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Matus
07-21-2013, 01:02 PM
I would like to ask about the difference between Suisin INOX and Suisin INOX Honyaki knives. The obvious difference is the design of the knives (western vs. japanese), but I guess there is more difference give that the Honyaki knives are 3 times the price. They seem to use the same steel (12c27), but that is all I found out.

I have browsed around, but did not find an answer.

thanks, Matus

Timthebeaver
07-21-2013, 01:25 PM
No, the steel is different. The Western handled INOX knives are AUS-8 (RC 58), the INOX Honyaki are Sandvik 19c27 (RC 61).

ThEoRy
07-21-2013, 01:48 PM
I would imagine the honyaki are forged with traditional honyaki (monosteel) techniques while the regular inox are not. I don't know if the western are sanmai or warikomi (cladded) or simply stamped or laser/water jet cut monosteel. Maybe Jon or Mari has some more insight since they both carry this line.

Zwiefel
07-21-2013, 02:45 PM
The SIH are not true honyaki, merely monosteel knives.

TheDispossessed
07-21-2013, 03:59 PM
i've owned both,
the western inox is one soft, unremarkable piece of steel and fairly thick at that (to me) but excellent for the price and great for beginners and home cooks who prefer yo-handles. can take some abuse as a workhorse.
the IH is indeed not a real honyaki from what i can tell but is quite thin and hard. it is superbly ground if you are a righty and may be the benchmark knife for stainless wa-gyuto laser and such. i personally did not like the machi because it pinched my finger from time to time.
I think that many makers have caught up with suisin on this line and are offering comparable stainless laser types for much less.

TheDispossessed
07-21-2013, 04:02 PM
I find the INOX thing funny, from a marketing perspective, because it does sound cooler than stainless

labor of love
07-21-2013, 04:24 PM
+1 to not liking the machi gap on suisin IH. other than that, theyre fantastic.

Matus
07-21-2013, 04:34 PM
Thanks, I actually did not know what 'honyaki' means (and did some googling afterwards). The information on the steel is very valuable - for some reason I got the impression that the cheaper Suisin INOX knives are also made from the 12c27 (which seemed possible since my Mora 2000 is also made from 12c27, costs 25 and is really good).

So - once I was enlightened, how is the AUS-8 from Suisin? is it worth it for its price? I mean, I have not heard too much praise for AUS-8 so far (word of hunting knives though)

labor of love
07-21-2013, 04:43 PM
for the price, the inox western is great. but it is what it is. More of a intro Jknife. goot fit and finish being hardened to 60hrc seem to me the 2 best things about that knife. alot of knives ive compared to the inox western(masamoto vg, misono moly, maybe even mac)dont have steel that is hardened as high hrc.

mhlee
07-21-2013, 04:46 PM
I find the INOX thing funny, from a marketing perspective, because it does sound cooler than stainless

INOX is generally used term by Japanese makers to refer to a stainless steel. I have a stainless Sakai Takayuki petty knife that has "INOX" stamped in it.

berko
07-21-2013, 04:50 PM
i thought inox was short for inoxidable.

mhlee
07-21-2013, 04:53 PM
Thanks, I actually did not know what 'honyaki' means (and did some googling afterwards). The information on the steel is very valuable - for some reason I got the impression that the cheaper Suisin INOX knives are also made from the 12c27 (which seemed possible since my Mora 2000 is also made from 12c27, costs 25 and is really good).

So - once I was enlightened, how is the AUS-8 from Suisin? is it worth it for its price? I mean, I have not heard too much praise for AUS-8 so far (word of hunting knives though)

As has been written here many times, how good a certain steel is depends on how it's treated. The same steel used by different makers can be drastically different.

That being said, I used the Suisin INOX western and liked the performance of that knife more compared directly to a CarboNext. It's a little thinner, felt more balanced in the hand, cut through many items more smoothly than the CarboNext. I did not sharpen it so I can't comment on how long it held an edge, etc., but after using one for a week almost daily, I felt that the edge retention for a home cook is sufficient. I was also more impressed with the performance of the Suisin INOX Western than a Hiromoto.

I would personally choose the Suisin INOX Western over many other knives at similar prices.

mhlee
07-21-2013, 04:55 PM
i thought inox was short for inoxidable.

I believe it is. But Japanese makers seem to commonly identify knives made of stainless steel as "Inox."

Matus
07-21-2013, 04:55 PM
sorry, double post because of problems with internet connection

Pensacola Tiger
07-21-2013, 05:06 PM
I believe it is. But Japanese makers seem to commonly identify knives made of stainless steel as "Inox."

As do the French makers:

http://www.thebestthings.com/knives/graphics/sabatier_steak_rs.jpg

Zwiefel
07-21-2013, 09:55 PM
the IH...is quite thin and hard. it is superbly ground if you are a righty and may be the benchmark knife for stainless wa-gyuto laser and such.

It's very good, I've had mine for about 18 months and it's still a joy everytime I pick it up.

While I haven't used one, I understand that JKI's Gesshin Ginga is almost as good, but a much better value.

labor of love
07-21-2013, 10:08 PM
ginga and suisin are equally good in my opinion, their strengths are just little different.

tripleq
07-21-2013, 11:25 PM
The SIH are not true honyaki, merely monosteel knives.

:thumbsup:

Drum N Baste
07-21-2013, 11:34 PM
As do the French makers:

Don't forget, a certain Swiss maker even integrated it into their name:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51a5woM2jyL._SL1500_.jpg

brainsausage
07-21-2013, 11:42 PM
I've always presumed that the Inox was a carry over from French smiths in regards to the Japanese application, especially in regards to the fact that most gyutos have a heavily influenced sabatier profile.

chinacats
07-22-2013, 12:01 AM
As to the honyaki, I believe that Suisin is referring to monosteel. Mizu-honyaki I believe is what people generally refer to as honyaki, meaning differentially hardened and with a hamon.

Though I could be completely wrong:>)

edit: just realized that Z beat me to it on the first page...:newhere:

Timthebeaver
07-22-2013, 05:54 AM
More specifically I believe Mizu-Honyaki is water quenched.

JBroida
07-22-2013, 05:59 AM
to clarify, both the suisin inox honyaki and inox western are zen-ko blades, not honyaki in the traditional sense. Traditional honyaki can be done in both water and oil for what its worth. Anyways, the suisin inox western is aus8 at about 58-59 hrc, while the inox honyaki is 19c27 at about 61hrc. The inox honyaki is thinner overall, has a japanese style handle, better fit and finish (rounded spine and choil for example), and is thinner behind the edge. The suisin inox western is easier to sharpen, a bit thicker, a bit thicker behind the edge, western handled, and does not have a rounded spine and choil (but is not particularly sharp). The inox honyaki has better edge retention though.

Any other questions?

Pcol2000
07-22-2013, 06:08 AM
to clarify, both the suisin inox honyaki and inox western are zen-ko blades, not honyaki in the traditional sense. Traditional honyaki can be done in both water and oil for what its worth. Anyways, the suisin inox western is aus8 at about 58-59 hrc, while the inox honyaki is 19c27 at about 61hrc. The inox honyaki is thinner overall, has a japanese style handle, better fit and finish (rounded spine and choil for example), and is thinner behind the edge. The suisin inox western is easier to sharpen, a bit thicker, a bit thicker behind the edge, western handled, and does not have a rounded spine and choil (but is not particularly sharp). The inox honyaki has better edge retention though.

Any other questions?

I feel like this needs a "boom" at the end

JBroida
07-22-2013, 06:10 AM
lol

ThEoRy
07-22-2013, 08:43 AM
zen-ko blades

There it is. That's the term for it. I remember we had this conversation previously a few years ago but I couldn't remember what Jon called it. Thanks for clarifying the western inox construction as well.

Matus
07-22-2013, 01:59 PM
Jon (and others), thank you. I do not think I have any questions left on the topic.

daveb
07-23-2013, 01:33 AM
Any other questions?

Not getting off that easy Jon. Is final answer that INOX is generic term used for stainless?

I've been chasing this question quite a bit. I've a Suisin IH Gyuto. Like it. Understand that Suisin Western INOX is AUS8. And that the "Special" INOX in Korin's recent passaround is AUS10 - a little harder than 8. I also have a Tadasuna INOX suji that I like a lot. Gator's site suggests that Tad INOX is gengetsu(sp?) - the same steel Suisin uses in single bevel stainless but does not call INOX?

Finally, if INOX = stainless, would it correct to refer to the Ginga as inox?

Thanks. And welcome back.

JBroida
07-23-2013, 01:56 AM
inox is short for inoxydable in french... its popularly used to refer to any and all stainless in many parts of europe as well as aisa.

Tadatsuna inox was listed as ginsanko (not gengetsu... thats a line we have custom made for us). Its different from the steel in the inox honyaki.

Anyways, any stainless steel could be called inox... gesshin ginga, suisin inox and inox honyaki, misono stainless, sakai yusuke... even shun.

On the single bevel knives, suisin makes 2 types that i know of right now... inox honyaki (19c27) and ginsanko (which is a clad knife using softer stainless cladding and harder ginsanko as the cutting edge).

EdipisReks
07-23-2013, 02:10 AM
I've been chasing this question quite a bit.

a look at any French or Italian to English dictionary would have solved this for you. Or looking at a Beretta 92 with stainless slide.

brainsausage
07-23-2013, 02:35 AM
a look at any French or Italian to English dictionary would have solved this for you. Or looking at a Beretta 92 with stainless slide.

I run with a Sig Sauer 226 personally... 'Merica!

(kidding about the 'merica part, although it was made just a state away for me. Kind of cool, considering what bad ass guns they are.)

EdipisReks
07-23-2013, 02:36 AM
if it was made a state away from you, then it ain't a real SIG (mine were made in W. Germany).

brainsausage
07-23-2013, 02:58 AM
Not true. Exeter New Hamshire has been producing for Sig since 1990.

brainsausage
07-23-2013, 02:59 AM
Been meaning to take a tour for some time now.

EdipisReks
07-23-2013, 03:02 AM
Not true. Exeter New Hamshire has been producing for Sig since 1990.

you missed my point: not real SIGs, unless they are W. German. :) I don't actually own any SIGs, anymore, so I'm just being a jerk. :)

brainsausage
07-23-2013, 03:15 AM
I know you are Jacob;) But they are real Sigs, in fact they're better cuz they machine them all in Exeter. Quality control!!!

EdipisReks
07-23-2013, 03:20 AM
I know you are Jacob;) But they are real Sigs, in fact they're better cuz they machine them all in Exeter. Quality control!!!

*pfffftttt* :)

EdipisReks
07-23-2013, 03:22 AM
I wish the Colts I still own were machined like those bastard SIGs! Would have saved me a lot of money.