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View Full Version : First Look Masamoto AEB-L Wa-Gyuto 240mm



bamin
07-23-2013, 09:04 PM
Look what showed up in the mail today! I haven't used it yet but I figured I would put up pictures for everyone to see first. I have put it alongside the Masamoto Honyaki Wa-Gyuto for comparison. They are pretty much the same, the differences are:

1. AEB-L is slightly taller than the honyaki (49mm vs ~49mm)

2. AEB-L is slightly thinner at the spine (3mm vs 4mm)

Keep in mind that these measurements were taken with a ruler not a caliper.

Other things that I have noticed is that the AEB-L has a little flex in the blade whereas the honyaki has none. Comes with an asymmetric edge that seems pretty decent OTB. The saya for the AEB-L (identical to the honyaki saya) does not hold the knife by friction since the opening is too wide, might have to get a pin and drill a hole. Fit and finish are what you would expect, the spine and choil are both rounded.

That's all I can think of for the moment.

http://imageshack.us/a/img823/6282/4zl6.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img689/2431/ykjf.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img199/376/pr7.JPG

http://imageshack.us/a/img844/7880/xujl.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img6/2913/au0m.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img703/4415/22lz.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img707/7410/et3d.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img29/6556/ajx8.jpg

bamin
07-23-2013, 09:05 PM
For the spine shots, the AEB-L is on the right. For the choil shots the honyaki is above the AEB-L.

labor of love
07-23-2013, 11:45 PM
nice score. so the aebl is 49mm at the spine, how tall is the carbon?

wsfarrell
07-24-2013, 12:40 AM
Where did you find this?

labor of love
07-24-2013, 12:44 AM
korin. theyre instock. or atleast they were.

bamin
07-24-2013, 12:44 AM
nice score. so the aebl is 49mm at the spine, how tall is the carbon?

The honyaki? I wrote it wrong, sorry. The height at the heel is ~47mm. So no significant difference.

bamin
07-24-2013, 12:46 AM
Where did you find this?

Korin, they have 2 more in stock in the store and are planning to bring them in as a regularly stocked item. You can also get the 15% off right now.

bamin
07-24-2013, 12:48 AM
If you look at the bevel on the AEB-L at the tip, it is larger than the bevel as it extends to the heel. Would you call this a sharpening mistake?

TheDispossessed
07-24-2013, 08:38 AM
If you look at the bevel on the AEB-L at the tip, it is larger than the bevel as it extends to the heel. Would you call this a sharpening mistake?
i think it's deliberate and it's how masamoto sharpens their knives. my vg petty came like that. probably a little helpful considering ootb tips are usually on the thick side.

TheDispossessed
07-24-2013, 08:39 AM
i'd really like to hear about steel performance on this one.

marc4pt0
07-24-2013, 09:47 AM
Can't seem to find them on their site. Maybe I'm too late?

hambone.johnson
07-24-2013, 11:42 AM
Yeah Mark, I just looked Too, no such luck. I will keep an eye out for the next round. I DO love some AEB-L and I have ALWAYS wanted a Masamaoto.

Timthebeaver
07-24-2013, 11:54 AM
I think they only got them very recently, have never been listed iirc.

labor of love
07-24-2013, 03:58 PM
go to the korin subforum here at KKF if youre interested. PM Mari.

bamin
07-24-2013, 05:12 PM
I worked with Wendy Yang at Korin. If you call she will be able to help you out since they aren't on the website.

I have so far just cut up a bell pepper really quick with the knife but I liked it. Once I have more time to play with it and give it a sharpening I will make an update with my impressions.

bamin
07-24-2013, 05:13 PM
i think it's deliberate and it's how masamoto sharpens their knives. my vg petty came like that. probably a little helpful considering ootb tips are usually on the thick side.

Cool, the only other Masamoto I have is the honyaki gyuto and I couldn't remember if it was like that too.

EdipisReks
07-25-2013, 07:52 PM
Good looking knife.

bkdc
07-26-2013, 07:36 AM
It's identical to a KS. If you have a KS, the geometry is the same. The only visual difference, other than the lack of patina with use, is that it is stamped with an 'S' on the left hand side of the blade at the tang in front of the handle. It's obviously asymmetric. One side of the blade is completely flat. The other is convex ground.

mhlee
07-26-2013, 12:12 PM
It's identical to a KS. If you have a KS, the geometry is the same. The only visual difference, other than the lack of patina with use, is that it is stamped with an 'S' on the left hand side of the blade at the tang in front of the handle. It's obviously asymmetric. One side of the blade is completely flat. The other is convex ground.

The KS I have (bought used, but not thinned along the faces of the blade) appears to be very slightly convex ground on the right side (looking down the spine to the tip). I would not go so far as to say that my KS is clearly asymmetrically ground, it's closer to flat (which the previous owner noted as well).

Members have previously commented that there is a significant amount of variation between KS knives. Perhaps the grind is one of the things that there is a lot of variation with.

bkdc
07-26-2013, 12:20 PM
I would not go so far as to say that my KS is clearly asymmetrically ground, it's closer to flat (which the previous owner noted as well).


It's the same answer I give to everyone. Take a ruler. Hold it up against one side of the blade. It will sit FLUSH against the ruler indicating that the blade face is flat. Then put the ruler against the other side of the blade and observe how the convexity curves away from the straight ruler edge. This is an obvious asymmetric grind. Only the eye is fooled due to the thinness of the blade. But the ruler will reveal the asymmetry.

TheDispossessed
07-26-2013, 11:34 PM
i'm left handed, i don't like to think about asymmetry..

Chefdog
07-28-2013, 10:38 AM
Any updates on how this knife is performing?

NO ChoP!
07-28-2013, 11:04 AM
Global Rakuten has them for $225.....

Chefdog
07-28-2013, 11:18 AM
And is it definitely a 100% copy of the carbon KS?

marc4pt0
07-28-2013, 11:19 AM
Is it ok (allowed) to post a link for it?

NO ChoP!
07-28-2013, 11:22 AM
A good suggestion greasedbullet gave me was to use google to search rakuten, and it works like a charm. Just google; global rakuten masamoto....the translations are somewhat sketchy on that sight, though.

Good deals on Shigefusa and Yoshikane can be found as well....

marc4pt0
07-28-2013, 11:30 AM
Found one in "original Sweden steel with an odd black and white photo...

TheDispossessed
07-28-2013, 11:45 AM
my concern, honestly with the aeb-l KS would be that, traditionally, stainless wa-gyutos are only hardened into the high 50s. Yusuke and Ashi, etc make Hrc 61 knives specifically upon request from Keichi and Jon. Even suisin's IH line is an even 60 and from what i understand they are doing a pretty great job with their HT. I don't get the impression Masamoto is the kind of company that is aggresively watching overseas knife trends. Of course, this is all speculation and HRC isn't the end all anyways.

NO ChoP!
07-28-2013, 12:05 PM
Marc4pt0, that's it...

Seller Yamakawa...must google masamoto, then enter his store to find it.

In very rough translation it was confirmed this is a stainless gyuto....

I pm'd chefdog the link...

Timthebeaver
07-28-2013, 12:13 PM
my concern, honestly with the aeb-l KS would be that, traditionally, stainless wa-gyutos are only hardened into the high 50s. Yusuke and Ashi, etc make Hrc 61 knives specifically upon request from Keichi and Jon. Even suisin's IH line is an even 60 and from what i understand they are doing a pretty great job with their HT. I don't get the impression Masamoto is the kind of company that is aggresively watching overseas knife trends. Of course, this is all speculation and HRC isn't the end all anyways.

I think this is the key statement. I don't doubt for one second that the HRC61 Sakai knives are in that ballpark, but HRC numbers have often been misrepresented in the past (and still are). If the knife performs, it performs. Remember the craze/hype of the Aritsugu A-type (purported HRC 60-61) and it's mystery steel with legendary toughness and edge holding?. Then someone actually got one tested = 58-59 HRC.

chefwatson
07-28-2013, 12:14 PM
it is real easy to go to global.rakuten.com and on the home page search masamoto. 2 pages of their knives come up. You can tell by price if it is a KS, KK and so on. Click the knife you are interested in and look for the model number. The stainless is sw-3124 for the 240 and so on. You can cross-reference model numbers with JCK can find exactly what you are looking for. There is nothing difficult about using their site.

labor of love
07-28-2013, 12:25 PM
korin mari told me the aeb-l masamoto is hardened to hrc 60 for those who are curious.

Miles
07-28-2013, 02:24 PM
Rockwell is definitely not the be all end all for performance. Steel, heat treat, grind, etc all play into it. It does give some clue, but if the heat treat is off and it's over or under hardened, the performance is going to suffer. One of my chef buddies had a Yusuke which he liked for the geometry and feel, but he really felt the slightly lower rockwell compromised the edge holding and performance. He's since picked up a newer one and said it's much improved. One side note, IIRC on the Suisin IH, both Korin and JCK (when they carried them) clocked it at 61-62. It's markedly harder than what we've been discussing here.

Chefdog
07-28-2013, 02:26 PM
Thanks for the info guys.

marc4pt0
07-28-2013, 02:36 PM
NoChop,
Thanks for the info. Pretty tempting at that price.

Chef Watson,
Don't think there was any mention of the specific site being hard to use. You're correct in how easy it is to navigate though. Earlier this morning when I was looking for this knife my little tablet was having a difficult time opening the pages of this site.

Marko Tsourkan
07-28-2013, 02:57 PM
If you look at the bevel on the AEB-L at the tip, it is larger than the bevel as it extends to the heel. Would you call this a sharpening mistake?

Bevel is indication of thickness, so the thinner the bevel, the thinner the edge. Looks pretty thick tip to me.

JBroida
07-28-2013, 03:07 PM
actually, this is often a function of the way people sharpen in japan... the bevels at the tip tend to be a bit wider due to the way they adjust for the tip sharpening... i'm not saying if the tip is thick or not, but i do know that this kind of sharpening can commonly be seen on knives coming from japan

Timthebeaver
07-28-2013, 04:45 PM
Rockwell is definitely not the be all end all for performance. Steel, heat treat, grind, etc all play into it. It does give some clue, but if the heat treat is off and it's over or under hardened, the performance is going to suffer. One of my chef buddies had a Yusuke which he liked for the geometry and feel, but he really felt the slightly lower rockwell compromised the edge holding and performance. He's since picked up a newer one and said it's much improved. One side note, IIRC on the Suisin IH, both Korin and JCK (when they carried them) clocked it at 61-62. It's markedly harder than what we've been discussing here.

And JKI list it at 60-61. This is why I pay little attention to numbers.

My favourite gyuto is a Yoshikane SKD, which is listed just about everywhere at 64, sometimes even 65. I'd bet my bollocks to a barn dance that mine isn't, and I remember a post by Will Catcheside where he thought an SLD (also listed as 64) sujihiki was no more than 60, and I'd certainly tend to believe him on such matters.

Bottom line is I couldn't give a monkey's about the HRC, as it's a great knife.

Miles
07-28-2013, 07:46 PM
And JKI list it at 60-61. This is why I pay little attention to numbers.

My favourite gyuto is a Yoshikane SKD, which is listed just about everywhere at 64, sometimes even 65. I'd bet my bollocks to a barn dance that mine isn't, and I remember a post by Will Catcheside where he thought an SLD (also listed as 64) sujihiki was no more than 60, and I'd certainly tend to believe him on such matters.

Bottom line is I couldn't give a monkey's about the HRC, as it's a great knife.

LOL. I have a Yoshi SKD, as well. I don't know what the HRC is either. I always thought that number sounded suspiciously high, too. Regardless, it just gets it done.

As far as the Suisin IH line goes, I trust that Jon has a good bead on it. If he says it's 60-61 and everyone else says 61-62, I'd split the difference and guess it's probably right in the middle at 61 plus or minus. Splitting hairs here, really. As far as I'm concerned, reported HRC is secondary to actual performance, and really only a clue to possible performance. I've had three knives from the Suisin IH line. They all delivered and keep on delivering. They're definitely amongst my favorites.

As you so succinctly put it, bottom line is if it's a great knife...

cclin
07-28-2013, 08:57 PM
.......Yoshikane SKD, which is listed just about everywhere at 64, sometimes even 65. I'd bet my bollocks to a barn dance that mine isn't, and I remember a post by Will Catcheside where he thought an SLD (also listed as 64) sujihiki was no more than 60, and I'd certainly tend to believe him on such matters.


LOL. I have a Yoshi SKD, as well. I don't know what the HRC is either. I always thought that number sounded suspiciously high, too.....


"Rockwell hardness test operation conditions that may influence the test result. These conditions include test specimens that are below the minimum thickness for the depth of indentation; a test impression that falls too close to the edge. Sheet metal can be too thin and too soft for testing on a particular Rockwell scale without exceeding minimum thickness requirements and potentially indenting the test anvil. In this case a diamond anvil can be used to provide a consistent influence of the result."
The most accurate way of testing is on even thickness steel specimen, I doubt you can get accuracy testing results on a finished product/knife. WillC please chime in, correct me if I'm wrong!!
many knife retailers tend to list highest HRC# of steel for marketing!! for example, yoshikane SLD or SKD11 HRC 62~64 & SKD12 HRC 61~62 , many retailer just list "Steel: SKD semi-stainless HRC 64"!!

labor of love
07-28-2013, 09:02 PM
:threadjacked:
back to the masamoto. anybody know if its monosteel or not?

Timthebeaver
07-28-2013, 09:05 PM
From the pics it certainly appears that it is zen-ko/monosteel.

mhlee
07-28-2013, 11:57 PM
It's the same answer I give to everyone. Take a ruler. Hold it up against one side of the blade. It will sit FLUSH against the ruler indicating that the blade face is flat. Then put the ruler against the other side of the blade and observe how the convexity curves away from the straight ruler edge. This is an obvious asymmetric grind. Only the eye is fooled due to the thinness of the blade. But the ruler will reveal the asymmetry.

I did not say it was not convexed; I said it was slightly convex ground on the right side. I also did not say it was completely flat. I said it's closer to flat. I also said I would not go so far to say that my KS is clearly asymmetrically ground.

Your response and analysis assumes a number of things. First, a grind is not consistent from tip to heel. So, you may see convexity somewhere along the face of the blade, but at certain places, there may be more convexity or less convexity, and the grind may be higher along the face of the blade at the heel versus the tip. Second, how you place the ruler along the face of the blade matters. Are you placing it at the spine or the flattest area of the face of the blade? Third, you assume that my KS is the same as yours.

I've done your ruler test at the heel, at the middle of the blade and the tip of the blade; I actually used both a hand held level and ruler, with the level and ruler flush with the spine and the flattest portion of the face of the blade on both sides of the blade. On MY KS, there is a little convexity on the right side of the face of the blade; the convexity at the heel only goes from the edge to about 1.7 centimeters up from the edge.

The left side is close to flat ground, but not quite flat. It is definitely not as clearly asymmetrically ground in my experience as other knives I own or have used, e.g., the CarboNext which has a very asymmetric grind, or as convexed as others, e.g., my Gesshin Ginga wa-gyuto has a more pronounced convex grind. In fact, at the heel, about 1.7 cm from the edge, the grind goes from flat to a slight taper on both sides of the knife to the edge. The grind is a little more noticeable on the right side, but only slightly.

So, next time, before you make conclusions about my knife, you'll probably want to limit your opinions to yours. Because some of your assumptions about my knife are wrong.

brainsausage
07-29-2013, 12:46 AM
If you look at the bevel on the AEB-L at the tip, it is larger than the bevel as it extends to the heel. Would you call this a sharpening mistake?

I noticed this(after it was brought to my attention by another member) on a knife in the B/S/T a little while back. I thought it was done by the owner.

cclin
07-29-2013, 02:16 AM
If you look at the bevel on the AEB-L at the tip, it is larger than the bevel as it extends to the heel. Would you call this a sharpening mistake?
I think so! I don't know about masamoto SW line(aeb-l). however, my first KS gyuto had similar uneven bevel near the tip...so,I returned the knife! then, I brought my 2ND KS gyuto few months ago which came with perfect even bevel.