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View Full Version : Thinning of whole blade



bieniek
05-27-2011, 06:47 PM
So,

Could i ask You guys to share what do you use when heavy thinning is due.

Few weeks ago i took my 6 year old Exxent for thinning, and one side took me 12 hours - without polishing
It is done now, but I know i will have that kind of battles also in the future.
Which of the DMT's are going to be better fot that kinda job? The so called Diamond whetstone or the Diasharp? I defintely will use it also for flattening.

Or is there anything better? [no power tools]

rockbox
05-27-2011, 06:53 PM
Knife makers use power tools to thin because its the best way. Choose the best tools for the job.

Thinning an entire blade on stones is like serving a buffet banquet with a teaspoon.

Lefty
05-27-2011, 07:03 PM
I agree with Rockbox!
I have another one. It's like fighting a house fire with a super soaker.
:D

Booink
05-27-2011, 10:16 PM
But what if a super soaker is all you have? :(

rockbox
05-27-2011, 10:43 PM
But what if a super soaker is all you have? :(


Then you call the fire department. There is no point in spending days working on something unless its just for a learning experience. How much is your time worth? The equipment is not that expensive.

watercrawl
05-27-2011, 10:57 PM
And you can literally kill a DMT plate doing this. I wore through an entire 220 grit Norton stone doing one major thinning project. It's NOT worth it....it can be fun though.

heirkb
05-27-2011, 11:45 PM
What do you guys use then? Grinders or belt sanders?

rockbox
05-27-2011, 11:47 PM
Belt grinders/sanders or disk sander/grinder. I've been using this for the last few years.

http://s.shld.net/is/image/Sears/00921513000-1

heirkb
05-27-2011, 11:58 PM
Is that a Delta belt sander? I've been looking for a belt sander for a few other reasons, so I'm curious.

rockbox
05-28-2011, 12:13 AM
Is that a Delta belt sander? I've been looking for a belt sander for a few other reasons, so I'm curious.


Its a craftsman I bought for 99 dollars. I think it sells for 129 dollars now. The main thing is to make sure can get a decent variety of belts for the size. That is the main reason I just bought a new 2x72 grinder.

bieniek
05-28-2011, 04:35 AM
OK. Thanks.
Seems to me like the dmt is then useless. Not going to spend 100 bucks to flatten stones. Now have piece of glass and paper, works well enough. Thanks watercrawl.

Belt sander, what grit you use ?

rockbox
05-28-2011, 08:11 AM
You want to use 35-60 grit ceramic belts for heavy metal removal. Then ~100 grit, 200, and 400 grit for cleaning up the mess. I like 3m trizact gator belts for everything other than the lowest grit.

bieniek
05-28-2011, 08:13 AM
how do you tackle the overheating building up?

rockbox
05-28-2011, 08:31 AM
A bucket of water. Most steels are tempered at over 150 degrees Celsius, so the knife has to get hot enough to burn you fingers and change colors before it ruins the temper. With a good ceramic belt, heating isn't much of an issue unless you stay on one spot for more for a while. You shouldn't stay on on section for a long period of time anyway, because you are more likely to get overgrind areas. Just be patient and go slow. With power tools, things move really fast. Practice a very cheap knife at first.

Before you start doing it, I would look at the video of people grinding knives on youtube. Even Hoss has a short one. You can get a feel of how long you stay in one area.

tk59
05-28-2011, 02:56 PM
A belt grinder would be the quickest way to do it, for sure. However, I've hand-thinned a number of blades and while it took a long time and it was pretty hard work, I feel my sharpenning rapidly improved as a result. Sharpening is all about muscle memory in the end. You do go through coarse stones relatively quickly but I did my first A-type with a 1k SS and it's still around. I've done a couple of major thinning jobs (along with the normal stuff) with a Beston and more than half of it is still around. Unless you're a pro and you have to do this all the time for your entire kitchen, I honestly don't think it's a big deal to do on stones as long as you don't wait until you have a meat-cleaver geometry to deal with. In that case, maybe you need to get a new knife.

SpikeC
05-28-2011, 03:21 PM
I am a little puzzled about the comments regarding the DMT XXC. I have one of those that I have been using for quite some time, for establishing bevels on wood working chisels, plane blades, flattening stones, and thinning knives, and while it is not as insanely aggressive as it was when new, it still hogs off metal at a prodigious rate. All of the DMTs are expected to loose their initial roughness after some use, butt in my experience they then settle into a nice long range usefulness. Keep them wet in use and clean them so that they don't clog and they keep going and going for me. It is advised to use fairly light pressure with them, though, and let the tool do the work.

rockbox
05-28-2011, 06:41 PM
A belt grinder would be the quickest way to do it, for sure. However, I've hand-thinned a number of blades and while it took a long time and it was pretty hard work, I feel my sharpenning rapidly improved as a result. Sharpening is all about muscle memory in the end. You do go through coarse stones relatively quickly but I did my first A-type with a 1k SS and it's still around. I've done a couple of major thinning jobs (along with the normal stuff) with a Beston and more than half of it is still around. Unless you're a pro and you have to do this all the time for your entire kitchen, I honestly don't think it's a big deal to do on stones as long as you don't wait until you have a meat-cleaver geometry to deal with. In that case, maybe you need to get a new knife.

I don't think he's talking about just thinning around the edge. I think he was talking about thinning the whole darn knife from spine to edge. Changing the complete geometry of a knife by hand would be an act of masochism.

tk59
05-28-2011, 06:59 PM
I don't think he's talking about just thinning around the edge. I think he was talking about thinning the whole darn knife from spine to edge. Changing the complete geometry of a knife by hand would be an act of masochism.

Actually, I got that. I've been called masochistic by more than one person (knifeknuts included), lol. That's why I cited the A-type. It lost a lot of weight and so did my 1k SS. I wouldn't want to do it every week but once every couple of months would be cool with me. I had to grind a sh!tload off a yanagiba last week after I used a belt grinder to grind the rough profile but that was relatively easy. Carbon is a breeze.

JohnnyChance
05-30-2011, 11:46 PM
Actually, I got that. I've been called masochistic by more than one person (knifeknuts included), lol. That's why I cited the A-type. It lost a lot of weight and so did my 1k SS. I wouldn't want to do it every week but once every couple of months would be cool with me. I had to grind a sh!tload off a yanagiba last week after I used a belt grinder to grind the rough profile but that was relatively easy. Carbon is a breeze.

I just rounded the spine and choil on my a-type and I thought it would wear out all my bits and paper before I was finished. I couldnt imagine thinning the entire thing on a stone. Youre a nut!

bieniek
05-31-2011, 01:24 AM
Definitely I got sad after opinion of DMT, but I have to think it through. Anyways, whats the difference between the two?

I will make some photos of how I did it, whats the finnish etc, only with stone also, just let me take it out of working place tomorrow for resharpening - its been two weeks :)

bieniek
06-02-2011, 04:24 AM
So I have photos.

It started with this dead body::doublebanghead:

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_2098.jpg

I must admit, it was very massacred. I own it since 2003, and then i knew nothing about sharpening.

I worked it out a little, and end result:

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/EXXENTGYUTO.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/exxenttip.jpg

But it came clear that to upgrade the feeling i have to work some more.
Took me a few hours but it was worth it. Swede feels like potato now:lol2:

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_2349.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_2346.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/carl00s/100_2350.jpg

The finish is how i wanted, you can see two lines on the sides roughly in the middle thats my "shinogi", i took more out from middle down, to keep some weight on it, as its scary light now anyway.
It doesnt looks so appealing on the photos but its OK. made with continously usind wetpapers from 320,400,800 to1200.

Vertigo
06-02-2011, 05:33 PM
I've been using my Bester (Beston?) 500 to thin my latest project. It's by no means quick, but just put on some music, grind away for a while, and when I get tired I clean up and go at it again another day. I contemplated using the DMT XXC but I'd honestly rather approach my desired thickness slowly and carefully than risk overshooting it. And like TK mentioned, the process has dramatically improved my sharpening (and my understanding of the knife, it's grind, and the steel as a whole).

tk59
06-03-2011, 12:53 PM
Nice work! that looks really good!

bieniek
06-03-2011, 03:10 PM
Cheers man, I appreciate it.
There were moments where I was crying but overally it was good experience. Just have to get better tool for the job, but i decided i will stick with my hands doing most!

Lefty
06-03-2011, 06:49 PM
Or just do what I did...consult your resident knife/handle makers and get a used bench sander ;)

tk59
06-05-2011, 04:06 PM
Did you consider doing something like this? This knife was damaged pretty badly by the sharpening fools at Aritsugu. I sharpened it this way to thin it out as I repaired it. Every time I sharpen, I sharpen the entire bevel so it stays thin.
714715

bieniek
06-06-2011, 01:44 AM
Yes, woul look cool, but this is cheap soft MoVa knife. If I start grating metalaway now, it may end with edge just crumbling.
I can see it happening now sometimes, unfortunately.
But its maybe worth trying ? :D

tk59
06-06-2011, 10:24 AM
If it's thin at this point, maybe you don't wanna do it but once it starts getting thick again you can start increasing the asymmetry and as you go along, your front bevel will increase in size.

JohnnyChance
06-06-2011, 12:56 PM
Did you consider doing something like this? This knife was damaged pretty badly by the sharpening fools at Aritsugu. I sharpened it this way to thin it out as I repaired it. Every time I sharpen, I sharpen the entire bevel so it stays thin.

Now you just need to get a decent handle for that guy!

tk59
06-06-2011, 03:00 PM
Now you just need to get a decent handle for that guy!

LOL, you got another one lying around?