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Matus
07-21-2013, 02:58 PM
So, to follow The code :)

Location:
- Germany
- ordering from abroad is not a problem, just must be counted in. I will soon be ordering some stones from JKI, so it could come along.

Knife type:
- Gyuto, 240 or even 210 mm (not sure there yet)
- right handed
- would prefer japanese handle, my wife prefers western one, but I am the one who will actually use the knife, so .. cool:
- stainless or semi-stainless, would consider stainless clad carbon steel core.
- up to around $400 / 400

Knife use:
- home use
- slicing meat, onions, zucchini and similar. NO bones
- it will replace Yoshikane Damascus SLD 270mm Sujihiki (see my FS / FT thread) which for me is a bit too long, the blade has nearly no belly and the blade at the heel is a bit too narrow (I did not realise these when I bought the knife - lack of experience on my side). I DO like the toughness and sharpness of the Yoshikane.
- I mostly use hammer grip.
- I would prefer lighter knife - the Yoshikane weights 130g and it feels great in hand. So something along that line. Few grams more would not be a problem of course.
- I do appreciate aesthetics, so fit and finish counts. But no unnecessary or non-functional decoration.
- edge retention - this knife will be used few times a week, so I guess even average (among 'good' knives) should be sufficient
- the blade should not flex (much), I would prefer tougher blade - at least as the Yoshikane.
- cutting movement: slicing, rocking and want to learn 'chopping' to speed up with onions.
- ease of use - no wedging with harder vegetables.

Knife maintenance:
- I use proper wooden board for cutting
- I sharpen my own knives with stones since about 3 months and getting good results (still improving though)
- I will be buying more stones soon :)
- I use magnetic bar to store the knives
- I can oil knife handles if necessary (I recently got dedicated board-wax for that purpose)
- I take care of my knives in general

I am simply looking for a 'normal' Gyuto that is not too hard on the maintenance and takes a great edge ;)

Timthebeaver
07-21-2013, 06:04 PM
First thing that strikes me is that you're looking at knives in the laser category (140g is typical for a Sakai laser @ 240mm (230mm on the edge)). Obviously there is going to be more flex with a laser. The Yoshikane is tough steel, you're going to struggle to match that in this category too.

Matus
07-22-2013, 01:46 AM
Tim, thank you. But I thought that the Yoshikane falls in the same category with its measurements:
Width of spine at handle - 3.2 mm
Width of spine at heel - 2.7 mm
Width of spine at middle - 1.7 mm
Width of spine 1cm from the tip - 0.8 mm
Weight: 130g

What am I missing?

eaglerock
07-22-2013, 01:52 AM
You had a sujihiki and you want a gyuto, that is some extra steel.
What about a yoshikane skd gyuto? :D

Matus
07-22-2013, 02:05 AM
Of course, I did not realize that. Truth is, that I like the toughness of the Yoshi I have right now.

Yoshikane SKD Gyuto could indeed be an option. What should I expect from that steel compared to SLD?

Timthebeaver
07-22-2013, 05:22 AM
Of course, I did not realize that. Truth is, that I like the toughness of the Yoshi I have right now.

Yoshikane SKD Gyuto could indeed be an option. What should I expect from that steel compared to SLD?

The Yoshikane SKD kasumi gyuto (I have the "Zensho" that used to be sold by Maksim) is a fantastic knife, but it's certainly not lightweight (201 grams w/ large burnt chestnut handle). Great cutter with dramatic distal taper, stellar grind and very thin behind the edge. Good edge retention, and very tough.

I suspect that there is very little to choose between SKD (SKD12 aka A2) and SLD (SKD11 aka D2) assuming heat treat is similar.

eaglerock
07-22-2013, 10:01 AM
I agree the skd is a real workhorse,I think it is a very balanced knife, not a light weight but that is how it goes with tough knives.
According to the yoshikane sld passsround I think that skd steel will stay shap a lot longer.

cclin
07-22-2013, 10:12 AM
Of course, I did not realize that. Truth is, that I like the toughness of the Yoshi I have right now.

Yoshikane SKD Gyuto could indeed be an option. What should I expect from that steel compared to SLD?

from my exprerance, compare between "yoshikane Hammer Finished SKD11"(I'm no longer own) & "yoshikane black Damascus SLD"; SLD is thinner overall, better fit and finish, better edge retention and thinner behind the edge.
SKD11/SLD/D2 are very similar but not exactly same
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s482/54cclin/Screenshot_2013-07-22-05-06-21_zpsc4bfc756.png (http://s1054.photobucket.com/user/54cclin/media/Screenshot_2013-07-22-05-06-21_zpsc4bfc756.png.html)

eaglerock
07-22-2013, 11:16 AM
The maxim skd steel is not the same as the hammered one right ?

mine is very thin behind the edge with perfect F&F.

cclin
07-22-2013, 11:29 AM
The maxim skd steel is not the same as the hammered one right ?

mine is very thin behind the edge with perfect F&F.

I think Maxim's house brand "Zensho" use same SKD11 or SKD12 steel but with better F/F than yoshikane Hammer Finished one.....

Timthebeaver
07-22-2013, 11:39 AM
Zensho is per Maksim's spec, and kasumi, not hammered finish. Steel is SKD12 (A2)

There is a thread on FF where Larrin Thomas suggests that A2 is better cutlery steel than D2. Ymmv.

Matus
07-23-2013, 03:47 AM
Right now I am looking at:
- Konosuke HD extra tall
- Yoshikane SLD
- Tanaka R2 (damascus blade and wa handle) - very interesting knife indeed
- AEB-L Gyuto from Marko (he does some great work based on what I have seen on his webpage)

DeepCSweede
07-23-2013, 08:49 AM
If you are willing to wait - I would go with Marko

daddy yo yo
07-23-2013, 09:15 AM
me too, i would go for marko!

in the meantime, maybe you can find smth. nice in the B/S/T section that will help you to bridge the gap until you will get your marko gyuto... and when you get your marko, you can sell the other knife...

cclin
07-23-2013, 11:48 AM
Right now I am looking at:
- Konosuke HD extra tall
- Yoshikane SLD
- Tanaka R2 (damascus blade and wa handle) - very interesting knife indeed
- AEB-L Gyuto from Marko (he does some great work based on what I have seen on his webpage)

Marko sure makes great knife if you willing to wait for ??? months(I order 3 knives from Marko 7 month ago & still waiting.....)
you may also consider Gengetsu semi-stainless@ JKI or DT ITK if you can find one. I enjoy both knives very much.
yoshikane SLD is my favor all-around gyuto, superb geometry- wide bevels with incredible thin behind the edge glides through everything with no stiction! since you already own yoshikane SLD suji, you should know how nice the SLD steel feel(f/f, edge retention,etc.....)
here are pictures of my yoshikane SLD gyuto you can check out profile & geometry. I hope this will help.
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s482/54cclin/9c8f0ff1-3ed7-4c58-9b2e-b122662c9686_zps38e02bd3.jpg (http://s1054.photobucket.com/user/54cclin/media/9c8f0ff1-3ed7-4c58-9b2e-b122662c9686_zps38e02bd3.jpg.html)
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s482/54cclin/20130625_214452_zps175154c0.jpg (http://s1054.photobucket.com/user/54cclin/media/20130625_214452_zps175154c0.jpg.html)