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View Full Version : Wa-petty suggestions, or all around utility knife



brianh
08-01-2013, 06:56 PM
Been talking with Jon @ JKI but wanted some other opinions. Thanks!


LOCATION
US

KNIFE TYPE
Wa petty I think

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Japanese

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
150mm or so

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No, prefer carbon

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$200


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for?
slicing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, filleting fish, trimming meats, trimming silverskin

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
None but looking for smaller knife to accompany 210mm wa gyuto

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
No but mostly pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use?
Slicing, push cut

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?

Maybe kurouchi finish? Just like how it looks!


Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)
No real preferences

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?


Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
Good retention but I can sharpen and strop

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Epicurean. And walnut Boardsmith

Do you sharpen your own knives?
I'm learning and have Dave's stones and DVDs

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

I've been looking at the Kochi 150mm kurouchi and Gesshin Ginga. My gyuto is a Ginga, so I kinda wanted something different.

labor of love
08-01-2013, 07:03 PM
i like both pettys youre looking at. stainless clad itinomonn petty looks cool too though.

brianh
08-01-2013, 07:15 PM
Thanks! Jon said the kochi is thicker at the spine than the Gesshin. My other question is what benefit does the flat spot on the Kochi near the heel offer? Would it get in the way when trimming and breaking down fat and poultry?

tripleq
08-01-2013, 07:52 PM
Since you are looking to buy from Jon I'd like to throw this out there. Jon has a knife from Zakuri called a sabaki bocho. It is a boning knife. Double bevel. I have one in 150mm and 105mm. I know Jon carries the 150. Not sure about the 105. These knives have to be amongst the most versatile knives I've ever owned. The profile is somewhat generic in the sense that it could easily be used in the place of other knives; santoku, funayuki and tosagata to name a few. I use the sabaki for every kitchen task that is appropriate for its size. Utility, chopping, slicing, whatever. The fact that it is a boning knife also gives it the ability to do other tasks like taking apart a whole chicken. I use mine a lot for cutting into hard cheese. The extra little heft along the spine make it great for these types of things. Anyway...just a thought.

brianh
08-01-2013, 08:04 PM
Oooo, and only $140. But now I'm even more confused ;) I really like that the Zakuri has less belly near the tip, the edge seems flatter. How is its sharpness?

tripleq
08-01-2013, 08:13 PM
Speaking frankly Zakuris aren't super sharp out of the box. I can't say if Jon sharpens them before shipping. That being said they are blue steel and can take a very nice edge. Retention is very good. Because I use them as a multi-purpose tools I sharpen them for this purpose. Not as sharp as they can be but robust enough to avoid damage during heavier use. Even at this they are very sharp. From my experience Zakiri really knows how to work with blue steel.

brianh
08-01-2013, 08:20 PM
Thank you for the tip. Strongly considering the Zakuri.

chinacats
08-02-2013, 01:31 AM
I have a Zakuri (blue 1) and it takes a great edge. If you are worried about it, ask Jon to sharpen it first. As to the Kochi, the V2 kurouchi gyuto I had took a crazy edge and I really thought it was a great knife. In my experience, the blue 1 Zakuri can be a bit more likely to chip than the Kochi.

Cheers!

Matus
08-02-2013, 04:43 AM
I just want to say that I was on a very similar track recently (just more focused on boning part) and ordered (well, the order is about to be committed) the already mentioned Zakuri Sabaki Bocho from Jon :) I find the shape of the blade (wider and bit thicker than petty with handle and edge not being parallel and the tip sharp, but strong) very interesting.

bkdc
08-02-2013, 08:52 AM
If you're looking at the wider Zakuri, would a narrower 180mm wa-gyuto be within a reasonable size? As with many folks, my first criterion (when I didn't know better) for knives was the steel. Now it's the geometry.

brianh
08-02-2013, 10:00 AM
Really interested by the shape of the Zakuri and think I'll give that a try. Thanks for the suggestions!

tk59
08-02-2013, 12:24 PM
I'm a little late but I thought I'd contribute anyway. The Zakuri is a much more rustic, beastly feeling knife. The Kochis are sturdy but feel less beastly in my hands. They are nicer finished though and super thin where it counts. Either one will do nicely but I might lean toward the Kochi. I'd say the Kochi is tougher, not that either is particularly chippy. If you're not really gentle or skilled, the zakuri might be a better choice.

brianh
08-02-2013, 12:26 PM
What advantage does the flat spot near the heel do for the Kochi? Thanks!

tk59
08-02-2013, 12:48 PM
Flatter profiled areas allow for less or no rocking as a push-cut is made. As far as slicing is concerned, I don't notice an advantage or disadvantage to a flat area.

brianh
08-02-2013, 12:51 PM
Interesting, thank you. All things to consider!

tk59
08-02-2013, 12:54 PM
Sure thing. Good luck! For what it's worth, both knives are excellent.

Lefty
08-02-2013, 01:21 PM
Just to complicate things, more curve and a higher tip create more edge length, for slicing motions. The difference will be one or two millimeters on a small blade, so it's basically negligible. But, it's there. :)

brianh
08-02-2013, 01:25 PM
I'm a J knife newb so I'm still discovering what I like. Man this gets addicting real fast.

tk59
08-02-2013, 01:27 PM
@Lefty: That's true but I've never picked up a knife, slicer or otherwise and thought, "Gee, if it only had a little more curve, I could slice through this roast (or other object)."

tk59
08-02-2013, 01:29 PM
I'm a J knife newb so I'm still discovering what I like. Man this gets addicting real fast....And expensive. Once you get a couple of nice knives, it would be wise to log off and never come back before it's too late.

brianh
08-02-2013, 01:33 PM
Oh, it's already too late!

Lefty
08-02-2013, 01:35 PM
Tinh, you're right, but I just wanted to make it even scarier! :D

labor of love
08-02-2013, 02:18 PM
Fwiw I owned a Zakuri petty. I thought it was too reactive for a petty. Especially considering that I often used my petty for fruit and other reactive foods.

tk59
08-02-2013, 03:07 PM
Fwiw I owned a Zakuri petty. I thought it was too reactive for a petty. Especially considering that I often used my petty for fruit and other reactive foods.That's a good point, I pretty much use semi or stainless steel for fruit.

brianh
08-02-2013, 03:28 PM
Not doing much fruit slicing, and besides, this gives me a reason to buy a stainless petty down the line...

labor of love
08-02-2013, 03:30 PM
Not doing much fruit slicing, and besides, this gives me a reason to buy a stainless petty down the line...

other than the reactivity, zakuri is a fine choice. i just wanted to point that out. is kochi any more or less reactive than zakuri out of curiousity? anybody know?

tripleq
08-02-2013, 03:38 PM
other than the reactivity, zakuri is a fine choice. i just wanted to point that out. is kochi any more or less reactive than zakuri out of curiousity? anybody know?

I have both. I've never done a side by side test but for the most part it is six of one and half a dozen of the other. No difference that really jumps out.

Talim
08-03-2013, 02:35 AM
For a cheap stainless petty, take a look at the Tanaka ginsanko. It's a great knife for something under $40. I've cooked a whole meal with it.

WiscoNole
08-03-2013, 03:35 AM
Since you prefer carbon, check out the Masamoto KS 165mm petty in W2 from JCK. $197 w/ saya. That extra 15mm is really helpful at times, and it has a great profile.

Brad Gibson
08-03-2013, 05:32 AM
I would recommend a takeda petty. I use one daily and think it has little to no reactivity so that would never be an issue. It also has an intensely sharp edge and retains it for quite a while.

Timthebeaver
08-03-2013, 05:48 AM
Watanabe's pro petty has always interested me. Kurouchi stainless-clad blue #1 (I've never seen anything bad written about his blue steel) and has a profile more akin to a small gyuto than most 150mm petties.

http://www.watanabeblade.com/english/pro/petite.htm

brianh
08-03-2013, 11:24 AM
The takeda looks amazing but out of my price range. Reading about masamoto and watanabe some more, seems to be well-liked here, thanks for the suggestions!

ar11
08-04-2013, 12:29 AM
Here's a couple pettys I acquired recently Takeda Damascus $50 and Sakai Yusuke $125. Yusuke much more shortin profile, makes it easy for in hand tasks.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-csmH7Pi60-s/Uf3YLe7kCoI/AAAAAAAAFFo/kM2flPtLlkY/w800-h532-no/DSC03986.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-KIFOdN52prU/Uf3YMCurM7I/AAAAAAAAFFw/FUkMvE6SlkU/w479-h720-no/DSC03987.jpg

labor of love
08-04-2013, 01:10 AM
tanaka, not takeda. right? love everthing about that yusuke. im sure its awesome.