1374003401&sr=8-10&keywords=induction+burton

This is the site that I bought mine from. They're selling the Hotel Style braiser for $420. OUCH. Between you and me, I just don't think you'll get your ROI on this pot for a long long time. The 5QT is $270? Like I said I do stock in it all the time, can make at least 3 QTS per load too.

http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/kuhn_rikon.aspx

Zwiefel
07-16-2013, 03:50 PM
Danny, This is the one I have. I don't have any experience with any other one. Still gets great reviews.

http://www.amazon.com/1800-Watt-Portable-Induction-Countertop-8100MC/dp/B0045QEPYM/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1374003401&sr=8-10&keywords=induction+burton

This is the site that I bought mine from. They're selling the Hotel Style braiser for $420. OUCH. Between you and me, I just don't think you'll get your ROI on this pot for a long long time. The 5QT is $270? Like I said I do stock in it all the time, can make at least 3 QTS per load too.

http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/kuhn_rikon.aspx

Thanks MB! I wasn't seeing much reason to spend the extra $100 on the other unit...but wondered if I was just missing something.

I usually shop Amazon to find products/reviews/etc...then I use froogle (google shopping) to find the best price...which is almost always through an amazon business partner. e.g. the 8 qt pot is available for only $50 more than the 5qt...which seems like $50 well spent.

I guess the induction unit works with this stainless PC b/c of the embedded disk in the bottom?

Mucho Bocho
07-16-2013, 03:53 PM
Zwiefel, $50 more for a 8QT might be a good option for sure. Definately works with the KR pressure cooker.

So you're going to get the KR and Dorkfoods SV PID.

GOOD GOOD

What about the chamber Vac?

Zwiefel
07-16-2013, 03:59 PM
So you're going to get the KR and Dorkfoods SV PID.

GOOD GOOD

What about the chamber Vac?

Yup, also the Duxtop induction unit, and Modernist Cuisine at home. You're going to cost me even more money than EdipisReks did! ;)

Chamber vac will have to wait a bit. as will any upgrade on the Sous vide rig.

rahimlee54
07-16-2013, 04:32 PM
I have been thinking about an induction burner maybe I'll grab this one. I am not really sure why I want it other than for gatherings here at home when I need another burner. Am I missing any uses? Besides I just want to tinker with an induction cooktop.

Mucho Bocho
07-16-2013, 04:43 PM
Rah, I've had my induction top for almost two years now. Use it nearly everyday:

Pro's:
1. Heats up water twice as fast as traditioal high heat gas burners
2.) Only heats up the pan. Very nice when cooking indoors in the summer
3.) Allows you to set it and forget it. Has a timer that shust the unit off
4.)Really very energy efficent
6.) Can get you pan to screaming high heats
5.) Very portable

Cons:
1. Does not replace a proper gas stove. Inducation is not as adjustable, usually only has ten settings. But its like a microwave, its either on or off
2. The actual burner size is small, usually around 6" So its not great for large pans
3.) Must have magnetic pans. Anything Alumnium like calphalon won't work.

Zwiefel
07-16-2013, 05:37 PM
I have been thinking about an induction burner maybe I'll grab this one. I am not really sure why I want it other than for gatherings here at home when I need another burner. Am I missing any uses? Besides I just want to tinker with an induction cooktop.

In addition to the points MB made, they are highly portable. I will find a lot of use for it in my RV....and out of the RV too....saves on propane too!

mhlee
07-16-2013, 06:30 PM
In addition to the points MB made, they are highly portable. I will find a lot of use for it in my RV....and out of the RV too....saves on propane too!

How much does it drain your RV battery/generator?

Zwiefel
07-19-2013, 03:11 PM
How much does it drain your RV battery/generator?

I only camp at places with full hookups...so....zero! :D Let's me more fully use what I'm already paying for, while generating about 1/3 as much heat that my AC will have to fight. 100% win/win.

Zwiefel
07-19-2013, 03:14 PM
Just in time for the weekend!

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5482/9320572189_43b7eb5d27.jpg
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3669/9320576585_8bf23218cd.jpg
Dammit...I thought this thing had an 11. brought the PC up to full pressure in 5 minutes though...not too shabby...about the same as my 30k burners...but with a lot less heat pumped into my kitchen.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5484/9320580661_c3c08ba74d.jpg
Going to try a "quick" ribeye in this tonight, then sear in cast iron on the induction unit. Serve with some baby veggies from the PC...and a little chimichurri sauce.

Bill13
07-19-2013, 05:04 PM
I want a full report:) I was hoping you would spring for the vac too for the same reason:lol2:

Zwiefel
07-19-2013, 07:29 PM
I want a full report:) I was hoping you would spring for the vac too for the same reason:lol2:
ha! this was already a shock to the budget...I will get the vac unit, but going to have to save for a bit...or maybe get some partners. After that, I might go for the high-end PolyScience unit so I can increase my volume. Esp nice when you have the vac unit I think.

About 2 hours in on the ribeye/delmonico. about 80 minutes in on the garlic confit. heirloom potatoes and celery root to follow along with the searing of the steak. Chimichurri is resting in the fridge...will add some of the confit once ready. Going to be epic. Doing 3 kinds of cooking tonight that are totally new to me.

Zwiefel
07-19-2013, 10:07 PM
Ready to go in the Bath:
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2858/9322604895_e1b04d3cb1.jpg

About the least sexy cooking photo I've ever taken...this is about an hour in:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5496/9325393456_91ddaf0ee1.jpg

A little pressure roasted garlic confit...well, 100 cloves worth, that was about 45 minutes of work to peel:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7370/9325390820_8a378b6497.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7387/9325384398_8bb579b006.jpg

Going into the PC for an hour:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3732/9325380582_7f467cf5ef.jpg

Letting off a bit of steam with the neighbor...
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7439/9322585547_123df918a3.jpg

Just amazing. so deeply roasted, infused with the thyme + rosemary. Definitely will follow MuchoBocho's advice about leaving 2" of headspace in the future...lots of tasty EVOO was dumped into the water :(
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5466/9322578923_41e7e0878f.jpg


ribeye done, 3 hours. Time for an icebath to help the meat relax.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3780/9325367998_cee82621e0.jpg

Heirloom potatoes and celery root with thyme, rosemary, EVOO and a bit of water. (about to be) Pressure cooked for 8 minutes.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2858/9325365422_e9a0f8a6a2.jpg

Looks a bit weird coming out of the sous vide...like it was poached.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7306/9325360526_3d2580d6a4.jpg

A quick sear with the induction plate leaves it looks a might tastier:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7283/9325357372_af254ae5ae.jpg

Very impressed with the heat/energy coming out of the induction unit...the crust was excellent. But it cost me a cast iron skillet. I left it on the burner for 3-5 minutes to heat up, then heard a very loud pop and thought I had broken the glass on the induction unit somehow. I'm guessing that the 8" induction ring was heating the center of the pan much faster than the heat could move to the outer part and the expansion rate differential was enough to crack the pan. Damn shame, it was a very well seasoned pan which I'd had for 15+ years. At least it will only cost me $25 to replace...plus a bit of cooking to reseason.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3690/9325352088_7a1538296f.jpg

Dinner was pretty tasty. The potatoes were superb...the texture was just excellent. The steak was slightly overdone, will have to drop the DSV down a few degrees next time.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2832/9322557247_27c8a81e9a.jpg

All in all, I'm very happy with my results given that I used 3 new techniques to make dinner tonight. Will only get better from here. Thanks to MuchoBocho for giving me the bug to get started on this stuff.

JCHine
07-21-2013, 02:19 AM
Looking pretty good! Did you let the steak drop temp for 10 - 20 min on the counter top, then lower temp water before the ice bath? How stuff is cooled from the bath can improve texture and moisture perception. A handy hint is to do the steaks the day before and then use the refrigerator to dry off the surface.

Final hint is that when you salt has a major bearing on taste; do it before and on long cooks the meat will taste braised rather than grilled. You can use this to your advantage to mess with folks heads.

Zwiefel
07-21-2013, 01:50 PM
Looking pretty good! Did you let the steak drop temp for 10 - 20 min on the counter top, then lower temp water before the ice bath? How stuff is cooled from the bath can improve texture and moisture perception. A handy hint is to do the steaks the day before and then use the refrigerator to dry off the surface.

Final hint is that when you salt has a major bearing on taste; do it before and on long cooks the meat will taste braised rather than grilled. You can use this to your advantage to mess with folks heads.

No, I went straight from the SV to the ice bath. I'll give your approach a try and see what happens.

I read that putting the salt in the SV bag will make the meat take on a cured texture, is that not true? Does it depend on time? temp? meat/cut?

Mucho Bocho
07-22-2013, 08:58 AM
JC, Welcome to the forum. I agree with what you've said so far about drying proteins in the refrigerator after SV and not salting meats if cooked long. Unless your trying for a cured texture.

But Could you elaborate on what you mean by "drop in temp on the counter to improve texture and moisture." I usually go from the warm water to a very cold, mostly icy water bath and hold in cold water for 30min or so. Also, I chill all of my proteins after SV.

Zwiefel, Sorry about your cast iron pan, I've only heard about that hapening. But look at it this way, now you get a chance to buy a Debuyer. I know you hate me now ;-)


Looking pretty good! Did you let the steak drop temp for 10 - 20 min on the counter top, then lower temp water before the ice bath? How stuff is cooled from the bath can improve texture and moisture perception. A handy hint is to do the steaks the day before and then use the refrigerator to dry off the surface.

Final hint is that when you salt has a major bearing on taste; do it before and on long cooks the meat will taste braised rather than grilled. You can use this to your advantage to mess with folks heads.

Zwiefel
07-22-2013, 10:45 AM
now you get a chance to buy a Debuyer. I know you hate me now ;-)

That's EXACTLY what was on my mind....one of those. ;)

Mucho Bocho
07-22-2013, 10:56 AM
Z, I'd say for you and your spouse, a 10" would be the best size. 12" is nice too but I grab my 10" more than my 8", 12" or 14" Frypan

$54 shipped

http://www.westelm.com/products/382358/?catalogId=31&bnrid=3918508&cm_ven=Google_PLA&cm_cat=Dining_+_Kitchen&cm_pla=Cookware&cm_ite=West_Elm_WE_Market_Carbon_Steel_de_Buyer_Fr ying_Pan%2C_10%22_-_Gray&srccode=cii_17588969&cpncode=33-158474954-2

Justin0505
07-22-2013, 01:40 PM
Great update! I see you certainly went large enough on the PC! Not sure to get a 6 or 7.4? GET AN 8! That thing is a beast!

Sorry to hear about the pan, that made me sad to see: like losing an old friend.

You should also look at Paderno heavy carbon steel pans. I got one to replace my debuyer mineral that warped. Carbons steel takes a bit longer to get a stable patina, but it's though as nails and seems to resist warping / return to unwarped state much better than iron.
Its also a bit lighter and has an optional oem silicon handle sleeve that fits really well. Cheaper too...

Chuckles
07-22-2013, 02:08 PM
I got paderno pans at the last job. Lighter, tough as nails and cheap.

I think knifemerchant has pretty good pricing on them.

Mucho Bocho
07-22-2013, 02:19 PM
I'm pretty sure that EReiks bought both and said that they perform comparable but I think he was more fond of the De Buyer. $54 for a 10 Debuyer or $33 for a Paderno. i have to say that is a very nice price, but I'm a Debuyer Guy myself but in actual cooking it prrobably doesn't make that much difference.

Justin, How did you warp your pan? Did you put it in a sink of water immediately after high hear frying? They are built like tanks?

Zwiefel
07-22-2013, 02:27 PM
Z, I'd say for you and your spouse, a 10" would be the best size. 12" is nice too but I grab my 10" more than my 8", 12" or 14" Frypan

$54 shipped

http://www.westelm.com/products/382358/?catalogId=31&bnrid=3918508&cm_ven=Google_PLA&cm_cat=Dining_+_Kitchen&cm_pla=Cookware&cm_ite=West_Elm_WE_Market_Carbon_Steel_de_Buyer_Fr ying_Pan%2C_10"_-_Gray&srccode=cii_17588969&cpncode=33-158474954-2 (http://www.westelm.com/products/382358/?catalogId=31&bnrid=3918508&cm_ven=Google_PLA&cm_cat=Dining_+_Kitchen&cm_pla=Cookware&cm_ite=West_Elm_WE_Market_Carbon_Steel_de_Buyer_Fr ying_Pan%2C_10)

Thanks MB...I'll have to mull the 10/12 question. I've used 12" for 90% of my cooking for some years...

The link said that the pan is only oven safe to 400F for 10 minutes...WTH? I would think this thing would be bulletproof in the oven. What gives?


Great update! I see you certainly went large enough on the PC! Not sure to get a 6 or 7.4? GET AN 8! That thing is a beast!

Sorry to hear about the pan, that made me sad to see: like losing an old friend.

You should also look at Paderno heavy carbon steel pans. I got one to replace my debuyer mineral that warped. Carbons steel takes a bit longer to get a stable patina, but it's though as nails and seems to resist warping / return to unwarped state much better than iron.
Its also a bit lighter and has an optional oem silicon handle sleeve that fits really well. Cheaper too...

Honestly, I think it's a great size...wider than it is high, but high enough to fit pint-size mason jars (7 of them!). I was worried it would be a little cumbersome, but I don't think so at all after using it for about 10 hours now. That being said, I have a generously sized kitchen to store it in.

I'll have to do some digging on the Paderno vs DeBuyer....I know there is a huge long thread on here about love for the DeBuyers though...

GlassEye
07-22-2013, 03:34 PM
Thanks MB...I'll have to mull the 10/12 question. I've used 12" for 90% of my cooking for some years...

The link said that the pan is only oven safe to 400F for 10 minutes...WTH? I would think this thing would be bulletproof in the oven. What gives?




The handle is coated in some sort of clear powdercoat, I think that is the problem, but I still put mine in the oven with no problems yet.

You may be able to find some DeBuyer pans at Tuesday Morning, I got mine there for over half off.

Justin0505
07-22-2013, 03:42 PM
Ha, there's also a thread about paderno :) THREAD WAR! :knight:

MB: dont know what specifically caused it, crappy electic burner sure didnt help, but induction will be even worse for that. I didnt really abuse it (no full hot to full quench or anything like that), it just seemed to warp as it heated up, but never quite went all the way back to shape afterwards.
Where as I HAVE really abused the Paderno and while it warps very slightly when heating, it flattens right back out when it reaches even temp or when it cools all the way off after. I wanted a pan that didnt need babying; ive already got a vintage Wagner for fussing over.
Another point I'll add is that the paderno has better dynamic temp response, but still plenty of thermal inertia.

daveb
07-22-2013, 07:02 PM
Comparing De Buyer Mineral and Paderno is apples and oranges. De Buyer makes a blue steel pan that weighs less than the mineral lines and is considerably cheaper - just like the Paderno.

That said I don't know what "Mineral" means about the actual composition of the pan. Do know that I prefer De Buyer Mineral B to De Buyer Blue Steel. No experience w Paderno.

Prob one of those things where you can't make a bad choice.

JCHine
07-26-2013, 06:17 AM
Sorry been busy with work - Heard about chilling on cooking issues podcast and it does make a difference. Basically you let it cool down for 20-30 minutes then into cold water then ice water. Did some tests awhile back with duck confit and the moisture leakage was much lower in the 2 stage process and texture a little more natural.

My vote is de buyer hi temp..had the lyonaise pan that is way thin! but the hi temps are great.

Mucho Bocho
07-26-2013, 08:45 AM
JC, Wonderful feedback. I'm going to give it a try with the wings I've got to pull tonight. Any other SV gems you want to share?

JCHine
07-27-2013, 03:02 AM
With a stirred bath you can cook from frozen or defrost. It is routine now to batch cook stock/curries/ragu and vac seal flat then freeze.

Oh and Sausages...63.5c for 1 - 1.5 hours, let cool then brown in pan.

Was recommended by the maitre'd at a top Sydney restaurant...as "Life changing!"

Justin0505
07-27-2013, 04:17 AM
Comparing De Buyer Mineral and Paderno is apples and oranges. De Buyer makes a blue steel pan that weighs less than the mineral lines and is considerably cheaper - just like the Paderno.

That said I don't know what "Mineral" means about the actual composition of the pan. Do know that I prefer De Buyer Mineral B to De Buyer Blue Steel. No experience w Paderno.

Prob one of those things where you can't make a bad choice.

Debuyer "Mineral" is named as such because they are made of pure iron(a mineral), Paderno (and I'm guessing the blue steel) is carbon steel.

Zwiefel
07-27-2013, 12:24 PM
Anybody seen/used something like this?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000R051DE/ref=pe_259560_31228550_pd_re_dt_dt2

Thoughts?