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slowtyper
05-26-2011, 12:02 AM
I've watched Jon's video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvDjASvVHek)

In the video I get the 5 steps he describes, but after that do we repeat the steps replacing the medium grit stone with the fine grit stone?

FWIW I only have a 1000 and a 6000 stone.

JBroida
05-26-2011, 12:56 AM
so... on the medium stone, sharpen the two bevels into the knife... the do the ura on your 6000... the sharpen the two bevels again, but this time on the 6000. Blend them together using the 6k. the if you want to do a microbevel, use your 6k and the do the ura again... otherwise, just do the ura again... check the edge for burrs, wire edges and remove either on the stones or by stropping

slowtyper
05-26-2011, 01:32 AM
Thanks!

BTW this is offtopic but is it ok to permasoak king1000 and arashiyama 6000?

JBroida
05-26-2011, 02:25 AM
Yes and no in that order

BertMor
05-26-2011, 07:55 AM
Jon I also was very impressed with your video. One thing, I remember Louisianacook (Lee) doing a tutorial on this subject. His technique was to flatten and polish the ura first, then do the front bevel. You seem to advocate doing both sides incrementilly at the same time.

Want to expound on why you do it the way you do, as opposed to Lee's?

BTW where the heck is he, haven't seen him around in ages....

JBroida
05-26-2011, 11:53 PM
the way i do it helps minimize the burr and also keep the grinding done on the ura to a minimum... i pretty much only touch it to remove the burr i put on by sharpening the bevel. This amount works out very well for not overdoing the ura.

All that and it also happens to be the way i was trained.

slowtyper
05-27-2011, 01:18 AM
The part I have difficulty with is blending the two bevels. Feels very awkward and I'm not sure if it is accomplishing anything. What does blending it accomplish anyways?

Thanks for the info

UglyJoe
05-27-2011, 01:36 AM
well, if you don't blend the bevels then you should see two distinct bevels... i.e. a line between the two of them. If you have two distinct surfaces but you don't have a line between them, just a smooth transition between the two surfaces you've done your job. A complex bevel like that cuts as though it were thinner than if you left the two bevels distinct. Plus there is some physics to the way the convexed bevel pushes the food away that makes for a smoother feeling cut that I don't quite understand, but that I can vouch for.

BertMor
05-27-2011, 04:31 PM
the way i do it helps minimize the burr and also keep the grinding done on the ura to a minimum... i pretty much only touch it to remove the burr i put on by sharpening the bevel. This amount works out very well for not overdoing the ura.

All that and it also happens to be the way i was trained.

Actually what was described was the magic marker trick on the ura, and just flatten to the point that the edge is contacted. Then its polish and leave it alone. Almost all of the grinding is done on the front bevel. Just run the ura on the finest polish stone to remove the burr.

Seems like we are basically saying the same thing in different language.

slowtyper
05-27-2011, 09:07 PM
How much pressure when doing the ura? I found myself pushing relatively hard compared to most sharpening actions

tk59
05-28-2011, 12:29 AM
Pushing hard just isn't ever a good idea when sharpening. Sometimes it helps you remove material faster but everything else suffers: edge geometry, stone.

Dave Martell
05-28-2011, 07:45 AM
I start on the backside using a 1k stone (ONLY) for initial sharpening then use only polishing stones. The 1k has to be used EXTREMELY light handed too! The reason I do this is to set the bevel to the cutting edge because almost always a new knife comes without a flat bevel on the backside.

AGAIN - only use the 1k on the initial sharpening - use it very lightly - do just enough to get the bevel set up correctly and then use only polishing stones after this.


Once the back is set I move onto the front side.

BertMor
05-28-2011, 11:05 AM
I start on the backside using a 1k stone (ONLY) for initial sharpening then use only polishing stones. The 1k has to be used EXTREMELY light handed too! The reason I do this is to set the bevel to the cutting edge because almost always a new knife comes without a flat bevel on the backside.

AGAIN - only use the 1k on the initial sharpening - use it very lightly - do just enough to get the bevel set up correctly and then use only polishing stones after this.


Once the back is set I move onto the front side.

If you are careful, and only just flatten, is their a reason not to polish all the way through to polish stones? Or does it just not matter? Seems like an incomplete sharpening if you jump from 1K to 10K.

tk59
05-28-2011, 02:44 PM
If you are careful, and only just flatten, is their a reason not to polish all the way through to polish stones? Or does it just not matter? Seems like an incomplete sharpening if you jump from 1K to 10K.

If you want a 10k edge, you need to put the ura through your entire progression. Just keep track of the scratches and make sure they are the grit you want them to be.

Dave Martell
05-28-2011, 10:16 PM
Yeah Bert you go through all of the stones to get to the polish stones.

BertMor
05-29-2011, 08:15 AM
Yeah Bert you go through all of the stones to get to the polish stones.

Jon is seeming to say just go to 1k, no polishing. Then when the front bevel is done de-burr the ura on a polish stone. Thats what I would do after flattening and going thru the progression on the ura. But for resharpening I wouldn't touch the ura except to de-burr the ura with a polish stone.

tk59
05-29-2011, 11:45 AM
...But for resharpening I wouldn't touch the ura except to de-burr the ura with a polish stone.

That's correct.

JBroida
05-29-2011, 12:41 PM
I always say just the high grit stone because i'd rather someone spend a lot of time on an 8k stone than mess it up on a 1k stone...if you are careful, then you can start with a lower grit stone. I always say what I say for the lowest common denominator (no offense meant...i just don't want someone starting out to mess up their knife because of something I said)

tk59
05-29-2011, 05:45 PM
I always say just the high grit stone because i'd rather someone spend a lot of time on an 8k stone than mess it up on a 1k stone...if you are careful, then you can start with a lower grit stone. I always say what I say for the lowest common denominator (no offense meant...i just don't want someone starting out to mess up their knife because of something I said)

I definitely appreciate you looking out for us (me) but if I had stayed with the 8k for the ura I was working on, I'd probably still be sitting here grinding that thing. As it is, it took a good 30 min of light grinding to get it half way decent and then blending it in along the entire length of the blade until it was pretty much flat again. It was so tedious, I could feel my last marbles leaving me, lol.

slowtyper
05-30-2011, 02:44 AM
I always say just the high grit stone because i'd rather someone spend a lot of time on an 8k stone than mess it up on a 1k stone...if you are careful, then you can start with a lower grit stone. I always say what I say for the lowest common denominator (no offense meant...i just don't want someone starting out to mess up their knife because of something I said)

As a member of the lowest common denominator club, I thank you.

BertMor
05-30-2011, 09:32 AM
tk, if you are 'blending' the ura, something is not right. The ura is supposed to be dead flat. My Masamoto, came darn near dead flatg, and needed very little work.. Others have told the story that the ura was a mess and needed lots of work. I bet Dave could tell us how bad it can really get.

tk59
05-30-2011, 09:50 AM
tk, if you are 'blending' the ura, something is not right. The ura is supposed to be dead flat. My Masamoto, came darn near dead flatg, and needed very little work.. Others have told the story that the ura was a mess and needed lots of work. I bet Dave could tell us how bad it can really get.

Normally, I'd agree but I had to grind a new profile on a fixer-upper and the ura didn't make it all the way around the blade. Thus, I had to grind the back side until the ura showed up in the offending area. This left the back side not quite flat so I blended until the back side was flat again. Let me say that this is not easy to do on an 8x3 stone, lol.