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View Full Version : do you prefer aogami #1/#2 to aogami super in a pro kitchen?



berko
07-30-2013, 06:23 PM
im wondering whether it would be better to go with a simple blue steel sujihiki or with one in aogami super. i think there are some reasons to prefer the former, ease of sharpening and the ability to rod beeing some of them.
what do you think? can you recommend either?

Timthebeaver
07-30-2013, 06:27 PM
Smith more important than steel. ymmv

berko
07-30-2013, 06:34 PM
that is one unsatisfying answer. what if its the same smith, assuming good heat treatment to 61 on blue and 64 on blue super.

tripleq
07-30-2013, 06:58 PM
Personally if we are talking same smith I prefer..... It depends on the knife. For a sujihiki I would go with white over any blue (not trying to confuse things or derail the thread). I just don't see the benefit for the extra cost of blue in that scenario. In a pro environment between blue steels I would likely go with blue 2 due to the extra toughness. I can't see you getting that much more performance with AS for the extra $$$.

Asteger
07-30-2013, 07:05 PM
I would suppose that you'd get better retention with the AS but it'd take you more time to sharpen in a rush. And then there's the smith-factor, as someone said. Also, not sure about this, but would you also want a bit of flex with a suji? If so, I'm not sure which steel would be better.

tk59
07-31-2013, 12:13 AM
Edge retention is dependent on usage as much as steel characteristics. All things being equal, you'd expect AS to be more wear resistant but less stable than the other Hitachi steels we see here and at that hardness, it would be more brittle and prone to chipping. There's a reason why most knives are hardened to 61 ish. That's where someone with reasonable skill will get the most out of an edge. Harder and more alloy is likely going to get you less edge retention due to damage taken during wobbles, twists, and bumps over the course of use. If you want flexibility, don't use a clad blade.

K-Fed
07-31-2013, 07:17 PM
I don't particularly care much what steel the knife is made of, as long as it's a good one that's been treated well. The steel at the edge is much less important than the grind/ geometry of the knife and the heat treat of the steel can make the same steel, done by two different people perform completely differently. That being said, I prefer blue 1 or 2, to as as it's easier to quickly touch up on a finishing stone when needed making the full sharpening progression a once in a month or two occurrence depending on use.

Brad Gibson
07-31-2013, 10:38 PM
I find my aogami super takeda suji to be very easy to sharpen and it has an incredibly sharp edge. It surpasses any I've ever seen or used. My suji can clean shave an arm, which is the only body part I've tested, after doing a very busy service with high use and portioning fish. I think it's one of the best steels money can buy. I cannot say anything for the blue 1 or 2 as I have never tried a suji that had either of these steels. I just think the hype that says that aogami super is hard to maintain is bogus, at least in the blacksmith takedas knives.

labor of love
07-31-2013, 11:57 PM
ive used 4 different knives with augami super. i loved the steel each time it was just everything else about those particular knives i found to be lacking somewhat. then again, im super picky about knives though, lol. Also, FWIW AS may be a tad more time consuming on the stones than other hitachi carbons but its still way quicker to sharpen than stainless. and unless you have reactivity problems on the edge, it should hold up pretty well, better than any other carbon steel that im aware of.

TheDispossessed
08-01-2013, 12:37 AM
i buy white, because it's cheap, gets sharp as hell and is incredibly easy to touch up, which will it will need often, very often

labor of love
08-01-2013, 12:52 AM
steel isnt as important as other factors, to me. my problem with augami super is there isnt alot of really good makers using it.

cclin
08-01-2013, 03:24 AM
understand the steel characteristics is also important when you choose a knife!!
blue#2 increase amount of carbon(C) become Blue#1(hardness increase but toughness decrease)
Blue#1 increase amount of carbon(C), Chromium(Cr) & Tungsten(W) become blue super(increasing hardness & edge retention, decreasing sharpenability)
depend on your preference in pro kitchen; as home cook, I prefer/love blue super more than blue#2(never used blue#1)
*blue super steel about 1.8x more cost than blue#1 steel in japan....

Justin0505
08-01-2013, 12:20 PM
Just about every poster has already mentioned it, but it all depends on the maker.

Takeda does a really impressive job with blue super, but I havn't use any other knives, so I dont know if Takeda is that much better than anyone else.

Ive seen a huge variance in the blue 1 and 2 knives that I've used. Blue 2 is supposed to be tougher than 1, but I had a knife out of it that had pieces just fall out of the edge every time I looked at it sideways. I also have a blue #2 deba that has pretty fantastic edge retention and great edge retention as well. I've had a blue #1 Zakurai the felt harder than my Takeda, but would microchip if used carelessly. My newest knife is one of the new Gesshin "badass" models in blue #1 and the HT is incredible hard, crazy sharp, but astonishing forgiving and (thankfully) tough and resilient enough to resist damage when I promptly buried the paper-thin tip in my cutting board during the first run.

Buy based on knife and maker, not steel.

Asteger
08-01-2013, 12:26 PM
steel isnt as important as other factors, to me. my problem with augami super is there isnt alot of really good makers using it.

Agree!

keithsaltydog
08-01-2013, 04:36 PM
Any Mono steel carbon,if you don't mind spending a little extra go for the AS.I agree wt. Brad AS steel is not hard to sharpen:)

Justin0505
08-01-2013, 07:46 PM
Any Mono steel carbon,if you don't mind spending a little extra go for the AS.I agree wt. Brad AS steel is not hard to sharpen:)

Why mono steel?

wsfarrell
08-01-2013, 08:52 PM
I also have a blue #2 deba that has pretty fantastic edge retention and great edge retention as well.

Okay, but how's the edge retention? :biggrin:

keithsaltydog
08-01-2013, 09:16 PM
What I mean is unclad,no reason in particular,just my preferance,thin carbons for most production work.

ecchef
08-01-2013, 10:20 PM
i buy white, because it's cheap, gets sharp as hell and is incredibly easy to touch up, which will it will need often, very often

Says it all. I don't have any blue Japanese style knives. Blue gyuto, yes (Ao & #2), but I don't really see any advantage of one over the other.